Can you really beat anyone up?

[spencer]

wat im sayin is theres no such thing as a clean one on one fight now days, it always involves weopons so imo it dont mean shit in the street anymore, i had 8 amature fights wen 15 14 and 13 and kick **** out of most people in one on ones wen it comes to it wen out, but most times is does get ugly i.e glasses, bottles, cs gas. that sort of shit

[thegodfather]

Fighting is a new ball game now days. While in the passed two guys used to fight it out and that was that. Today it is a much different society regarding self defense. If you assault someone today (which is what it is, lets not fool ourselves, "fighting" someone is assaulting someone from a legal standpoint), they have the right to defend themselves using an appropriate means. To understand what I mean by an appropriate means, you would need to have read the self-defense laws in your area, but most often it means you match force with force in order to remove yourself safely from the situation. For instance, the person in the bar you think you're going to assault for stepping on your shoe, mouthing off, or spilling a drink on you, could very well have a CCW permit. If you are much larger then he is, and he feels his life is in imminent danger and he obviously has no chance of defending himself without a significant amount of bodily harm or even death, by every standard of the law he does have the right to remove his weapon and shoot you.

My point in all this, no one should be going into a street fight and expecting anything resembling a "fair fight." Because bottomline, if this is a street fight scenario, and you are the agressor, you are in the wrong, violating the law, and the one "assaulting" another individual. By the standards of the law, the person your assaulting can use a reasonable means to defend himself, i.e.-a weapon of any sort, or a firearm if he is licensed to posess one. I'd advise anyone who considers themself Billy Badass to reconsider the next time your out at a club and feel like flexing your beer muscles.

[stayinstacked]

Size has alot to do with a fight. Hence the reason why boxing and martial artists are usually put up against somebody in their weight class. Lets face it, 90% of street fights end up on the ground, the bigger guy has a weight advantage here, and possibly a strength advantage if he's in shape. Furthermore, not all big guys are slow, contrary to what most think. But one thing is almost always for sure, when they hit they hit hard. Also, you can still stay flexible when your bigger too, you just have to work at it. You'd be so surprised at how flexible many bodybuilders are. IMO size has a shitload of advantage in a fight. In almost any sport, the big guys rule the field.

[SVTMuscle*]

I wanna get into MMA, I already have my black belt in Kenpo, but I wanna get into some other stuff so I can kick anyones ass. that'd be sweet to never have to worry about it haha

I'm not tough at all, but I'm not scared of anyone

[Logan13]

Fighting is an equation with alot of variables. Take in size,experiance,training, martial arts studied, enviroment, weapons and how many people against you or vice versa. He is an idiot to say he is not afraid of anyone in a fight you should have what my coach says is "intelligent fear" espicially in a street fight which has a ton of variables. Sounds to me like he is just trying to sound tough

well put mn, saved me lots of typing.

[bigbouncinballs]

why do y'all fight so much? someone says somethin to me at the bar, steps on my foot, spills a drink on me, i let it roll off the shoulder. why y'all gotta be so violent? the ONLY two things i'll fight for: my wife and my family.

PERIOD

[keith hackney]

i think im gonna challenge chuck liddell for his ufc belt. all i have to do is get "mad enough" right before the fight and i will come out on top. haha

[BOUNCER]

i think a grapler would benefit better in a street fight then a boxer.

No he wouldn't. A boxer should be able to take the average bloke on the street with his hands P.D.Q.

A grappler would go to the ground and hope to P&D his victim, but at that range hes open to attack from bites, knives, his victimes friends etc. Fighting on the ground is a very, very dangerous place to want to go.

I'm a kickboxer and Judo player and dabble in Vale Tudo and I'd rather take someone apart standing, and make good my escape if that was an option.

[keith hackney]

i really do hate the "striker" versus "grappler" comparison. maybe it was cool in 1993 but not anymore. its not like people are robots and just because you train primarily in grappling, you cant strike and vice versa. more has to be considered than a vague description of ur training background when talking about "who would win a street fight?" things like weight, overall athletic ability, and fighting spirit must all be factored in.

[Hunter]

i really do hate the "striker" versus "grappler" comparison. maybe it was cool in 1993 but not anymore. its not like people are robots and just because you train primarily in grappling, you cant strike and vice versa. more has to be considered than a vague description of ur training background when talking about "who would win a street fight?" things like weight, overall athletic ability, and fighting spirit must all be factored in.

