so how many of you are going to man up and admit you started gear at a bf over 20%

[jamyjamjr]

guilty... i did it, started at about 26%, wasn't the best of ideas but it helped me change my lifestyle for the better..

nazi diet
nazi doc supervision
alota anc. drugs..

anyone else???

[Brown Ninja]

guilty as well. First cycle was garbage but I learned a ton from it. I'm thankful in a strange sort of way

[T_Own]

i've never cycled and i've never been close to 20%... so not i

[quarry206]

i think the big issue is too many people don't realize they are 20+percent... people aways think they are single digits ... i would say lots and lots of people start at 20 or above

[DKU]

I was probably 20-25% when I started my current cutting cycle, but I had been dirty bulking for many years.

[jbm]

Almost did! hehe...

[Immortal Soldier]

Highest I ever was 16% and I was able to lower it to 13% in 4-5 months

[moregunsthanroses]

I've been very close if not at 20% when cycling. But then again I never did cardio when I was on before.

So yes I'm guilty.

[JiGGaMaN]

i will never admit it.

[Matt]

Never been close to 20%...

[WOLFCRAFT]

I'll admit I started with a tren -only cycle because I had no idea what I was doing.

[RuhlFreak55]

i've done it....i never agreed with that rule anyway

[DSM4Life]

I dont think i ever been 20% either.

[Ernst]

[higherdesire]

What do you mean when you say that? My first cycle was obtained through a friend sus and deca . I wanted more afterwards. He hooked me up with a guy that as it turns out used to be a popular member here(I didn't know it at the time though) and he freaked out becasue I had never heard of PCT. I had 5 16g pins that I used over and over for 12 weeks. I didn't know what I didn't know.

All in all my first cycle rocked. I was probably near 20% but not over.

[D7M]

i think the big issue is too many people don't realize they are 20+percent... people aways think they are single digits ... i would say lots and lots of people start at 20 or above

good point.

that's why you constantly see people throwing out crazy numbers like, "I'm 4% bf" when they are realistically maybe 11-12%.

but, no, I have never cycled near 20%.

[Dukkit]

i think i was 35% BF when i did my first cycle

look at me now...

ahhh... the wonders of gear!!!!

[jamyjamjr]

i think i was 35% BF when i did my first cycle

look at me now...

ahhh... the wonders of gear!!!!

stop giving all the fat n00bs false hope... lmao

[jfalco]

stop giving all the fat n00bs false hope... lmao

what do you think this whole thread does? You guys all try to stick to your guns about not giving bad advice. Anythime I see anyone say they are 20% or over and planning a cycle everyone on this board jumps down their throat. Do you think all those guys won't see this thread? Every time one of you guys tries to talk someone out of doing a cycle that they shouldn't be doing, you credibility will be hurt by this thread.

jamyjamr, I'm kind of surprised you would start this thread, becuase you are one of the more helpful members on this board. In the short time that I've been hanging around I've come to trust your advice.

[Brown Ninja]

I think it takes more of a man to admit when he is wrong and what he learned from it. Its unreal to think that we were all experts when we started. My first cycle was garbage and I readily admit that but I would never lead anyone to think that what I did was intelligent or a good idea. We all live and learn.

[T_Own]

how about this for a good idea. i'll wait until i get to 20%bf before i start a cycle! that way i can eat shitty and get hugeeee

[Skully44420]

guilty and i was an idiot and didn't really know anything...

[Kratos]

I was right around 20% when I started
that was 2 years ago, now less than 14% for sure

[*RAGE*]

I am guilty as well, but now I have learned so much, I treat a cycle like an marriage now. I dont go into nothing without all the knowledge and planning...or at least I think I would....but I will always have question....

[jamyjamjr]

what do you think this whole thread does? You guys all try to stick to your guns about not giving bad advice. Anythime I see anyone say they are 20% or over and planning a cycle everyone on this board jumps down their throat. Do you think all those guys won't see this thread? Every time one of you guys tries to talk someone out of doing a cycle that they shouldn't be doing, you credibility will be hurt by this thread.

jamyjamr, I'm kind of surprised you would start this thread, becuase you are one of the more helpful members on this board. In the short time that I've been hanging around I've come to trust your advice.

first and formost, i appreciate the complement, i try to help out as much as i can


your looking at this in a completely wrong way....

dont commit the crime of associating one mans wrongs to what happens next as he gives advice...

