Hey Johan, can you explain this for me?

[MotoXracer]

I took some physics in college and know about the waves and particles part but the last part of this video is amazing. How does the electron know it's being observed?

Here's the video, it's a cartoon but the concepts are real(as far as I know).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+bleep&pl=true

[stunner5000pt]

how would you observer an electron? You cant just LOOK at it! You have to use a photon! By using a photon, you alter the trajcetory of the electron and the electron is no longer has the same momentum that it did if it had gone through th slits unaffected. Hence you have altered the wave of the electron, and the wave cannot interfere with itself anymore.

[needmorestrength]

awwwww great, more nerds
lol

[Psychotron]

Saw this a while ago, the answer is no one knows.

[stunner5000pt]

Saw this a while ago, the answer is no one knows.

i answered it ! HELOOO!!!

[stunner5000pt]

and rmember that an electron can also be viwed as a porbability wave. So by 'interefering' with the electron by shooting it with a photn, you just threw the probability all outta whack

[MotoXracer]

OK, don't mock me for this(i'm trying to remeber some physics) but isn't an electron magnectically charged(protons, neutrons and electrons), so couldn't you observe it's magnetic field as it passed instead of shooting photons at it? Isn't flux the strength in a magnectic field? So if we know what the magnetic flux is before the electron passes, we would know if the electron passes if the magnectic flux changed?

[stunner5000pt]

OK, don't mock me for this(i'm trying to remeber some physics) but isn't an electron magnectically charged(protons, neutrons and electrons), so couldn't you observe it's magnetic field as it passed instead of shooting photons at it? Isn't flux the strength in a magnectic field? So if we know what the magnetic flux is before the electron passes, we would know if the electron passes if the magnectic flux changed?

as you knwo from Heisenberg's uncertainty principle we cannot measure the momentum and postiion perfectly

as a result, doing something measuring the flux would give us a reasonably large error value for the position and the momentum. In order for the double slit pattern to occur, the slits have to be very close to each other. But our error value for position will genrally give us a 'range' that is somewhere in the area of th slits.

long story short - the possible range that we get for the postion of the electron will encompass the slits thereby not giving us a suitable postion.

Also the conclusion and explanation of the elctron behaving liek a wave comes out of quantum mechanics which is beyond my scope...
If Johan knew how to explain this to you, it would be hard for you to understand since you lack the prerequisites to grasp the concept. It's mostly mathematical in the end anyway...

[Tren Bull]

how would you observer an electron? You cant just LOOK at it! You have to use a photon! By using a photon, you alter the trajcetory of the electron and the electron is no longer has the same momentum that it did if it had gone through th slits unaffected. Hence you have altered the wave of the electron, and the wave cannot interfere with itself anymore.

actually you cant see electrons at all. the way we see things is our eyes pick up visable light which has a wavelength of 400-650 nm (i think, maybe give or take a little)

but when looking at something, it needs to be bigger than the wavelength of what we are using to see it. thats why electron microscopes are capable of seeing very very small objects, which conventional microscopes cant see (the electron has a very small wavelength).

an electron isnt a particle anyway, its wave characteristics dominate over its particle characteristics. theres also an unavoidable uncertainty to where the electron really is too.

[Tren Bull]

How does the electron know it's being observed?

i dont think i know exactly why, but im guessing that its conservation of momentum, being as you have to bounce a wave of somesort off of the electron to see it

[Tren Bull]

and rmember that an electron can also be viwed as a porbability wave. So by 'interefering' with the electron by shooting it with a photn, you just threw the probability all outta whack

exactly, its a probability of where it might be, but we have no way of knowing exactly where it is.

thats the hysenberg uncertainty principle

[Tren Bull]

OK, don't mock me for this(i'm trying to remeber some physics) but isn't an electron magnectically charged(protons, neutrons and electrons), so couldn't you observe it's magnetic field as it passed instead of shooting photons at it? Isn't flux the strength in a magnectic field? So if we know what the magnetic flux is before the electron passes, we would know if the electron passes if the magnectic flux changed?

yes, but by measuring the magnetic field, youd have to use a coil of wire or something, and moving an electric charge through a circular loop of wire would create a secondary magnetic field cause of the current youd produce in it. this would interfere with the path of the electron too

[C_Bino]

Cool video. Havent seen Johan for a while actually, I wonder where he is...

