SCIENCE/SPACE/TIME - a meeting of the minds!

[Reed]

I don't think so. IMHO all the stuff in the universe curves and bends in on itself, and any attempt to get outside of the universe is futile because
our universe is the only place where there is energy, matter, mass, space, and time. Without these things, there isn't anything.

There actually found something strange going on at the edges of the universe. Something be it a large structure or whatever is tugging at our universe from the outside and is taking entire galaxies with it.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...dark-flow.html

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/0...dark-flow.html

[CSAR]

I get my science, physics, and astronomy from Star Trek: TNG

[Bio-boosted]

There actually found something strange going on at the edges of the universe. Something be it a large structure or whatever is tugging at our universe from the outside and is taking entire galaxies with it.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...dark-flow.html

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/0...dark-flow.html

There is a thought that the universe is still the same 'size' as the singularity from which it was born. Pre-bigbang there is no space-time, just a volumeless point. At the bang the physical laws are released, along with exotic particles, which create distance and movement. With nothing to expand into (there is nothing outside the universe) the growing universe is a phenomenon only noticable from the inside. The galaxies appear to be moving away from eachother but in fact the universe is the same size as it always was, it's only the stuff inside thats got further apart.
From the outside you'd notice nothing, but from the inside there is the appearance of an outside 'pulling'.

[mho]

All I wanna know is if gene doping will ever make steroids obsolete and when.

As soon as they can figure out how to keep tendons from deterioriating in a myostatin deficient body.

[Matt]

[Flagg]

One of my customers is involved in an effort to create a logic system that gets around the paradox of a "set of all sets." Another way of stating the problem would be "putting the universe in a bag," where the bag would have to be part of the universe, which would mean the universe would still not be in a container.

It's a paradox, and he's a high-powered math/physics type involved with a $$$ effort to figure some way around the problem. In a brief conversation, we resolved that (strictly speaking) in this universe, there are no straight lines. If you take the straight edge of a ruler and extend it indefinitely in both directions, you'll find that both ends eventually meet, because space is curved. It's sorta like painting a line on the surface of planet Earth; you can start a line anywhere, and it will curve around and around a few times, and it will eventually meet. An equatorial line is about the only line that won't travel the sphere's surface more than one time . . .

Anyway, for practical everyday purposes, we can measure out lines for roadbuilding and space navigation. But when ya get into universe-size scales, strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a straight line.

All that etc etc etc got me to speculating (this isn't my primary field of expertise) that if the universe got its start from a "big bang" and light and matter are travelling away from the epicenter, then quite possibly instead of a line extending from a point in space to the outer edge and from there back into space from a corresponding point at the opposite outer edge at the other edge of space, I'm thinking that what actually happens is
space curves from the edge of the epicenter in a circle back upon itself.
Picture, if you will, a potato, where the outer skin was at the same location as its center. That is (maybe) the essence of our universe's shape. You could travel around the epicenter of the sphere, but if you went into it, you wouldn't notice, but you'd be traveling at a far end of the universe, just like nothing unusual ever happened . . .

It's a weird universe. If I had put everything together, it would have made a lot more sense, and AS would be free for everyone and would have no unpleasant effects.

That's very interesting Tock and it would be a way of quanitifying the Universe in a way that the finite mind can grasp. However I still lean to the idea that the Universe is infinite and the reason for that is size, but not necessarily outward. Take an Atom. Until awhile ago it was believed to be the smallest thing in the Universe, until it was discovered that Protons were made of Quarks. But where does it end? What are Quarks made of? Sub atomic quarks, tachyons? And when the answer to that is found, what is the stuff that makes Quarks composed of? Nothing denies everything and I think Infinite is just that, infinite, and that it stretches in all directions. In religion it is said that "The ways of God are not for man to understand/know" and I sometimes wonder if that is true of the Universe. But I do think that humanity has enormous potential and I think one day we could truly master everything there is to know about Science, time and space.

