F*ck The Middle East

[Fooboy]

The middle east....symaphize, or nuke the bastards
I say let them just kill each other off and the world will be safe once again. What kind of sick people bomb Universities and kill kids??? Sure we accidentally bombed a wedding but we're the U.S, we can do whatever the hell we want. The prob isn't here, it's there....your thoughts.

[Buddha_Red]

LOL dont you think they think everything they do is right too?

Dont get me wrong, i hate death for no freaking reason, but we cannot do whatever we want. If we think like that we are no better then the "evil countries" of the past


With that said, Bro i agree that they have some anger management problems bigtime, And i really think we need to stop thinking we can end that.

We cannot, They have been fighting and dying for a thousand years, no american no matter how many weapons can change that.

[Fooboy]

yeah, I just posted a thread on another forum. I stated how i was all about racial profiling and believe it is an absolute necessity. I'm asian and I get profiled a bit at the airport too but I have no prob with stepping aside and let the ugly bastard pat me down. And I sure as hell expect them to pull a man that resembles middle eastern decent aside as well. Facts and stats are facts and stats. I'm not gonna get blown up because the airlines have to respect rights. Now is neither the time nor the place.

[Buddha_Red]

I believe we need to do that for EVERYONE that gets on a plane.

I know thats a management nightmare, but any assh*ole can decide to blow up a plane or crash it into something.

The airlines have been asking for something like this to happen. I cant count the times i got onboard with a knife.

We need to tighten up and start thinking about OUR country for a while, instead of everyone elses.

[palme]

Originally posted by Buddha_Red

We need to tighten up and start thinking about OUR country for a while, instead of everyone elses.

Agree first solve your own countrys problems then help the other countrys that need help.

This might be considered as very egotistik thinking but why help starving people in some other country when there are people in your own country starving? Dont get this wrong i dont wish on anyone to starve. But we cant save the world by starting at the end...

About the middle east, they have there own culture, very hard to understand at times. Personally i would like to live in Israel if there wasnt any bombs going off every damn day. A very beautifull country and nice looking girls

[Buddha_Red]

I would love to visit there and learn more first hand of the people and the land. But in this day i have to worry about everywhere over there and its sad.

ive wanted to see the ejypt(yeah i know i cant spell hehe) as well, maybe one day i can without the thoughts of being killed because of where i was born.

The whole world makes me sad at times.

Black,brown,yellow,white,combo colored are different in ways which can be scary, i'll admit it.

But i try so hard to judge those that i meet on their actions and not those that i have yet to meet.

Maybe one day, we can drop the shit and chill for a while,
Maybe one day..

[palme]

Why are you afriad of visiting egypth?

[DADDY MACK]

HELP OURSELVES, THEN HELP THE REST. BUT, FOR NOW FUCK THE MIDDLE EAST

[DADDY MACK]

JUST KIDDING.. IT IS SAD. REASON BEING THE WAY WE WERE RAISED AND TAUGHT TO BELIEVE IS THE SAME FOR THEM. KINDA SAD.

[Buddha_Red]

Originally posted by palme
Why are you afriad of visiting egypth?

Well basically because america is on the shit list of all countries over there it seems.

I would like to wait until things calm down a bit, if they ever do

[Ryanhallmark]

Talking about air port security, about 2 months before sept 11, I was flying a plane a short flight 30 mins. And I had a carry on bag, well it wasnt really a bag but it was a Codless dill box..Now iam an installer (Car audio) and I was going to a nother store to work at for the weekend, and I brought on every basic tool I would need in the carring case, side cutters drill knife screw driver, wire stripper..a Multi Meter..When it went through the x-ray machine it looked like a god damn bomb, they didnt even say a word...Now what would they say.

[palme]

Buddah, egypth are a cool place, my moms is going there next year for 2 weeks. Iraq, saudi and palestina is more anti USA.

[Buddha_Red]

Originally posted by palme
Buddah, egypth are a cool place, my moms is going there next year for 2 weeks. Iraq, saudi and palestina is more anti USA.

Kewl, when she gets back could you ask her how she felt about the people knowing shes an american?

