Why does Jay Cutler have the worst form?

**kaptainkeezy04** · 08-05-2009, 10:37 AM

Every time I see Jay Cutler working out on some video, his form is absolute garbage. He swings back and forth on every bicep exercise, and lateral raises, and just bounces the weight up and down on barbell rows, and t-bar rows. These are just a few of the exercises I have seen him perform, but you always hear pros preaching good form, and then to see them not practice what they preach is just annoying.

Just one example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hwzi6j03wA

You can see at 6:05 how Jay swings the weight on every single rep, and then his workout partner has much better form, and actually squeezes at the top and does slow negatives for his last few reps.

Jay is not the only one doing this, as I'm sure we've all seen ronnie get really good leg workouts from t-bar rows, but does this annoy anyone else?

**Panzerfaust** · 08-05-2009, 10:44 AM

You need to lay off the crack, Cutler has some of the best form in BB IMO.

Despite the swing, looks like he is hitting the bicep no problem.

Doesn't annoy me at all considering he is a goddamn monster. He does it most likely to take pressure off his joints and is looking to maximize contraction at the top of the movement.

**Matt** · 08-05-2009, 10:49 AM

J, Cutler is looking a little skinny......

**kaptainkeezy04** · 08-05-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

You need to lay off the crack, Cutler has some of the best form in BB IMO.

Despite the swing, looks like he is hitting the bicep no problem.

Doesn't annoy me at all considering he is a goddamn monster. He does it most likely to take pressure off his joints and is looking to maximize contraction at the top of the movement.

if you say so...and i'll lay off the crack.

**operationgetbig** · 08-05-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

You need to lay off the crack, Cutler has some of the best form in BB IMO.

Despite the swing, looks like he is hitting the bicep no problem.

Doesn't annoy me at all considering he is a goddamn monster. He does it most likely to take pressure off his joints and is looking to maximize contraction at the top of the movement.

most bb's ive seen use a slight swing with alot of exercises. it definately helps take pressure off the joints.

**CHAP** · 08-05-2009, 01:45 PM

I love to hear people crack on top level athletes. I mean come on this guy has and is one of the best in the world.

I think he know what is working and what isn't.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. And I do respect that it is Funny though.

**CHAP** · 08-05-2009, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

J, Cutler is looking a little skinny......

He does look like his size is alot smalleer than normal. Saw a video on FLEX recently and he was swole and looking as good as ever. Ronnie looked like crap.

I cant wait to see how well he pulls it togather for the olympia this year.

**ninesecz** · 08-05-2009, 02:02 PM

The reason for this is unlike 99% of us here, Jay Cutler has reached is genetic limits wether it be with or without Steroids , he is not getting any bigger! He has been the same size within a few pounds for 5-7 years now! He no longer needs perfect form and concentration on each muscle / bodypart. He is just training to get the good pump and maintain his muscle size and mass. He does the exercises however he feels they give him the best pump and burn to the muscle! Trust me it is not like Jay Cutler could have been 20# heaveier had he used better form! He has put in his time with perfect form and no longer needs to do that anymore! He is Maxed Out!

**kaptainkeezy04** · 08-05-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

The reason for this is unlike 99% of us here, Jay Cutler has reached is genetic limits wether it be with or without Steroids, he is not getting any bigger! He has been the same size within a few pounds for 5-7 years now! He no longer needs perfect form and concentration on each muscle / bodypart. He is just training to get the good pump and maintain his muscle size and mass. He does the exercises however he feels they give him the best pump and burn to the muscle! Trust me it is not like Jay Cutler could have been 20# heaveier had he used better form! He has put in his time with perfect form and no longer needs to do that anymore! He is Maxed Out!

So, at his level, there is no need for perfect form anymore. I just find that hard to believe that he could not benefit at all from it.

**Immortal Soldier** · 08-05-2009, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04

So, at his level, there is no need for perfect form anymore. I just find that hard to believe that he could not benefit at all from it.

Correct, perfect form is not needed at his level and to be honest, due to the massive amount of muscle they have its HARD for them to have perfect form because first and foremost the muscles start getting in the way of the movement of the exercise. So you see pros go for pumps now more because they are allowed to "cheat" a little at that stage of body development.

**OH REALLY** · 08-05-2009, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04

So, at his level, there is no need for perfect form anymore. I just find that hard to believe that he could not benefit at all from it.

didn't we tell you to lay off the crack?....