[Flagg]

Does anyone believe that Faster Than Light is possible? The theory being that an objects mass increases massively the faster it goes, hence it would be impossible to go faster than light because you would cease to exist and the theory that you would occupy all of space all at once.

I kind of like the Star Trek way of thinking, that light can be exceeded and that they have ships surrounded by a "warp field" that prevents the ship being ripped apart. I just think that if we can't travel faster than light, it's going to be very hard to do any sort of space exploration in the future.

[Bio-boosted]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[Flagg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Very, very interesting read BioBoosted. Imagine if this is possible in the future. I highly doubt it would be in any of our life times but just imagine the first engine build and sending a probe into space. It would literally be a massive step for Mankind.

I always wondered how it would be possible to navigate in space, to make sure you dont hit anything out there or stray too near the gravitational pull of a planet or star or how you would slow down.

[Hazard]

I don't have time to respond to the many great posts that were posted over the last 24 hours LOL so i'll try my best to comment on wha ti can remember.....

regarding the speed of light..... they know of things that can go the speed of light..... we jsut can't use them to travel. For example...... picture scissors..... as you close the pair of scissors..... you can follow the point at which the metal meets. It starts at the bottom of the scissors and continues up until the two tips meet. If we had scissors that extended into space..... and we could close those scissors as fast as we possibly could..... that "point where the metal meets" would be traveling faster than the speed of light.

The universe is not infinite and we know this now..... butit is expanding.

Traveling outside of the universe is NOT IMPOSSIBLE..... be our civilization will have to be a class 3. I can't go into explaining the classes and what they mean but a short answer is right now i believe we are on the brink of becomming a class 1. Being able to haness most of our planets energy and some of the sun's. Class 3's can harness all of it's planets..... it's sun..... and other external sources. Essentially - a class 3 society would be nearly impossible to destroy. Picture the "deathstar" from star wars..... that was a class 3. I think we're approximately 20,000 years away from class 2 at the rate our technology is progressing.

Black holes...... it's very possible that a black hole could throw us into another part of our universe or into another universe. We, however, could not come back!

Regarding anti-matter being the most expensive sh*t on earth...... thats correct and someone please let me know when they develope enough for me to inject

Oh and lastly..... another "space travel" option is to use "sails" - they would shoot electron beams at the space shuttle sails and that would propel the shuttle through space. But "electron beam" stations would have to be set up along the way to keep the propulsion going.

If anyone reads "physics of the impossible" by Dr. Michio Kaku - please shoot me a PM and let me know what you thought of it!

~Haz~

[Matt]

Do you guys know about the magnetic poles changing??

[Flagg]

Do you guys know about the magnetic poles changing??

Isn't this supposed to be happening in 2012 which is supposed to coincide with the so called Mayan apocalypse?

[Matt]

Im not sure when its going to happen but they have been able to show that it has infact happened many times in the earths history. What i do find interesting with it is that when it has happened in the past the earth has warmed up as it is doing now. But yes the poles are changing now so it is expected soonish...

[Flagg]

The problem with this connundrum is that this phenomena has never been observed by homo sapiens. Some say that a greatly diminished field would be catastrophic as the earth would be bombarded with cosmic radiation. However you are right Matt that it has happened in our past, apparantly when our ancestors Homo Erectus (no giggling now lol) were around and well they seemed to have coped with the change.

It seems too hokey and wishy washy that this phenomena is supposed to happen in 2012 AND the Mayans apparantly predicted some mass disaster. Still they said that was going to happen in 2000 and im sure 2006 or something as well.

[Matt]

So this said Flagg, is it possible that this could be a cause for climate change?? Or am i way off with this?

[IronReload04]

I saw this thing on tv. I will see if I can find it

But its theoretically possible to build a device, that can send sound waves to the past. To make a long story short, if they build the device, the time of it starting operation is the most distant amount of time backwards sound waves could go.