It would be awesome to visit there and i will one day, heh just wasnt sure about things over there.

[palme]

Shes Swede just like me...ive had friends there also and the egypths was cool with them.

[babi]

eh dude if u wanna go to egypt go rigth ahead if they ask where you are from just say from canada nobody will bother you then lol

[physio_sport]

every body blames the middle east and muslim countrys and make them look evil, sure they dont always make the best desicons, but the west shouldnt speak because its done bad things itself :-

-when the british / russians had there crusade in afganistan.
-when the whites got blacks as slaves.
-when the americans dropped nuckes on hiroshima and nagasaki.
-hitler.
-when the british empire was in pakistan they raped,beat,torterd our poeple.
-when isreal(middle eastern country funded by america) in 1981 destroyed the only nuclear reactor owned by a muslim country in iraq.

and another thing i dont like saddam hussain alot myself either but isnt it true that america gave spy sattelite pictures of iran to iraq and then gave spy photos of iraq to iran. and also that most of the chemical/biological warefare owned by saddam hussain was given to him by the americans.

basically what america does it spoon feeds information to its citizens
but it doesnt hide information from them, it just doesnt tell them.

and if saddam hussain is so dangerous why hassent he blown up america, youve already attack him 4 times.(we all know hes not scared of america).

and now to the american governtment they also where involved in the assination of malcom x(i have no proof) but they do have documents which they arnt releasing. also if he wasnt asseninated i personally think he could have been the first black american president.

just my opionion.

think about it.

[Buddha_Red]

There is no way in that era that malcom x could have been president.

And i could see how you could say Dr. King was killed by the government but malcom was killed by members of his own community. reportedly because he was quickly turning against the leadership of the nation at that time and that was too dangerous.

well thats my 2 cents anyways for what its worth =P

[Zoolander]

How does it make americans feel when their leaders gives the israel money to destroy or defend themselves against the palestines while the American economy is still in the red?????

F$ck the Middle east.
Leave the middle east alone let the U.N do their job instead of vetoing every thing they bring up and financing the massacre. ( imagine this Team A has A few Bombs, Mad matyr thinking people, a few guns and A whole lot of stone VS Team B with Tanks, Apaches, Bombers, Jet Fighters and a whole lot of up to date military equipment)

Forget about making war cause it costs money and lives, a whole lot of it.

Smile

[physio_sport]

yeah i dont understand how palastine could ever be a threat to isreal.
its impossable.

palastine :-

-suacide bombers.
-a few guns.
-some money from terrorist leaders/supporters.(who i think are fuckers)


isreal :-

-100+ nukes.
-bomber jets.
-spy sattelite ( from u.s)
-$7 million dollars of millatry funding from the U.S
-creators of one of the deadlyist gang weopons ever the UZI(from IMI Isreal Millitry Industries)
-full blown army.
-tanks.
- etc.. etc.. etc...

[BOUNCER]

Physio Sport, there's no such place as Palestine!. If your refering to the West Bank, pre 1967 it was Jordanian. After ask yourself why the Jordanian don't look for it back?, because it's full of Palestinians. Same is true for the Gaza, it WAS Egpytian but as it's full of Pals, AGAIN the Egpytians don't want it either. 'Palestinians' are a nomadic people who have NEVER ruled their own destiny. As regards American funding of Israel, American give's Egypt the same amount of funding per annum.
Unlike most people here I've been to the middle east on a number of occassions, I served there with UNIFIL in South Lebanon only last year and have seen boths sides of the conflict.

Bouncer

[BOUNCER]

A little more info..

Myths of the Middle East by Joseph Farah © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com

I've been quiet since Israel erupted in fighting spurred by disputes over the Temple Mount.

Until now, I haven't even bothered to say, "See, I told you so." But I can't resist any longer. I feel compelled to remind you of the column I wrote just a couple weeks before the latest uprising. Yeah, folks, I predicted it. That's OK. Hold your applause.

After all, I wish I had been wrong. More than 80 people have been killed since the current fighting in and around Jerusalem began. And for what?

If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians want a homeland and Muslims want control over sites they consider holy. Simple, right?

