I am SO SICK of people that want to take gear when they have not a clue about diet!!

[Nate_Dog]

Well if you are reading this then perhaps you are too.

Young guys that want to take to juice and GET HUGE.

But hey fail to look at their diet. They do not know how many calories they are eating. They do not know the ratio of P:C:Fats. They think a bit af gear makes you massive over night, when you have only been training 1 year. AND I AM SICK OF IT. Look at BigKev the guy has been training over a decade!!! Mmmm funny that!

They push higher dosages getting average result if maintainable at all. And think that god deemed them with bad genetics.

All of this gives JUICE A VERY BAD NAME. With the general public, with fucks up the laws around posession. And the situation get worse and worse.

If you are a little fucker... then you are doing something wrong... Perhaps overtraining, and under eating. But figure it out, get good natural gains and then juice later when you have reached your genetic limit.

I am going stop contributing to threads on "Hows my cycle" and pay more attention to "Hows my diet". And I think it is the job of Vets etc to direct people in the direction of diet/training.

BB is a lifestyle, a commitment. IT is not just about juice. I think it is sad the way things are progressing. No longer will I bother with half hearted lamers that have shit all gains that want to juice, I wont try any longer to emphasize the aspect of nutrition.

MY 2c.

[Nate_Dog]

Actually... while I am commenting on this.

People that take massive ammounts of gear... and have shit all to show for it??? What is up with that.

I have seen people with these massive ass cycles, and my natural mates KILL THEM. It is very FUCKING SAD!

All this juice,... and what to show for it?

Just my bitch for the day.

[Ajax]

Amen to that ND!

Gear is not a way to get around bad training/knowledge/habits; it's a way to accelerate the results of good training--and iot requires lots of knowedge and good habits to do succesfully.

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by Ajax
Amen to that ND!

Gear is not a way to get around bad training/knowledge/habits; it's a way to accelerate the results of good training--and iot requires lots of knowedge and good habits to do succesfully.

EXACTLY!

Eg.. I know a young guy, he is 18 that is studying the same course as me. We often end up in the gym together. He has over developed Anterior Delts combined with sloppy back muscle/posture. All this = his shoulders roll forward and it looks like he has a sunken in chest. On top of this his legs are shit (he never trains them) his calfs are non-existent.

So my little friend (i like the guy, he is a nice fellow), askes me about juice. And tells me all the time that he wants to get on it.

My reply is when you are symetrical and busting your ass, esp in nutrition, and when his growth plates closed, and he platead. SURE.. HELL YEAH! But before? NO F===ing WAY! It woul djust exagerate his out of perportion body.

SAd HEY! I am working on my little friend g-ing him up for mad squat sessions. And always mentioning his calfs(Mine lag to). And I tell him find you weakest bodypart/s and FOCUS on whipping those mofos into shape.

To many people are proud of there best body part, but make excuses for their weakest.

You want time to iron out you training this takes years, all these newbies need to do there time and figure out Ronnie was not built over night.

[Ajax]

I have almost the opposite problem: I see a weak spot and I put all my energy into that. My delts suffer in size due to a long-term injury that I just got over; I work them like mad now 'cuz I am unhappy with them. My bi's/tri's grow like weeds so sometimes I get lazy about working them hard! Still trying to discipline myself to be 100% everywhere all the time!

[Nate_Dog]

Look at this thread..... empty.. just me and Ajax.. Shows you what a sorry state that bobybuilding is in.

Nate

[jeffylyte]

i do have to make a comment that not all people are genetically gifted to grow like weeds. me I graduated HS at a little over 140 lbs at 6'2" Now I am 185 lbs at 10%. This took me quite some time to do (>5 years). Now this is using a very strict diet regime controlling everything. I also just have skinny legs. I've built them (to where I now have stretch marks on my ass), but I just have high calves. Now Ive never used juice, cause I want to see where i can get without it using the latest in scientific training principles. Unfortunately, if I slack at anything (not enough calories, protein, training) I shrink. Its not making excuses. It just is. Its like I can say that most people here cant run a forty in 4.5s, whereas I can (or maybe could, it has been a while). Does it mean you dont train hard enough? No, it just is. So before anybody criticises me (or anybody) for being small due to diet or training, you might ask me what it is first. there was a point where not many could hang with my leg workouts and I still have small legs (I actually fainted once from it).

other than that I agree with everybody!

