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  1. #1
    Deltasaurus's Avatar
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    Who Trains Using Hit? or do u use Volume?

    Just wanted opinions i have never used hit but am considering trying it, im am accustumed to volume training at the present time. Just want to know others thoughts and experiences.


    -AJ

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    Have a buddy that swears by it and doesn't spend hours upon hours in the gym, he gets in "hits" it up and rolls out.

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    Deltasaurus's Avatar
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    intersting anyone else?

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    My cousin is an amateur bodybuilder (has won numerous state and national titles) and he swears by HIT. He calls it "dorian yates and mike mentzer love child kind of training". He's a beast, but obviously with any style of training, diet is the number 1 factor to success.

    It's funny you mention HIT, because in the past few days I've been watching Mike Mentzer's HIT bodybuilding videos on youtube and it's got me very intrigued as well. However, it's not for everyone. People's definition of "high-intensity" also varies greatly.

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    I respond much better to HIT than I do HVT. I usually only hit 3-6 working sets per bodypart per week.

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    Deltasaurus's Avatar
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    Guess ill have to experiment is this a good Def of HIT:
    Thorough warm up, Then Only 1 Actual set per exercise of maximum weight and intensity for reps between 5-12

    2-3 exercises for Bi's Tri's
    4-6 exercises for Chest, Back?
    7-9 exercises for Legs
    5-6 exercises for shoulders???

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    ^^^bump

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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    Guess ill have to experiment is this a good Def of HIT:
    Thorough warm up, Then Only 1 Actual set per exercise of maximum weight and intensity for reps between 5-12

    2-3 exercises for Bi's Tri's
    4-6 exercises for Chest, Back?
    7-9 exercises for Legs
    5-6 exercises for shoulders???
    Yup.

    Watch blood and guts.

    Some do less.

    Forced reps, negatives and rest pause are your best friends, then comes drops sets and supersets.

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    I didnt see any of that on blood and guts just 1 Burly set and a couple helped reps i didnt see forced negatives or rest pause

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    I did it today and I'm in love. Just off doing the smith incline I was more pumped/hurtin then during a regular workout of mine. Four seconds down and about 3 seconds back up. I will explain more in my log a little later gotta a family bday to attend. I'm sure there may be flaws the way I went about it as I'm not going to sit here and say I know everything but I went about it and like Swifto said negatives, forced reps are the SHIT!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    I didnt see any of that on blood and guts just 1 Burly set and a couple helped reps i didnt see forced negatives or rest pause
    There are lots of forced reps and I think there are some drop sets for chest in the beginning.

    Negatives are in there too I'm sure.

    Also watch Mark Dugdale in the Dungeon, with Dorian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    I did it today and I'm in love. Just off doing the smith incline I was more pumped/hurtin then during a regular workout of mine. Four seconds down and about 3 seconds back up. I will explain more in my log a little later gotta a family bday to attend. I'm sure there may be flaws the way I went about it as I'm not going to sit here and say I know everything but I went about it and like Swifto said negatives, forced reps are the SHIT!!!!!
    The pumps are massive when I use negatives.

    I also like drop sets, but recently RR told me that one should always use the most weight possible for muscle memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
    The pumps are massive when I use negatives.

    I also like drop sets, but recently RR told me that one should always use the most weight possible for muscle memory.
    Man well there is one flaw. As I was dropping setting cause I thought if I was truly going to FAILURE then I should not be able to do the same weight again. I would start heavy then go back down and include rest-pause sets in the routine. You'll see what I did shortly and hopefully I can get some input from the crowd. The routine I'm doing and way I'm doing it is what I came up with after only a few days study and reading a Dorian Yates interview and watching the Dugdale/Yates video. Be back later

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    Man well there is one flaw. As I was dropping setting cause I thought if I was truly going to FAILURE then I should not be able to do the same weight again. I would start heavy then go back down and include rest-pause sets in the routine. You'll see what I did shortly and hopefully I can get some input from the crowd. The routine I'm doing and way I'm doing it is what I came up with after only a few days study and reading a Dorian Yates interview and watching the Dugdale/Yates video. Be back later
    Can you provide this Interivew.