**playboii** · 08-05-2009, 03:38 PM

yeah im nowhere near jay but i also find myself having to cheat slightly because the muscle is in the way..especially when i do alternating curls

**playboii** · 08-05-2009, 03:43 PM

ok im watchin the youtube video...jay is fking huge wtf..and i think his form is good..

**playboii** · 08-05-2009, 03:50 PM

and btw when you swing down it takes off ALOT of pressure from your joints and i know that from experience..that little movement makes a huge difference

**kaptainkeezy04** · 08-05-2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by OH REALLY

didn't we tell you to lay off the crack?....

I never see Dexter Jackson going excessively heavy, or swinging any weight, and he has the most dense, and most mature looking muscle on stage in my opinion, as well as the best physique.

**Polska** · 08-05-2009, 05:49 PM

I'd say with the poundages he throws around "perfect form" would be detrimental to the joints. His form is pretty good regardless

**DSM4Life** · 08-05-2009, 06:14 PM

I agree his form is off but look at him. I guess it works for him.

**quarry206** · 08-05-2009, 06:36 PM

well in some ways, he is only swinging on the negative, he isn't arching his back on the way up...

tho he is rocking its only on the negative, maybe like people have said he was trying to save his joints some stress

**ninesecz** · 08-05-2009, 06:46 PM

beleive me KaptainKeezy the only reason I am so confident anf know the answer to this is because 3 months ago I downloaded all of Jay Cutlers videos, watched them and thought the same thing.. "How is this guy this big and using form like this on every exercise?" I started looking into it and he actually makes a reference to it in one of the videos, cant remember which one and I also seen an article in one of the magazines.. and Yes, when you are that big and your muslces are as large as the top pro's are, they do not need to be trained like mine or yours do! As We said, It really can not do anymore benefitting to him if yoy look back he was the exact same size and weight in 2001. If this was the case he would have lost/ or fixed his form and gained at least 3-4# a year and would make it like 25+#since 2001! It just aint going to happen, he has no more muscle to gain he is maxed out! All he can do know is imrprove his overall package and make sure everything is in proportion and maybe work on making his waist smaller, muscles more defined! And here is my theory, He is bigger, richer, and has been the worlds best bodybuilder... I have not 1% of anyplace to question anything he does!! It obviously works for him! and as he will tell ya just like we will The Diet is the absolute key! without it the exercises would not even help!! 5 pounds of Orange Roughy Every Day!! thats is 35# a week and a total of over 500# of fish in the 16 weeks leading up to the "O" Contest!

**DSM4Life** · 08-05-2009, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

beleive me KaptainKeezy the only reason I am so confident anf know the answer to this is because 3 months ago I downloaded all of Jay Cutlers videos, watched them and thought the same thing.. "How is this guy this big and using form like this on every exercise?" I started looking into it and he actually makes a reference to it in one of the videos, cant remember which one and I also seen an article in one of the magazines.. and Yes, when you are that big and your muslces are as large as the top pro's are, they do not need to be trained like mine or yours do! As We said, It really can not do anymore benefitting to him if yoy look back he was the exact same size and weight in 2001. If this was the case he would have lost/ or fixed his form and gained at least 3-4# a year and would make it like 25+#since 2001! It just aint going to happen, he has no more muscle to gain he is maxed out! All he can do know is imrprove his overall package and make sure everything is in proportion and maybe work on making his waist smaller, muscles more defined! And here is my theory, He is bigger, richer, and has been the worlds best bodybuilder... I have not 1% of anyplace to question anything he does!! It obviously works for him! and as he will tell ya just like we will The Diet is the absolute key! without it the exercises would not even help!! 5 pounds of Orange Roughy Every Day!! thats is 35# a week and a total of over 500# of fish in the 16 weeks leading up to the "O" Contest!

What language is this ?

**ninesecz** · 08-05-2009, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

What language is this ?

I dont understand DSM??? Did I spell some stuff wrong or what.. I am all confused.. Not with my sexuality but with this statement.

**IronReload04** · 08-05-2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04

So, at his level, there is no need for perfect form anymore. I just find that hard to believe that he could not benefit at all from it.

