Justified Violence??

[ecivon]

Phreak 101 ... "So many stories of ass kickings as of late...bunch of hardasses on this board"!

When is violence justified? The gangbanger thread, the subway thread, a wife being tripped? It's hard to define, but in self-defense, or helping the defenseless, or bullied, is that how we define violence, including self-defense and how far do we go, how much self-defense is justified? Maybe I am a hypocrite, I'm passionately anti-violence, but if I were in a relationship you hurt that person, or hurt my children, f**k you, I'm going to really f**k you up. I'll go down kicking and swinging. I'll bite, swing a bat and resort to whatever level of violence is necessary to overcome the opponent that wants to hurt my loved ones. But when so much raw emotion is involved at that particular moment and the adrenaline is pumping it is hard to just turn it off. I'm a single father raising 3 boys, 22, 21 and 15. They all lift and are big and know how to fight. The oldest is 6' 1" benches 280, his brother is 21, almost 6' 1" and benches over 350. But if the odds are against you no matter how tough you are, youre going down. In Seattle (a very violent city) gangs of kids from all demographics roam the city looking for other kids they outnumber to jump and kick the shit out of. They do it with impunity because the Seattle PD doesn't give a shit and doesn't investigate. My family is an extended family and all of the cousins all hang together (15 of them), are tremendous athletes, all over 6' and all lift and all can fight and so do all of their friends. The kids in my family have been nicknamed 'The Fam' and they and their friends are never picked on because no matter where they go it seems the 'The Fam' is known and never messed with. They have all got one punch knock out shots and will use it. I don't like it at all but it gives me comfort when my youngest, 15, is out with his younger cousins and friends and have been in badass situations when someone will recognize them as part of 'The Fam' and it has kept them from being attacked. More than once I've gotten the dreaded middle of the night phone calls telling me one of my kids, sometimes both, or another family member is in the hospital because of fight injuries. Once my two oldest and two of their cousins were jumped by a group of 20 and got the crap beat out of them with the cops standing there watching and they didn't do a damned thing to intervene -- There's a city policy/forgiveness, that if a cop feels their security/welfare is threatened they are not compelled to intervene, so they just stood there and watched my oldest son literally get his head stomped on so bad he had bleeding on the brain so bad it blew out his eardrum from the inside out. I don't like any of the violence and chew the hell out of them all the time, but, no matter where you live, it is all about promoting violence -- UFC, MMA, Pride Fighting, etc. And for all of the bullshit polls you hear about Seattle being friendly and safe, don't believe it, or about any other city/place. But don't ever mess with anyone in my family, or I'll mess you up!! Me and my bros-in-law drove around many times looking for those who have attacked our kids. See what I mean, I'm a hypocrite, it's okay for me, but no one else. Go figure.

[Phreak101]

Phreak 101 ... "So many stories of ass kickings as of late...bunch of hardasses on this board"!

When is violence justified? The gangbanger thread, the subway thread, a wife being tripped? It's hard to define, but in self-defense, or helping the defenseless, or bullied, is that how we define violence, including self-defense and how far do we go, how much self-defense is justified? Maybe I am a hypocrite, I'm passionately anti-violence, but if I were in a relationship you hurt that person, or hurt my children, f**k you, I'm going to really f**k you up. I'll go down kicking and swinging. I'll bite, swing a bat and resort to whatever level of violence is necessary to overcome the opponent that wants to hurt my loved ones. But when so much raw emotion is involved at that particular moment and the adrenaline is pumping it is hard to just turn it off. I'm a single father raising 3 boys, 22, 21 and 15. They all lift and are big and know how to fight. The oldest is 6' 1" benches 280, his brother is 21, almost 6' 1" and benches over 350. But if the odds are against you no matter how tough you are, youre going down. In Seattle (a very violent city) gangs of kids from all demographics roam the city looking for other kids they outnumber to jump and kick the shit out of. They do it with impunity because the Seattle PD doesn't give a shit and doesn't investigate. My family is an extended family and all of the cousins all hang together (15 of them), are tremendous athletes, all over 6' and all lift and all can fight and so do all of their friends. The kids in my family have been nicknamed 'The Fam' and they and their friends are never picked on because no matter where they go it seems the 'The Fam' is known and never messed with. They have all got one punch knock out shots and will use it. I don't like it at all but it gives me comfort when my youngest, 15, is out with his younger cousins and friends and have been in badass situations when someone will recognize them as part of 'The Fam' and it has kept them from being attacked. More than once I've gotten the dreaded middle of the night phone calls telling me one of my kids, sometimes both, or another family member is in the hospital because of fight injuries. Once my two oldest and two of their cousins were jumped by a group of 20 and got the crap beat out of them with the cops standing there watching and they didn't do a damned thing to intervene -- There's a city policy/forgiveness, that if a cop feels their security/welfare is threatened they are not compelled to intervene, so they just stood there and watched my oldest son literally get his head stomped on so bad he had bleeding on the brain so bad it blew out his eardrum from the inside out. I don't like any of the violence and chew the hell out of them all the time, but, no matter where you live, it is all about promoting violence -- UFC, MMA, Pride Fighting, etc. And for all of the bullshit polls you hear about Seattle being friendly and safe, don't believe it, or about any other city/place. But don't ever mess with anyone in my family, or I'll mess you up!! Me and my bros-in-law drove around many times looking for those who have attacked our kids. See what I mean, I'm a hypocrite, it's okay for me, but no one else. Go figure.