    Also i am considering trying this style of training, Right Now I do more of a Slingshot Type of training but am willing to try anything. I guess if your going heavy as possible and taking it to failure then drop setting and doing forced negatives you tear the muscle down just the same.

    Whats up with the rep Scheme i didnt notice Dorian had one?
    4 down 3 up???

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    i use this training also just once per week per muscle but i do intense and i feel iut the next day thats for sure

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    Dorian Yates does 1 working set for each muscle

    chest - 10 rep warm up
    8 rep warm up
    1 working set (SS or RP set)

    Just make sure that your 1 working set is more weight/reps each week.

    I am trying it out.
    Last edited by DSM4Life; 01-05-2009 at 07:29 PM.

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    Deltasaurus's Avatar
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    Wait i thought he did more than one working set per muscle, like on Blood and guts he did more than one exercise per muscle group, just one working set per exercise though, but he did do more than one exercise

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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    Wait i thought he did more than one working set per muscle, like on Blood and guts he did more than one exercise per muscle group, just one working set per exercise though, but he did do more than one exercise
    Not one set for the entire muscle
    Shoulders for example
    delts 1 working set
    traps 1 working set etc.

    Not shoulders all together one working set.

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    Dorian`s training philosophy

    What Dorian was trying to tell us was that he trained more to develop intensity than to develop muscle. The former is preeminent--both necessary and sufficient for the latter. But, more important, intensity is a function of mental strength in the form of concentration, willpower and comprehension of the manifold factors that effect muscle development. "I never adopted a hit-and-miss policy," he's fond of saying. Before he took his first workout, he sourced every available piece of literature he could find on bodybuilding and physiology. Then, by testing in his gym lab the theories of strength and muscle growth, he decocted two principles that revolutionized bodybuilding and gave us what is known as Dorian's Heavy-Duty System: (1) maximum muscular response is obtained from the shock of brief, high-intensity training; and (2) muscular growth occurs only after recuperation has taken place.

    Dorian credits the late Mike Mentzer's radical interpretation of this reasoning as inspiration, but Dorian is a vanguard in his own right, having proved that no training system is universally applicable but, instead, should be modified to one's personal characteristics. "Mentzer argued that as long as you execute a full range of motion," he explains, "you can reduce workouts to one set per bodypart, but I believe a variety of exercises are needed to stress different aspects of a particular muscle. For example, if I didn't do hack squats and relied only on leg presses, leg extensions and Smith machine squats, I'd lose the sweep to my outer thigh; and if all I did for back was chins, I'd maintain good upper lats but lack density in my middle and lower back. I believe you can make great gains with one set per exercise, but you need to do a variety of exercises per bodypart to ensure that all areas of that bodypart are optimally developed."

    Even so, Dorian barely deviated from the single-set principle. The major exercise for each bodypart would get only one, or, at the most, two warm-up sets before his single maximum set. The only exception was for chest, where he would precede his final set with three warm-up sets (prudent, considering the amount of weight he'd press and the vulnerability of the complex of joints and muscles in that area). Many following exercises got no warm-up sets at all ("I'm already warmed up from that first exercise," he'd say).

    That set remains ineffable for the rest of us. It resides only in Dorian's comprehension of "intensity." Only he has been able, by supernal force of will, to push his body far enough beyond absolute fatigue to give the terms "final" and "all-out" any meaning. His attempt to describe the experience is sincere but also typical of his understatement: "It must be stressed that the one final, all-out set I do takes me to the very limit of my capabilities. For example, for chest, one of my preferred movements is the incline barbell press. After two or three warm-up sets of six to 12 reps each, I load up the bar and grind out six reps to failure. Without stopping, my training partner then helps me keep it going with two or three forced reps, again to failure; but the set is still not finished. He'll then assist me with another three or four rest/pause or negative reps, until the bar absolutely will not move.

