Congress to Nationalize Oil Production in the USA

[spywizard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ

the record is the record no matter who tells it

[Immortal Soldier]

Great misleading title, one democrat of Congress says she would want to nationalize US oil so that means that the US is going to do it. Nice to know thats how your mind works.

[spywizard]

after reading many of your posts, I truly believe that you are not that naive, trends and a mis speak by this one person is hardly proof, i was simply sharing the comments that were made..

Lets see, so far we have seen nationalization of what???

auto industry
health care being driven down our throat
national laws for gun control, creating a registry
hate crimes regarding what someone says..

food, money,

what's next?? religion??

Point being, it's a trend, and not a good one..

[auslifta]

I have not seen the video you posted yet, but from your post above I get the idea. It is quite clear to me that the government in USA is starting to get too much control.

[Immortal Soldier]

after reading many of your posts, I truly believe that you are not that naive, trends and a mis speak by this one person is hardly proof, i was simply sharing the comments that were made..

Lets see, so far we have seen nationalization of what???

auto industry
health care being driven down our throat
national laws for gun control, creating a registry
hate crimes regarding what someone says..

food, money,

what's next?? religion??

Point being, it's a trend, and not a good one..

Health care is not being "forced" down our throats, Canada as a perfectly good working health care system, but we don't. Unfortunately our bipartisan leadership cannot come to agreement, both canadiates (McCain and Obama) said they would bring health care to every American so its not like this is something new, people have been talking about a nationwide health care since Clinton.

Furthermore, the auto-industry was bailed out by the government because of their own lack of control over keeping their business' afloat and reduce errant spending if you look at Japanese and companies like Honda and Toyota they are doing fine because their senior leadership can run a company, the American automakers ran theirs into the ground.

Anytime someone bails you out wether it be the government or the bank or another company, that person has a right to say what they want their money to go to and have control in leadership matters.


I honestly don't want to start this argument because it has been brought up 10000 times on other boards where people think that the government is turning socialist and taking over as some evil plan to rule freedom.

[spywizard]

doesn't canada have a duel system of healthcare??

the public one and a private one that people that can afford it use??

I think i read that somewhere..

[BgMc31]

^^^Isn't that what the President is recommending? From what I understand, there are no plans to get rid of private health care, or am I wrong on this? If so, could someone please provide the bill.

[Matt]

Free and private health care over here works just great...

[gixxerboy1]

They need to do something. I'm a diabetic so i cant get health insurance on my own. No company will insure me. so i'm screwed

[Altoidmike]

^^^Isn't that what the President is recommending? From what I understand, there are no plans to get rid of private health care, or am I wrong on this? If so, could someone please provide the bill.

Obama in a previous press speech said 'If you like your current health care you can keep it, for those who cant afford it can use the one provided by the government." Which is fine for those who can afford it but the ones who can and cant will be paying for it anyways through taxes. The administration needs to stop adding more taxes, instead our current taxes need to be consolidated not to increase our taxes but to see what can be lowered/cut in order to make room for all these new nationalized services. I am pretty good at keeping up on the current events, do correct me if I'm wrong.

[BgMc31]

after reading many of your posts, I truly believe that you are not that naive, trends and a mis speak by this one person is hardly proof, i was simply sharing the comments that were made..

Lets see, so far we have seen nationalization of what???

auto industry
health care being driven down our throat
national laws for gun control, creating a registry -How is that preventing gun ownership
hate crimes regarding what someone says.. - So there is no such thing as hate speech? Doesn't hate speech cause violence (ie radical muslim clerics calling for Jihad, supremacists groups advocating lone wolf operatives?

food, money,

what's next?? religion??

Point being, it's a trend, and not a good one..

Obama in a previous press speech said 'If you like your current health care you can keep it, for those who cant afford it can use the one provided by the government." Which is fine for those who can afford it but the ones who can and cant will be paying for it anyways through taxes. The administration needs to stop adding more taxes, instead our current taxes need to be consolidated not to increase our taxes but to see what can be lowered/cut in order to make room for all these new nationalized services. I am pretty good at keeping up on the current events, do correct me if I'm wrong.