I get what your saying fore sure but in a street fight a striker is far better off then a grappling and I am a far better grappler then a striker. The main reason is that when you take it to the ground you can get jumped by his friends. Also you are more prone to getting bitten, eyes gauged, etc. Now you can always pop up into a knee on belly ride if your experianced enough but overall your much better keeping it on your feet for safety reasons but in MMA I completely agree the striker vs grappler is played out its an eb and flow as predominant strikers learn ways to avoid the ground grapplers come up with ways to put them on the ground and keep them there its all an eb and flow in MMA

[Billy_Bathgate]

having been over a year in bjj i used to say ground is key

but after a half a year of MT...**** that im staying on my feet if i can

no point in having some dudes buddy come kick me in the back of my head while im on the ground

[Timm1704]

I'd advise anyone who considers themself Billy Badass to reconsider the next time your out at a club and feel like flexing your beer muscles.

great advice mate, and the beer muscles? lol nice way of putting it

[spencer]

Steroid Abuse
John also commented on the recent steroid allegations against former World Champion Fernando Vargas. He stated that it is difficult to point fingers at this time. “At this point in time you just don’t know. Someone could have given him one dose in a protein shake that would show up in his system for 6 months.” He went on to say that the situation is difficult to comment on without knowing all the facts.

I then asked John why a boxer would take steroids. He stated that of all the supplements available, steroids would be the last thing he would supply to a boxer. Steroids actually detract from the boxer’s ability to fight efficiently for 12 rounds. Steroids will provide a boost for the first 3 or 4 rounds before negatively affecting the fighter’s performance. Steroids are great for the short-term, explosive athlete such as the sprinter Ben Johnson, who tested positive for steroids after his record-breaking 100-meter sprint in the 1988 Olympics. Johnson’s system contained the anabolic steroid stanozolol, the same substance found in Fernando Vargas.

What is the benefit of steroid use?

Steroids cut down on the recovery time necessary between workouts. You can train harder and expect greater muscle gains because of your increased intensity. In boxing however, cellular growth is not the primary objective. Boxers must increase strength while staying within the confines of their weight class. The boxer must train to increase ligament and tendon strength while initiating a response from a maximum number of motor units. The boxer can thus gain speed, power and explosiveness.

John continued to say that steroids would make a fighter more susceptible to knockout. Steroids cause an increase in blood flow and blood pressure, while reducing the body’s ability to clot blood. This equates to a fighter that is less able to go the distance and more vulnerable to knockout. John added that a problem with many trainers is their failure to understand the true science of conditioning. Each athlete is unique, thus requires a unique conditioning and nutritional program. Many trainers wish to help their athletes, but their actions often come back to hurt them. This may have been the case with someone from Fernando’s camp.

[Tren Bull]

Ok.

Another post about people who are so tough, noone can beat them up.

I'll give credit to any respectable martial artist, boxer, or anyone who trains in any fighting area...

However - I had a guy tell me once "None of that shit scares me, muscles, tattoos, I don't give a shit what they look like or who they are. I could beat anyone up if I was mad enough." (Not to mention this guy was about 225lbs, 25% BF, 5'11".)

What do you guys think? Is this true for the most part? No matter how big your opponent may be, you could still beat them if it was backed by good reason? Or even just enough adrenaline?

Hmm... I think that the comment "no matter how big" is wrong. For example; I think Ronnie could put up a good fight.

Who knows.

LAG

i think that to an extent it is true that what really determines who will win a fight is being focussed enough to finish the fight fast enough. you cant possibly to expect to knock out a guy by landing one or two punches on the guy's face. most people are tough enough to take a few shots to the face but not be phased much by it. also, being much much stronger than someone else will also definately aid in beating on the fool relentlessly. any small guy that thinks he could overpower a larger body builder type guy is living in a fu_king dream.

[Royal_Marine_taz]

i think that to an extent it is true that what really determines who will win a fight is being focussed enough to finish the fight fast enough. you cant possibly to expect to knock out a guy by landing one or two punches on the guy's face. most people are tough enough to take a few shots to the face but not be phased much by it. also, being much much stronger than someone else will also definately aid in beating on the fool relentlessly. any small guy that thinks he could overpower a larger body builder type guy is living in a fu_king dream.

a smaller fighter would not need to over power a body builder his accurate strikes and speed would do the talkin. fighters are aware over others people strenghts and would utilize this in beating a body builder. how many body builders would you put up against bruce lee?

[Teabagger]

Size and apparent muscles do not count for alot. I have been in my share of good ole street fights and some of the worst ass kickings I have had have come from smaller, quicker, leaner guys. Strength is more important than muscle size..functional strength v. static strength. BB does not train you how to throw a punch, block, roll, or take a punch. Training will trump size nearly everytime.