Well, as an Arab-American journalist who has spent some time in the Middle East dodging more than my share of rocks and mortar shells, I've got to tell you that these are just phony excuses for the rioting, trouble-making and land-grabbing. Isn't it interesting that prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, there was no serious movement for a Palestinian homeland?

"Well, Farah," you might say, "that was before the Israelis seized the West Bank and Old Jerusalem."

That's true. In the Six-Day War, Israel captured Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem. But they didn't capture these territories from Yasser Arafat. They captured them from Jordan's King Hussein. I can't help but wonder why all these Palestinians suddenly discovered their national identity after Israel won the war.

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem. Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites." Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth, fantasy, wishful thinking.

Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.

The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've been there.

Can you imagine what it is like for Jews to be threatened, stoned and physically kept out of the holiest site in Judaism? So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more chaos.

Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.

Shalom

Bouncer

[physio_sport]

bouncer aka bouncer your myths from the middle east thing is slightly wrong. this joseph ferah guy looks like the guy who is highly opionated and only skims through stuff. its true that mohammed(PBH) never visited isreal but the muslims belive in abraham as much as the jews do and we also belive in jesus(iserat isa). and i know im a muslim. muslims around the world away from the few countrys that hate isreal belive jew and muslims have equal right to the land.

he also say "There is no language known as Palestinian" so what thers also no lanuage known pakistani,american,australien etc..

also could you imagine having your house buldozed, not being able to walk down the street afraid of being shot.
im sick and tired and this one way system when a muslim dies no one gives a fuck and when a jew dies every one suddnley starts to care about isreal.
i want nobody to die, i care about both sides, at the end of the day where all people and we need to start behaving in a civilized manner.

[Zoolander]

I am with you on this physio.

But it is so very sad and frustrated to see it on the news and not be able to do anything about it.

Pray for peace and justice.

[BOUNCER]

Phy I'm in total agreement with you on seeing people die. I've seen both Israeli and Arab's die in Lebanon and believe me they all look the same. Indeed I've had comrades K.I.A. by both sides too, in 1988 I had 5 comrades killed, 3 by an landmine laid by Hezbollah fighters and two by IDF fire.
I'm happy to see you disagree with the Pal leadership, because although I'm a christian I've taken the time to read the Koran and realised after reading it how peacefull Islam and beautifull a religion Islam could be. But what can you do when awhole people are lead by gangsters.
As regards bulldozing of house's etc. In some circumtances I agree with it, I'm a soldier and so I see there's sometimes a tactical need to do it. When people say "Fuck the middle east" most they speak of Israel and the conflict there. That conflict has had it's waters so muddied now that it's impossible for us to debate it properly now. However I firmly believe in the state of Israel and I beleive in the strong stance Israel is taking in her defence of her state and people.
Phy I respect almost everyone, but I can honestly say I've almost ZERO respect for the Palestinian people given their actions over the years. People think it's only Israel the the PLO have terrorized, but they did it to the Lebanese people for almost forty years too. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978 (Operation Litani) they were welcomed into the country by a Lebanese population under seige from the PLO, they were almost tolerated in their 'security zone' in South Lebanon untill their invasion in 1982 (Operation peace for Galilee) when they entered Beirut for a second time the tides turned against them and the rest is history. Today there's an estimated 350,000 Pal refugee's in Lebanon, and the Lebanese authorities keep them in refuge camps in deplorable conditions.
I've seen Jews and Muslim live in peace together in the middle east, there's an old Jewish population living north of Beirut, and arabs living within the Israeli borders enjoy most of the same rights and laws as the Jewish population with the except of their 'right of return' laws. Israel doesn't have a constitution, but it's 'basic laws' inshrine the same rights to all it's people regardless of religion. Arabs can even (and do) serve in the IDF, 5 arab IDF soldiers were recently killed in fighting in Gaza.

Right this has been long winded enough, lol, and I'm getting a coffee.

Peace

[physio_sport]

the two real murders are yasar arafat and arial sheron.
we should stick them two in a ring and let them kick the shit out of each other. i hate yasar arafat i thing they should defenently bring a new leader in who would stop terrorism. they CLAIM to be muslims but what type of example are they setting sending children and women to do suacide bombings thats shameful. if i ever saw yasar arafat or his militants id shoot them in the head.