    "One set at that extreme intensity does the muscle-building job. For anyone trying this system, if you feel you can attempt a second set, then you couldn't have been pulling out all the stops during the first set. It might be thought that a reduction to a workload of one set per exercise is a radical change, but it wasn't for me, because I've never been a believer in volume work. All that I've ever needed to rationalize is what makes sense to me and to my physique.

    "The insurmountable question mark I've always had against doing even as few as three sets per exercise is: How can you avoid pacing yourself? You're bound to hold back on sets one and two to make sure there's enough left in the tank for set three. Once I learned how to do one final, all-out set, I wondered how I managed to avoid the pacing dilemma when I was doing two sets per movement."

    Dorian illustrates the pacing problem by comparing a sprinter and a marathon runner. How long can you maintain an all-out sprint before you are forced to jog? The answer: not very long. If you do three sets, it is physiologically impossible to sprint all-out each set. Even if you were able to maintain 100% effort throughout three sets, the effect would be detrimental--your body would be so depleted that you would be spending more time recovering from your workouts than growing from them.

    Intensity, alas, is only one half of Dorian's Heavy-Duty whole. The other half is recuperation. And the two are true moieties: insufficient recuperation impedes intensity, and insufficient intensity impedes growth. Thus, you will never hear Dorian diminish one in the presence of the other. Recuperation, in fact, is practically venerated. "Rest periods between sets are as long as I feel is required," he unabashedly admits. "Many bodybuilders think training is 50% aerobic and 50% anaerobic. That is a mistake. They don't rest enough between sets; their body is not able to regenerate enough energy to exhaust that muscle to absolute fatigue, which is the point at which optimal muscle growth begins.

    "I perform a set with 100% energy to 100% failure--then beyond, to 100% fatigue--and I won't do another set until I feel that the muscles have recuperated 100%, however long that takes. For example, when I take squats or leg presses to total fatigue, I know from experience that it's likely to be at least five or six minutes before I'll be able to even think about what my address or name is, let alone do another set." Beginning in 1983 and until 1986, he used a split routine. At first, he trained four times a week, averaging three heavy sets of eight reps per exercise, but he fell into bed at night tired and stressed, confessing, "I was obviously doing too much." Revising his schedule to every other day also proved too ambitious, so he changed it again, settling on three days a week, so that over a 14-day period, he worked each half of his body three times. Again, he fell short of peak recovery, so he trained every other day, using three exercises of two max sets each per bodypart.

    The intensity/volume equation was clarifying itself as a constant: the more intensely he trained, the stronger he grew, and the less volume was required. Not until 1992 did Dorian feel that his process had reached the sweet spot of simplicity, where he could apply the "one all-out set" principle in its quintessence to a consistent, seven-day regimen.

    Shoulders and triceps, a small bodypart combination that did not deplete his nervous system, came first, on day one, affording him full power the next day for back. While he wasn't overtrained from that two-day series, he needed a day's rest, before returning for an all-out attack on chest and biceps.

    To call Dorian's leg session (his fourth training day) a body-part workout fails to accord it with the awe it deserves--more properly, it was a life-sucking, flesh-frying torture that required him to insert a rest day both before and after, leaving him to follow a syncopated two-on/one-off/one-on/one-off/one-on/one-off schedule. That, however, was as complicated as it got. In this final iteration of his high-intensity program, a bodypart workout comprised only two to four exercises and one all-out set per exercise (preceded by one to three warm-up sets of 50%-70%). No workout lasted more than an hour, and most were only 45 minutes. To put it in perspective, his weight training for a week totaled perhaps 3 1/2 hours, about what many body-builders do in a day.