A public option is just that...A PUBLIC OPTION PAID FOR BY THE PUBLIC!!! Otherwise how do you suggest a 'public' option is paid for? In other western countries with 'universal healthcare' many/most of those have public options that are paid for by taxpayers.

[spywizard]

^^..

It stops and infringes on the rights of the state.. gun ownership

Free speech.. it was what this country was founded on based on religious persecution that the founders of this country came here for.. ... ever hear Al Sharpton or
Louis Farrakhan speak??



Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it..

[Tock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ

the record is the record no matter who tells it

Oh for crying out loud, you gave a link to Fox News?
J.H.C, nobody takes them seriously.

Ya, like EXXON-Mobile is gonna let themselves be nationalized. Uh-huh.

[Tock]

Lets see, so far we have seen nationalization of what???

auto industry
health care being driven down our throat
national laws for gun control, creating a registry
hate crimes regarding what someone says..

food, money,

what's next?? religion??

Lord knows I get lots of religion driven down my throat.
We gays can't get married or be in the military because Christian's bible doesn't like us. But we still have to pay taxes (more than we would if we could marry) and then that $$$ goes to give anti-gay churches FREE municipal services, because they don't have to pay ANY taxes. What's up with that?

[SMCengineer]

The only thing I want to say about the american healthcare system (because it's off topic in this thread) is that it's NOT a "free market system." Government interventions necessarily induce further government interventions! Keep that in mind...

[BgMc31]

The only thing I want to say about the american healthcare system (because it's off topic in this thread) is that it's NOT a "free market system." Government interventions necessarily induce further government interventions! Keep that in mind...

^^^name a "free market system" anywhere in the world that works?

[BgMc31]

^^..

It stops and infringes on the rights of the state.. gun ownership

Free speech.. it was what this country was founded on based on religious persecution that the founders of this country came here for.. ... ever hear Al Sharpton or
Louis Farrakhan speak??


Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it..

The Nation of Islam IS a supremacists group...so what's your point? They incite violence as well!!!!

[thegodfather]

Health care is not being "forced" down our throats, Canada as a perfectly good working health care system, but we don't. Unfortunately our bipartisan leadership cannot come to agreement, both canadiates (McCain and Obama) said they would bring health care to every American so its not like this is something new, people have been talking about a nationwide health care since Clinton.

Furthermore, the auto-industry was bailed out by the government because of their own lack of control over keeping their business' afloat and reduce errant spending if you look at Japanese and companies like Honda and Toyota they are doing fine because their senior leadership can run a company, the American automakers ran theirs into the ground.

Anytime someone bails you out wether it be the government or the bank or another company, that person has a right to say what they want their money to go to and have control in leadership matters.


I honestly don't want to start this argument because it has been brought up 10000 times on other boards where people think that the government is turning socialist and taking over as some evil plan to rule freedom.

Canada's system is not ok. Canada has a defacto two tier healthcare system. The most talented doctors who produce the best outcomes go into private practice and only take cash or private insurance. Whilst the mediocre, less talented, and shitty doctors, practice on the public plan. It amounts to GREAT doctors for the well to do, and mediocre and sometimes incompetent doctors for the less fortunate. At least under our current system, someone with medicare who needs a surgery can still access a talented and renowned surgeon.

Additionally, the wait times in Canada force many people to cross the border for what are seen as 'non-emergent' surgeries like knee replacements, hip replacements, and in some cases more serious surgeries like heart surgery and spine surgery. Never mind the fact that the person is obviously seeking this surgery because they are in a great deal of pain. That is the problem with bureaucrats running health care, they will often sacrifice patient comfort in the name of "efficiency" or "cost-savings." And they have the discretion to do so because they are paying for it, and you have no say. I could go on and on and on. I have a unique perspective on this having majored in Political Science and participated in a significant amount of research in that field, and as a future medical doctor.

[SMCengineer]

^^^name a "free market system" anywhere in the world that works?

Every “free market system,” everywhere in the world, works. It’s a given that if there existed no government institution, you would, necessarily, find a way to engage in commerce for your own survival, which would, no doubt, be a benefit to others as well. I’m not sure where you’re going with that straw man argument.

[thegodfather]

Every “free market system,” everywhere in the world, works. It’s a given that if there existed no government institution, you would, necessarily, find a way to engage in commerce for your own survival, which would, no doubt, be a benefit to others as well. I’m not sure where you’re going with that straw man argument.

