Recent string of pro BBers dying lately has scared me

[corsa5000]

So i was browsing the web last night checking out some bodybuilding stuff and i came across a few stories from tom prince, munzer and some others about bodybuilder deaths etc. Then a thread popped up with a longggg list of bodybuilders who have died or have had a life threatening health problem.

Anyway the scary thing is that all of these guys had died of something you would usually hear the media bashing steroid use for- heart attack being the main one.

So now its made me stand back and consider everything because there does seem to be a correlation between these pro's and heart failure.

Any thoughts on this?

[Mooseman33]

with the amounts of chems they use it does not surprise me.

steroids are serious, to many people on here and in the world think they have no real danger.
even if used properly, long time excessive use i believe is very dangerous.

i look at it like this, when a stuntman dies doing some crazy ass shit im not surprised, it goes with the territory.
just like when a bb dies, its part of the game.....

[J-Dogg]

with the amounts of chems they use it does not surprise me.

steroids are serious, to many people on here and in the world think they have no real danger.
even if used properly, long time excessive use i believe is very dangerous.

i look at it like this, when a stuntman dies doing some crazy ass shit im not surprised, it goes with the territory.
just like when a bb dies, its part of the game.....

Not only that, but living the life, eating the way, being the size of a pro BB is not really healthy either.

Just because body fat is low, does not mean you are cardiovascular healthy. If you are walking around at 300+ pounds in the off season, even if you are less body fat than most of the general population, that's a lot of work on your heart.

[drdeath613]

but u also have to remember some bodybuilders did other things besides steroids

take mike mentzer he was known for taking amphetamines and even tho he may have kicked the habit 10 years before his death the damage may have already been done

his brother ray died from bergers disease

im sure u can trace just about all bodybuilders deaths down to using a drug for speed pain to relax the body to help u eat

alot of the bodybuilders from the hippy time used something

[Kratos]

wrestling is no joke either, pre-mature death rate I've read is reported somewhere between 400-700% hight the human average. Common causes by far, heart attack, suicide, drug overdose.

Chris Von Erich - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Owen Hart - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49

[Mooseman33]

i hear u Dr.Death...

but the constant with BB is the AAS abuse.
i agree the other rec. drugs is the straw that breaks the camels back, but the focus should be on steroid abuse .

[Mooseman33]

wrestling is no joke either, pre-mature death rate I've read is reported somewhere between 400-700% hight the human average. Common causes by far, heart attack, suicide, drug overdose.

Chris Von Erich - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Owen Hart - 33 Chris Candido - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49

he really should not be on the list.
he died when his safety cable broke and he fell couple hundred feet from the roof to the floor during a live show.
he had really bad luck....

[FranciscoG]

You would be amazed how many guys use priscription drugs, benzos and opiates, and how so many of the guys that compete look at rec. drugs as not a big deal.

The problem is when you combine the two.

[Mooseman33]

2 words...

craig titus.....

AAS / rec drugs......

[FranciscoG]

King Kamali and X.

[NVR2BIG1]

The #1 problem with being on high dosages for long periods of time is your good/bad cholesterol ratio. I get my bloodwork done every year as required by my job, the first couple years weren't so bad, the last couple have been a wake up call. But then again, the last 2 tests were done while either on steroids or just coming off them. So I dont think the test was 100% accurate. The next time they test I'm going to be sure to be clean for a minimum of 3-4 months and see if the numbers improve. I'm not even going to candy coat it, my cholesterol ratio showed I was 6-8x greater risk for "future cardiac event" than the average person. And your talking about someone who has never gone above a gram/wk of test and as a rule of thumb is under 1.5 grams/wk TOTAL w/ everything in the mix. Now clen , I wont touch that shit anymore, clen is worse for your heart than anything.

[Kratos]

he really should not be on the list.
he died when his safety cable broke and he fell couple hundred feet from the roof to the floor during a live show.
he had really bad luck....

he's dead, that's why he's on the list
they aren't steroid related deaths, just deaths

a big part of the reason they die is because of the injuries in the ring...they get hurt, take pain pills to feel better, but then they have no energy so they do coke...then they're on a cocktail of roids booz, bitches, sleep depervation, and travel...add in a few head injuries to contribute to depression and it's all part of the puzzle.

