With all the BS surrounding healthcare in America I thought I'd see what everyone here thought about it.
100% gov't run single-payer healthcare for all?
A gov't health insurance option?
Should employers be required to provide?
More competition?
Or are things just fine now?
Other
Borderline Personality
With all the BS surrounding healthcare in America I thought I'd see what everyone here thought about it.
Last edited by Ernst; 09-18-2009 at 07:14 PM.
Associate Member
So, where's the pole?
Borderline Personality
I wish I knew.
Suspended or Banned either way gone!
damn
Last edited by Hoggage_54; 09-18-2009 at 07:52 PM. Reason: thread fixed
Associate Member
Last line right above the 'submit new thread' button. use the 'edit post'.Originally Posted by ErnstHatAngst
Anabolic Member
I think really the problem is the health care providers and insurance companies have things setup simply TOO good for themselves.
Maybe they are too business savvy but I defiantly feel the cost of health care is out of control.
In turn, it makes insurance cost skyrocket.
I think the biggest issue is the amount of money people pay for prescription drugs, and are on them for an extended period of time.
I honestly feel anti-depressants are really a big cause of the increased cost of health care.
Everyone is prescribed them for extended periods of time, everyone is depressed and a magic pill is not going to make it go away easy. When the cost comes down on them, there are 3 different "better" prescription anti-depressants that are better.
The drug reps and doctors have become drug pushers for a lot of these, and they all get kick backs or paid for them.
Productive Member
I'm in favor of the Swedish style of healthcare. Seems to be working great for them, granted there's a lot more people living here as opposed to there...not sure how great it would work for us.
I'm NOT in favor of government run anything...our government has never proven to be business savvy, and has been deep in the red on every private sector project they've ever taken on, why would this be any different? But something does need to change, the insurance companies are ridiculous. I pay quite a bit for my PPO and when I last reached my deductible they raised it on me...****ers. So, what exactly am I paying for? ****ed if I know.
Knowledgeable Member
Just to let you know if the government does run a universal health care problems these are some things to get ready for.....
1-Income taxes will double -here in Canada I pay about 40%
2-Certain items will become very heavily taxed (ie alcohol, cigarettes etc) We pay $45 for 24 cronas here in Canada does that sound right? $10 for a pack of smokes..(I dont smoke anyways)
3-The quality of health care will go down compared to the private system. Our free health care in Canada is attrocious and many people cannot find family doctors as there is a shortage because they all move away to more lucritive countries that offer private systems.
4-Wait times will become so bad that you might as well fly to a country like Cuba and have your operations done.
These are just a few of the problems you should expect will come with a universal health care system. Also expect sales taxes to rise too. Nothing will be free!
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
not the drug companies fault that people have to take their shit for extended periods of time....they're in business to make money, and they have to recoup the ENORMOUS cost of developing a drug in it's price...simple as that, economics....you start ****ing with their ability to make money by making everything artificially cheaper and guess what happens? they don't develop new drugs that could cure other things.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
*looks scared* yea.....sooo where am i moving if this shit passes? not staying here...
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference
dont come to England...pretty much same as canada.....
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
i was thinking somewhere in south america where no one would ever wanna drop a nuke....
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference
i want to travel America and Canada..........and move to Australia.....OZZ is the way forward.......
Knowledgeable Member
Things have not hit rock bottom yet guys .
The erosion of the housing market is still eroding the tax base .
There will need to be more job cuts in city , state and federal governments .
1 year more year of decay .
If employers didn't burden the cost of health care , maybe we would be more competitive .
I would rather work and pay high % in taxes than be unemployed .
Government run system will create jobs and more people will be medically cared for .
The people that are up in arms are the lucky ones with jobs and health care.
Put yourself in place of others and see if you feel the same way .
Knowledgeable Member
Ontario has over 10% un-employment so what you are saying is not relevant. The businesses here are not the ones paying the bill for health care and they are still slashing jobs like crazy. The economy is going through what is called a market correction, too many jobs were created and demand for service and products went down meaning the jobs could not be supported.I would rather work and pay high % in taxes than be unemployed .
This statement offends me deeply. I work in the car industry and make roughly 50% of what I did last year. If I had gone on EI at the end of last year I would have received 55% from the government so save your crying for someone else.Put yourself in place of others and see if you feel the same way .