Hong Kong has one of the best free market systems in the entire world. And as such, they are rewarded with tremendous economic growth EVERY YEAR.

[zimmy]

When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent. When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun. Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet.

[TITANIUM]

They need to do something. I'm a diabetic so i cant get health insurance on my own. No company will insure me. so i'm screwed

You can in mass.....

[TITANIUM]

When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent. When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun. Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet.

Exactly!!!!!

[Kratos]

Furthermore, the auto-industry was bailed out by the government because of their own lack of control over keeping their business' afloat and reduce errant spending if you look at Japanese and companies like Honda and Toyota they are doing fine because their senior leadership can run a company, the American automakers ran theirs into the ground.
.

Our auto industry was not bailed out, it was a hostile take-over. They own 60% of the new company and will sell it for a profit.


compared to senior leadership that can run a company

http://www.autospies.com/news/Nissan...bailout-40707/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_171303.html
http://www.newser.com/story/52383/ho...bandwagon.html
http://bx.businessweek.com/mazda-mot...fef784ecec45e/

[mho]

Free and private health care over here works just great...

Didn't your government just illegalize organ transplants in the private sector because "it's unfair" to those who use the socialized system?

[Kratos]

Chris Dodd (CT senator and major pusher of universal healthcare) just got diagnosed with prostate cancer, I wonder if he'll be going to europe for care.

I doubt it since the survival rate is 99.3% in the US vs 77% in Europe.
Similar disparity for all types of cancer.

[BgMc31]

Hong Kong has one of the best free market systems in the entire world. And as such, they are rewarded with tremendous economic growth EVERY YEAR.

Hong Kong has socialized medicine and government regulation in many industries. As a matter of fact the US has less government regulation than Hong Kong, correct?

Blome, my point with what you call the "straw man" point, is while I don't agree 100% with all the actions the Obama administration is doing, I'm impressed that he is doing something. And I refuse to subscribe to the "chicken little" affect. Bush violated more constitutionalized rights than Obama, but yet Obama is being called the communist and/or socialist. I've yet to see why all this panick is going on. I may be naive, but I think many people are just paranoid.

[Kratos]

while I don't agree 100% with all the actions the Obama administration is doing, I'm impressed that he is doing something. .

back in your football paying days
QB: "hike"
bgmc runs the wrong way down the field
Coach: "I'm impressed he's doing something"

[SMCengineer]

Hong Kong has socialized medicine and government regulation in many industries. As a matter of fact the US has less government regulation than Hong Kong, correct?

Incorrect, Hong Kong has less regulations and more economic freedom: http://web.archive.org/web/200802132.../countries.cfm. We also have quasi-socialized medicine here, which is my point, yet rising helathcare costs are blamed on the "free market." An absurb notion.

Blome, my point with what you call the "straw man" point, is while I don't agree 100% with all the actions the Obama administration is doing, I'm impressed that he is doing something. And I refuse to subscribe to the "chicken little" affect. Bush violated more constitutionalized rights than Obama, but yet Obama is being called the communist and/or socialist. I've yet to see why all this panick is going on. I may be naive, but I think many people are just paranoid.

The opinion that Obama is not violating the constitution 'as much' as Bush (a debateable point, to be sure) is not something to laud. Large injections of capital, on average, take about 2 years to move throughout the economy and create distortions. With trillions of dollar currently sitting in reserves and with more on the way, there is no way the dollar will not be adversely affected. This is where the worry comes from.

[ni4ni]

Bush violated more constitutionalized rights than .

he did?
which one's

[BgMc31]

he did?
which one's

Patriot Act ring a bell?

But here's more, read for yourself...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/185259/Bus...tion-Scorecard

back in your football paying days
QB: "hike"
bgmc runs the wrong way down the field
Coach: "I'm impressed he's doing something"

I played defense...LOL!!!
I understand your point, but I think is a little off base. I don't feel Obama totally "running the wrong way", but more like "running the wrong play". If you get my drift.

[ni4ni]

the one which increases the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States- that one?
The one protects you and your freedom?
O yeah...it's ringing a bell now.
3.5 more yrs of the socialist pig!!