[intensityfreak]

well thanks alot im freaked out now. guess ill make an appointment to go get my blood work done...lol

[intensityfreak]

i check my bp like everyother day to..lol

[FranciscoG]

he's dead, that's why he's on the list
they aren't steroid related deaths, just deaths

a big part of the reason they die is because of the injuries in the ring...they get hurt, take pain kills to feel better, but then they have no energy so they do coke...then they're on a cocktail of roids booz, bitches, sleep depervation, and travel...add in a few head injuries to contribute to depression and it's all part of the puzzle.

Not to mention they do all that and most don´t take a break.

Its not a beng but a full time thing.

[Kratos]

A new study finds high rates of memory-related diseases in former players in the National Football League. The NFL commissioned the report by the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research. The study reported rates of Alzheimer's Disease and other memory-related illnesses to be 19 times greater in pro football players than for other men ages 30 to 49. Dr. Bennet Omalu and Pablo Torre, of Sports Illustrated, talks about the new study.

NFL players are up to five times as likely as their fans to have depression

[Kratos]

The amazing athletes of the National Football League -- bigger and stronger than ever before -- are dying young at a rate experts find alarming, and many of the players are succumbing to ailments typically related to weight.

The heaviest athletes are more than twice as likely to die before their 50th birthday than their teammates, according to a Scripps Howard News Service study of 3,850 professional-football players who have died in the last century.

“ Do you see any oversized animals anywhere in the world living a long life? We're pretty much on our own here. ”
— Tony Siragusa


Most of the 130 players born since 1955 who have died were among the heaviest athletes in sports history, according to the study. One-fifth died of heart diseases, and 77 were so overweight that doctors would have classified them as obese, the study found.



The bone-crushing competitiveness of professional football is spawning hundreds of these behemoths -- many of whom top the scales at 300 pounds or more -- and the pressure to super-size now extends to younger players in college and even high school.

As America anticipates Sunday's Super Bowl -- the annual orgy of admiration for the NFL and its athletes -- physicians are increasingly questioning whether, by bulking up for their shot at fame and fortune, players are sacrificing their health later in life.

"Clearly, these big, fat guys are having coronaries," said Charles Yesalis, a Penn State professor of health policy and sport science.

The trend lines are even more disturbing.

Twenty years ago, it was rare for a player to weigh 300 pounds. But more than 500 players were listed at that weight or more on NFL training-camp rosters this summer -- including San Francisco 49ers guard Thomas Herrion, who collapsed and died after an exhibition game in August.

The relatively recent explosion in the number of 300-pound linemen "presents a frightening picture in terms of what we might expect 20 years from now," said Dr. Sherry Baron, who studied the issue in 1994 for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.


Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images
The 49ers paid tribute to Thomas Herrion on during an exhibition game six days after he died.
Baron's study, conducted at the request of the NFL Players Association, found that while players generally weren't dying sooner than average, offensive and defensive linemen had a 52 percent greater risk of dying from heart disease than the general population.

The Scripps Howard study suggests that the risk for those heaviest players is increasing, although exact comparisons to the general population were impossible to make because so many factors -- heredity, sedentary lifestyles, eating habits, as well as size -- contribute to heart disease.

"We know that the body mass index levels have shifted since our 1994 study," Baron said. "More [football players] now would be considered obese."

Scripps Howard was able to compare mortality rates for professional-football players with the 2,403 Major League Baseball players who have died in the last century. The comparison found that football players are more than twice as likely to die before age 50. Asked to speculate on the cause for this difference, experts noted that football players generally are heavier than baseball players.

The threat isn't lost on retired players, who acknowledge that they are spooked by the potential problems they now face.

"Do you see any oversized animals anywhere in the world living a long life?" asked Tony "Goose" Siragusa, a 340-pound defensive tackle for 12 seasons with the Indianapolis Colts and Baltimore Ravens. "We're pretty much on our own here."

The Scripps Howard study tracked the deaths of 3,850 pro-football players born since 1905. Medical examiners and coroners were contacted to determine the causes of death for the 130 players who died before age 50. The study found:

The Complete Study
Scripps Howard News Service studied 3,850 professional-football players who have died in the last century. What they found, and some issues it raised, are chronicles here:

• Study: NFL players dying young at alarming rate
• Compared to baseball, football players die younger
• Bigger isn't better as far as health is concerned
• Evidence is clear: Preps are getting bigger, too


• Twenty-eight percent of all pro-football players born in the last century who qualified as obese died before their 50th birthday, compared with 13 percent who were less overweight.

