The big bail out

[BOOST]

I think it is total bullshit, this makes more sense.

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to all Americans as a "Dividend".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals to a hefty "$425,000.00"

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "Dividend" Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 Billion right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife have $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - "housing crisis solved"
Repay college loans - "a great boost to new grads"
Put away money for college - "it'll be there"
Save it in a bank - "create money to loan to entrepreneurs"
Buy a new car - "create jobs"
Invest in the market - "capital drives growth"
Pay for your parent's medical insurance =E 2 "health care improves"

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company. If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+

As for AIG - liquidate it and Sell off its parts.
Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's the rationale. We deserve it and "AIG doesn't" we were not invited to the last 10 years of "party time" bonuses.

And remember, The this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

[gixxerboy1]

unfortanitly we dont have the money for either. But i like your plan alot more.

[Amorphic]

nice. too bad all the government is concerned with is the elite and their money.

scary times ahead

[BG]

Your a genius. I like the way you think, I would even go on the books after that one.

[KingTenderloin]

Yeah i like ur idea too lol....but whos gonna lend people money to buy a house or w.e if these companies go under?

[BOOST]

Yeah i like ur idea too lol....but whos gonna lend people money to buy a house or w.e if these companies go under?

Trust me for the 10 to fall, there will be 20 more behind them to pick up the ball.

[MR_T]

yeah I wonder how much of this bail out will actually go to help the home owners... I say cut out the middle man and give this money to the people who got screwed out of their homes

[JiGGaMaN]

Its a good idea except for the following:
1. 85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425
2. Why would the government tax itself?

Game over.

[stpete]

I think it is total bullshit, this makes more sense.

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to all Americans as a "Dividend".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals to a hefty "$425,000.00"

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "Dividend" Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 Billion right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife have $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - "housing crisis solved"
Repay college loans - "a great boost to new grads"
Put away money for college - "it'll be there"
Save it in a bank - "create money to loan to entrepreneurs"
Buy a new car - "create jobs"
Invest in the market - "capital drives growth"
Pay for your parent's medical insurance =E 2 "health care improves"

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company. If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+

As for AIG - liquidate it and Sell off its parts.
Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's the rationale. We deserve it and "AIG doesn't" we were not invited to the last 10 years of "party time" bonuses.

And remember, The this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Weird. I heard my boss telling a vendor today the same exact thing.

[RuhlFreak55]

that "bailout" isn't paid in full i don't believe.....they're backing all the securities so that if failures occur the recipients still get their money.....and obviously not all of the policies will be collected all at once......it's just in theory if they were to that would be the 85 billion

[daem]

Trust me on this one, regardless of whether or not the bailout will ultimately work, if you ever want to be able to get a loan in the next 15 years, this is necessary.

I have an ex-gf who works at Goldman and I spoke with her for a good long while this weekend about what is really going on here.

Unfortunately, the little guy loses either way here, but the result of a bailout and the subsequent increased regulation is a benefit to all of us that still have 45+ years to live.

[RuhlFreak55]

Trust me on this one, regardless of whether or not the bailout will ultimately work, if you ever want to be able to get a loan in the next 15 years, this is necessary.

I have an ex-gf who works at Goldman and I spoke with her for a good long while this weekend about what is really going on here.

Unfortunately, the little guy loses either way here, but the result of a bailout and the subsequent increased regulation is a benefit to all of us that still have 45+ years to live.

well i don't think increased regulation is ever beneficial....but whateva....i know our financial system would literally be in ruins right now if this wasn't being done

[JiGGaMaN]

well i don't think increased regulation is ever beneficial...

Thats the dumbest thing I've heard since the last time i said that in response to one of your genius posts.

[nhl1]

All I can say is, I want to do things to this government and its officials that just speaking about it on a public forum could get me locked away for life.

DIE US government. I hope you all burn in flames. Its time to push the reset but on the us constitution. In case anyone forgot, it starts with

WE THE PEOPLE.