There is a natural law of vengeance that I believe still applies and can be a good meter of whether violence is acceptable. Fvck what the law says, if someone breaks into my home and starts attacking my wife, I WILL shoot him, dead if possible.

The very idea that I will be persecuted and most likely charged for doing so since the gun would be considered "excessive force" is ridiculous! Violence should only be used as a last resort, but I do still firmly believe in an eye for an eye, and in this case Evicon, you sounded justified.

[Snrf]

I agree with you phreak, but I have a shovel and a bag of lime, someone breaks into my house I'm not gonna call the cops to hand his carcass over and get myself into trouble.

[audis4]

Phreak 101 ... "So many stories of ass kickings as of late...bunch of hardasses on this board"!

When is violence justified? The gangbanger thread, the subway thread, a wife being tripped? It's hard to define, but in self-defense, or helping the defenseless, or bullied, is that how we define violence, including self-defense and how far do we go, how much self-defense is justified? Maybe I am a hypocrite, I'm passionately anti-violence, but if I were in a relationship you hurt that person, or hurt my children, f**k you, I'm going to really f**k you up. I'll go down kicking and swinging. I'll bite, swing a bat and resort to whatever level of violence is necessary to overcome the opponent that wants to hurt my loved ones. But when so much raw emotion is involved at that particular moment and the adrenaline is pumping it is hard to just turn it off. I'm a single father raising 3 boys, 22, 21 and 15. They all lift and are big and know how to fight. The oldest is 6' 1" benches 280, his brother is 21, almost 6' 1" and benches over 350. But if the odds are against you no matter how tough you are, youre going down. In Seattle (a very violent city) gangs of kids from all demographics roam the city looking for other kids they outnumber to jump and kick the shit out of. They do it with impunity because the Seattle PD doesn't give a shit and doesn't investigate. My family is an extended family and all of the cousins all hang together (15 of them), are tremendous athletes, all over 6' and all lift and all can fight and so do all of their friends. The kids in my family have been nicknamed 'The Fam' and they and their friends are never picked on because no matter where they go it seems the 'The Fam' is known and never messed with. They have all got one punch knock out shots and will use it. I don't like it at all but it gives me comfort when my youngest, 15, is out with his younger cousins and friends and have been in badass situations when someone will recognize them as part of 'The Fam' and it has kept them from being attacked. More than once I've gotten the dreaded middle of the night phone calls telling me one of my kids, sometimes both, or another family member is in the hospital because of fight injuries. Once my two oldest and two of their cousins were jumped by a group of 20 and got the crap beat out of them with the cops standing there watching and they didn't do a damned thing to intervene -- There's a city policy/forgiveness, that if a cop feels their security/welfare is threatened they are not compelled to intervene, so they just stood there and watched my oldest son literally get his head stomped on so bad he had bleeding on the brain so bad it blew out his eardrum from the inside out. I don't like any of the violence and chew the hell out of them all the time, but, no matter where you live, it is all about promoting violence -- UFC, MMA, Pride Fighting, etc. And for all of the bullshit polls you hear about Seattle being friendly and safe, don't believe it, or about any other city/place. But don't ever mess with anyone in my family, or I'll mess you up!! Me and my bros-in-law drove around many times looking for those who have attacked our kids. See what I mean, I'm a hypocrite, it's okay for me, but no one else. Go figure.

someone's bored...

[Phreak101]

someone's bored...

[Flagg]

Well i've always hated bullies and people that think they can go around, doing what they want to people without any sense of consequence is plain wrong. I don't go looking for trouble but if some prick tries to do for ya you may as well go ahead and enjoy yourself.

[ecivon]

There is a natural law of vengeance that I believe still applies and can be a good meter of whether violence is acceptable. Fvck what the law says, if someone breaks into my home and starts attacking my wife, I WILL shoot him, dead if possible.