[arthurb999]

Agreed!

This is completely made up but it gets the point accross. Diet is like 70% of the equation.

Your body = 0.7(diet) + 0.15(training) + 0.15(rest)

Add the juice in there and it's like...

Your body = [0.7(diet) + 0.15(training) + 0.15(rest)]^2

[Dizzy]

Originally posted by Nate_Dog
Look at this thread..... empty.. just me and Ajax.. Shows you what a sorry state that bobybuilding is in.

Nate

EAT (well)...
TRAIN (hard)....
REST (just as hard).
Throw steroids in the mix and make bigger faster gains. Nuff said.

LOL....My sport is not in a sorry state. These little guys your referring to...are just as capable of learning as you were when you first started. And passing up these so called "monsters" way up. Take my word for it.

[Shredz]

There however is one good thing about guys like that....You let them try the gear first...if they start to get big..then you know it is good stuff!!!!!

Use those guys as the ginny pigs. Because when you see someone that trains hard, sleeps right, and has a killer diet it is sometimes hard to tell if it is actually the gear that is doing the job. With the guys you are talking about..if they take the gear and party all night with their buddies and eat at pizza hut, taco bell and all that other junk and they start to grow..then you know it is good gear.

if they only know the progress they could make him they were able to do it all properly.

cheers

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by Dizzy

LOL....My sport is not in a sorry state. These little guys your referring to...are just as capable of learning as you were when you first started. And passing up these so called "monsters" way up. Take my word for it.

The public's perception of the sport is in a sorry state. Yes... when I started I listened to people. They wont become "Monsters" unless they eat like em.

It is like they train for a day then suddenly they want to juice! I am just trying to jush the diet side of things as it is well under empasized.

[gymnut4u]

BUMP , BUMP , BUMP great thread !!!!!!!!!

[Kaz]

I have a teensy comment to make here.

GREAT POST!!

I agree 100% - As usual Nate_Dog and Ajax and co are on the button!

I have a high BF% but its not due to not understanding my diet its due to not following it as strictly as I could!! (I know Im bad!)

In particular I agree with the dosing comments. Too many people are under the impression that more is better and this is simply not the case. If I take 200-250mg of test per week I keep most of my gains. More than that and I lose it all back down to the amount that I would have kept from 200mg!

I am sure that the body can only cope with a specific amount in any one go and beyond that it sheds it unless you keep juicing. We really should educate people along these lines!

Thats my rant for the morning!

[Nate_Dog]

Yep.... I have one thread in particular that I will add a link to. This young guy from this thread asked me via PM, about cycle dose(he singled me out as I 2 am an aussie).

I told him to take reasonable dosages time after time... then he still posts this thread -->

http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...980#post217980

So this mixed with the guy that i study with, and I CRACKED... and hence I have come down quite hard... and will continue to do so. If they listen they will grow and thank me.

[androplex]

Yep, I met this trainer at the gym. He used to do a lot of gear for shows and stuff. He told me his liver is so bad now he can hardly take protien powder. Good points here on this thread. Its not a one star in my book. I voted 5.

[Dr. Derek]

I agree, when I first started messing around with this shit 13 years ago, I did alot, or as much research as possible, I have always been like that though. I'm not afraid to ask questions. It seems like now a days young people, who have more access to info than ever, just jump on hoping nothing unhealthy will happen, well they will hopefully learn without screwing up thier health forever. Anyway great thread Nate. Keep it up.

[freakout]

My great example

I am not afraid of being criticised as everyone learns through good criticisms!

I have been gymming for two years.