[mex83]

Its all a cycle people... the US government is writing history all over again. First comes bad economy, then comes great depression, then to "restart" and start from new (financial wise) here comes a war WW III then after that the US gets back on its feet and so on so on so on.... its all just a cycle.

[redz]

Its a good idea except for the following:
1. 85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425
2. Why would the government tax itself?

Game over.

I was going to say the math was no good at all! This is definitely correct $425 per head would do jack ......

[bigt10]

Who says we dont have the money.

A dollar is a piece of paper anyone with a brain is realizing they are creating this money.

Welcome to socialism.

Now a organization ( federal reserve) WHICH PRINTS MONEY just bought an organization.

Unfortunately Bazooka Hank and Comrade Bernanke have their weapons pointed at anyone holding dollars.

haha tax are you joking, this plan just ensures it will destory the purchasing plan of your dollar.

I have never been happier though, a gold standard is so close i can almost smell it. The day the world rejects the dollar will be the day the government has no more power.

That day is coming soon the dollar has had its run as the worlds reserve currency.

The only thing that concerns me is we have the biggest military ever. That's what really scares me, especially with the events about to unfold.

This is why the dollar isnt backed by gold. The government wants to make sure when you go to the ATM the dollars will come out. They can ensure that but all they can ensure is that your dollars are going to lose thier value.

[bigt10]

Its all a cycle people... the US government is writing history all over again. First comes bad economy, then comes great depression, then to "restart" and start from new (financial wise) here comes a war WW III then after that the US gets back on its feet and so on so on so on.... its all just a cycle.

are you nuts, this is so much worse then before. And the worse part is there is nothing to restrict them and we also have the most powerful military.

When the biggest banks and financial institutions are failing there is a major problem.

All the banks should fail. people dont realize that banks only have 10 % of the actual money on reserve the rest is loaned out on hopes it will pay it back. Banks make money by loaning out money they dont have and by earning perpetual interest they dont have.

This is a case where the cure is so much worse then the disease.

[daem]

Who says we dont have the money.

A dollar is a piece of paper anyone with a brain is realizing they are creating this money.

Welcome to socialism.

Now a organization ( federal reserve) WHICH PRINTS MONEY just bought an organization.

Unfortunately Bazooka Hank and Comrade Bernanke have their weapons pointed at anyone holding dollars.

haha tax are you joking, this plan just ensures it will destory the purchasing plan of your dollar.

I have never been happier though, a gold standard is so close i can almost smell it. The day the world rejects the dollar will be the day the government has no more power.

That day is coming soon the dollar has had its run as the worlds reserve currency.

The only thing that concerns me is we have the biggest military ever. That's what really scares me, especially with the events about to unfold.

This is why the dollar isnt backed by gold. The government wants to make sure when you go to the ATM the dollars will come out. They can ensure that but all they can ensure is that your dollars are going to lose thier value.

Two things:

1. There isn't enough gold (even in the ground) to back all the dollars that are in circulation and still meet global demand. If we went to a gold standard, an exorbitant amount of leverage would instantly be created over our currency and country. If you think the Middle Eastern countries have leverage over us now with oil, wait until gold has more meaning than a fancy, shiny precious metal.

2. The world will not REJECT the dollar outright because the Eurodollar trade is far too lucrative for foreign investors and governments. Treasury bills and other instruments are on the books of so many governments in such a large volume that it would be a disaster if the dollar collapsed completely. The rest of the world wants the dollar to stay afloat because it means they stand to benefit from the interest we pay for them with MORE dollars to own our debts. A majority of the world's wealth is concentrated in dollars, and you can't disrupt that without deflating a substantial amount of currencies around the world.

[RuhlFreak55]

Thats the dumbest thing I've heard since the last time i said that in response to one of your genius posts.

once again my DEGREE IS IN ECONOMICS YOU MORON. I know what i'm talking about and i don't believe that the FREE market is supposed to be regulated....let those that take the wrong risks lose their ass like they're supposed to

[daem]

once again my DEGREE IS IN ECONOMICS YOU MORON. I know what i'm talking about and i don't believe that the FREE market is supposed to be regulated....let those that take the wrong risks lose their ass like they're supposed to

Think of the mess we are in akin to cancer.