    Prior to his injuries, he would resist on the negative motion of each rep and explode out of the midpoint into the positive motion, which created an overload shock that was beyond the muscle's natural capacity. To avoid that explosive shock, Dorian modulated his power throughout the repetition by means of a smoother, more consistent movement, yet still pushed that rep to the same level of intensity. Since the overload was more constant through both negative and positive movements, he was able to concentrate harder on fuller and more deliberate muscle contractions. "I still applied the maximum amount possible of muscular stress," Dorian says. The result: his physique responded with even faster development and with what he calls a "more finished look.
    HIGH-INTENSITY HOW-TO

    1 Be objective in analyzing which exercises are best for you. Some conventional movements might not be suited for your physique. In my case, it was squats. After many years of being faithful to them, I realized that the relative lengths of my bodyparts restricted the range of motion for squats. When I switched to the leg press, I made much faster gains in quad size and sweep.

    2 Controlling the contraction of the muscle throughout the entire range of motion, as opposed to lifting as much weight as you can, is even more important for high-intensity training than in standard bodybuilding, because the purpose of high-intensity training is to take a muscle so far beyond total fatigue that it will not be able to fire for a repeat set. Merely lifting maximum weight only fatigues your coordinated body strength, without fully fatiguing the intended muscle.

    3 In each workout, use every technique you know to fatigue the muscle further than the last time. Try for one more rep than in your previous workout, then follow with forced reps, negatives, partials, ad infinitum, until you have to be carried to your car.

    4 Continuously try to reduce your volume (sets and reps) by increasing your intensity. You ll notice that I used only two warm-up sets for my heaviest compound exercises (except for chest, which got three).

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    Deltasaurus's Avatar
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    but on blood and guts he did Incline Bench,Fly's, and machine presses

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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    Can you provide this Interivew.

    Also i am considering trying this style of training, Right Now I do more of a Slingshot Type of training but am willing to try anything. I guess if your going heavy as possible and taking it to failure then drop setting and doing forced negatives you tear the muscle down just the same.

    Whats up with the rep Scheme i didnt notice Dorian had one?
    4 down 3 up???
    4 seconds down and 3 seconds back up. Slow and controlled. Warmed up 3 sets then did 3 sets for Incline smith, 3 sets wide grip press, 2 sets on incline pec dec. 2 warm up sets for bis 3 exer. 2 sets. Utilized rest/pause and negatives during the workout.... Started heavier went down (drop sets I guess) each set as I went to complete failure each time.

    Here is a good video of youtube. Just follow the series.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqR0-...eature=related Its how I went about the routine. Slow and controlled about everything


    Here is How I curled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsOg...eature=related
    Last edited by Reed; 01-05-2009 at 08:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    but on blood and guts he did Incline Bench,Fly's, and machine presses
    Maybe i am confusing you. Read the above i posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    4 seconds down and 3 seconds back up. Slow and controlled. Warmed up 3 sets then did 3 sets for Incline smith, 3 sets wide grip press, 2 sets on incline pec dec. 2 warm up sets for bis 3 exer. 2 sets. Utilized rest/pause and negatives during the workout.... Started heavier went down (drop sets I guess) each set as I went to complete failure each time.

    Here is a good video of youtube. Just follow the series.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqR0-...eature=related Its how I went about the routine. Slow and controlled about everything


    Here is How I curled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsOg...eature=related
    Not sure if i agree with a 4 second up and down. I can understand total control but 4 seconds up seems a bit excessive ? Esp on deadlifts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    Not sure if i agree with a 4 second up and down. I can understand total control but 4 seconds up seems a bit excessive ? Esp on deadlifts.
    Thats cool. Worked for me today thats for sure. On leg extensions its 5-6 seconds up and down w/ a 3 or 5 second pause at top. But thats just what Mike Mentzer suggest on that video series but what does he know

    (watch all of them bet you'd learn something I did)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    Thats cool. Worked for me today thats for sure. On leg extensions its 5-6 seconds up and down w/ a 3 or 5 second pause at top. But thats just what Mike Mentzer suggest on that video series but what does he know

    (watch all of them bet you'd learn something I did)
    I am watching the video right now. He also says to work out only once a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    I am watching the video right now. He also says to work out only once a week.
    I'm pretty sure he means per group but not 100%. IMO the best option is to look around watch other videos of the work out, read, and formulate your own way. You know your body better than I do so I can't tell you w/ 100% certainty that this is going to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    I'm pretty sure he means per group but not 100%. IMO the best option is to look around watch other videos of the work out, read, and formulate your own way. You know your body better than I do so I can't tell you w/ 100% certainty that this is going to work.
    I agree 100% but this is word for word in his Mike Metzer undersground seminar.