The very idea that I will be persecuted and most likely charged for doing so since the gun would be considered "excessive force" is ridiculous! Violence should only be used as a last resort, but I do still firmly believe in an eye for an eye, and in this case Evicon, you sounded justified.

Phreak, Don't misunderstand me Bro, I'm like you, you hurt my kids/family you better be damned good. You come into my house uninvited I'm assuming it's for bad reasons and you'd better be prepared cause I've got a frame of mind that you won't like. Like the cops here have said publically, if an intruder comes into your house you can kill him if you feel threatened, if he is unarmed put a knife, or screwdriver in his hand.

[l2elapse]

"violence can be used for good"

[ecivon]

someone's bored...

If you're in area code 509 shouldn't you be rooting for the Ducks, instead of the Huskies?

[audis4]

If you're in area code 509 shouldn't you be rooting for the Ducks, instead of the Huskies?

....ya your bored....looking up my area code

[ecivon]

"violence can be used for good"

Yeah, you're right, it's too bad it has to be that way though.

[ecivon]

....ya your bored....looking up my area code

LOL ... Not when it is prominently displayed as your location every time you post.

[l2elapse]

LOL ... Not when it is prominently displayed as your location every time you post.

lolz

[Flagg]

LOL ... Not when it is prominently displayed as your location every time you post.

[audis4]

ya, I certainly got owned...dumbass

[ecivon]

ya, I certainly got owned...dumbass

It's all in fun Bro ... and you didn't answer about the Ducks and Huskies!?

[Rye_guy]

Violence is called for if you eat my last slice of pizza on cheat day!

[THE_DOME]

isnt tacoma prodingmore criminals than seattle

more on over here to spokane

[ecivon]

isnt tacoma prodingmore criminals than seattle

more on over here to spokane

Yeah, you've got a point. The whole I-5 corridor is really getting bad, especially from Everett past Fort Lewis. Pierce County doesn't do any more than King.

[THE_DOME]

we just have a bunch of meth heads cooking in their back years and a bunch of russians stealing cars here in spokane

[MuscleScience]

I have a rather large facial scar and I was picked on quite a bit as a child. My dad was a poor pig farmer and went to school smelling like pig sh-t every day. He would be picked on and got in fights for it. He had 3 older brothers and if he got into a fight at school and lost he would get it worse at home. Then they would go out and find the kid or kids (usually a group of kids) and they would fight them all as a family. When I would come home because someone would pick on me he would get pissed but he never wanted me to grow up like he did being violent and hurting people. He wanted me to diffuse the situation other ways. But bullies only know one thing and thats fear. So after unsuccesful attempts to get the bullies to stop picking on me. He said enought was enought. We went out after school everyday for weeks teaching me to fight. finally the day came and a bullie picked on me and I proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Then the next day the same thing another one came and I beat him up. I found out that I was a pretty good fighter because I was more scared of going home and disappointing my dad than I ever was of a bullie no matter how big he was. To make a long story short, I pretty much had to fight in school about every day until highschool because of some bullie or hardass who thought he was tough. I hated to fight and I still do but it got to the point were every situation you get into calls for violence when its in your face everyday. By the time highschool roled around people knew not to mess with me because I had a pretty good name for my self and im still pretty well respected in my hometown in that respect. I wish it were for something else but thats how fate would have it. Now it really takes alot to get me to fight nowadays I dont even care if someone pushes me or calles me names. What ever I can handle most situation. But when family is involved thats when things are not ok. My little brother got into it one night and got busted in the face with a beer bottle. At about 3 in the morning I get this knock on my bedroom door with my brother saying that he was bleed really bad and like 10 dudes were outside going to beat him up. I was home for college break. When i went outside it was more like 15 dudes. I was so f-ing pissed I didnt even see how many people were there. Everyone there didnt know I was home for the weekend so they just thought they could beat on my brother. He is a big kid 6'1 and 230 at the time so no one was going to fight one on one. But when they saw that I was home not a soul would stepup and say anything. they just said that my brother had better watch out and sh-t like that. One of the ringleaders said that they didnt have a problem with me and it was between him and my brother. I told him anything between you and my brother is my business too. I told him in not so kind words that if anyone touched my brother for any reason I was coming for him. Not to say that Im a hard ass or the toughest mothafeer around but Im going to stand up for family no matter what. I was scared as hell but no way was I going to let my brother down. Nothing ever came of it after that and one guy even apologized later. Its so sad that violence is the only thing that some people understand. sorry if this story was long its just when i read the post it was like a flashback to growing up.

