Gays,TV,Transexuals are they freaks or just like us?

[Billy Boy]

Just wondered what your views where on this subject as something happened last night that got us thinking

At my MA class last night we had this new member turn up and they were called by a womens name.It became apparant straight away that something was amiss."Her" big Adams apple facial hair that had been removed and the defintive lack of breasts arose our suspsions.She hardly said a word all night and when she did it she sounded more like Al Pacino in the Godfather.

We discussed it after the lesson when she had left and the obvious things got said but a more interesting discussion arose from it like how must somebody like that feel emotionally and physically?Yeah sure she may have had a little more test flowing through her than the avg female but this was very unlikely.The chat went from having a laugh to actually feeling sorry for this person.How hard must it be to try and live a normal life?

My personal view is each to their own I have no problem with anybodys sexuality and don,t see who has the right to condone another persons sexuality.The one thing I do dislike is gay men who act all camp with it that really annoys me but otherwise I really don,t care what they are or what they do.

What are your views does it bother you? Would you go out of your way not to talk to someone if their sexuality was different to yours?

Keep the post serious guys we all know lesbians are OK

[Pete235]

Good topic Billy. It will be interesting to see where this goes. Personally I feel that humans are humans are humans. We all have the same basic needs...love, warmth, food , shelter, the rest is just gravy. I refuse to judge another based on their sexual preferance or how they feel comfortable dressing. IMO the root of predjudice is religion, that's not to say I feel religion is evil, it just means that it is in religious sermons where we are taught that homosexuality is a sin. How many times have I heard " Because the bible says...or the koran says". This will probably get heated as I'm sure there a lot of opinions out there, but it will be eye opening. BIG can of worms Billy my friend

P

[Billy Boy]

Everyone is entitled to their opinon and as long as they are kept within the normal constraints of replying to a post it will be an interesting topic.It is not intended to be a slagging post against anybody or anything and I want to make that really clear.There may be people reading these who are gay , TV or TS and it is not my wish for this post to offend anyone.So all I would ask is if you do reply think it out first and state your reasons for that opinon.

Pete I think you could be right bro - but it is a subject no-one actually talks about seriously but bro its a HUGE can of worms!!

[dumbells101]

There is no person on the planet that is not made in the image of the Creator. I believe we are all equal. Heterosexual or homosexual I am not the judge over anyones actions or preferences. I don't condone a homosexual lifestyle, but I am in no way going to judge that person simply because I believe their lifeslye is "sinfull". Quoting the scripture we are told to take the board out of our own eye before removing the spec of splinter out of our neighbors.

What kind of "Christian" example would I be if I judged and hated people who were different or didn't believe like I. I'd be no better off then some of our Arab brothers killing in the name of religion.

[partyboynyc]

don't feel sorry for the crossdressers at all.i would feel sorry for them if they were forced by society not to be able to live there life the way they want to.when they had those feelings about crossdresssing or changing genders at 12, that was probably a sad time in their life because there wasn't much they could do about it.now they are in touch w/ themselves and are not afraid to show who they are.i respect them for not conforming to society and living there life as it makes them feel comfortable.i think it takes courage to be able to do that and especially the postop ones who are now living as another gender.how does a person go about telling their family, friends, coworkers, possibly even children abotu the change they need to make?i admire them for being strong enough to do all that.i have a friend Miriam and for the first year i knew her i didn't even knwo she use to be a guy!!it was so weird she just told me at Life this old club one night.i was like wow i never knew and we talked about it.this was years ago.i can understand the trouble ignornace brings them from talking to them , but i couldn't imagine having to live like that.but to stop rambling, living in this city makes you realize that nothign is strange.you see it all here.i actually have a friend in north jersey who slept w/ a girl who was a guy at one time.i mean i think it's weird.i knwo i couldn't do it, but i don't have any bias toward anyone who changes gender or the people who care about them.cool topic BILLY IMO.sometimes when you see things like this first hand it makes you question yourself about how strong you are in your own securities.would any of us be strong enough to tell are families, friends, even GFS!!! if we wanted to make their decision?i knwo my family would be totally understanding, btu i like to wear the pants in the relationship,hahaha.okjust a little humor

[Billy Boy]

Hey PB I understand what you are saying and I respect the fact that these people have the guts to do it.I did,nt feel sorry for her as a person just the ignorance that is shown even my own ignorance I guess.I used to live next to a guy and he was gay,strange at first but he had his boyfriend and I had my girlfriend so it was no big deal really.He was a good bloke and my g/f got on really well with him as did I.