    Workout A sat
    Squat 8-18 reps to failure (and recommends smith squats not BB)
    Close grip rev pulldown 6-10 to failure
    DONE

    A week later

    Workout B Sat
    Deadlift 1 set 6-8 to failure
    dips 6-10 to failure
    DONE
    etc etc.

    I agree we are all different but this is whats he is saying in his video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish&Andy View Post
    My cousin is an amateur bodybuilder (has won numerous state and national titles) and he swears by HIT. He calls it "dorian yates and mike mentzer love child kind of training". He's a beast, but obviously with any style of training, diet is the number 1 factor to success.

    It's funny you mention HIT, because in the past few days I've been watching Mike Mentzer's HIT bodybuilding videos on youtube and it's got me very intrigued as well. However, it's not for everyone. People's definition of "high-intensity" also varies greatly.
    Not to get off track here but when you win a National Titles in the NPC you are no longer an amateur you turn Pro. Did he do the USA's the North American or Nationals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    I agree 100% but this is word for word in his Mike Metzer undersground seminar.

    Workout A sat
    Squat 8-18 reps to failure (and recommends smith squats not BB)
    Close grip rev pulldown 6-10 to failure
    DONE

    A week later

    Workout B Sat
    Deadlift 1 set 6-8 to failure
    dips 6-10 to failure
    DONE
    etc etc.

    I agree we are all different but this is whats he is saying in his video.

    IDK what to tell you. You want me say don't listen to that idiot cause he don't know what the hell he is talking about??? I didn't do the workout like in his video.... go look at my routine...... here is how dorian trained Mark Dugdale for a week.....

    http://www.megavideo.com/?v=0DBJW4VF

    ^^^ Enjoy that....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    IDK what to tell you. You want me say don't listen to that idiot cause he don't know what the hell he is talking about??? I didn't do the workout like in his video.... go look at my routine...... here is how dorian trained Mark Dugdale for a week.....

    http://www.megavideo.com/?v=0DBJW4VF

    ^^^ Enjoy that....
    I just recently watched that video and LOVED IT. I wrote up a new routine in order to follow that workout.

    I am not trying to get you to say anything, i am just telling you what i am hearing.

    In fact maybe just asking for your opinion. 1 workout every week ? What do you think ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    I just recently watched that video and LOVED IT. I wrote up a new routine in order to follow that workout.

    I am not trying to get you to say anything, i am just telling you what i am hearing.

    In fact maybe just asking for your opinion. 1 workout every week ? What do you think ?
    Only 1 total workout a week. Na not for me. If I did that my mind may get off track and I couldn't stand waiting for that feeling and euphoria I get from the gym..... Its my drug...... I mean you know as well as I do there are so many different ways to train and approaches. WHose to say this is the best.... I can't just yet cause I built this entire foundation from volume training and doing shit like Arnold..... Chest Back, Legs next day, shoulders/arms on third day with one day off then back to chest/back etc.. BUt I have noticed as I get stronger and since my CNS, immune system doesn't grow along I have cut back to once a week to ensure full recovery. I will keep my mind and ears open to all the approaches....