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
need I REMIND you who caused the housing market collapse? oh yea...that would be the US gov't
and a gov't run healthcare system will do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. it will end up rationing healthcare so that the people that deserve it (aka they can PAY!!!) can't get the care they can rightly buy. I don't have health insurance...and i'm SERIOUSLY up in arms. I will not take such a socialist atrocity sitting down
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
unfortunately socialist pigs think that if the gov't ran everything it would all be hunky dory and there would be no market corrections.......well yea....but if you don't have a market then what do you have? NOTHING!!! there would be no impetus to succeed at all!!!!! all progress would halt indefinitely!!!
Associate Member
Your health is the most important thing in life without it nothing matters. Money is nothing but paper in the end.
The current problems in the world are all due to greed. Wallstreet, housing market, etc........everyone for themselves. I think America is coming to the breaking point if this continues. As for we Canadians we just keep taking in the a.ss and keep smiling.
p.s without lube.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
greed: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth
well since ones NEEDS and what they DESERVE can only be determined by that person then who is anyone else to say that someone has too much? that's bullshit. My life is MINE. It is not something that people get to divide up and make judgments on....wtf is wrong with you people?????
there's nothing at all wrong with wallstreet, you work you make money, you're smarter than the other guy you make money....how is this a problem???
the housing crash was CAUSED by the ****tarded gov't. Started under clinton...saying that oh poor bastards....everyone deserves the american dream...lets make it so everyone can have a house...then they FORCED the banks to start handing out subprime loans. So it is a SOCIALISTIC bullshit concept that caused the housing crash...not greed.
Dulce bellum inexpertis
Haha.....In England, there are 1.7 million people employed by the NHS. The number of administrators outnumbers health care practitioners. Does that make sense to you? Don't administrators typically oversee multiple employee's? That is a perfect example of government largess, waste, and inefficiency.
What is even more laughable about what you said, is that government jobs do not produce wealth. They do not produce profits either. Government can only CONSUME. The private sector produces wealth. For instance, when 100,000 jobs were lost in England, the PM created 30,000 new government jobs. It is an illusion, it appears as if people are employed and the economy is functioning, when it is actually making the problem worse.
Done wasting my breath.
Knowledgeable Member
Trust me , there will still be short lines for the rich . Sorry there is no longer a middle class .
Government did not cause housing market to fall apart . The erosion of jobs as greedy companies sent work out of the country . What is suppose to happen when you pick apart unions and cut wages ?
Knowledgeable Member
[QUOTE=redz;4868948]Ontario has over 10% un-employment so what you are saying is not relevant. The businesses here are not the ones paying the bill for health care and they are still slashing jobs like crazy. The economy is going through what is called a market correction, too many jobs were created and demand for service and products went down meaning the jobs could not be supported.
This statement offends me deeply. I work in the car industry and make roughly 50% of what I did last year. If I had gone on EI at the end of last year I would have received 55% from the government so save your crying for someone else.[/QUOTE
Sorry to offend you . I built cars for 8 years . Been there done that . I was downsized years ago .
I have a good job where I will retire from . Beverage business . So the tears I have are not for me .
The world is the same shit hole and you want it to change without changing anything . You can't keep liberating country's trying to change the world when your own country is no role model for anything but corporate greed .
Anabolic Member
I tend to agree with the freak here.
We did really get into a pinch with the housing market, and it was really caused by sub prime loans.
Kind of makes you wonder if taking care of the poor is really a good idea. Poor people tend to be irresponsible.
But I guess the irresponsible ones are probably already on some government program.
My ex use to work in ER and they had "regulars", that always amazed me.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
are you high?? ANY decent business person would send jobs out of this country if they have to pay them significantly less and get the same amount of productivity out of them. We seem to think our mostly unskilled labor force in this country is important and deserving of WAYYYYY more than it really is. Unions should no longer exist.....i know maybe you're a little rusty on your capitalism but guess what....a company EXISTS to make MONEY....and in that vane it is their responsibility to their shareholders to run a business as profitably as they possibly can. And if that means moving jobs to countries where factory workers are actually more realistic about their worth then so be it.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
I don't wonder at all...i KNOW its a horrible idea....poor people wont do what it takes. And evolutionarily those that can't do what it takes are supposed to die out....THAT is where any stagnation that we have as a species is coming from, evolution not running it's appropriate course and this notion that we have some sort of inherent 'responsibility' to our fellow man. It's ABSURD to think that someone else DESERVES ANY of the money that I would work hard for, or hell, even any money that i don't work hard for. Any money i earn is MINE to decide to do with as i wish....it's not the gov'ts to divide up among those that 'need' it!!!