In order to preserve the body, we need to have some aggressive chemo (like this bailout) to wipe out the cancer that is dispersed throughout the entire system.

Without the chemo, the body will succumb to the cancer and perish.

We can point the finger and place blame later, but this is NECESSARY to keep going.

I think what was done with AIG should be done to Goldman, JP Morgan, and any other institution that will stand to get a clean slate from the government intervention. 80% equity stake with tons of warrants in exchange for the purchase of the bad instruments.

[Sir Lifts-a-lot]

America is in trouble. I smell the general public revolting. It is going to get scary out there. No one, and I mean NO ONE is going to have any money. Banks are going to go under. All our money will be worthless. We are witnessing the collapse of our country. We have stretched ourselves to thin and we are now destroying it from the inside out. The government is going to be overthrown and Marshall Law is going to reign supreme. I am truthfully scared.

[bigt10]

Ya but the rest of the world is going to figure out all the dollars they loan us are never going to be paid back.

Sure if our dollar was tied to something but the government keeps creating more dollars making your savings worth shit.

They cant keep the music playing forever.

No banks should be bailed out, people need to look at these insitutions as a whole. This bubble was casued a long time ago by greenspan trying to avoid a recession back in 2001 and all this new money ended up in the system. What we really need is a sound money and currency.

All those insitutions should fail. They made bad choices. Maybee people should begin to realize how corrupt and morally wrong fractional reserve banking is.

Secondly the federal reserve has no business telling us what the interest rate is. In a free market that would set interest rates they would come from savings. Since we lack savings interest rates would be high.

Setting interest rates to low causes all the bad investments that eventually will prove to be wasteful and must be liquidated.

Our people that stupid they thought their properties would increase in value forever?

Lok at that something chiller index. it went up 50 % from 2000-2006 before that rarely changed.

[daem]

America is in trouble. I smell the general public revolting. It is going to get scary out there. No one, and I mean NO ONE is going to have any money. Banks are going to go under. All our money will be worthless. We are witnessing the collapse of our country. We have stretched ourselves to thin and we are now destroying it from the inside out. The government is going to be overthrown and Marshall Law is going to reign supreme. I am truthfully scared.

That isn't going to happen.

We have something in the neighborhood of 10 trillion in debt as a country, so this proposed bailout is roughly 7% of that.

How could our currency suddenly implode more than 7%?

If it did, there would be an insane arbitrage opportunity for foreign investors, and it would immediately correct itself with normal trading / hedging.

[RuhlFreak55]

Think of the mess we are in akin to cancer.

In order to preserve the body, we need to have some aggressive chemo (like this bailout) to wipe out the cancer that is dispersed throughout the entire system.

Without the chemo, the body will succumb to the cancer and perish.

We can point the finger and place blame later, but this is NECESSARY to keep going.

I think what was done with AIG should be done to Goldman, JP Morgan, and any other institution that will stand to get a clean slate from the government intervention. 80% equity stake with tons of warrants in exchange for the purchase of the bad instruments.

i'm against insano regulation not the bailout.....

[FallenWyvern]

That isn't going to happen.

We have something in the neighborhood of 10 trillion in debt as a country, so this proposed bailout is roughly 7% of that.

How could our currency suddenly implode more than 7%?

If it did, there would be an insane arbitrage opportunity for foreign investors, and it would immediately correct itself with normal trading / hedging.

You forgot to calculate the contraction of money in circulation by the banks when they all stopping lending money. I am gonna guess that this is wash as far as inflation goes.

Fed reserve isn't the only ones that can print money. What do you think banks do when they take in $1 and lend out $2.

[FallenWyvern]

Ya but the rest of the world is going to figure out all the dollars they loan us are never going to be paid back.

