pasion of christ

**bulldawg_28** · 03-31-2008, 10:22 PM

Agreed 100%. If I wanted to see someone get beaten I'd watch some UFC.

Originally Posted by thetank

passion of the christ was so awesome. that part..where jesus is getting beaten? **** that was so cool..then later, in that other part...when jesus is getting beaten? that was great too..then like an hour and a 1/2 into it, when i was totally on the edge of my seat wondering what could possibly happen next..jesus got beaten. me and my family are actually having a passion of the christ marathon this sunday if anyone wants to join us...jesus is gonna be dying all day, should be fun. oh snap did i just spoil the ending?
sorry that was my excessive way of saying it sucked.

**qualityclrk1** · 04-01-2008, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by TheArtist

it makes about as much sense as the above posted picture....

the point i was trying to make

Originally Posted by Psychotron

You fail to see the sillyness in your retort. You proscribe that a complex entity existed before something simple? Now that makes zero sense.

make zero sense to you- may be completely fathomable to someone else....we don't know how we're here or why we're here...all we can do is come up with our own conclusions....

Science is actually what introduced me to believing in a God...before i ever took Anatomy i'd say i was agnostic....after learning alittle bit more about how the body and hows cells work and how PERFECT your body is ran and how our body tries to achieve complete homeostasis, it seems much more fathomable to me that it was made this way with a reason- and not just pure chance from a single cell....

**Psychotron** · 04-01-2008, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by qualityclrk1

and not just pure chance from a single cell....

evolution isnt random

**TheArtist** · 04-01-2008, 08:23 AM

i can see this thread going sideways real quick, however, science tends to show a bit more.... "proof" towards existance. Whereas, the bible provides no proof, or fact... just a story, about how we were "made" to exist.
now i'm not saying YOU are right or wrong, ya know, everyone has their own beliefs, and that's cool... but i fail to see the logic in putting all your eggs into the christianity basket, when it's just a collection of heresay stories. Yeah, you gotta have faith... but faith in an entity or being that no one has ever seen, or spoken to, or "heard"? I say "heard" because many people claim to have heard the "word of jesus" and so forth, but that's a bit different than actual, audible hearing....
blah, i could type all day but what's the point?
You're entitled to your opinion and that's good enough for me

**alphaman** · 04-01-2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Psychotron

actually, there is little if zero historic evidence for Christ ever physically existing, the earliest apologists for Christianity viewed Christ in the gnostic tradition in that he died and was resurrected on a different plane of existence, never here on Earth.

You couldn't be more wrong. The Apostles were the first apologists... they were not gnostic and they not only believed that Jesus physically existed, as they were witnesses of his physical person, but they were also witnesses of his death and resurrection. Every one of them died a gruesome, painful death in the name of his resurrection, and not one of them ever changed their tune. No matter what they faced.

**Psychotron** · 04-01-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by alphaman

You couldn't be more wrong. The Apostles were the first apologists... they were not gnostic and they not only believed that Jesus physically existed, as they were witnesses of his physical person, but they were also witnesses of his death and resurrection. Every one of them died a gruesome, painful death in the name of his resurrection, and not one of them ever changed their tune. No matter what they faced.

lol I didn't say apostles, I said Paul was a gnostic, and you need to re-read your Bible because Paul never physically saw Jesus, it was in a vision.

**alphaman** · 04-02-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Psychotron

lol I didn't say apostles, I said Paul was a gnostic, and you need to re-read your Bible because Paul never physically saw Jesus, it was in a vision.

What? I didn't see you say anything about Paul, or I certainly would have addressed that. Why speak of something you know nothing about, as though you are an expert? Stick to what you know.

Why don't you "re-read" this? (if you've ever read it, that is) The APOSTLE Paul wrote it. After you read it, could you explain to me how he didn't believe in Christ's physical existence?

1 Corinthians 15

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

**Psychotron** · 04-02-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by alphaman

What? I didn't see you say anything about Paul, or I certainly would have addressed that.

Correct you are, i thought i said Paul.

Why speak of something you know nothing about, as though you are an expert?

I know a lot more than you think. Just because I don't hold to your silly belief now doesn't mean I wasn't once drenched in it.

Why don't you "re-read" this? (if you've ever read it, that is) The APOSTLE Paul wrote it. After you read it, could you explain to me how he didn't believe in Christ's physical existence?

As for this, I will get back to you, one handed typing is slow, I recall this being brought up in a prior discussion, I need to find notes. I do remember there being a problem with the accuracy of this verse, something about how it doesn't appear in early manuscripts. The entire verse seems odd... "Why would the equation of this divine Savior with the recent Jesus of Nazareth not be a necessary and natural part of at least some of the faith declarations or even simple arguments and discussions we find in all the first century epistles? It is notably missing in 1 Corinthians 1:18f, where Paul is defending God's wisdom and the apparent folly of Christian doctrine, yet he feels no necessity to include a defence of the folly that a human being has been elevated to divinity."

**alphaman** · 04-02-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Psychotron

Correct you are, i thought i said Paul.

I know a lot more than you think. Just because I don't hold to your silly belief now doesn't mean I wasn't once drenched in it.

You can belive that my belief is silly if you want, but you haven't given any evidence of it being false. So in order for your accusation to be taken seriously, you will need to present a case. Empty statements mean nothing.