1. like others have said, training at 300 pounds is a different story then training at 200 pounds. training with the weights he trains with, he is gonna be more susceptible to tearing shit, which is why form has to be altered to prevent injury

2. at 300 pounds, you are not going to be having the same range of motion you did 100 pounds ago

3. mind muscle connection. I have seen this discussed among the elite before. they say alot of intermediates will talk down at form a pro uses, when if you would look closer, you can see that they are contrary to what it might look like, really pushing their muscles in such a way that is astronomically conducive to muscle growth.

lasty, jay is probably not getting bigger probably because he hasnt changed his food intake and or training heaviness.

**IronReload04** · 08-05-2009, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Correct, perfect form is not needed at his level and to be honest, due to the massive amount of muscle they have its HARD for them to have perfect form because first and foremost the muscles start getting in the way of the movement of the exercise. So you see pros go for pumps now more because they are allowed to "cheat" a little at that stage of body development.

no....thats not how it works.

**TITANIUM** · 08-05-2009, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04

Every time I see Jay Cutler working out on some video, his form is absolute garbage. He swings back and forth on every bicep exercise, and lateral raises, and just bounces the weight up and down on barbell rows, and t-bar rows. These are just a few of the exercises I have seen him perform, but you always hear pros preaching good form, and then to see them not practice what they preach is just annoying.

Just one example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hwzi6j03wA

You can see at 6:05 how Jay swings the weight on every single rep, and then his workout partner has much better form, and actually squeezes at the top and does slow negatives for his last few reps.

Jay is not the only one doing this, as I'm sure we've all seen ronnie get really good leg workouts from t-bar rows, but does this annoy anyone else?

Bro, Jay is an extraordinary bodybuilder. Period.You can't talk down about him. Look at what his hard work and perseverance have gotten him.He is amazing to watch.Thanks for the post.I enjoyed watching it.

**ninesecz** · 08-05-2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by IronReload04

1. like others have said, training at 300 pounds is a different story then training at 200 pounds. training with the weights he trains with, he is gonna be more susceptible to tearing shit, which is why form has to be altered to prevent injury

2. at 300 pounds, you are not going to be having the same range of motion you did 100 pounds ago

3. mind muscle connection. I have seen this discussed among the elite before. they say alot of intermediates will talk down at form a pro uses, when if you would look closer, you can see that they are contrary to what it might look like, really pushing their muscles in such a way that is astronomically conducive to muscle growth.

lasty, jay is probably not getting bigger probably because he hasnt changed his food intake and or training heaviness.

Need to watch ALL his videos bro! As I stated above he actually mentions this in one of his videos and you are on the right track but what i posted is actually taken right out of his mouth from one of his videos! He is not getting any bigger cause he cant! If he could he wold have! You do not think would have loved to put on another 10-2-# of lean muscle to beat Ronnie all those years? And he actually says that at his size, the pump is the most important part! As I said above,he is looking to just harden his muscle and maintain is muscle mass. that is basically all he can do!

**jbm** · 08-05-2009, 09:55 PM

**scottythebody** · 08-05-2009, 10:05 PM

I see Jay at the gym every once in a while, next time I see him I will let him know his form sucks and give him some pointers

**ray0414** · 08-05-2009, 10:58 PM

those swings were pretty bad lol if i seen anyone at my gym curling like that i would think they were retarded.

**kaptainkeezy04** · 08-06-2009, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by jbm

If that is seriously what Jay looks like right now, then GAME OVER for this year's olympia. All he has to do is come to the contest in shape. Guys, I am not dissing Cutler, because I am a fan of his, but I was just under the assumption that he could gain something from training with better form.

**OH REALLY** · 08-06-2009, 07:59 AM

i think its all about what they are training for pre show strickt form off cycle cheating to force the weight up...

**Dukkit** · 08-06-2009, 08:08 AM

those of us that aren that huge and muscular also have to realize that we train NOW with correct form so that we dont hurt ourselves. if we swing too much with bi curls you can hurt your back and so on. on top of doin correct form for growth

but jay and all the pros have 100% solid muscle base and have trained with correct (or close to) form for years. their entire body is strong enough to handle non correct form cuz i highly doubt jay will hurt his lower back from swinging too much with bi curls. etc.