I guess if it is OK for the person doing it why should anyone else have a problem with it?

[partyboynyc]

you hit the nail on the head!we all have parts of our life that don't follow mainstream appeal.look at all of us, we're a small subculture ourselves.we are all into fitness,weightraining, some even gear.we are a small % of teh world even though we seem to be a large % because we associate w/ people who do what we do, but in the big picture, most of the world is sedentary.they may look at us like we are the freaks.thats' what i think you were gettign at in the title of your post.i accept people for who they are as an individual and how they treat myself and the people i care about.good to see you have an openmind about things.treat others as you would want to be treated.i think thats' the moral of your post.

[Billy Boy]

When I typed it there was no moral but I guess your right.It was just one of the guys called her a freak and a couple of us asked why,just wondered what you guys thought about the topic.I think if you are not open minded in todays world you are a very shallow person but hey thats JMO

[partyboynyc]

he probaly called the person a freak because he has no personal experience w/ it and has his own insecurities.it had nothing to do w/ the person he was mocking.people are afraid of what they know nothign about. ignorance and bias keep them from taking the time to understand.i couldn't tell you what it's like to be BILLY and you me, but if we took the time to learn we'd be better people for it and able to know each other better.it goes the same for any two people or any two groups.

[Pete235]

Originally posted by partyboynyc
we are all into fitness,weightraining, some even gear.we are a small % of teh world even though we seem to be a large % because we associate w/ people who do what we do, but in the big picture, most of the world is sedentary.they may look at us like we are the freaks.thats' what i think you were gettign at in the title of your post.i accept people for who they are as an individual and how they treat myself and the people i care about.

Good points PBNYC.

The only difference I see between our subculture and thiers is that we CHOSE ours. We chose to use gear, to push our bodies beyond pain barriers to get bigger and stronger. We don't care what lay folk think because this is how we chose to live our lives. Homosexuality is not a choice....it's who you are...it's how you were born. It's not a disease, it's not a sin and it's not a mental defect. JMO. I'm not implying that you feel any differently than me PBNYC...I just wanted to add to my earlier post.

Pete

[partyboynyc]

alot of people don't realize what you do about homosexuality.it's good to see you have a grasp on the subject.i knwo alot of my friends struggled to find people who were understanding and knew about it.i still have a friend who can't even tell his parents and it really upsets him.you can always trick the world into believing you are someone else, but never yourself.

[EXCESS]

I don't give a damn, except when it comes to sex, then its real ladies only.

[TNT]

I'm not sure that it's necessarily accurate to put gays, TV's (transvestites), and TS's (transsexuals) in the same sentence, let alone the same paragraph, since there have been studies done that indicate that TV's and TS's are not necessarily gay. Nonetheless, I applaud the discussion in this thread, which is a hell of a lot more intelligent than one usually finds on, um, a larger and more tasteless AS board that shall go unnamed, even though they like to think they're more, um, elite.

Anyway, my own take is to have no problem with someone who is gay; a preference for one's own sex is merely the difference between preferring chocolate over vanilla (or vice versa) - it's a matter of aesthetics, or what turns you on. (The only time it becomes problematic for me is when I'm cruised in a shower or steam room by someone who is too blatant and doesn't take a hint. However, I've found that most gay guys are cool if you simply say, "Not my scene, but thanks anyway, dude.")

Having said all that (okay, having pontificated all that), I have to admit that I do have a problem with the notion of transsexuality. Being gay doesn't involve, for lack of a better term, cutting it off. Preferring other guys (or women, for lesbians), is one thing, but the act of fully carrying out transsexuality has always impressed me as mutilation. In other words, if you're a guy and you prefer guys, then accept yourself and go for it. That has no impact on whether you can like yourself or hate yourself. But to want to actually change your gender surgically implies that you cannot accept yourself as you are in the first place. Granted, I do not approach it with the mind of the transsexual, but to me the bottom line is being able to accept yourself, regardless of what your sexual orientation is.