[ecivon]

I have a rather large facial scar and I was picked on quite a bit as a child. My dad was a poor pig farmer and went to school smelling like pig sh-t every day. He would be picked on and got in fights for it. He had 3 older brothers and if he got into a fight at school and lost he would get it worse at home. Then they would go out and find the kid or kids (usually a group of kids) and they would fight them all as a family. When I would come home because someone would pick on me he would get pissed but he never wanted me to grow up like he did being violent and hurting people. He wanted me to diffuse the situation other ways. But bullies only know one thing and thats fear. So after unsuccesful attempts to get the bullies to stop picking on me. He said enought was enought. We went out after school everyday for weeks teaching me to fight. finally the day came and a bullie picked on me and I proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Then the next day the same thing another one came and I beat him up. I found out that I was a pretty good fighter because I was more scared of going home and disappointing my dad than I ever was of a bullie no matter how big he was. To make a long story short, I pretty much had to fight in school about every day until highschool because of some bullie or hardass who thought he was tough. I hated to fight and I still do but it got to the point were every situation you get into calls for violence when its in your face everyday. By the time highschool roled around people knew not to mess with me because I had a pretty good name for my self and im still pretty well respected in my hometown in that respect. I wish it were for something else but thats how fate would have it. Now it really takes alot to get me to fight nowadays I dont even care if someone pushes me or calles me names. What ever I can handle most situation. But when family is involved thats when things are not ok. My little brother got into it one night and got busted in the face with a beer bottle. At about 3 in the morning I get this knock on my bedroom door with my brother saying that he was bleed really bad and like 10 dudes were outside going to beat him up. I was home for college break. When i went outside it was more like 15 dudes. I was so f-ing pissed I didnt even see how many people were there. Everyone there didnt know I was home for the weekend so they just thought they could beat on my brother. He is a big kid 6'1 and 230 at the time so no one was going to fight one on one. But when they saw that I was home not a soul would stepup and say anything. they just said that my brother had better watch out and sh-t like that. One of the ringleaders said that they didnt have a problem with me and it was between him and my brother. I told him anything between you and my brother is my business too. I told him in not so kind words that if anyone touched my brother for any reason I was coming for him. Not to say that Im a hard ass or the toughest mothafeer around but Im going to stand up for family no matter what. I was scared as hell but no way was I going to let my brother down. Nothing ever came of it after that and one guy even apologized later. Its so sad that violence is the only thing that some people understand. sorry if this story was long its just when i read the post it was like a flashback to growing up.

No way Bro, your story was okay. That's the way I feel about my family. F**k with my kids and I won't care what your excuse is. When I was 17, right before I went in the military, my dad and older brother would get in the damndest fights for no reason -- they were bigots, so it was usually racially motivated -- at malls, in the middle of the street, in stores, it didn't matter. My half sister came home with a mexican boy one time and my dad chased him down the street with a baseball bat. It's different when you grow up in that kind of influence, either you are part of it, or it repulses you. It's all bullshit.

[MuscleScience]

I have a little sister and I would give up everything for her if someone f-cked with her. I Strait up told her boyfriend now that if she ever comes home crying because of him that there would be absolute hell to pay.

[l2elapse]

I have a little sister and I would give up everything for her if someone f-cked with her. I Strait up told her boyfriend now that if she ever comes home crying because of him that there would be absolute hell to pay.

thats pushing it because im sure you have broken a girls heart before...it happens

[MuscleScience]

thats pushing it because im sure you have broken a girls heart before...it happens

I dont mean breaking up or leaving or anything like that. I mean cheating, beating or mistreating all of which I dont do with any girl I have dated. As long as he is respectful then its cool.

[Kale]

Phreak 101 ... "So many stories of ass kickings as of late...bunch of hardasses on this board"!