[BOUNCER]

GIVE ME FIVE MAN!.

But can I add, the Pals deserve Sharon. Because in 1999's general election in Israel, an Israel population hungry for peace voted in Ehud Barak who stood as a peacefull and moderate man. He promised to take his soldiers out of Lebanon within two years, he done it within his first two months as premier and promised to stop the resettlement of the dispupted terrorories. He done it all, plus brough Arafat to the peace table, he gave limited autominy to the Palestinian authories in The Gaza and The West bank. The Pals were onto a winner, the Sharon visited the Temple mound (which he had every right to do) and the present intifada erupted. But Ehud Barak tried through peavefull means to bring a peacefull settlement to the trouble, he couldn't achieve this because Pal gangster had 'hi-jacked' the moment. The Lakud party brought a vote of no confidence again Barak, he lost, an election was called and Sharon won. Simple, the deserve him, they feathered their nest now the can rest in it.

[palme]

Good read, im with you Bouncer.

[Rak_Ani]

I have nothing to do with this board. I'm not a body builder. In fact I'm just a 160cm tall girl who couldn't care less about body building and would probably not be here if a friend of mine didn't send me a link to this thread. I read it, and like most times, what can I say, I can't shut up. Not when it comes to this topic. I don't expect this post to have much effect. After all talking is fun, and we all want to sound smart, but my impression is that not too many people here really know what they're talking about, or at least not when it comes down to THIS subject.
So if anyone is interested, here are a few facts:

Palestine: Originally the name was "Falestinis". It was given to the land of Israel by the Romans after they exhiled the Jews. The Romans chose that name to "confuse" the Jews and make it hard for them to find home if they decide to try and return.
Read more about it here: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/meaning.html

The Palestinian people: I think the following quote says it pretty well. From the mouth of someone who was a PLO member (PLO is Arafat's organization):
"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian
identity serves only tactical purposes. The
founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool
in the continuing battle against Israel ... " -- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head
of the PLO and member of its Executive
Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977
Read more here:
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/mythology.html
The Palestinians aren't a "people". They never were until it became convenient for the Arabs. They don't have their own language, they don't have their own culture, they don't have their own money (the "palestinian money" is the Jordanian Dinar), and they never had or never wanted their own state until they layed their eyes on the miracles the Jews did with this deserted land.

A small correction about your post physio:

Israel:
- Not 100 nukes, but 200 nukes, none of which Israel can use. Why? because using them on the palestinians will be suicide. It will destroy Israel too.
- Yes, lots of bomber jets, and even better, the best pilots in the world (Ask the Americans where they send their best pilots for "improvements). But none of that is any good if every time Israel puts a plane up the world goes nuts and screams "excessive use of force".
- Spy sattelite....And that reminds me of something I wanted to show you. About the Jenin "Massacre" (give me a second to laugh. Thanks). Go to the IDF site, enter the English page, and take a look at the satelite pics of the "massacre".
- $7 million of military funding? That's all? I hoped it was more than that.
- Creators of the UZI. Sorry, but that one had me laughing. Let me tell you something about the Uzi. Besides being a back killer (small and heavy!), it's not any good for much else. When I had to walk around with an Uzi I cursed every minute of it, and when I gave it back the first thing I did was run for a massage. Besides, if the Uzi is so great and dangerous, why is it that most combat Israeli soldiers carry an American M16?
- Full blown army.....Of 18-21 year old boys who's mothers don't sleep at night, who have to put their lives on the line every single minute of the day and night, who have to put up with molotov cocktails, rocks, gunfire of terrorists hidding behind children, rodeside bombs, and who have no choice but being soldiers because that's the law and that's survival. If they won't do it, Israel will sieze to exist. How old are you Physio? Are you over 18? Remember what being 18 was like? Your horniest years, all you wanna do is date girls and party, and instead those boys have to deal with everyday attempts to end their lives and the lives of those they love.
- Tanks: Yea, the Merkava is pretty good.....Made in Israel :-)

- etc, etc, etc. I guess by that you mean the massive international pressure on Israel to "show restraint", the daily attacks on the Israeli citizens, the legitimacy the palestinians are getting from mainly Europe, which comes in many forms....Condemnations of Israel, huge amounts of money transfered to the Palestinians from the EU, foreign citizens entering warzones and interfering with the soldiers' work, and like you said, etc, etc, etc....