FWIW, when I was in junior high/middle school, there was a guy named Albert. In 9th grade, he was the hairiest SOB I had ever seen in the school, a good-looking guy, and one that the girls could go for - the hairy chest look of Sean Connery (in the 007 films) was popular at the time. I lost touch of Albert after school but ran into him several years later. Well, not really . . . He had become Abbie, and he had gone the whole route, right down to the sex change surgery. (Or is it more politically correct to say "gender change?") Abbie seemed happy and content, but there was still something weird about him. Um, her.

SImply put, there will always be some stigma to changing gender, even if it's only on the part of others. And I can't help thinking that Abbie couldn't accept himself in the first place. And in the end run, Albert/Abbie's decision doesn't concern me, since I wouldn't consider marrying him. Um, her.

As for transvestites, that's simply another thing I'll never understand. Several years ago, I was staying at a YMCA in a city we'll leave unnamed, except to say that it was not NYC. YMCA's have often gotten a bum rap, the stereotype (thanks to the Village People) being that only gay guys stayed there. In fact, many were oriented toward students, while others tended to get more alcoholics, burnout cases, and guys who had previously been in mental hospitals but were released through state hospital closures.

One night, I walked by a room in which the door was open and the resident was laying on his stomach in bed. (Yeah, guys, we know what he was looking for.) And I couldn't help but notice (whether I wanted to or not) that he was wearing a pair of pink women's panties. Obviously, this was someone who was somewhat of a transvestite, and someone who was gay (considering his position on the bed in a room with an open door). I didn't think anything about it (except to stifle a laugh), but I happened to see him again the next morning - in the shower of all places (where I also managed to stifle a laugh in light of what I had seen the night before). The thing that struck me in the morning is that the guy was ripped in a major way - I don't know whether he was juicing, but he was obviously doing some major weightlifting and was in great shape. He looked to be in his mid-20's, was a good looking guy by straight standards, and when we spoke (the usual "How's it going?") he sounded perfectly normal.

So what was his trip with the open room door and laying on his stomach? Alright, that's a rhetorical question, since the answer is obvious. But what about the pink women's underwear? Damned if I know.

The bottom line is that, whether we like it or not, we have to acknowledge that it's a diverse world out there. And if there's any opportunity for people to be kinky (or even perverse), someone will surely think of it, and someone else will join them in doing it. And they'll find no shortage of partners with whom to do it. And what we are left with is simply mastering the ability to accept ourselves, even if we are, for lack of a better term, normal.

Or, as Joan Rivers once put it, if it weren't for all the gay guys out there, there would be no one to staff Bloomingdales.

[partyboynyc]

i don't think anything of a guy dressing like a girl.it's purely an asthetic choice.do any of you guys have tatoos?tattoos were ways of marking slaves and i don't think any of you guys consider yourselves subserviant.like i say express yourself and screw what everyone else thinks.

[MarkyMark]

I will just state that there is only one Judge ......... and he will make any decision neccesary ......btw its not me ....hehe

[Billy Boy]

No the statement was are they viewed as freaks I never said they were all gay but TNT good story bro

MM if you don,t believe in God who is there to judge you then?

[Pete235]

Originally posted by TNT

(The only time it becomes problematic for me is when I'm cruised in a shower or steam room by someone who is too blatant and doesn't take a hint. However, I've found that most gay guys are cool if you simply say, "Not my scene, but thanks anyway, dude.")

Great post TNT and I agree 100% that it is great to be able to have an intellectual discussion about topics such as this without having to worry about it degenerating in to an immature pissing match consisting of homophobic slurs and ignorant biggoted statements. As you can see, we don't go fot that around here.

I chose this particular passage from your thread becuase I had one statement on one comment about it. The statement is... if/when this happens it is the exception...not the norm. Would you agree? And I wanted to comment on how women are subjected to this exact same behavior (being cruised) on a daily basis. They don't ask for it and it doesn't matter where they are or what thier wearing. Just some thoughts.

[Billy Boy]

I agree with you Pete but guys do get that as well from women.I get a lot of comments from the women in which I take as flirting and fun and I believe thats the way the women at work intend for them to be taken.I don,t have a problem with it they are not being personal but even so they could be classed as sexual discrimination.