As for this, I will get back to you, one handed typing is slow, I recall this being brought up in a prior discussion, I need to find notes. I do remember there being a problem with the accuracy of this verse, something about how it doesn't appear in early manuscripts. The entire verse seems odd... "Why would the equation of this divine Savior with the recent Jesus of Nazareth not be a necessary and natural part of at least some of the faith declarations or even simple arguments and discussions we find in all the first century epistles? It is notably missing in 1 Corinthians 1:18f, where Paul is defending God's wisdom and the apparent folly of Christian doctrine, yet he feels no necessity to include a defence of the folly that a human being has been elevated to divinity."

Is the bold your "getting back to me"?

First, who said this? Can I get a reference?

Second, I didn't quote the 18th verse.

Third, it will certainly not stand on it's own. If it's in the context of saying that the physical Jesus didn't equate to the spiritual savior that's spoken of in the NT.... that's absolutely preposterous. I could fill up three pages with scripture references on that... that's the main message in the NT, and if you've ever been "drenched" in it, you know that as well.

**Psychotron** · 04-02-2008, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by alphaman

You can belive that my belief is silly if you want, but you haven't given any evidence of it being false. So in order for your accusation to be taken seriously, you will need to present a case. Empty statements mean nothing.

Is the bold your "getting back to me"?

I am not going to lay down all the evidence for why such a belief is not rational, or why at the very least why the entire Bible is the worst piece of shit ever written. Even if it is the word of God, I can write something better than it.

Not so much a getting back to you as it was a note on the context of that. The entire "theory", and I will admit it is a theory, behind Paul having not known a physical Jesus existing in the human form is that when the case presents itself for him to use the life of Jesus as an example he doesn't, rather he uses the parallel that Jesus' life follows from the old testament. Read the book the Jesus Puzzle if you want to understand that quote, I don't remember what page it came from.

**alphaman** · 04-02-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Psychotron

I am not going to lay down all the evidence for why such a belief is not rational, or why at the very least why the entire Bible is the worst piece of shit ever written. Even if it is the word of God, I can write something better than it.

Yet another empty statement. You are getting angry. Why? I am only confronting the sweeping statements you are making. This thread will probably get locked, but if you want to lay out in a logical, calculated manner why such a belief doesn't make sense, then I will respond with logic as I have up until this point.... but something tells me you won't repspond in that way...

Not so much a getting back to you as it was a note on the context of that. The entire "theory", and I will admit it is a theory, behind Paul having not known a physical Jesus existing in the human form is that when the case presents itself for him to use the life of Jesus as an example he doesn't, rather he uses the parallel that Jesus' life follows from the old testament. Read the book the Jesus Puzzle if you want to understand that quote, I don't remember what page it came from.

Paul surely referenced the physical life of Jesus. You should consider the crap you read before you call the Bible a piece of crap. To say you could write something better is a ridiculous statement. If you want to make such bold statements as you have, you should probably think a bit more before you type.

As to Paul referencing Jesus' physical life...

Paul made specific claims that Jesus had a physical birth (Gal. 4:4); was an Israelite (Rom. 9:5; Gal. 3:16); was of the tribe of David (Rom. 1:3); had a brother by the name of James (Gal. 1:19); was poor (2 Cor. 8:9); ministered among the Jews (Rom. 15:8); had twelve disciples (1 Cor. 15:5); instituted a memorial supper for His disciples (1 Cor. 11:23–27); was crucified, buried, and rose again; and was seen by a great number of people after His physical resurrection (1 Cor. 1:23; 15:4–8; 2 Cor. 13:4; Gal. 3:1, 13).

**Psychotron** · 04-02-2008, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by alphaman

Yet another empty statement. You are getting angry. Why? I am only confronting the sweeping statements you are making. This thread will probably get locked, but if you want to lay out in a logical, calculated manner why such a belief doesn't make sense, then I will respond with logic as I have up until this point.... but something tells me you won't repspond in that way...

No anger towards you friend, anger towards the entire belief system.

I have grown tired of writing such responses, so I am not going to. There are countless books and websites that lay out rational reasons. It's not up to me to proove your belief false, but rather up the claim maker to proove it true.

Either way, I am going to bow out of this. I don't have any such desire for an argument, and I generally try to avoid them. No one gets anywhere.

**BabyGravy** · 04-03-2008, 01:07 AM

you know what? they way i see it, there is no harm in believing in something, put your whole heart into it and accept Jesus as your saviour and when you die one day and there is no such thing as heaven.... well then at least you lived life the right way and gave it a shot. but if you die and there is a heaven

then AMEN brother... you Da man and you'll be da man for eternity, while all the non believers are burning in hell

**Odpierdol_sie!** · 04-03-2008, 07:31 AM

If God is real and all that, then why is there such hurting in the world? Famine desiese, war, hatred etc.... i thought he was meant to be a nice chap... the way hes running the world makes me think hes a cvnt to be honest.

**nowdenlid** · 04-03-2008, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Odpierdol_sie!

If God is real and all that, then why is there such hurting in the world? Famine desiese, war, hatred etc.... i thought he was meant to be a nice chap... the way hes running the world makes me think hes a cvnt to be honest.

lmfao

**unclemoney** · 04-03-2008, 07:50 AM

if you guys wished to actually know the truth behind such things and no I'm not a christian hear speaking or no other "labels" have I placed on myself but check out my thread I made in this forum which I believed I mislabled however I wish for people to check it out for what I have typed is extremely great speculations and theories and I would love to hear feedback, comments, and whatever else... SO TAKE A GANDER!