You forgot in your "Palestinians" description to add that
- The "few guns" are several tens of thousands (given to them by Israel).
- Road side bombs
- Gunmen who shoot kids in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, snipers who shoot babies, (etc, etc, etc)
- "Some money"....I think you mean "some massive amounts of money" from terrorist groups, arabic countries, the EU, and as sad as it sounds, from Israel too. (etc, etc, etc).
- MORTAR BOMBS
- car bombs
- a very developed intelligence
- co-operation of some Israeli citizen Arabs
etc
etc
etc

And to finish this off (not that I ran of things to say, but this is just getting too long and I don't even know if anyone will read this), the religious part:

1. Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran. Not even once. Don't believe it, check it out, and if you claim it does, tell me exactly where. Where does the world Jerusalem appear in the Koran?

2. Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times in the Bible.

3. The Koran specifically says that any matter that isn't clear, should be looked up in the Bible, and the Bible says Jerusalem is Jewish.


BTW, imagine you were thrown in jail for 50 years for something you didn't do, and after 50 years when you get out of jail and go back home you find a strange family living in your home. What would you do? The Jews offered to share that home with the strange family (although I'm pretty sure you'd just kick them out), but the strange family didn't wanna share. They wanted them out and started killing them. Would you agree to that? I doubt it. Why should the Jews agree to it then?

[Zoolander]

Originally posted by Rak_Ani

3. The Koran specifically says that any matter that isn't clear, should be looked up in the Bible, and the Bible says Jerusalem is Jewish.

As I had said in another thread.
Rak_Ani please do not put things which you are not too sure about in here.
Especially about the Koran or any other religion, cause You may unknowingly be stating blasphemy. Because in this case you are dead wrong.
hope you keep that in mind.
thank you

[Rak_Ani]

Zoolander,
Unfortunately for you I know a lot more than you wish I did. Take a look at the Koran, see I'm right.

[BOUNCER]

Zoolander I'd thread carefully here buddy, Rak_Ani appears alot more educated in Middle Eastern affairs than you, I and just about anyone else here is. I for one wouldn't be poking holes in Rak's arguement without very firm evidence against.

Bouncer

[mando]

bros all i beleive in is ,
'' do war to protect the weak and those who cannot defend their rights , women , children. at the time , no war justifies the death of an innocent person ''..........(teachings of the sikh religion)

[Zoolander]

I am not poking holes in her arguement.
I may not know what is happening there in the middle east apart from what I read on the net or news. Some of which may be true or false.
I may not know about the bible thus, i did not touch anything she had to say about it. But I do know about the Koran and thus That was what I was pointing out.
RAk Ani may be a professor on middle eastern conflicts for all I care but when I am certain about what she said was wrong I pointed it out.
Not picking any fights just stating the facts. I could state out the verses down here, but again this is an AR bb so I decided not to.
So again I so gently say please do not state something which you are not certain about.

Thank You.

[BOUNCER]

Well I've noidea about the bible, and very little about the Koran. Althought I did read the Koran about 10 years ago so I can't discuss either book, however I do know what I seen and experienced during my missions to Lebanon and my many man visits to Israel gave me a strong believe in Israel.
Reading what Rak_Ani has said I see someone who's just sick to death of the whole situation which the Palestinians have forced on her country. Palestinians have NEVER ruled over the land there, their traditionally nomadic people and have never had clearly definded borders etc. I have to agree with Rak_Ani, complete separation. Let them sink or swim. And see how many arab countries are willing to help them financially when reality hits home., and I mean long term financial help. I think what would eventually happen is either Iran or Syria would force political reform on the Palestinians as they've done in Lebanon and any Palestinan government would become a puppet government of either Iran or Syria.
As I've stated earlier their best hope was with Ehud Barak and they threw it all alway. Sad really.