    With Mike I was just saying he was giving a lot of good pointers and showing a excellent way to perform HIT was not saying that routine is the bible for HIT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    Only 1 total workout a week. Na not for me. If I did that my mind may get off track and I couldn't stand waiting for that feeling and euphoria I get from the gym..... Its my drug...... I mean you know as well as I do there are so many different ways to train and approaches. WHose to say this is the best.... I can't just yet cause I built this entire foundation from volume training and doing shit like Arnold..... Chest Back, Legs next day, shoulders/arms on third day with one day off then back to chest/back etc.. BUt I have noticed as I get stronger and since my CNS, immune system doesn't grow along I have cut back to once a week to ensure full recovery. I will keep my mind and ears open to all the approaches....

    With Mike I was just saying he was giving a lot of good pointers and showing a excellent way to perform HIT was not saying that routine is the bible for HIT.
    I agree. At first i got the feeling you were heading in that direction.

    Anyway, after watching the Dorian Yates and reading a lot of info on the guy, he seems to be a really great/motivational guy. Of course the pictures tell a lot but i normally look further into people by watching interviews and such to see if their heads are screwed on right. He seems to be pretty much on point with a lot of things. I look forward to reading more about him later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireGuy1 View Post
    Not to get off track here but when you win a National Titles in the NPC you are no longer an amateur you turn Pro. Did he do the USA's the North American or Nationals?
    He doesn't live in America. He competes in the NABBA Australia. But either way, maybe he is pro now, haven't talked to him in a while. I'll try get pics to post up of him.

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    I tried it today and i Broke the biggest sweat i ever had in the past 6 months and almost threw up

    Ok it was Quad Traps day

    I did 3 warm up sets of leg ext. then 205 to failure then dropped it 10lbs and did like 3 more
    could hardly walk for a few mins

    then Front squat 2 warms ups
    then 195 to failure-Kinda dangerousish LOL

    Then Leg Press Not sure how much weight but it was heavy as hell and i couldnt do one more half rep even, almost shat myself and passed out at the same time.
    LOL was sweating and legs felt like Melted rubber

    Then i did traps in similar fashion, I really enjoyed it and over time i will be able to find out how well my body responds to it

    -AJ

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    Bump

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    Quote Originally Posted by A2thej2008 View Post
    I tried it today and i Broke the biggest sweat i ever had in the past 6 months and almost threw up

    Ok it was Quad Traps day

    I did 3 warm up sets of leg ext. then 205 to failure then dropped it 10lbs and did like 3 more
    could hardly walk for a few mins

    then Front squat 2 warms ups
    then 195 to failure-Kinda dangerousish LOL

    Then Leg Press Not sure how much weight but it was heavy as hell and i couldnt do one more half rep even, almost shat myself and passed out at the same time.
    LOL was sweating and legs felt like Melted rubber

    Then i did traps in similar fashion, I really enjoyed it and over time i will be able to find out how well my body responds to it

    -AJ
    Its great, I love it.

    I did chest today.

    Incline bench - 3 sets warm up, 1 working set (6 reps to failure, dropped, further 4 reps)
    Flat DB - 2 warm up, 1 working (6 reps failure, pause 20secs, 2 reps) Very controlled
    Inlcine Smith - 1 warm up, 2 working sets (7 reps, negatives to failure x2)
    Fly's 1 - 2 working sets very controlled 6-8 reps (4-5 secs negtives)

    Done.

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    Oh God people I'm about to go in and do legs. Wish me luck, pray for me, do a rain dance, or do whatever you do as I am about to see what it really is all about!!!!

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    i recommend using the smith machine i hate so much for any kind of squat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    Oh God people I'm about to go in and do legs. Wish me luck, pray for me, do a rain dance, or do whatever you do as I am about to see what it really is all about!!!!
    Did legs today as well. Thank god for crappy weather as all the new comers stayed home.

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    I did HIT again today for Chest and Bi's Did 3 exercises with 3 working sets total for all exercises with chest and have to say it whooped my butt, not sure if i needed another exercise but rather rest up and see next week, Bicep training was awesome quick and intense as hell and i didnt go super light or anything i went as heavy as possible for good form and 6+ reps to failure

    Not sold yet but i could be soon, Work outs are quick intense and efficient just have to see how my body responds

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