[IronReload04]

The problem with this connundrum is that this phenomena has never been observed by homo sapiens. Some say that a greatly diminished field would be catastrophic as the earth would be bombarded with cosmic radiation. However you are right Matt that it has happened in our past, apparantly when our ancestors Homo Erectus (no giggling now lol) were around and well they seemed to have coped with the change.

It seems too hokey and wishy washy that this phenomena is supposed to happen in 2012 AND the Mayans apparantly predicted some mass disaster. Still they said that was going to happen in 2000 and im sure 2006 or something as well.

you wanna talk about that mayan ancient stuff. Everybody seems to be asking what they have accurately predicted. What no one seems to be asking is what ALL have they predicted, and what percentage of it was accurate?

[Flagg]

So this said Flagg, is it possible that this could be a cause for climate change?? Or am i way off with this?

Oh man I wish i had my Earth and Ocean systems notes on hand because it covered all sorts of stuff on this.

At first I thought that Obliquity, Eccentricity and Precession had something to do with this and I was wondering if Precession had anything to do with the Poles shifting. This is basically the term used to describe the earth wobbling on an axis and this occurs every 19-23 thousand years. We are at precession maximum with our axis pointing towards polaris and in the approx. the year 13,000 AD we will be pointing towards Vega at a precession minimum, basic translation is what we define as the North pole today will be pointing somewhere else in the future. I do know that the Obliquity, Eccentricity and Precession has been used to try and define when paleo and geomagnetic reversals have taken place in the past.

However, and im just going by some old notes ive dug up, "there is a paradox in the strong astronomical timing of the ice-age cycles and the fact that these orbital cycles concern only very minor changes in solar irradiation. Why would such weak changes have such profound effects on the climate system? Somewhere in the ocean/ocean/ice/bio-sphere system, there must be feedback processes that positively amplify the weak solar irradiation fluctuations...but where? This is a major issue in paleoclimatology, and it like involves CO2." there isn't much more ive got on that beyond what might be covered in year 3.

Obliquity, Eccentricity and Precession do have an affect on how much energy gets to us and to answer your question, yes the changing of poles might/could be responsible for climate change. I mean apparantly the shift in magnetic fields is not major and the increase in solar radiation isn't considered dangerous, but this apparantly has caused a massive feedback loop in the earths other systems in the past and no one knows why. If you look at Paleomaps of earths climate you can see that we are at the tail end of an ice age AND the planet is on schedule to get warmer..

[Flagg]

you wanna talk about that mayan ancient stuff. Everybody seems to be asking what they have accurately predicted. What no one seems to be asking is what ALL have they predicted, and what percentage of it was accurate?

Virtually none. I mean apparantly "seers" like Nostradamus predicted WW II and Hitler but i'm not a big believer in prophesies (as interesting as they are).

And Ironreload, if you can find that documentory about the soundwaves, post it cause i'd very much like to see that.

[Bio-boosted]

regarding the speed of light..... they know of things that can go the speed of light..... we jsut can't use them to travel. For example...... picture scissors..... as you close the pair of scissors..... you can follow the point at which the metal meets. It starts at the bottom of the scissors and continues up until the two tips meet. If we had scissors that extended into space..... and we could close those scissors as fast as we possibly could..... that "point where the metal meets" would be traveling faster than the speed of light.
~Haz~

Not according to Einstein's theory. When the tips of your giant scissors approach light speed you would need infinite energy to move them further
There are other ways tho..

[Bio-boosted]

This vid is 11mins long but is totally ****ing amazing. You must watch it, you won't notice the time pass i promise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_GQqUg6Ts

[Hazard]

Not according to Einstein's theory. When the tips of your giant scissors approach light speed you would need infinite energy to move them further
There are other ways tho..

hmmmmm interesting point...... I believe they "theorized" these particles that travel faster than the speed of light..... i can't remember their name tho..... and they havn't been discovered yet.