your more then welcome to call me a hypocrite and i have nothing to hide on this forum... yes i made mistakes, everyone has on this forum... no ones perfect.. when we have members who ask about bf and starting gear, im open and honest about how my initial exp was.. but i also explained the risks and the precautions i had taken (ie. nazi diet & training, doc sup, and anc. drugs)... many have no idea what they're doing when they just begin... iv had more then one guy pm me and ask me how i went about doing gear at a higher bf and i always said your best bet is to drop to 15%, just as the more experianced guys out here have told me because, yes, it does make sense... but at the same time, i know people are going to do what they want to do and i want to make the exp as safe as possible for them... so i have no prob sharing my exp in that context

the advice i give out is based upon two things, experiance (which constitutes mistakes,) and kick ass guys out here on the forum that have a wealth of knowledge...

we dont wanna be a sloppy forum that gives shitty advice, we care about our co-members, even though 50% of the time they arn't gonna follow through with our advice...

just the response this thread has brought out shows how many people actually do start gear at a higher bf.... we can learn from it...

if you were to get into an accident, would someone call u a hypocrite when you give out advice that you may have learned through the mistakes you made that caused that accident??? only a fool would...

all in all, you have to look at it at another perspective...

the point of starting this thread is to see where our community REALLY stands with the corelation of bf and the use of gear... and it seems that the advice isn't helping as much as we thought it was....

this doesn't change anything though... im still going to tell people to drop the weight before doing gear.. so are guys like big, t-mos, pt, and almost all the vets on this forum...


if you wanna look at it from a diff angle.. how do you tell a powerlifter to drop to 15%???? those guys are huge and have bf levels well above 15%... BUT THEY CHOSE THAT LIFESTYLE AND HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE RISKS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT...

i rest my case.....

[Chode Logan]

Yup, and it helped me get in a lot better shape. That is just a "guideline", and I don't think it's appropriate to use blanket advice like that, everyone's different.

[BgMc31]

Most of the heavyweight powerlifters and strongmen I know all started at around 20%, if not higher. I didn't because I was just coming off my football career. So again, it's all what your goal is with cycling. If you are looking for a better body, then it probably isn't wise, but if absolute strength is your goal, it's not that big a deal, IMO.

[jfalco]

jamyjamjr, I wasn't trying to call you a hypocrite. I was just pointing out that this thread reads like an advertisement for doing cycles when you're fat, and that was a predictable result of starting the thread. I know that wasn't your intention, nor the intention of most of the posters. that's why I felt like saying something.

[jamyjamjr]

jamyjamjr, I wasn't trying to call you a hypocrite. I was just pointing out that this thread reads like an advertisement for doing cycles when you're fat, and that was a predictable result of starting the thread. I know that wasn't your intention, nor the intention of most of the posters. that's why I felt like saying something.

better to bring out the truth of whats going on then to hide it behind the fear of scrutiny....


this reminds me of how sexuality was viewed in the 50's.. it was common knowledge that "no one does anything thing but normal, child birthing intercourse".. well, that was up untill kinsey came in and said, no, theres homosexuality, oral sex, anal sex, and ohh my fcuking god, masterbation is a normal act!!!!!

i will continue to tell people to drop their bodyfat before they do gear, because its sound advice... just cuz i went off the cliff, doesn't mean everyone has to follow me (nor do i recommend it)

[Matt]

Remember being under weight can be just as bad as being over weight...

[jamyjamjr]

Remember being under weight can be just as bad as being over weight...

agreed

[ni4ni]

never been @ 20-dont want to be either

[calgarian]

I did it as well and get this my first ever cycle was tren and test thats goes against 2 most common advise given on Q&A. Never cycle over 20%BF and never use tren for the first time...I did it both live to tell about it....

[Gaspari1255]

I was under 20% but didn't know a damn thing about nutrition, just as bad.

[J-Dogg]

I've never been over 20% bf.

[8iron]

Im about to do my first cylce, Ive been working on droping my body fat from 20%, Jammy,s helped with my diet among other things, Im down to 18% want to get to 16% before I start, I want to make sure i get the most out of my first cycle, so all your guys advice does help, some of us are out here listening, and are learning from your knowledge and your mistakes, and I for one appreciate the fact u guys share your knowledge and guide us to make the best choices

[CHUCKYthentic]

Never even been close to 20%, fatties!

[CHAP]

I did it !

[tyward]

Never been over 15%, but it reminds me of my cutting schedule. A student would walk up to me and say, "Gee T, you're looking a little chunky!". I would start cutting the next day...LOL

[jamyjamjr]

Im about to do my first cylce, Ive been working on droping my body fat from 20%, Jammy,s helped with my diet among other things, Im down to 18% want to get to 16% before I start, I want to make sure i get the most out of my first cycle, so all your guys advice does help, some of us are out here listening, and are learning from your knowledge and your mistakes, and I for one appreciate the fact u guys share your knowledge and guide us to make the best choices

good to hear the diets working well for you man!!!

glad to hear there are people listening... some dont understand