[BgMc31]

the one which increases the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States- that one?
The one protects you and your freedom?
O yeah...it's ringing a bell now.
3.5 more yrs of the socialist pig!!

So you are willing to sacrifice freedoms in the name of a safety? Typical republican banter. What's the difference in that and stemming the sale and ownership of guns, then (which you claim Obama is trying to do? But of course he isn't). Aren't both in the name of safety? Make up your mind...

Anyway, what about his other violations that I posted under the link?

[thegodfather]

A public option is just that...A PUBLIC OPTION PAID FOR BY THE PUBLIC!!! Otherwise how do you suggest a 'public' option is paid for? In other western countries with 'universal healthcare' many/most of those have public options that are paid for by taxpayers.

Well, since I personally don't buy into the notion of social responsibility or moral hazard I have a huge problem with that. It would be illegal for my neighbor to come steal my money to spend on his healthcare. Yet, when government steals money from my check, and spends it on my neighbor to give him healthcare that suddenly becomes legal? It is an UNAPPORTIONED tax, and under the Constitution the only two permissible taxes are APPORTIONED AND EXCISE. Healthcare is NOT a right, because invariable government needs to steal a percentage of my money to provide a service to someone else. RIGHTS are only things which do not require an action to be protected. Rights are NEGATIVE FREEDOMS, meaning in all cases the government is RESTRAINED from doing something or infringing in a particular area. It does not require stealing from someone to give to someone else. If the government steals money from me to pay for someone else "right" to health care, it has infringed on my right to property. Positive freedoms like health care, housing, etc can ONLY be provided by infringing on the rights of others, and therefore makes them morally wrong.

[thegodfather]

So you are willing to sacrifice freedoms in the name of a safety? Typical republican banter. What's the difference in that and stemming the sale and ownership of guns, then (which you claim Obama is trying to do? But of course he isn't). Aren't both in the name of safety? Make up your mind...

Anyway, what about his other violations that I posted under the link?

Typical Republican banter? Because Hillary Clinton didn't vote for the Patriot Act. It would more accurately be described as typical neo-conservative/big government banter.

Under Bush, we lost the writ of Habeas Corpus, tortured people in violation of our own Constitution and international law, lost the 4th amendment, the 5th amendment, and the 1st amendment(see free speech zones). The violations against the Constitution and civil rights were disgraceful. Although not novel, because if you look at any point in US history, there has always been a contraction of rights during "wartime" under the guise that it would make the country safer. The United States is no safer today than it was on 9/10/01.

Under Obama, the practices of indefinite detention and denial of habeas corpus CONTINUE. Obama has conceded that there are some people who will NEVER BE CHARGED, because the evidence is so tainted against them because of torture, but who will NEVER BE RELEASED because they are considered "too dangerous." So the United States now deals life-term prison sentences to people without charging or trying them. Under Obama, he said we need to "Look forward, instead of looking to the past," which translated from political double speak basically means that he is letting hundreds of WAR CRIMINALS off the hook because it will be politically unpopular. Under Obama, the practice of warrantless wiretaps and searches CONTINUES, and under Obama the occupation of foreign lands and foreign intervention continues.

Change? The only changes that happened in Washington were faces.

[BgMc31]

Well, since I personally don't buy into the notion of social responsibility or moral hazard I have a huge problem with that. It would be illegal for my neighbor to come steal my money to spend on his healthcare. Yet, when government steals money from my check, and spends it on my neighbor to give him healthcare that suddenly becomes legal? It is an UNAPPORTIONED tax, and under the Constitution the only two permissible taxes are APPORTIONED AND EXCISE. Healthcare is NOT a right, because invariable government needs to steal a percentage of my money to provide a service to someone else. RIGHTS are only things which do not require an action to be protected. Rights are NEGATIVE FREEDOMS, meaning in all cases the government is RESTRAINED from doing something or infringing in a particular area. It does not require stealing from someone to give to someone else. If the government steals money from me to pay for someone else "right" to health care, it has infringed on my right to property. Positive freedoms like health care, housing, etc can ONLY be provided by infringing on the rights of others, and therefore makes them morally wrong.