~Haz~

[Gappa]

Ever heard of Bob Lazar? Google him... Supposedly he worked on alien spacecraft at the S4 complex south of area 51...
These craft used a machined chunk of element 115 that when a proton is fired at it it transmutates to element 116 which decays and produces an antimatter particle. This reaction also produces a Gravity "A" wave which is siphoned off and amplified in a "gravity warp drive" which actually lets one travel thru space by folding or warping space itself..
The science is sound but outside of present known physics.. very cool stuff

[Gappa]

it was stated these compact reactors produced an output of 300 kilotons of energy per second! That is an astronomical amount of power. I kt is around the energy produced by the explosion on Hiroshima..
A reactor producing that much energy if directed properly would easily allow for interstellar travel.

[Gappa]

the chunk of element 115 is machined into a triangle wedge a few inches high.. This one chip will power the reactor for 25-30 years!!

[Hazard]

This vid is 11mins long but is totally ****ing amazing. You must watch it, you won't notice the time pass i promise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_GQqUg6Ts

cool video man..... check this one out..... this is about the 3 types of civilizations...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHbnM_42mQE

~Haz~

[DNoMac]

Smart bunch of meatheads you guys are lol. Very intriguing info. Wish Johan was still around with his infinite wisdom.

[Hazard]

Guys - check out this video too..... it's about universes/multiverses and the big bang...... truely mind bending. It's 10 minutes long but WELL WORTH the look. This is the guy who wrote "Physics of the impossible"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rg3u...eature=related

~Haz~

[Gappa]

Michio is on the History and Discovery channels alot...

[Hazard]

Smart bunch of meatheads you guys are lol. Very intriguing info. Wish Johan was still around with his infinite wisdom.

your a BIG meathead...... jesus LOL.... nice obliques!

~Haz~

[Hazard]

Michio is on the History and Discovery channels alot...

SCiq sundays on the science channel LOL.... iw atch him ALL THE TIME! I'd like to meet him and have a hour long convo.... just be like "Tell me something i don't know" LOL

~Haz~

[Gappa]

so this now BEGS the question... Do you think we are being visited by other alien races?
I say YES 100%

[Hazard]

so this now BEGS the question... Do you think we are being visited by other alien races?
I say YES 100%

There is a video on youtube by michio regarding aliens LMAO.... search it. I believe we are.... here's something interesting i heard but im not sure if it's correct.

laser pointers, fiberoptics, and kevlar we all "discovered" around the same time as the area 51 incident. Supposedly..... a spacecraft with alien bodies (dead) were found. They were wearing protective suits (kevlar) and their communications and lights were all connected with glass like wires (fiberoptics) - the ability to bend light...... they were also carrying some sort of laser pointer..... or laser object.

I don't know how true that is..... like i said..... it was something i heard and can't remember where i got it from.


~Haz~

[Hazard]

Michio on aliens your welcome LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw8dc...eature=related

~Haz~

[Gappa]

you are forgetting microchips! you are 100% correct

[Gappa]

I watch UFO hunters BTW it's gettin ready to come on... People are seeing something in our skies

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

We are all going to be dead on 12/21/2012.

[Gappa]

Yeah I know sucks dosen't it. No more BigSexy..

[kalspic]

the elegant universe is a pretty good read on just about everything you all posted. it goes on the explain the string theory and how quantum physics and the theory of relativity contradict eachother. pretty good read.

[Bio-boosted]

hmmmmm interesting point...... I believe they "theorized" these particles that travel faster than the speed of light..... i can't remember their name tho..... and they havn't been discovered yet.

~Haz~

They are Tachyons. They are a faster than light particle that tends to pop up in string theory. Bizzarely they travel in the 4th dimension (space-time) so if you were to stand in its path you'd never see it coming, but shortly aferwards you'd see an image of it moving away from you, back along the path it'd come along AND a mirror image of it moving to follow the Tachyon. The particle has 'arrived' before the light! I have no idea why an image of it moves backwards, but i think it's got summit to do with faster than light (FTL) objects appearing to an outside observer as moving backwards in time... Odd eh lol.
If I read right, there is as much evidence for them as there is against, so the jury's still out so to speak.