A lot depends upon the people involved some males and females can flirt with each other and the same sex but it means nothing to them whilst others are deeply offended at it.

Women should,nt have to be subjected to leering at by us guys OK we all look as well as they do but there is nothing wrong in that.From my own experience I would say women are a lot more forward than guys think and women know what they want and are not subjected to the old rules of "Her indoors should have my tea on the table look after the kids and bonk when I want to"Times change and people should become more open minded to the new age of sexual freedom.

TNT your comments are valid I work with a gay guy and he is cool he hit on me once and I said nope got the wrong guy but its cool.We get on well have a laugh and to the avg guy on the street you would,nt know he is gay.He does,nt go out of his way to broadcast the fact that he is.I,m glad you feel it is a worthwhile topic to discuss and yes this is the way topics are discussed on here rather than certain boards!!

Some hetrosexual men have to boast about their past conquests in order to feel more of a man and prove their worth - funny a gay male or female would,nt do it maybe some of the straight guys have a problem with their own sexuality thats why they boast??

[TNT]

Re: Pete's comments above . . . It depends on the gym. I work out at a local gym where everyone seems to be cool - they're there to work out, period. There's some socializing, but not enough to interfere with the "main mission."

However, I maintain a membership at Bally's Total Fitness for when I'm on the road - it's dirt cheap to keep up, and gives me access to gyms - um, fitness clubs - anywhere. And I've found that Ballys with steam rooms that are off the locker room (single sex, as opposed to co-ed steam rooms in the pool area) sometimes tend to be very cruisy when it comes to gay guys.

There are a few dead giveaways on spotting this (and I didn't know how to spot it myself for several years - call it naivete) . . . First, when you're the only one in a steam room and someone else walks in. He could sit anywhere, but sits a little tooooo close to me. That's more than obvious, it's an invasion of my space. And straight guys have an inate sense of this and tend to avoid sitting too close in an otherwise empty room.

Second, if someone is sitting across the room, his eyes dart down to my crotch a little too often, while his hand darts down to his own crotch.

Finally, there are two general signs that a guy is cruising in the steam room. One is that he will go from the steam room to the showers and back again several times over a long period. Most of us hit the steam room or sauna once or twice, and that's it. For them, it's more of a hang-out. (Not to mention the guys who go to the club and immediately hit the steam room, never bothering to work out at all.)

So, in terms of the cruising, at some clubs it is the exception, while at others it i]is[/i] the norm. It is still in the minority in terms of total people who go to the club, but as a wise statistician once said, even if the incidence is miniscule, when it involves you it becomes 100%.

I certainly agree with Billy Boy in terms of male-female interaction. Women do notice guys as much as gay guys do, or even as much as guys notice women. They just seem to be less obnoxious about it. And straight guys are often obnoxious, feeling that women should want to boink them because the guy is God's gift to women.

We should also be reminded that there's a difference in group male behavior versus male-female behavior. In a group of guys, we may hear about women as mere sex objects, but you would hardly walk up to a woman and say, "Hi, wanna f*ck?" Likewise, a group of guys will usually behave more obnoxiously toward a woman than a single male would. And all that does is make the group of guys look like bigger jackasses. (That's not to say that a group of women together might not comment about guys the same way, but I don't see it nearly as often.)

One difference I perceive between being straight and gay is that if I were to want to have sex with a guy, it could be had on an immediate basis. Hell, there's always the ol' steam room, where not a word has to be spoken. (Once I passed a steam room on the way to the shower and two guys were in there doing it. I later said to one of them, "You know, dude, when you can see what's happening outside the room, others can see what's happening inside." He was cool, and will hopefully be a little more subtle in the future. But probably not.) On the other hand, if you want to have sex with a women, there usually has to be dinner and a movie involved (at the least).

Are straight people any less sexual than gay people? Of course not. But there are "social rituals" to be followed, and they dictate that anonymous sex generally does not occur between men and women. And, if it does, it's bound to be high risk - I wouldn't hop in bed with an anonymous woman or go to a straight sex club; IMO, either carries at least as high an HIV risk as anonymous gay sex.

Besides, while sex is a load of fun (so to speak), life is more than one big orgasm . . .