When is violence justified? The gangbanger thread, the subway thread, a wife being tripped? It's hard to define, but in self-defense, or helping the defenseless, or bullied, is that how we define violence, including self-defense and how far do we go, how much self-defense is justified? Maybe I am a hypocrite, I'm passionately anti-violence, but if I were in a relationship you hurt that person, or hurt my children, f**k you, I'm going to really f**k you up. I'll go down kicking and swinging. I'll bite, swing a bat and resort to whatever level of violence is necessary to overcome the opponent that wants to hurt my loved ones. But when so much raw emotion is involved at that particular moment and the adrenaline is pumping it is hard to just turn it off. I'm a single father raising 3 boys, 22, 21 and 15. They all lift and are big and know how to fight. The oldest is 6' 1" benches 280, his brother is 21, almost 6' 1" and benches over 350. But if the odds are against you no matter how tough you are, youre going down. In Seattle (a very violent city) gangs of kids from all demographics roam the city looking for other kids they outnumber to jump and kick the shit out of. They do it with impunity because the Seattle PD doesn't give a shit and doesn't investigate. My family is an extended family and all of the cousins all hang together (15 of them), are tremendous athletes, all over 6' and all lift and all can fight and so do all of their friends. The kids in my family have been nicknamed 'The Fam' and they and their friends are never picked on because no matter where they go it seems the 'The Fam' is known and never messed with. They have all got one punch knock out shots and will use it. I don't like it at all but it gives me comfort when my youngest, 15, is out with his younger cousins and friends and have been in badass situations when someone will recognize them as part of 'The Fam' and it has kept them from being attacked. More than once I've gotten the dreaded middle of the night phone calls telling me one of my kids, sometimes both, or another family member is in the hospital because of fight injuries. Once my two oldest and two of their cousins were jumped by a group of 20 and got the crap beat out of them with the cops standing there watching and they didn't do a damned thing to intervene -- There's a city policy/forgiveness, that if a cop feels their security/welfare is threatened they are not compelled to intervene, so they just stood there and watched my oldest son literally get his head stomped on so bad he had bleeding on the brain so bad it blew out his eardrum from the inside out. I don't like any of the violence and chew the hell out of them all the time, but, no matter where you live, it is all about promoting violence -- UFC, MMA, Pride Fighting, etc. And for all of the bullshit polls you hear about Seattle being friendly and safe, don't believe it, or about any other city/place. But don't ever mess with anyone in my family, or I'll mess you up!! Me and my bros-in-law drove around many times looking for those who have attacked our kids. See what I mean, I'm a hypocrite, it's okay for me, but no one else. Go figure.

[STYLE74]

I agree with you phreak, but I have a shovel and a bag of lime, someone breaks into my house I'm not gonna call the cops to hand his carcass over and get myself into trouble.

NOT calling the cops would be the STUPID thing to do, because atleast if you call the cops you can explain your story and have it on record and let them know that they broke into your house and your family was in danger and you had to defend yourself. The court would see that and you would probably get off for the crime or maybe just do a little time depending if the gun was legal or not. What are you going to do kill the guy and then bury him on your property so one day someone finds the body and you get charged with 1st DEGREE MURDER...? Or are you going to kill the guy and then put him in your trunk and drive somewhere to dig a hole and bury him and risk someone seeing you..? Because you know someone MIGHT just see you putting a dead body in your trunk or you just MIGHT get pulled over for something. Look it boils down to this, if you call the cops you can plead self defense, if you just bury the body somewhere you are taking a chance that it will come back to you, and if it comes back to you, you will be looking at 1st DEGREE MURDER (POSSIBLY LIFE IN PRISON), that self defense $hit won't fly in court anymore once you have disposed of the body. If someone ever broke into my house, i would shoot them and call the cops and explain how my family's life was in danger and i had no choice but to protect them. That would be the BEST thing anyone could do. You are trying to sound cool and you watch too many movies. Be smart!

[sooners04]

You guys DO have the right to protect your property/family by any means necessary. You will not be punished for killing someone who has come into your house and tried to hurt your family. Same on the street. You have the right to DEFEND yourself by appropriate means. If someone throws a punch at you, you can fight back with empty hands until the threat is stopped. If they come at you with a club you can come back with the same or use your hands and now you can break an arm/leg etc... Someone comes after you with a gun/knife then kill away. Again it will ultimately be up to a judge but no judge is going to think its okay to break someones arm/leg just because they pushed you.

[sooners04]

NOT calling the cops would be the STUPID thing to do, because atleast if you call the cops you can explain your story and have it on record and let them know that they broke into your house and your family was in danger and you had to defend yourself. The court would see that and you would probably get off for the crime or maybe just do a little time depending if the gun was legal or not. What are you going to do kill the guy and then bury him on your property so one day someone finds the body and you get charged with 1st DEGREE MURDER...? Or are you going to kill the guy and then put him in your trunk and drive somewhere to dig a hole and bury him and risk someone seeing you..? Because you know someone MIGHT just see you putting a dead body in your trunk or you just MIGHT get pulled over for something. Look it boils down to this, if you call the cops you can plead self defense, if you just bury the body somewhere you are taking a chance that it will come back to you, and if it comes back to you, you will be looking at 1st DEGREE MURDER (POSSIBLY LIFE IN PRISON), that self defense $hit won't fly in court anymore once you have disposed of the body. If someone ever broke into my house, i would shoot them and call the cops and explain how my family's life was in danger and i had no choice but to ptotect them. That would be the BEST thing anyone could do. You are trying to sound cool and you watch too many movies. Be smart!