I began never thinking of taking juices...

For 8 mths, I did not grew a lot but maintain a lean body as I gym quite regularly. At that time I do not know anything about dieting at all... even my knowledge on training was limited..

Met a trainer...learn a lot about various exercises but my trainer was fat all year round and thus he never taught me the main point on dieting and resting.. I trained four times per week three hours per session and diet without any plans at all..

Mess up my growth plan and was introduced to juicing... I grew but only in size but not in beauty and vascularity, ie. my muscles were not "alive and kicking".

Mess up my personal life too...quarrelled with my colleagues and my best friends...

I have decided to stop juicing since half a year ago. I may start it again but I do not want to start without researching. I have decided I might as well take this break to understand the true meaning and effect of a good diet and improve my exercise routine.

Found out a lot more information that I did not know when I started my juicing and it really helps me see changes in my body that I have never seen before. Shorten my exercise routine to 1.5 hours but increase my intensity. Never felt better and I found out that the stress I used to have working out in the past was gone.

Sorry for the long posting. I just do not want to believe that only through juicing I could get the body that I want. There are plenty other ways just that it requires patience and courage to keep on trying. Stay strong!!

[HitMan69]

I don't know what is worse, Listening to Nate Dog, Or my wife!

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by HitMan69
I don't know what is worse, Listening to Nate Dog, Or my wife!

Yeah hahahaha. If only your wife made as much sence as me. Now back to the topic.

When I first cycled I too found as much info as I could... hell I was the one educating my mates that I brought the gear from.??? What is up with that? But back then Arimadex was not available, things went pear shaped.... and to cut a long story short, I was stupid.

I wish I had people around (like myself )willing to help with my diet. I needed to learn a few things about training volume and recovery. I will help anyone to work with their diet,.. and if need be, when the day comes,.. help them plan their cycle. BUT ONLY if they have a good solid foundation.

See I have collected myself a good little stash of gear,.. as I am ready to cycle again. But I am still figuring out things about my training, I mean hell do you ever stop? I want to be ready to maximise my growth when the day comes.

ANYWAY ON A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TOPIC. Where I study I have recently met a 19 yo guy... we met whilst in the same class, learning olympic lifting. Today we hooked up to train, he had asked me about juice. I said hey wait... read read read... and read,.. wait... read.. then read some more. Now today we were commenting about how we just missed the naturals... and how we should have went and watched it. I said..... Hey why dont you compete in the naturals?

So he is sort of into it. I think he just needs someone to give him the excuse to do it and he is there. So it should be interesting... I think he could clean up in his division and maybe win nationally. Will keep you all posted....

[Little Jonah]

great post man your a 110% right about that

[Nate_Dog]

Well hell it is good to see such a postive response... I am very pleased.

NOW I EXPECT TO SEE MORE OF YOU GUYS IN THE DIET THREAD!!! lol.

[berry]

im with u 100% ,ive been trying to get that messege to every one for years,the thing is these young guys take other drugs anyway,in my town 90% of them are on extas or other shit,it pisses me of ,back to the topic before some of the stacks are put on the boards please put a pic and years of training ,because these young guys only c the stack and think its the key,peace

[Kärnfysikern]

Excelent thread, five stars for sure. Diet is everything and a little more.

[Kärnfysikern]

but I have to confess that it is so easy for me to gain weight and keep muscle mass while dieting that its almost filthy , but then my pain is that I need to be freaking super strict with my diet to lose weight.

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by berry
im with u 100% ,ive been trying to get that messege to every one for years,the thing is these young guys take other drugs anyway,in my town 90% of them are on extas or other shit,it pisses me of ,back to the topic before some of the stacks are put on the boards please put a pic and years of training ,because these young guys only c the stack and think its the key,peace

Hell Berry I couldn't agree more. You get MAX RESPECT from me. I have seen your posts pics before.. (even showed them to my girlfriend) you have built a superior physique. You should post more buddy, I am interested in your comments... diet and training.