[Pete235]

Originally posted by TNT

Are straight people any less sexual than gay people? Of course not. But there are "social rituals" to be followed, and they dictate that anonymous sex generally does not occur between men and women. And, if it does, it's bound to be high risk - I wouldn't hop in bed with an anonymous woman or go to a straight sex club; IMO, either carries at least as high an HIV risk as anonymous gay sex.

Hey PBNYC...do you want to tell us one of your club stories again j/k bro.

TNT....very valid points...I'm glad you didn't take my points/comments as counterpoints but simply as general comments (the way they were intended). Billy....also good points. I think most of us agree on the main point of the thread and again I applaud all who responded for making this an intelligent discussion.

Pete

[partyboynyc]

i use to work out in an all gay NY Sports Club in chelsea in manhattan.for those who don't know, chelsea is the gayest part of manhattan, but i worked across the street from it so i went there.like i was saying before damn near half my friends are gay so it doesn't bother me at all.i took my sis for a day/night in chelsea w/ me and she was like damn.i get sexual comments made to me just walking down the street.it's like that there.my sis was like , i don't know how you put up w/ it.it's hard to explain to you how bad i get harassed,haha.do i like it?you know what?yeah i do!!it's great to have compliments from anyone IMO.doesn't make me gay.in this city, the gay men are very very VERY particular so getting hit on by gay guys here is more of a compliment than from girls!do i like it when they make vulgar comments?that's where i draw the line!!that is the exact reason i don't act that way toward girls.i knwo what it's like to get literally harassed and it's not comfortable.i could never hit on girls or act the way gay men act toward me at times.

[CYCLEON]

well, one thing Id llike to add to the mix is the fact that while the preferece for same gender sex may be innate (genetic via heredity or mutation), and this is by no means been proven or even adequately shown to be true (except for that old Kinsey study who was more of a pedophile himself) it is clear that "homosexual behavior" is a choice. Simply stated, an act of sex with the same or opposite geneder is a choice, else it is deemed rape. It would seem that actions are the difining statement of whether someone is indeed "gay" since indeed one may have a leaning but without the accompanying action, it would be difficult to describe that person as really gay, just as there are cross dressers who still have only strait sex.

To propose an argument, although it is not perfectly similar - you can be born with a chemical predisposition for alchoholism (via an ancestor usually). Yet if you only drink cokes, are you an alchoholic? No, nor is it necessarily so that you crave a drink that you have never had. Once you begin to drink however, the predisposition will be reinforced and the behavior will be more difficult to refrain from. But this is not to say that if this person now has 1 beer a week he is no longer able not to drink. Yet if this action of drinking receives continuous reinforcement and concomitant action, especially with a pre-existing chemical preference for it, it will eventually lead to that person becoming an alcoholic. Yet, even at that stage, it is not possible to say that that person is completely unable to stop drinking, tho it is now with enormous difficulty and emotional pain. It will also be more difficult to curb the desire for drink once it has been catered to, yet again, we know that it is indeed possible.

Your comments.

[partyboynyc]

i don't agree w/ it being a choice.i have a friend who tried to kill himself last year because he is so torn w/ the issue.he would would sleep w/ girls because he knew he was supossed to but he said it felt like equivalent to what would be goign through our heads if we had to sleep w/ a guy.he's really fucked up because of it.he doesn't want to be attracted to men but he can't help it.he seldom acts on it but he knows it's not the way it should be.

w/ the alcoholism thing, if that same guy were to drink excessive amounts of coke, he is exibiting signs of alcoholism. "the alcoholism gene"isn't strictly pinpointed at alcohol. the gene is just part of the chemical makeup that makes a person do anything to excess even though it it harmful, conflicts w/ daily rountine, or is just plain excessive to gratify them in some way. porno addicts, frequent masterbaters, junk food addicts, all fall into this category and have been found to have similiar genetic make up as alcoholics.they just call it the "alcoholic gene", but it is a poor name for a broad spectrum of people who exibit the same genetic makeup.i've had to do alot of research into this just because a few of my friends have really struggled w/ the whole not wanting to be gay but it's just how it is thing.

CYC, your points are all well taken and i am curious to see what other members think.good post CYC

[pvthndl]

First on the choice thing. Why would anyone 'choose' to be a member of a persecuted class? It's not like you get any great advantage by being gay - you don't live longer, get better jobs, etc - so what would the motivation be? I, for one, don't believe that someone chooses to be attracted to the same sex any more than someone chooses to be attracted to the opposite. I've talked with friends who are gay any they describe it as a feeling they have had since very, very early childhood.