Anabolic Member
socialism is comunism.
some old school american presidents and law makers said it.
but of course, they are funded and supported by drug companies, and insurance companies.
but, we cant have a communist country. caring for everyone is a bad thing. it'll make the country even more broke!
even though britain covers everyone (even tourists!) and canada has full coverage.
none of our banks/institutions/businesses took any bailout money, and all banks posted profit.
yet, socialism is bad.
sounds more like greed.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
the bolded part is correct...i dunno wtf else you're getting at. If a person can't live their life i don't see how they 'deserve' to have it. What they deserve is to die off and make room for the strong like good little sacrifices. That is evolution, that's how a species progresses....and people wonder why we're plagues with more and more diseases? oh i dunno....we seem to wanna keep all the poor and sick alive so they can procreate and dumb down the gene pool to the point of extinction.
Anabolic Member
the outline of your message is this: greed and selfishness.
easy as that.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
I believe in having as much money as could ever want if i'm earning it and i also believe that if you don't put yourself first in your life and live it for yourself then quite frankly you are a pathetic excuse for a human. Your life is YOURS to live, no one else can dictate it.
as i said above....greed is relative, and EVERYONE defines what they need and deserve differently. As such, it is no one else's concern how much money you have, period, it's not theirs to worry about. And if you're christian, i believe they get off on not judging others??? well saying that someone is greedy is a judgment.....soooo woo hoo ur goin to hell, at least i think that's how that silliness works.
Knowledgeable Member
I'd sacrifice my life before that of my family or loved ones. You sound like a terribly bitter human being who blames life for anything that has gone wrong rather than holding account of your own actions. Greed is the reason why the whole planet is in a Global Recession.
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
you're confused, you just furthered my point. YOU would make the decision to save your family and/or loved ones over yourself. So YOUR life would not be worth living without them in it. Of course the better scenario is figuring out how to kill the assailant AND live, but it is more than understandable that one would not want to go through life without those that make it complete. What i refer to is complete strangers that i care nothing for, why would i die for them? I wouldn't, would you?
Knowledgeable Member
I guess you have beaten me . I guess we should go back to slaves and masters . There should be no unions , ok . Lets have companies make tons of money and workers make nothing . Oh wait , who will by the products and services ?
I guess anything else would be giving the weak a bone .
Once you have built your castle , have fun guarding it . When the starved have nothing to lose , guess what ?
Ask me if I'm high . That is coming from a dillusionist who will cry when they are victimized . When you have been around a while , maybe you understand there has to be a balance .
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
who said anything about going back to slaves and masters? and union workers get paid ABSURDLY for what their workers do on average. And THAT is why the jobs continually move overseas, companies simply can't afford to keep them here.
Knowledgeable Member
Ok . Who will buy anything if there is no money ? You are talking about 10 % of the people with 90 % of the money .
Why don't you keep buying foreign products then ?
What happens when all the people work for minimum wage ?
Then they only get bare necessities . There has to be commerce .
Money is only created from debt .
I have lived past my 1/2 way point , So good luck fixing the mess if you have all the answers .
I have never claimed to be smart or educated in any way .
I did work in a auto plant , I went into supervision and watched the over payed workers complain . 3 years before I was downsized I saw the necessary evil .
Like I said before , there has to some kind of balance . I don't know what it is . But you seemed to know alot .
Good luck !
Purveyor of Thor's Hammer
if everyone worked for minimum wage then all products would be significantly cheaper because companies would have to incur less cost to produce them in the first place. So then everyone would be able to afford them. And the rich are the job creators, they are the the ones that can buy items like yachts that create or further what....probably a couple hundred jobs along the creation of one? Not to mention that if one owned a very large yacht it would employ a crew, so that's completely new jobs right there.
No middle class individual can accomplish such a thing with their buying power, there's just no way. And most jobs a middle classer would 'create' with their purchases would be paid MUCH less than the crew of a yacht would be.
this is all simple economics...i don't understand how some people can't comprehend the concepts. Let people have more of their money, they can buy more things like yachts. Don't pay people astronomical sums for simplistic jobs and the services and goods become significantly cheaper and more people can afford to buy them and as such MORE money is made.
back to healthcare, i recently conducted poll of over 20,000 physicians found that over 44% of them would quit if healthcare was privatized...why? because they would no longer be profitable....anything the gov't sticks their dirty little fingers into becomes a money loser....and then you lead to rationing of health-care and so even if you've worked hard and saved up or have insurance you wont be able to get care because of all the worthless SOBs that are supposedly equal to you and are in line in front of you on the governments' tab...which is of course really all of our tabs. I just can't even FATHOM how anyone can think that other people deserve their hard earned money....wtf is wrong with you people????? WAKE UP
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