GREAT POINTS, as usual Godfather. But, the fact that you don't buy into social responsibility flaws your argument, IMO. It seems that you believe everyone has the same access across the board, which is not true (and no I'm not specifically talking about minorities, just to be clear). The burden on social services by those who aren't insured is much greater than the tax burden imposed for a public option. For someone in my case (which I'm am sure you are too), I don't need the public option because my private healthcare is adequate for me and my family. But the county hospitals are overrun with people without insurance who go to the emergency room with headaches and belly aches. Only because they couldn't go to a primary care physician (which is much less expense), because they have no insurance. Who pays for that? Taxpayers (you and me), but the bill is much greater than that of a primary care physician, right? I hope you see my point.

[BgMc31]

Typical Republican banter? Because Hillary Clinton didn't vote for the Patriot Act. It would more accurately be described as typical neo-conservative/big government banter.

Under Bush, we lost the writ of Habeas Corpus, tortured people in violation of our own Constitution and international law, lost the 4th amendment, the 5th amendment, and the 1st amendment(see free speech zones). The violations against the Constitution and civil rights were disgraceful. Although not novel, because if you look at any point in US history, there has always been a contraction of rights during "wartime" under the guise that it would make the country safer. The United States is no safer today than it was on 9/10/01.

Under Obama, the practices of indefinite detention and denial of habeas corpus CONTINUE. Obama has conceded that there are some people who will NEVER BE CHARGED, because the evidence is so tainted against them because of torture, but who will NEVER BE RELEASED because they are considered "too dangerous." So the United States now deals life-term prison sentences to people without charging or trying them. Under Obama, he said we need to "Look forward, instead of looking to the past," which translated from political double speak basically means that he is letting hundreds of WAR CRIMINALS off the hook because it will be politically unpopular. Under Obama, the practice of warrantless wiretaps and searches CONTINUES, and under Obama the occupation of foreign lands and foreign intervention continues.

Change? The only changes that happened in Washington were faces.

Well played, sir...I digress. But I equate neoconservative banter to that of republican banter.

[ni4ni]

So you are willing to sacrifice freedoms in the name of a safety? Typical republican banter. What's the difference in that and stemming the sale and ownership of guns, then (which you claim Obama is trying to do? But of course he isn't). Aren't both in the name of safety? Make up your mind...

Anyway, what about his other violations that I posted under the link?

Then the NRA and just a couple (might be a few) others have misunderstood the zero you helped put in office...assuming you are old enough to vote.
Regarding the link...not interested in your BS liberal shiit.
have a nice day

[quarry206]

When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent. When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun. Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet.

I think this is a perfect saying.. this kind of sum's up whats wrong with america.. everybody keeps their mouths shut unless it effects them. but they don't realize that its a snowball effect. when you allow one area to be given up, you really give it all up..

and lets face it, the supreme court is about to get a justice here very soon that will throw the bill of rights out the window.

[Flagg]

Democracy is failing in my opinion and it's a combination of Government and lazy people.

We live in times now where most people have learned to manipulate democracy, crying wolf at first sign of injustice while abusing another part for their own ends.

People are also apathetic. How many people actually bother to vote? Isn't it just some 30% in America? And what are the choices, Democrat or Republican. Its the same in England, Labour or Conservative and when you strip it down there is no difference between the two leading parties. You might as well ask someone what they prefer, Pepsi or Coke. People will scream about lying politicians but if the masses actually bothered to vote then the same lying politicians wouldn't be consistantly voted back in all the time. We reward the liars, moan when after 4 years we've realised they've been lying to us the whole time, vote in the liar from "that other" party. A lot of the time people wont vote for the party they like more but vote against the party they least like. It's appalling ignorance and I think it's a deliberately encouraged by the Government and Media. Ignorance destroys democracy, and from a look at history this is usually the result of a democracy: people don't bother to govern themselves, and would much rather have someone else do it for them.

How do you solve such a stagnant state of affairs? By utterly changing the Media structure in the West and actually allowing the masses to be told THE TRUTH and to spread the truth! We are fed so much BS in the news that it makes us lazy and ignorant, and people are more concerned with whats happening on Pop Idol or Big Brother rather than how their countries economies are dissapearing.


This is the reality we live in today. People dont give a shit until its too late. As long as you can turn on idiot box and go to a Supermarket then nothing else matters to the average person in the West.