Second, as far as someone being attracted to the same sex, but not acting on those feelings - what a shitty life. So that person doesn't get to have an intimate relationship, build a life with someone they love, potentially raise children, etc? Why would anyone consider living that kind of life, just to fit into societal norms?

And one last point, CYC, I wouldn't use the alcoholics analogy to anyone that's gay. It plain offensive to compare being gay to a known psychological disease (that went out in the 50's).

Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I'm just adding mine to the mix.

Interesting topic, and very enlightened conversation so far.

[Billy Boy]

Got to disagree with you Cyc I don,t think its a matter of choice yes its your choice to act upon those desires or emotions but if you are that way inclined I don,t think you can help it.How about people who are Bi are they just being greedy wanting sex with both genders?

Alcoholics can,t be compared to gays its a different ball game and I agree with PBNYC comments.

Good points though Cyc

[TNT]

This is a typical argument amongst those who like to debate things like, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" In the end run, the issue is not whether being gay is inate or acquired, nor whether one is gay merely by orientation or by active behavior. The issue is how the rest of us will interact with those who are different - will we live and let live, or will we be judgmental?

And, while I have seen Cyc put across some intelligent arguments (including this one, although I'm not sure it's on point to the original discussion), I question the notion that Kinsey was a pedophile. (In research terms, we would call such an allegation anecdotal.) Granted, Kinsey's research may have been skewed in terms of his having surveyed, in part, a population of male prisoners (in which homosexuality tends to be situational and environmental, with many men returning to heterosexuality once they are released), but the notion that he was doing his little tap-dance with kids seems a little off the wall. (Even if it were the case, that in itself would not skew his research.)

If anything, using Kinsey's sample, it would be appropriate to ask the question: If a prisoner in an all-male environment engages solely in sex with other men, is he necessarily gay? The research would seem to suggest not, especially if he returns to a straight lifestyle outside the institution. In short, the answer is just as much a no as it is for whether Partyboy's gay buddy who has slept with women - that does not necessarily make him straight. Nor does it make either person bisexual - our sexuality is an orientation, regardless of how it manifests in "behavior."

To reiterate the tone of this thread, I agree with the fact that it has, above all, been quite civil - a great change from our bro's over at Elite (where at least one "resident queen" acts like a beauty contest judge and brags about his conquests, real or imagined, more than most of the straight guys). One thing I have noticed, however, is that we have had no responses from anyone who is openly gay, which makes me wonder about the demographic make-up of this forum.

Now, if y'all will excuse me, I need to juice up and pump some iron - I'm not used to using words like anecdotal, skewed, research, and demographics. Makes me feel too damn intellectual. (Yeah, right . . .)

[pvthndl]

Well, I'm gay. I'm 38 and have lived with my partner for 11+ years now. I am proud of who I am, but who I am has little to do with the fact that I am gay. I don't broadcast that I am gay, not because I am ashamed of it, but because that's not how I act. Most people I meet casually never know. I have been 'out' at work for years even though I am an executive in a Fortune 500 company.

As far as the question of if gays are freaks, that's totally up to each of you to judge. I have met many people who are initially uncomfortable with my being gay, who eventually find out that I'm just like the rest of their male friends.

Again, I would like to say that this conversation has been very educated and respectful. The opinions expressed have been, generally, well explained. I can respect the fact that we all have our own beliefs about this, I just ask that you respect my right to have my own beliefs too.

[Billy Boy]

Hey bro you being gay meams shit to me I don,t care.As long as everyone is happy in life with their lot that,s all what counts.Like I originally said I don,t see how anybody has the right to judge anbody elses sexuality.

Be happy bro

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by Billy Boy
Just wondered what your views where on this subject as something happened last night that got us thinking

At my MA class last night we had this new member turn up and they were called by a womens name.It became apparant straight away that something was amiss."Her" big Adams apple facial hair that had been removed and the defintive lack of breasts arose our suspsions.She hardly said a word all night and when she did it she sounded more like Al Pacino in the Godfather.