**ninesecz** · 08-06-2009, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by scottythebody

I see Jay at the gym every once in a while, next time I see him I will let him know his form sucks and give him some pointers

I have actually trained with him at Golds are Charleston and Decatur When I lived in Vegas.. And I tell you what if you did tell him that ! You would just make him laugh and he would say something like "bring the kid with the 15" guns in here to show me how to train these guns" then he would flex his 23" arms and laugh!!
Trust me, after watching his videos, and training with him, I have acually switched up my methods a little bit and that crazy swinging bad form shit works!! I started doing the 3 arm exercises we did.
Standing BB curls , Standing DB curls and H.S. Preacher and after 8 weeks I put an Inch on my arm!! He knows his shit and as I said before .. He and any other pro will tell you.... His diet and strictness with that is the key to success. Never ever missing a meal for any reason, not eating even an extra ounce, never changing or cheating, that is what builds a champion physique, The training sorry to say is a very small part of it!

Try this.. eat like crap for a year and train 100% that same year and see what you look like..

Eat 100% that year and train like crap.for that same year.. Now you tell me?? Which one gives you the better results??

I bet my life if you eat perfect and just did pushups and squat thrusts in a year you could look inceredible,,

But try never missing a meal, even when you go out of town (he travels constantly) never change your diet month after month... It is very very hard to do and that is how he lives!!

I eat very strict but still mis a meal all the time.. run late, stuck in traffic, Whatever... he would not stand for that and neither would his body!!
So remember stimulating those huge muscles is just a small small part of his overall routine... Everyone should watch his video's especially "all Access"

I think I might actually send him an e mail with a link to this thread!! I think he would get a kick out of it!!

**IronReload04** · 08-06-2009, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

I have actually trained with him at Golds are Charleston and Decatur When I lived in Vegas.. And I tell you what if you did tell him that ! You would just make him laugh and he would say something like "bring the kid with the 15" guns in here to show me how to train these guns" then he would flex his 23" arms and laugh!!
Trust me, after watching his videos, and training with him, I have acually switched up my methods a little bit and that crazy swinging bad form shit works!! I started doing the 3 arm exercises we did.
Standing BB curls , Standing DB curls and H.S. Preacher and after 8 weeks I put an Inch on my arm!! He knows his shit and as I said before .. He and any other pro will tell you.... His diet and strictness with that is the key to success. Never ever missing a meal for any reason, not eating even an extra ounce, never changing or cheating, that is what builds a champion physique, The training sorry to say is a very small part of it!

Try this.. eat like crap for a year and train 100% that same year and see what you look like..

Eat 100% that year and train like crap.for that same year.. Now you tell me?? Which one gives you the better results??

I bet my life if you eat perfect and just did pushups and squat thrusts in a year you could look inceredible,,

But try never missing a meal, even when you go out of town (he travels constantly) never change your diet month after month... It is very very hard to do and that is how he lives!!

I eat very strict but still mis a meal all the time.. run late, stuck in traffic, Whatever... he would not stand for that and neither would his body!!
So remember stimulating those huge muscles is just a small small part of his overall routine... Everyone should watch his video's especially "all Access"

I think I might actually send him an e mail with a link to this thread!! I think he would get a kick out of it!!

nice....exactly confirms what I have heard from other big guys myself.

**IronReload04** · 08-06-2009, 11:27 AM

what noobs see is bad form. But in reality, they have a superior mind muscle connection are lifting in such a way that is extremely conducive to progressing given their current situation under their current circumstances.

**ninesecz** · 08-06-2009, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by IronReload04

what noobs see is bad form. But in reality, they have a superior mind muscle connection are lifting in such a way that is extremely conducive to progressing given their current situation under their current circumstances.

Yes, I am not saying that they do not train good and that they are not getting a good workout.... Basically saying on a scale of 1-10 most of us are about a 3-4... Jay Cutler and other pros are all above an 8 and most are a 10 on a "hardcore training " scale! They know what they are doin and do it they way they need to getting the job at hand accomplished... Hugeness!!

**playboii** · 08-06-2009, 01:04 PM

i think that we all start off with the "perfect form" mindset but as have years of training on your belt and you listen to your body so you start to adapt to the way of working out that best suites you. their is really no right or wrong way of doing a certain exercise, is what you have to do to get the most feel out of it..if you find that by swinging a bit thats what makes you feel the biggest pump then do that..if you feel strict motion no swinging is your way then go that route..but i in the other hand could never be too strict on my motions due to my joints..