[Tren Bull]

Cool video. Havent seen Johan for a while actually, I wonder where he is...

hes probably killing ants in his kitchen or something. thats a never ending problem

[Tren Bull]

btw, my comp restarted before i could see this whole video. i swear bros, this damn thing keeps pulling this crap. makes me want to destroy it

[stunner5000pt]

actually you cant see electrons at all. the way we see things is our eyes pick up visable light which has a wavelength of 400-650 nm (i think, maybe give or take a little)

but when looking at something, it needs to be bigger than the wavelength of what we are using to see it. thats why electron microscopes are capable of seeing very very small objects, which conventional microscopes cant see (the electron has a very small wavelength).

an electron isnt a particle anyway, its wave characteristics dominate over its particle characteristics. theres also an unavoidable uncertainty to where the electron really is too.

by using our photon we can pinpoint the location of the electron, but not its subsequent momentum, thereafter. When i said we're LOOKING at the electron, i did not mean to get a visual of the eletron but a measurement or its trajectory and position.

[Tren Bull]

Also the conclusion and explanation of the elctron behaving liek a wave comes out of quantum mechanics which is beyond my scope...

i dont think we will ever enderstand why this is. its kinda like asking why relativity happens, or exactly what it is that creates gravity (like the particle that makes up a gravitational field. it exerts surface pressure so there has to be something there, but it basically defies the laws of physics)

[Tren Bull]

by using our photon we can pinpoint the location of the electron, but not its subsequent momentum, thereafter. When i said we're LOOKING at the electron, i did not mean to get a visual of the eletron but a measurement or its trajectory and position.

yea, the wavepacket drawing is coming to my mind when you say that bro

[Tren Bull]

quantum mechanics is weird bro. but honestly i think relativity is even more bizarre

[MotoXracer]

exactly, its a probability of where it might be, but we have no way of knowing exactly where it is.

thats the hysenberg uncertainty principle

Hysenburg liked to talk some $hit is his day. Oh Snap!

The more I think about the physical portion of Schrödinger's theory, the more repulsive I find it...What Schrödinger writes about the visualizability of his theory 'is probably not quite right,' in other words it's crap.

--Heisenberg, writing to Pauli, 1926

[Tren Bull]

Hysenburg liked to talk some $hit is his day. Oh Snap!

The more I think about the physical portion of Schrödinger's theory, the more repulsive I find it...What Schrödinger writes about the visualizability of his theory 'is probably not quite right,' in other words it's crap.

--Heisenberg, writing to Pauli, 1926

yea, Schrödinger had no idea what psi actually was. he thought it was something totally different. hes still the man though. that equation applied to the hydrogen atom is pimp... fu_kin long and ugly too

[Tren Bull]

haha, whenever i try to impress someone, il show them that equation. if someone had never seen it before and you explain it to them, they think you're a straight genious.

i like it when females are impressed by that. haha, this one girl at work told me to stop telling her about math cause i was turning her on.

[stunner5000pt]

actually schrodinger's wave equation was classically derived at first. Only later did he make into a quantum mechanical equation

i will learn about it next year in my 3rd year 'modern physics' class

[Tren Bull]

actually schrodinger's wave equation was classically derived at first. Only later did he make into a quantum mechanical equation

i will learn about it next year in my 3rd year 'modern physics' class

yep, it all started with the equation

total energy = kinetic energy + potential energy

[stunner5000pt]

yep, it all started with the equation

total energy = kinetic energy + potential energy

the Hamiltonian would be a precursor to it, and make things very easy to derive, thereafter