We discussed it after the lesson when she had left and the obvious things got said but a more interesting discussion arose from it like how must somebody like that feel emotionally and physically?Yeah sure she may have had a little more test flowing through her than the avg female but this was very unlikely.The chat went from having a laugh to actually feeling sorry for this person.How hard must it be to try and live a normal life?

My personal view is each to their own I have no problem with anybodys sexuality and don,t see who has the right to condone another persons sexuality.The one thing I do dislike is gay men who act all camp with it that really annoys me but otherwise I really don,t care what they are or what they do.

What are your views does it bother you? Would you go out of your way not to talk to someone if their sexuality was different to yours?

Keep the post serious guys we all know lesbians are OK

Billy, thanks for bringing this thread back.

As a gay man, I would like you to know up front, most TRANSVESTITES are in fact straight, they get sexual satisfaction in dressing up in womens clothes. It's a way of being closer to their women. Most have families and usually only dress as women in the comfort and privacy of their home.

As a gay man, but not the queeny, faggy type, I have NO DESIRE to dress in womens clothes, or be in any way feminine, as I have found with most (if not all) of my friends. I just don't hang with those types. My partner and I are men, and we act like men, we enjoy male things (as in sports, porn, fixing cars, lifting, etc...).

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by Pete235


Good points PBNYC.

The only difference I see between our subculture and thiers is that we CHOSE ours. We chose to use gear, to push our bodies beyond pain barriers to get bigger and stronger. We don't care what lay folk think because this is how we chose to live our lives. Homosexuality is not a choice....it's who you are...it's how you were born. It's not a disease, it's not a sin and it's not a mental defect. JMO. I'm not implying that you feel any differently than me PBNYC...I just wanted to add to my earlier post.

Pete

Pete, thank goodness you understand.

Trust me guys, I did not choose to be gay, it was just who I am. I noticed I was "different" from other boys at 8 years old, when they were "ooohhh" ing and "ahhhhhh"ing over the playboy picture one of the boys had from his dads playboy, and when I looked at it, I just kinda got disgusted. Within a year (now we're talking 9 years old) I was interested in men's biceps, I was always looking at them, and tended to give more respect and wanted to meet the men who had the biggest ones I could find. And what's more is I wanted to fel them. I wasn't getting a hard on or anything, but my sexual attraction was already being stimulated.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by partyboynyc
alot of people don't realize what you do about homosexuality.it's good to see you have a grasp on the subject.i knwo alot of my friends struggled to find people who were understanding and knew about it.i still have a friend who can't even tell his parents and it really upsets him.you can always trick the world into believing you are someone else, but never yourself.

PBNYC,

I tried to even trick myself until I was 33 years old. It's real sad that I couldn't even be honest with myself for so long because of the way I was brought up (a conservative Southern Baptist). I went to psychatrist, I went through Bible classes...the gamit. I am who I am.....

[Billy Boy]

My partner and I are men, and we act like men, we enjoy male things (as in sports, porn, fixing cars, lifting

Why would,nt you enjoy doing those things theres no hard and fast rule saying only hetro,s are allowed to enjoy and particpate in them.

Good for you bro there,s too many people feel they have to "hide" their sexuality.I would,nt hide mine so why should you or anybody else have to just because it is different to mine?

As previous posts have stated we are all equal regardless of colour,gender,or sexuality.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by partyboynyc
i don't agree w/ it being a choice.i have a friend who tried to kill himself last year because he is so torn w/ the issue.he would would sleep w/ girls because he knew he was supossed to but he said it felt like equivalent to what would be goign through our heads if we had to sleep w/ a guy.he's really fucked up because of it.he doesn't want to be attracted to men but he can't help it.he seldom acts on it but he knows it's not the way it should be.

Trust me, it wasn't a choice with me. It may be with some folks, and I think those are people who are actually BI-SEXUAL. I have never REALLY wanted to have sex with a women, and did try it one time. It was a disaster, and I couldn't even get hard, as matter of fact it shrank in horror it seemed.

When I was a man in my 20's I tried to kill myself several times because of this, cried to God yelling "Why are you doing this to me?", "Why do you hate me God?".

It's tougher than many of you guys realize.