EXACTLY!!

[Panzerfaust]

I don't like any of the violence and chew the hell out of them all the time, but, no matter where you live, it is all about promoting violence -- UFC, MMA, Pride Fighting, etc.

This has to be one of the most ignorant statements i have seen in awhile. Since when is professional athletes signing a contract and training in the gym for months on end to fight another athlete in a ring/cage promoting violence? You are obviously ignorant to the sport of MMA and do not realise it is sanctioned and that there are rules to protect the fighters.

It is not a street fight. I noticed you did not mention Boxing which is one of the deadliest "sports" ever. Must be a Boxing lover..

And when does being "big" and benching "300lbs" make you a fighter? If the neighbourhood is that bad, i suggest you move.

[Kärnfysikern]

Only time violence is justified is when it comes to self defence or protecting someone else. Beeing the aggressor is always beeing stupid.

I have never been in a fight and only one time in my life have I resorted to force to deal with a situation.

Those that constantly get into fights are either living in a realy shitty place or have a attitude that is asking for it.

[*Narkissos*]

I have fought only in self defense.

I tend to only react in that manner if someone in my immediate family.. or my significant other is threatened (with physical instigative contact).. or attacked in my presence.

I'm not a violent person.. outwardly.

But my thought process is always keyed toward situational violent responses.

As i said... i generally don't fight..and am never the agressor... but my mind is always keyed to reciprocate violence when deemed a necessary defensive response.

My body i keep similarly prepared. I no longer box nor do a martial art.. but i do practise sparring for co-ordination... some grappling when the martial artists at school concede to spar with me...and a lot of flexibility training for situational response. I keep cardio vascular fitness up for this reason also.

When do i perceive violence as 'necessary'?

It depends on the individual..and the nature of the antagonist.

Sure.. some say "try to diffuse the situation with talking"

Most times.. talking doesn't work.

Trying it, depending on how irate the aggressor is, serves only to further irritate the aggressor.

Walking away is in this same vein as well.

It is perceived as disrespect.. or a dismissal of the aggressor's potential threat... further serving to infuriate the aggressor.

Personally.. if witnesses are around.. i allow the fight to take place.

I assess the person's combatitive stance and fluidity to assess the threat (tho this isn't a universal guide, the aggressor's comfort in the stance usually indicates the fluidity with which the punches will be applied).

I take the first blow.. for the police report.. This is again if witnesses are present.

And i try to end the fight quickly from that point.

I don't believe in those long drawn out fights.. that's what sparring is for.

[STYLE74]

I have fought only in self defense.

I tend to only react in that manner if someone in my immediate family.. or my significant other is threatened (with physical instigative contact).. or attacked in my presence.

I'm not a violent person.. outwardly.

But my thought process is always keyed toward situational violent responses.

As i said... i generally don't fight..and am never the agressor... but my mind is always keyed to reciprocate violence when deemed a necessary defensive response.

My body i keep similarly prepared. I no longer box nor do a martial art.. but i do practise sparring for co-ordination... some grappling when the martial artists at school concede to spar with me...and a lot of flexibility training for situational response. I keep cardio vascular fitness up for this reason also.

When do i perceive violence as 'necessary'?

It depends on the individual..and the nature of the antagonist.

Sure.. some say "try to diffuse the situation with talking"

Most times.. talking doesn't work.

Trying it, depending on how irate the aggressor is, serves only to further irritate the aggressor.

Walking away is in this same vein as well.

It is perceived as disrespect.. or a dismissal of the aggressor's potential threat... further serving to infuriate the aggressor.

Personally.. if witnesses are around.. i allow the fight to take place.

I assess the person's combatitive stance and fluidity to assess the threat (tho this isn't a universal guide, the aggressor's comfort in the stance usually indicates the fluidity with which the punches will be applied).

I take the first blow.. for the police report.. This is again if witnesses are present.

And i try to end the fight quickly from that point.

I don't believe in those long drawn out fights.. that's what sparring is for.

Nice post Nark.

[bigbouncinballs]

Phreak 101 ... "So many stories of ass kickings as of late...bunch of hardasses on this board"!