[taiboxa]

having been over a year in bjj i used to say ground is key

but after a half a year of MT...**** that im staying on my feet if i can

no point in having some dudes buddy come kick me in the back of my head while im on the ground

aww i see you have found love for the "Leg Kick"..
well u better start using a rolling pin on your shin to toughen that shit up

[taiboxa]

and for the record NEVER EVER goto ground if you can help it in a street fight.
if u lock up make sure its standing.. kuz never know when someone might be like OMG gotta help him KICK ><

[Billy_Bathgate]

aww i see you have found love for the "Leg Kick"..
well u better start using a rolling pin on your shin to toughen that shit up

im planting bannana trees in my yard instead

[Billy_Bathgate]

i think that to an extent it is true that what really determines who will win a fight is being focussed enough to finish the fight fast enough. you cant possibly to expect to knock out a guy by landing one or two punches on the guy's face. most people are tough enough to take a few shots to the face but not be phased much by it. also, being much much stronger than someone else will also definately aid in beating on the fool relentlessly. any small guy that thinks he could overpower a larger body builder type guy is living in a fu_king dream.

lmao are you serious? ive seen may knocked out with 1 punch, you just have to either get lucky or know what you are doing

id put the bet on a smaller guy that trains vs a bodybuilder any day of the week..being bigger has nothing to do with it

i guess youve never heard of like the gracies maybe? or like bruce lee? lol hell even john claud van damn could beat up most typical bodybuilders

[biglouie250]

i have a hard head, got pummeled by 4 guys outside a bar and they couldnt put me on the ground, must have taken 15 shots to head pretty flush from various angles including the first one from behind, oh and stabbed in the lower lip with a key.....i was pretty lucky the bouncers came out. does that count for anything? lol

[USfighterFC]

Bodybuilders can't move, you take a guy like Ronnie coleman, sure he is strong as all hell but he'd get his ass handed to him against a good AMATEUR. Just because he looks great on stage and super huge and shredded doesnt mean he can throw a punch harder than someone who trains to fight.

[spencer]

agreed

[USfighterFC]

i think im gonna challenge chuck liddell for his ufc belt. all i have to do is get "mad enough" right before the fight and i will come out on top. haha

That is pretty much the simplist and easiest way to counter the whole first post. Well said.

[USfighterFC]

Here is the best example I can give you....

Bob Sapp versus Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. Sapp is a mountain of a man at around 375 pounds and pretty friggin lean. 375 pounds with ABS in fact. Now Nogueira is 230 pounds and a very lanky 230 pounds with not much muscle mass at all. He's tall at 6'4" so he's not muscular looking or really that intimidating at all. Sapp is semi-skilled at martial arts but its better than nothing. Here's a highlight of the fight.

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPP...rch=bob%20sapp

[biglouie250]

the beast was pretty decent at k-1 kickboxing, beat some top guys that were annoyed that he had no real skill. In MMA i feel he is way out of his league.

[taiboxa]

gotta admit though nog is a resilliant mother f'r
and for groundwork.. its all skill.. size is like.. w/e

i just wish i had sapps str/size w/ my skill i would rob banks and stuff!!

[USfighterFC]

Here is a striker against the same guy Bob Sapp. Of course the guy he's fighting is world reknowned but still Sapp is a bigger, stronger guy that the guy he is fighting (Cro-cop). He outweights him by over 120-130 pounds.

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=W_bn...rch=bob%20sapp

[taiboxa]

i like crocop

[USfighterFC]

the beast was pretty decent at k-1 kickboxing, beat some top guys that were annoyed that he had no real skill. In MMA i feel he is way out of his league.

Sapp is a very dirty fighter, who hardly has a regard for rules. Not really his fault he's never done this before. But he's got the same game plan, chase you down and pummel you into the ground legal strikes or not. He's gotten a little better with time but it was pretty horrendous for a while.

[taiboxa]

i have great sympathy for sapp he try SO hard

[Grappler13]

Steroids thin your blood around the chin?? Your friend is way off. Being knocked out doesnt even have anything to do with blood. Taking a a straight punch square INTO the chin pushes the jaw back cutting off a nerve from the brain to your body for a split second. This renders you unconscious immediately. Taking a punch across the chin pushes your chin and in essence pulls the rest of your head leaving the brain to hit the inside of your skull. As a defense mechanism the brain shuts the body down.(From what I understand, I'm no scientist). But both have nothing to do with blood.

When you sink it, and you opponent passes out before he can tap, you have not strangled him per se but rather caused the brain to signal a "temporarty turn off" until the blood starts to come back up the carotids. The chin shot, in the same way, rattles the brain inside the skull and causes the brain to "turn off." The shot to the chin in boxing can be a killer as has occurred throughout the years in sanctioned boxing but death froma rear naked choke would take several minutes.

[MASTER]

Here is a striker against the same guy Bob Sapp. Of course the guy he's fighting is world reknowned but still Sapp is a bigger, stronger guy that the guy he is fighting (Cro-cop). He outweights him by over 120-130 pounds.