[bad_man]

I'm new to this board and I just have to say that I am extremely impressed with the intelligent and articulate discussions that I have read. I expected to get some good information on diet, training, and possibly AAS but to be honest I expected to get this info in monosyllabic, simple sentences. I guess just as you should not believe that every homosexual is a lisp-talking fairy looking to suck every dick in his viscinity, you should also not assume that every hardcore lifter is a low-forehead, lower-IQ musclehead.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by Billy Boy
Got to disagree with you Cyc I don,t think its a matter of choice yes its your choice to act upon those desires or emotions but if you are that way inclined I don,t think you can help it.How about people who are Bi are they just being greedy wanting sex with both genders?

Alcoholics can,t be compared to gays its a different ball game and I agree with PBNYC comments.

Good points though Cyc

Billy Boy, you are correct. It is insulting to equate being gay with being an alcoholic. Alcoholism is a disease and being gay is NOT a disease or mental condition. It is part of your being, it is who I am.

I can be gay and still live a heterosexual lifestyle. I know because my 1st lover had been married and the father of two kids (now both in college) before I met him. He told me he was always gay, with the only women he ever had sex with was his former wife, and he was engaging in gay affairs before marrying her. He married because his family and church pushed his to do so.

Eventually he had had enough and needed to experience living his life as who he needed to be.

By the way, there is a difference in being gay, and living a gay lifestyle, and engaging in homosexual sex. If I have to tell you the difference, then the point is moot.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by TNT
In short, the answer is just as much a no as it is for whether Partyboy's gay buddy who has slept with women - that does not necessarily make him straight. Nor does it make either person bisexual - our sexuality is an orientation, regardless of how it manifests in "behavior."

To give you guys an example of how recently my "gayness" manifestied itself. I bought the DVD of the movie "Moulin Rouge" last week and just watched it on Sunday. There are two main actors in the movie; Nicole Kidmann and Ewan McGregor.

Which one looks beautiful, sexy and caught my eye, and has made me go and look at several scenes in the movie more than once? I don't need anyone to tell me I am gay, I KNOW IT.

[SPEEDY]

lol.

I am extremely impressed by the range of arguments discussed in this thread. As for the genetic basis of sexual orientation, I am not certain. I don't agree that people have a choice, it is something that manifests itself from early childhood. To reiterate what has been stated by an astute member- [why would anyone want to be part of a discrimated group which no special treatments]. As to compare it to alcoholism, I think it is an absurd juxtaposition. Remember in genetics that genes do not determine behavior, they only strengthen or give predispositions. Also, many genes control distinct traits. (i.e. the color of your eye is not determined by one gene- there are several pigments deposited for example melanin and others, and a lack of any pigments or a mutation of all deposition leads to albinism in which your iris appears red because of blood capillaries) Sorry got carried away. But my point is that a mutation in one gene would not result in a specific behavior or trait. In other words there is no gay gene.
I have several gay friends, some of which wish they were never born they way they were. Here is a scary argument. One which I can say freely since I will not be judged here. I believe that there is no set boundary for sexuality. People are not completely this or that. There is no quantitative measure, instead a qualitative one in a convoluted spectrum. Also our society is changing rapidly to adjust to these new views and people today are more able to freely express themselves as we are doing here this very moment. What is wrong with saying I think that guy looks good as opposed to saying she looks good too. I am not saying that I would sleep with a guy. But instead, why should we be so afraid to say that someone looks good just becuase they are of the same sex?

This is my two cents worth...

[Billy Boy]

I am not saying that I would sleep with a guy. But instead, why should we be so afraid to say that someone looks good just becuase they are of the same sex?

Its a good point but I think most of the guys here look at other males I mean shit we have all done it look at the comments Big Kev got when he posted his pics!Does that mean we all want to sleep with him(No Offence here big guy!! ) but of course we don,t.

Just because you look at someone of the same sex does,nt mean you fancy them,you are merely acknowledging their physical attributes.The same as when you goto a BB show you are admiring their bodies and the hard work they have to put in to achieve it.We are all quick to annouce someone as an ugly mofo but we can,t say yeah he,s a good looking guy?

you should also not assume that every hardcore lifter is a low-forehead, lower-IQ musclehead.

On the wrong board if anyone is looking for people like that!!

[partyboynyc]

i loved moulin rouge!!!!hahaha.good to see this thread is still going w/ educated opinions