Sure if our dollar was tied to something but the government keeps creating more dollars making your savings worth shit.

They cant keep the music playing forever.

No banks should be bailed out, people need to look at these insitutions as a whole. This bubble was casued a long time ago by greenspan trying to avoid a recession back in 2001 and all this new money ended up in the system. What we really need is a sound money and currency.

All those insitutions should fail. They made bad choices. Maybee people should begin to realize how corrupt and morally wrong fractional reserve banking is.

Secondly the federal reserve has no business telling us what the interest rate is. In a free market that would set interest rates they would come from savings. Since we lack savings interest rates would be high.

Setting interest rates to low causes all the bad investments that eventually will prove to be wasteful and must be liquidated.

Our people that stupid they thought their properties would increase in value forever?

Lok at that something chiller index. it went up 50 % from 2000-2006 before that rarely changed.

How much do you think your house is worth if everyone has to pay cash for it?

How much do you think stuff at Home Depot is going to cost if they can't get a 30 day loan to float their inventory?

Bad banks need to go bankrupt right now, nobody wants all of them to go bankrupt.

Greenspan and the dems, who allowed FNMA and FRE to lend money to everyone, are clearly to blame.

Welcome to Socialism everyone! Socialism created this and now we have socialism to fix it. Bah!

On the other hand if I could borrow money at 3.5% - 4.5%, I would buy my neighbors mortgage for .30 cents on the dollar.

[smokeyd]

if they gave every american that much money, i think the dollar would plumit even further in value,

[warchild]

time will tell, but i think its going to get worse before it gets better. home values will fall and foreclosures will increase along with food, fuel, everything else. thank god my house/car are paid off and I have some money in the bank and a secure job.i invest in the market but considering stopping for awhile and putting that money towards a foreclosure

[FallenWyvern]

time will tell, but i think its going to get worse before it gets better. home values will fall and foreclosures will increase along with food, fuel, everything else. thank god my house/car are paid off and I have some money in the bank and a secure job.i invest in the market but considering stopping for awhile and putting that money towards a foreclosure

I plan on getting several.

[smokeyd]

o yeah houses are the way to go unless your warren buffet and can invest 5 bil in a company, i mean hell what company isnt going to do good when someone buys into them for 5 billion dollars

[warchild]

I plan on getting several.

what part of the country are you in?

[Coop77]

[smokeyd]

^^ nice lol

[warchild]

haahahhahaahaha

[FallenWyvern]

That's funny.

[JiGGaMaN]

once again my DEGREE IS IN ECONOMICS YOU MORON. I know what i'm talking about and i don't believe that the FREE market is supposed to be regulated....let those that take the wrong risks lose their ass like they're supposed to

Really? I have a background in economics as well, no degree though.

[warchild]

guys behave

[thegodfather]

Thats the dumbest thing I've heard since the last time i said that in response to one of your genius posts.

Really? I think Socialism is pretty dumb, and thats what you're advocating. Regulations are a Socialist/Big Government/Liberal Democratic idea. It's proven time, and time, and time.............and time again that it causes more harm than good. No one alive today has lived in the United States when a truely deregulated free market economy was in place. What have we seen as the result in the last 100 years (since 1913 )? A plethora of boom&bust cycles in the economy. These are caused by the artificial manipulation of the economy, particularly due to bad legislation but mostly the fault of the Federal reserve.

What I find REALLY encouraging about this whole situation is this...Two years ago, most people thought the Federal Reserve was owned/operated by the US government, and now they know the truth. Two years ago, the majority of US citizens had no idea how the artificial manipulation of interest rates and dollar supply worked and effected them, and now they do. Two years ago, someone like Ron Paul would never be given a second look for his opinion on the economy, and now he's on CNN and FoxNews regularly for his insight on the economic situation in this country. That's a success.

[warchild]

Ron Paul has/will always have my vote. Its too bad there is an "old mentality" and people aren't ready for a change/*********.