• One of every 69 players born since 1955 is now dead.

• Twenty-two percent of those players died of heart diseases; 19 percent died from homicides or suicides.

• Seventy-seven percent of those who died of heart diseases qualified as obese, even during their playing days, and they were 2½ times more likely to die of coronaries than their trimmer teammates.

• Only 10 percent of deceased players born from 1905 through 1914 were obese while active. Today, 56 percent of all players on NFL rosters are categorized as obese.

• The average weight in the NFL has grown by 10 percent since 1985 to a current average of 248 pounds. The heaviest position, offensive tackle, went from 281 pounds two decades ago to 318 pounds.

The NFL has expressed concern over whether players are obese and risking health problems.

Forgotten in the frenzy surrounding Super Bowl XL is the tragic way the season started. The 6-foot-3, 315-pound Herrion collapsed in the 49ers' locker room after the team's Aug. 20 exhibition in Denver. An autopsy showed that his heart was scarred and oversized and that heart disease had blocked his right coronary artery. He was only 23.

At a memorial service for Herrion, NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue pointed out that he already had asked medical experts to study the cardiovascular health of players. That study is incomplete.

"We need to understand in a serious way what the risks are, to the extent that there are risk factors," Tagliabue told reporters. "We've got to address them. We are working on it."

But in a statement, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello dismissed the Scripps Howard study, saying: "The issue of obesity in our society transcends sports and must be dealt with in a comprehensive, responsible way. This media survey contributes nothing."

Tagliabue wouldn't comment for this article.

The NFL also criticized a 2003 study by University of North Carolina endocrinologist Joyce Harp. Published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, the study found that 56 percent of NFL players were obese according to their body-mass indexes -- the government standard based on height and weight.

The Scripps Howard study also used the body-mass index to determine whether a player was obese. The NFL says it believes that standard is misleading because it doesn't account for the player's muscles. But many experts disagree and say that body-mass index is a valid indication that a player may face greater health risks.

"When you get that big -- regardless of whether your body is muscle or fat -- your heart is stressed," Penn State's Yesalis said.

"Is it good for guys to be that big? Of course not," he said. "I fully support a weight limit of 275 pounds. It would reduce injuries and have a positive effect on the short- and long-term health of these men."

The NFL Players Association declined to comment for this article. But Kevin Guskiewicz, director of the Sports Medicine Research Laboratory at the University of North Carolina, is conducting research for the association on the issue. He said he is alarmed at the information he sees.

"We are finding a number of health issues among these players," Guskiewicz said. "They clearly have higher prevalence of cardiovascular disease and hypertension, especially in the offensive and defensive linemen. And it clearly is higher than in the general population."

Defensive lineman William "The Refrigerator" Perry almost single-handedly brought 300-pounders into vogue when he became a pop sensation for the Chicago Bears. As a goal-line running back, he bulled his way to a touchdown in Super Bowl XX in 1986. Perry, who topped out at 370 pounds during his career, said he has actually gained some weight in retirement but tries not to dwell on the risks.

"I've been big all my life," Perry said. "Mental attitude is as important as your physical condition after the NFL. I try to keep a happy balance."

Weighty Issue
In November 2004, ESPN.com's Page 2 looked at the size of NFL players. Take a look back at what we found:

• Caple: The NFL is living large
• '04 NFL weight rankings
• Large and small of it
• '79 Steelers vs. '04 Steelers




Several retired players said they believe that losing weight is an issue of life or death.

"We've all got to remember to shed that armor when our NFL career is over," said Jim Lachey, who is 25 pounds lighter since the days he weighed 294 while an offensive tackle for the San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders and Washington Redskins from 1985-95. "A lot of guys are doing it. But, I know, there are others with injuries that prevent them from running and doing the things they must do to shed the weight."

Tony Mandarich -- nicknamed "The Incredible Bulk" while playing guard at 325 pounds for the Green Bay Packers -- said he gained even more weight after retiring and soon was put on high-blood-pressure medicine.

"My doctor asked me, 'How many 320-pound men who are 80 years old do you see walking around?' That's when the lightbulb came on over my head," Mandarich said.

He changed his diet, began hiking and mountain-biking regularly, and shed 60 pounds. "That doesn't mean I won't die of a heart attack at 39, but I've given myself the best chance,'' said Mandarich, who is 39 now.