When is violence justified? The gangbanger thread, the subway thread, a wife being tripped? It's hard to define, but in self-defense, or helping the defenseless, or bullied, is that how we define violence, including self-defense and how far do we go, how much self-defense is justified? Maybe I am a hypocrite, I'm passionately anti-violence, but if I were in a relationship you hurt that person, or hurt my children, f**k you, I'm going to really f**k you up. I'll go down kicking and swinging. I'll bite, swing a bat and resort to whatever level of violence is necessary to overcome the opponent that wants to hurt my loved ones. But when so much raw emotion is involved at that particular moment and the adrenaline is pumping it is hard to just turn it off. I'm a single father raising 3 boys, 22, 21 and 15. They all lift and are big and know how to fight. The oldest is 6' 1" benches 280, his brother is 21, almost 6' 1" and benches over 350. But if the odds are against you no matter how tough you are, youre going down. In Seattle (a very violent city) gangs of kids from all demographics roam the city looking for other kids they outnumber to jump and kick the shit out of. They do it with impunity because the Seattle PD doesn't give a shit and doesn't investigate. My family is an extended family and all of the cousins all hang together (15 of them), are tremendous athletes, all over 6' and all lift and all can fight and so do all of their friends. The kids in my family have been nicknamed 'The Fam' and they and their friends are never picked on because no matter where they go it seems the 'The Fam' is known and never messed with. They have all got one punch knock out shots and will use it. I don't like it at all but it gives me comfort when my youngest, 15, is out with his younger cousins and friends and have been in badass situations when someone will recognize them as part of 'The Fam' and it has kept them from being attacked. More than once I've gotten the dreaded middle of the night phone calls telling me one of my kids, sometimes both, or another family member is in the hospital because of fight injuries. Once my two oldest and two of their cousins were jumped by a group of 20 and got the crap beat out of them with the cops standing there watching and they didn't do a damned thing to intervene -- There's a city policy/forgiveness, that if a cop feels their security/welfare is threatened they are not compelled to intervene, so they just stood there and watched my oldest son literally get his head stomped on so bad he had bleeding on the brain so bad it blew out his eardrum from the inside out. I don't like any of the violence and chew the hell out of them all the time, but, no matter where you live, it is all about promoting violence -- UFC, MMA, Pride Fighting, etc. And for all of the bullshit polls you hear about Seattle being friendly and safe, don't believe it, or about any other city/place. But don't ever mess with anyone in my family, or I'll mess you up!! Me and my bros-in-law drove around many times looking for those who have attacked our kids. See what I mean, I'm a hypocrite, it's okay for me, but no one else. Go figure.

first off, its been said: use paragraphs.
secondly, i find the cop thing hard to stomach. if there is such a statute/policy then it directly conflicts with the "to serve and protect" credo and as such is . what you're saying is that i can go and rob a bank, threaten to cap any copper that stops me, and the officers called to the scene can just sit back and enjoy their coffee because, as you say, "their security/welfare is threatened." ummm... that's what they're appointed for.
finally, i thought you just went on about your sons not getting picked on, only to end by saying he got his head stomped on...

wtf

[bigbouncinballs]

You guys DO have the right to protect your property/family by any means necessary. You will not be punished for killing someone who has come into your house and tried to hurt your family. Same on the street. You have the right to DEFEND yourself by appropriate means. If someone throws a punch at you, you can fight back with empty hands until the threat is stopped. If they come at you with a club you can come back with the same or use your hands and now you can break an arm/leg etc... Someone comes after you with a gun/knife then kill away. Again it will ultimately be up to a judge but no judge is going to think its okay to break someones arm/leg just because they pushed you.

gotta clarify your first sentence. you are NEVER allowed to use deadly force regarding the protection of property, barring its the last van gogh on earth or something similar. however, as you stated, like force or that of a reasonably prudent person of same or similar circumstances is what the court is going to look at.
also, before any of you go killing people and hope self-defense gets you off the hook remember that in a public place, if escape is available you must first make use of it unless the threat is so imminent that attempted escape is going to get you killed (so if a guy is 50ft away with a knife and says "i'm gonna slice you up, if you run up to him and put his knife in him you're on the hook for exercising escape. however, this rule never applies in your domicile.

one more thing on reasonable force proportionate to the threat: just because you go overboard doesn't mean you're goin to jail, if a guy attacks you with his fists and you shoot him once, you're only liable for the excess force used.

long story short, shoot a guy, get a good lawyer.