Bouncer

[MilitiaGuy]

Sure we accidentally bombed a wedding but we're the U.S, we can do whatever the hell we want=====>fooboy no offense but u r sick ,very sick more than marlyn manson go see a doctor

[palme]

Originally posted by newbieguy
Sure we accidentally bombed a wedding but we're the U.S, we can do whatever the hell we want=====>fooboy no offense but u r sick ,very sick more than marlyn manson go see a doctor

Saying the USA can do whatever it wants is a very stupid comment. I think it´you that need to see a doctor.

[Rak_Ani]

Bouncer,
Speaking of Ehud Barak.....
Barak offered them everything. He was willing to give back all the territories, to give parts of Jerusalem.... He offered so much that the only reason Arafat had to refuse Barak's offer was the "right of return" which as everyone will agree would mean suicide for Israel. Arafat apparently had no intention of reaching an agreement in the first place and so he demanded something he has no leagal or historical right to demand. The result of his refusal was that the Palestinians went from a good economical situation, with a very successful and profitable casino in Jerico (for example), with bright future plans of joined economical projects with Israel....They went from being an Autonomy on it's way to statehood, an autonomy with it's own police, local governments, laws, etc....From that they went into being people with 80% unemployment (mostly because Israel doesn't let them work in Israel anymore), people with no food (those who really understand Arab politics will understand the significance of a demonstration of Arabs against their leader, and they did that several times about not having food).
So was giving up the right of return worth coming to the lowest line of poorness? Becoming hungry jobless people with 12 children none of which you can feed? And who's at fault for that? The Israeli government for not comitting suicide or the Palestinian leadership for not wanting enough to better the lives of their people?

[Ocnorb36]

Rak Ani and Bouncer, you both bring up valid points and obvious experience to your comments. Unfortunantly there will never be seperation or "joint tenancy" in Israel. Israel has tried both through peaceful means and force to try and co-exsist with the Philistines (lets call the people what they truly are for Palaestina is simply the name of the dirt on which they reside). Unfortunantly, anti-semitism cannot be purged from the blood of Arab leadership. You cannot and will not ever cut the roots of hatred from that area. Peace would only be temporary.

Arafat is 68 years old and probably beginning to suffer from the effects of being old. Soon he will cease to exsist and a political vacuum will be created. There is a legal line-of-succession mechanism replacing Arafat with Ahmed Qureia but he lacks to charisma and prestige of Arafat. The real successor probably would not emerge for years leaving any hope of peace in ashes.

Throw in the fact that all of Israel's neighbors quietly//and not so quietly support unrest in that region and you have only one solution: war. Ultimately, because of US oil dependancy, we, the US, must inevitably be involved in this turmoil. If you look at US history, Fooboy's post, although not eliquently stated, has some merit. The US looks out for the US. If we are in an area it is to protect US interests, period.

The pro-Israel stance the US seems to take is based on keeping our petroleum interests protected. We talk of attacking Iraq, which obviously is a pro-terrorist country, but verbally we reprehend Israel for retribution in the face of suicide attacks. We caution them not to take such harsh action (Jenin raid) yet we ourselves are willing to go to war to protect our country from terrorism. Why the double standard? We must keep our Arab neighbors at bay for self interest. We must play both sides.

The conflict is bigger than just Arab//Israel independance. It has turned into a major battleground for all the world. All of my comments are not meant to flame or bash any country or people. I love the USA and would die to protect her. All of my comments are my opinion only and are not axiomatic.

Just my .02

Oc

[BLOOD]

I hate humanity, I hate the whole fucking human race, but there's little that I can do. Religion doesn't help the idiocy of humanity either. I hate how we have to destroy each other needlessly. But alas, we are merely products of evolution, the human animal is so much more advanced, than the dumb beast it once was. The idealistic utopia is an impossibility, for a utopia is YOUR view of the perfect world. Hence everyone has a different idea of how it should be. And for it to be perfect, everyone would have to agree on the idealism. I'm sure many of you perceptive fellows can see holes in this logic, but it's how I see shit.

[Big Rush]

I'm ressurecting this post...very intesting, at least the latter part that is