The wakeup for many retired players came with the 2004 death of two-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year Reggie White, known for his passionate religious faith and pass-rushing skills. He died at age 43 of cardiac arrhythmia compounded by breathing disorders.

"When I heard that Reggie had died, the first thing that came into my head was that I hoped he'd let himself go and was out of shape," Mandarich said. "Because if he was in shape, it's not a good thing for any of us."

Actually, White had dropped about 25 pounds from his playing weight of 325, members of his family said. But he also suffered from sarcoidosis, or inflammation in his lungs, which led to thunderous snoring and a profound sleep apnea.

"These guys live such an extreme lifestyle with their weight that they are going to be prone to hypertension, diabetes and coronary artery disease. There is no question about it," said Dr. Barry Maron, director of the Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy Center at the Minneapolis Heart Institute Foundation.

Several medical examiners contacted by Scripps Howard remarked on the size of retired players who died of heart-related causes.

"He was a rather big boy at 6-foot-2 and 498 pounds," said Steve Gelman of the San Francisco Medical Examiner's office when asked why Joe Drake, a retired guard for the San Francisco 49ers and the Philadelphia Eagles, died in 1994 at 31.

"Essentially, he had clogged arteries and a heart attack. Mr. Drake was going out to lunch with some friends when he complained of sweating and nausea just before he collapsed on the street next to his car," Gelman said.

Willis Leggett of Muskogee, Okla., said he does not blame football for the death of former Eagles offensive guard and tackle Scott Leggett. Doctors told Leggett that his son died of congestive heart failure at age 35.

"God put Scott on this earth and God took him off," Leggett said. "If he hadn't played football, he probably would have died sooner. Football was his goal and that's what he wanted to do. No one could change his mind."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2313476

[Nicotine]

it's the AAS use
the yo yo dieting
stress
the heart has to support 250-300lbs of mass..fat or not, it's still mass that has to be supported.
the insane amount of food the body is continually processing

and if you have a genetic predisposeal to a health issue, all of the above will magnify it even more so.

[corsa5000]

Its really made me step back and take a look at a lot of the things i read on various boards. Some people saying its fine to use 2g test a week and saying they will never have any problems. Its hard to know wether the steroids are the main issue with these young pro's dying of heart problems, or if the main attributor is something else they are loading up on. All i know is now im going to be scared as hell to mess with many anabolics and having a limit on the doses is something i will make sure of in future.

[Hate Being Small]

IM just gonna stay natural i think why take the risk ye obviously if u take steroids u will get bigger than u usually could but i just don't wanna take the risk just for bigger muscles

[firsttimer555]

once you do that first cycle to you have to keep cycling

[The Deuce]

WOW... ok guys.. yah so what bodybuilders die. NEWSFLASH. Everyone dies. You can have a heart attack for any reason at any time. You can never touch a steroid ever, maintain a healthy lifestyle.. then smack drop dead of a heart attack at 33.

Or you can pump massive amounts of AAS into your body and kick it at 40, 50, 60... whenever it is time for God to call you home.. it's time.

Point is. It's your ride. You know the possibility of the risks of having heart issues later in life from using AAS. But .. to those of us who don't give a sweet flying fvxk.. then that's just that.

If you are scared. Go to Church.

If you are scared. Don't use AAS... eat right.. lift and do cardio... DIE ANYWAY!!

What makes the decision easy for me, I have FAITH and BELIEF in knowing that this isn't the End for me.. I know I will be saved and my soul will spend eternity in Heaven.

You know who I feel sorry for?? All those people out there that are like. I'm all set. I'm good. I don't need God. I'm set. Me. I am all Good.


I don't want to turn this to a religion topic because as God as my witness.. it will just all go to hell.


But what if you are wrong. What if when you die and you are put in front of the Lord. And he asks you, My Son, why didn't you believe in me. What could have possibly caused you to not have faith .. what will you say?

What will you say if your soul is sent to eternal damnation to burn .. forever.. not like 1,000,000 years.. but Eternity. I don't know about ya'll but that right there is A LOT SCARIER than some bodybuilders dropping dead of heart attacks.

I'm just saying that's all...

Guys, do you. If you want to be a pro-bodybuilder than you know you have to run some pretty hefty cycles.. some HEAVY DUTY CYCLES. Knowing to grab that muscle tissue and hold onto it to become the best..

KNOW THAT IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.. Then KNOW that you might.. just MIGHT die of a heart attack at some point..