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=W_bn...rch=bob%20sapp

I know what your saying about sapp for sure, but he has beaten some damn good fighters as well like hoost, just with pure punch power. A street fight is a whole different situation as well, no way noguiera is gona get an armbar on sapp on the street, sapp can utilise his massive strength and size advantages on the street, which he cant in k-1 and pride because of the rules. Also in those highlights, sapp avoided quite a few locks earlier on purely because of his superior limb strength. However gotta agree a non trained big guy (sapp is clearly trained far more than the average big guy) wud get owned by a trained weakling any day of the week.

[USfighterFC]

When you sink it, and you opponent passes out before he can tap, you have not strangled him per se but rather caused the brain to signal a "temporarty turn off" until the blood starts to come back up the carotids. The chin shot, in the same way, rattles the brain inside the skull and causes the brain to "turn off." The shot to the chin in boxing can be a killer as has occurred throughout the years in sanctioned boxing but death froma rear naked choke would take several minutes.

Thats just basically strangling someone lol

[USfighterFC]

I know what your saying about sapp for sure, but he has beaten some damn good fighters as well like hoost, just with pure punch power. A street fight is a whole different situation as well, no way noguiera is gona get an armbar on sapp on the street, sapp can utilise his massive strength and size advantages on the street, which he cant in k-1 and pride because of the rules. Also in those highlights, sapp avoided quite a few locks earlier on purely because of his superior limb strength. However gotta agree a non trained big guy (sapp is clearly trained far more than the average big guy) wud get owned by a trained weakling any day of the week.

Sapp beat Hoost very unfairly the first time around (admittedly I never saw the second fight....i think) He could've and should've been disqualified from that bout just like his fight with Cyril Abidi. As much as i dont like Abidi he got totally screwed. But what do you mean Nogueira can't beat Sapp "on the street" Do you mean in terms of Sapp taking a barstool to his head or gouging out his eyes? I agree with you on the point that Sapps size and strength helped him out in that fight. As you said before he was able to avoid some subs like the keylock you mentioned as well as some kimuras and triangle chokes. But ultimately he still lost.

[Logan13]

No he wouldn't. A boxer should be able to take the average bloke on the street with his hands P.D.Q.

A grappler would go to the ground and hope to P&D his victim, but at that range hes open to attack from bites, knives, his victimes friends etc. Fighting on the ground is a very, very dangerous place to want to go.

I'm a kickboxer and Judo player and dabble in Vale Tudo and I'd rather take someone apart standing, and make good my escape if that was an option.

Perhaps, if it is a gang-style fight. But one-on-one, I love it when a gold glover or a guy with a black belt in karate steps up. Get them on the ground and they have no ****ing idea what to do. Regardless, most skilled fighters today cannot be stereotyped as only a "striker" or a "grappler", it takes both to beat some ass. Chuck Liddell would not be the fighter that he is today would it not be for his Div. 1 wrestling background and his striking ability. If he couldn't stop the take-down or hold his own on the ground, he would not be champ.

[MASTER]

Sapp beat Hoost very unfairly the first time around (admittedly I never saw the second fight....i think) He could've and should've been disqualified from that bout just like his fight with Cyril Abidi. As much as i dont like Abidi he got totally screwed. But what do you mean Nogueira can't beat Sapp "on the street" Do you mean in terms of Sapp taking a barstool to his head or gouging out his eyes? I agree with you on the point that Sapps size and strength helped him out in that fight. As you said before he was able to avoid some subs like the keylock you mentioned as well as some kimuras and triangle chokes. But ultimately he still lost.

How many times in that fight did sapp just use his superior size and strength to wrap himself around noguiera and smash him into the floor, on a concrete floor, u arent gona take many of them without having a serious injury. Lets not forget the small issue of a 350lb solid man punching barefisted either!

[Hunter]

Perhaps, if it is a gang-style fight. But one-on-one, I love it when a gold glover or a guy with a black belt in karate steps up. Get them on the ground and they have no ****ing idea what to do. Regardless, most skilled fighters today cannot be stereotyped as only a "striker" or a "grappler", it takes both to beat some ass. Chuck Liddell would not be the fighter that he is today would it not be for his Div. 1 wrestling background and his striking ability. If he couldn't stop the take-down or hold his own on the ground, he would not be champ.

Very true people dont realize chuck was I believe a 2 time all american at cal poly. He has perhaps the best sprawl in all of MMA. Your right everybody cross trains but still has there bread and butter. I hate how people argue now that "strikers" have the advantage I guess people forget about Shoalin who is 95% ground. I said it earlier in this thread MMA is an eb and flow as strikers figure out ways to avoid the ground grapplers figure out different ways to put them there and keep them there. All around in a 1 on 1 street fight the trained fighter will almost always win wether he is a predominant striker or grappler

[2bshredded]

USFighter,
Hey Brother thanks for putting up that link, I really enjoyed that....makes want to go outand kick somebody's arse!
In fact, I liked this whole thread especially page 2.

[spencer]

no ones commented on that post about k.o'ing roid users.

thats wat we were arguing over in the first place