[*Narkissos*]

^^ "shoot a guy...get a good lawyer"

nice

*oils gun*

[ecivon]

first off, its been said: use paragraphs.
secondly, i find the cop thing hard to stomach. if there is such a statute/policy then it directly conflicts with the "to serve and protect" credo and as such is . what you're saying is that i can go and rob a bank, threaten to cap any copper that stops me, and the officers called to the scene can just sit back and enjoy their coffee because, as you say, "their security/welfare is threatened." ummm... that's what they're appointed for.
finally, i thought you just went on about your sons not getting picked on, only to end by saying he got his head stomped on...

wtf

I'll use paragraphs when I see fit. And it's a fact that in Seattle the police do not have to intervene if they feel their welfare and ability to overcome the situation is compromised. It has been an ongoing problem in this area with our PD. The police guild here is very powerful and our chief a lackey. We have a type of Mardi Gras, called Fat Tuesday. It is nothing more than a big drunken party taking over the old portion of downtown Seattle. During a recent event gangs roamed through the district randomly attacking people unprovoked and beating them with bats, bottles, etc. A news video captured some assailants beating on a young woman and a kid named Kris Kime went to her aid and was beaten to death while the police stood there and watched. The entire night these groups of toughs roamed the area beating people all night and the police never did a thing to intercede.

(I'll humor you and make a paragraph) Read closely ... In my post I said no matter how tough you are if you are outnumbered you will go down -- my kids are tough and I said I didn't like it -- I don't -- but they were attacked by 20 guys and there were only 4 of them. Great odds!

The other issue we have here is corruption in our PD. Clubs, theaters, private facilities hire off-duty cops as private guards and they wear their uniforms and use patrol cars to function as private security guards but will not intercede as police officers when crimes are being committed. When my kids were being attacked it was in the parking lot of a club and the police used the excuse that they weren't compelled to intercede because they were security guards, yet wearing their uniforms, carrying service weapons and driving patrol cars. Citizens have the right and expectation that such a person is a cop, whether in the employ of the city, or by a private concern if they are wearing their badge and using department issue vehicles. Many cops were on the take from these clubs allowing known drug dealing and prostitution and were being monitored by the FBI and Justice Department.

So, my suggestion is, before you call bullshit, know what you are talking about.

[bigbouncinballs]

I'll use paragraphs when I see fit. And it's a fact that in Seattle the police do not have to intervene if they feel their welfare and ability to overcome the situation is compromised. It has been an ongoing problem in this area with our PD. The police guild here is very powerful and our chief a lackey. We have a type of Mardi Gras, called Fat Tuesday. It is nothing more than a big drunken party taking over the old portion of downtown Seattle. During a recent event gangs roamed through the district randomly attacking people unprovoked and beating them with bats, bottles, etc. A news video captured some assailants beating on a young woman and a kid named Kris Kime went to her aid and was beaten to death while the police stood there and watched. The entire night these groups of toughs roamed the area beating people all night and the police never did a thing to intercede.

(I'll humor you and make a paragraph) Read closely ... In my post I said no matter how tough you are if you are outnumbered you will go down -- my kids are tough and I said I didn't like it -- I don't -- but they were attacked by 20 guys and there were only 4 of them. Great odds!

The other issue we have here is corruption in our PD. Clubs, theaters, private facilities hire off-duty cops as private guards and they wear their uniforms and use patrol cars to function as private security guards but will not intercede as police officers when crimes are being committed. When my kids were being attacked it was in the parking lot of a club and the police used the excuse that they weren't compelled to intercede because they were security guards, yet wearing their uniforms, carrying service weapons and driving patrol cars. Citizens have the right and expectation that such a person is a cop, whether in the employ of the city, or by a private concern if they are wearing their badge and using department issue vehicles. Many cops were on the take from these clubs allowing known drug dealing and prostitution and were being monitored by the FBI and Justice Department.

So, my suggestion is, before you call bullshit, know what you are talking about.

u wanna be a smarta$$, go ahead. you've just made yourself look even more foolish.
a) you allude to the police not having to intervene when threatened and use a recent episode as evidence. yet your argument fails because the police had no choice in that incidence. this is an excerpt taken from the casefile of the firm representing Klime, "The police were not allowed to protect and serve but were ordered to stand by and watch as citizens were brutalized. Mayor Schell had given strict instructions that he was not to be disturbed as he planned on getting a good night’s sleep."
b) your "recent" event as you erroneously put it, occurred in February of 2001
c) read close.. read closer! "The kids in my family have been nicknamed 'The Fam' and they and their friends are never picked on because no matter where they go it seems the 'The Fam' is known and never messed with." just pointing out contradictions, don't know why ya gotta get all uppity

just sounds like a lot of anti-police speculation and i jumped on it, nothing personal. any further references would be appreciated, it sounds like seattle is a terrible place to be. i'm still trying to find the statute you mentioned that allows a cop the right not to intercede, maybe you can point me in the right direction as that is not the norm.

but thanks for humoring me