Or.. get in your car today to go to work and get t-boned by a Mack Truck..

I don't care what I do in this life because I know it to be a glimmer. My soul will last forever... But hell.. At least I'll Look Great in a Casket

[Vitruvian-Man]

if you are scared. Go to church.

haahhahahahahahahahahahahhhhhaahhahahahhaha!!!!!!! !!!1

ice cubeeee!!!! Lolll.

[DSM4Life]

This is why i haven't cycled in over 5 years. I really started to ask myself if the pro's out weight the con's and they don't. I have a decent body and i am with someone who loves me for who i am and doesn't care about what i look like. Does this slow me down in the gym ? Hell no !

I tell myself , i could cycle and look great for a few years but the question is at what cost ?
Like said above the human body/heart is not made to support these massive monsters. Which IMO makes the heart work harder which will in turn age it faster.

[The Deuce]

Which IMO makes the heart work harder which will in turn age it faster.

So won't rigorous SEXUAL INTERCOURSE !! Lol.. that makes your heart work harder

[stevey_6t9]

the heart grows bigger and stronger to compensate with an increase in exercise and bodily weight. The heart is almost enlarged in any professional athelete, athletes like lance armstrong have a heart 33% larger then the average human. An increase in heart size does not mean your heart is unhealthy. steroids damage coronary arteries making cardiac output and stroke volumes much less.

[laduem88]

You would be amazed how many guys use priscription drugs, benzos and opiates, and how so many of the guys that compete look at rec. drugs as not a big deal.

The problem is when you combine the two.

exactly not to mention there running AAS at an extreme dose and then using other drugs to top that off....i mean come on its bound to happen

[Hard.On]

after my next cycle im going to go rob a bank because i dont think i will be reaching retirement in my lifetime,

but really, those bodybuilder & wrestlers look fantastic, but sadley the only reason they get to that size and keep it is due to a lifetime abuse of steroids and in many cases lead to abuse of hard drugs, alcohol, pres. drugs etc.

[kalspic]

he really should not be on the list.
he died when his safety cable broke and he fell couple hundred feet from the roof to the floor during a live show.
he had really bad luck....

he didnt have really bad luck, he had ryan ross luck

[Friend]

Who wants to become old, frail and useless. I would rather die at 40 than shit myself in old age and be nothing but a burden to those around me.

I'll die with my dignity thanks.

[The Deuce]

exactly not to mention there running AAS at an extreme dose and then using other drugs to top that off....i mean come on its bound to happen

No No No No.. BS !! I am prescribed both benzodiazapines and methadone (MMT) .. AND it in no way will shorten MY LIFE. Yah maybe if I abused them.. and took more than the doc prescribed.. probably could do some harm.. but in reality they help with my medical conditions, which will LENGTHEN my life.. and my AAS use will NOT shorten my life.. it just won't and frankly I am sick of hearing it.

People DIE from overdoses on drugs that aren't prescribed to them when they take more than their body is adjusted (acclimated) too.. bottom line. Someone who takes 10 vic's pops 5 valiums and goes to sleep is most likely going to depress the CNS and die. Someone who has taken the medications for almost a decade.. it's perfectly safe.

And need I remind you that AAS and Drugs operate in different systems of the body and they do not directly interact with each other.. One utilizes the endocrine system, the other the central nervous system.

I am prescribed to HRT at 400mgs per weenk and the above listed meds.. and if there was any precursor or possibility of shortening my life i think the prescribing doc would pre-disposed to such information...

[Kratos]

deuce, how long are you going to be on methadone and benzo's...forever? Because I doubt any doctor would tell you there are no long term effects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-te...enzodiazepines

methadone has it's own list of long term problems

tooth decay comes to mind

As you use methadone, it can begin to affect the way in which saliva forms in your mouth, to the point where your salivary glands essentially dry up. Without saliva, bacteria may begin to form on your teeth, as this bodily fluid does have certain antibacterial compounds. Over time, these bacteria will result in tooth decay.


Long-term use of methadone may also result in damage to a person's heart. Since methadone can change the way in which the heart is beating, either increasing its speed or affecting its rhythm, this alteration may eventually damage the actual structure of the heart.

Sleep disorders are common...disruption of when you should be awake vs sleep leading to being sleep deprived and unable to think str8.

Also, benzo's are commonly prescribed together, they are also a well known drug interaction. You are much more likely to have adverse events when combining the two.

AAS also has implications for the CNS...
my point is just that no drug is totally safe, not that you don't need to take them

For whatever reason you're on the drugs you are, you must have been though some shit, so I'm sure you need it. You have to live the best life you can with what you got.

[ranging1]

So i was browsing the web last night checking out some bodybuilding stuff and i came across a few stories from tom prince, munzer and some others about bodybuilder deaths etc. Then a thread popped up with a longggg list of bodybuilders who have died or have had a life threatening health problem.

Anyway the scary thing is that all of these guys had died of something you would usually hear the media bashing steroid use for- heart attack being the main one.

So now its made me stand back and consider everything because there does seem to be a correlation between these pro's and heart failure.

Any thoughts on this?

agree ive notcied it to and it does scare me

wrestling is no joke either, pre-mature death rate I've read is reported somewhere between 400-700% hight the human average. Common causes by far, heart attack, suicide, drug overdose.

Chris Von Erich - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Owen Hart - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49

ive seen u post this before, it scared me last time, and its scaring me again

to 'duece' agree everyone dies but you have to admit their does seem to be a relationship between heavy AAS users and early death

even if theirs not proof that they die becuase of AAS its a scary relationship between heavy AAS use and early deaths, mainly heart issues

[ranging1]

Who wants to become old, frail and useless. I would rather die at 40 than shit myself in old age and be nothing but a burden to those around me.

I'll die with my dignity thanks.

lol i dont wnana live till i cant walk to a toilet

but 40 is pretty dam young, i mean when i turn over 40 im gonna start eating jelly beans, ice cream, still train and enjoy getting old with my wife, and enjoy having my mid life crises and going out and buying an expensive sport car hehehehehe

i also think alot of people forget that u may not mind dying young, but when you die u dont only effect urself

its the others around you, that love you, that are effected

remeber that...

[terraj]

I'm 40 in a year....fvck that bro!

I want to wrestle my grand kids, retire early and be a dirty rude old man.

[stevey_6t9]

No No No No.. BS !! I am prescribed both benzodiazapines and methadone (MMT) .. AND it in no way will shorten MY LIFE. Yah maybe if I abused them.. and took more than the doc prescribed.. probably could do some harm.. but in reality they help with my medical conditions, which will LENGTHEN my life.. and my AAS use will NOT shorten my life.. it just won't and frankly I am sick of hearing it.

People DIE from overdoses on drugs that aren't prescribed to them when they take more than their body is adjusted (acclimated) too.. bottom line. Someone who takes 10 vic's pops 5 valiums and goes to sleep is most likely going to depress the CNS and die. Someone who has taken the medications for almost a decade.. it's perfectly safe.

And need I remind you that AAS and Drugs operate in different systems of the body and they do not directly interact with each other.. One utilizes the endocrine system, the other the central nervous system.

I am prescribed to HRT at 400mgs per weenk and the above listed meds.. and if there was any precursor or possibility of shortening my life i think the prescribing doc would pre-disposed to such information...

its all good and fun now, but when your older dont you want to watch your kids grow up, go to college, get married and play with your grand kids?.

its all fun now pumping up in the gym, but what if your doc says on your annual checkup you have major 90% blockage in your ascending aorta and require a triple bypass open heart surgery cud you look at yourself and say those muscles back then were worth the pice im paying now?

[Mooseman33]

No No No No.. BS !! I am prescribed both benzodiazapines and methadone (MMT) .. AND it in no way will shorten MY LIFE. Yah maybe if I abused them.. and took more than the doc prescribed.. probably could do some harm.. but in reality they help with my medical conditions, which will LENGTHEN my life.. and my AAS use will NOT shorten my life.. it just won't and frankly I am sick of hearing it.

People DIE from overdoses on drugs that aren't prescribed to them when they take more than their body is adjusted (acclimated) too.. bottom line. Someone who takes 10 vic's pops 5 valiums and goes to sleep is most likely going to depress the CNS and die. Someone who has taken the medications for almost a decade.. it's perfectly safe.

And need I remind you that AAS and Drugs operate in different systems of the body and they do not directly interact with each other.. One utilizes the endocrine system, the other the central nervous system.

I am prescribed to HRT at 400mgs per weenk and the above listed meds.. and if there was any precursor or possibility of shortening my life i think the prescribing doc would pre-disposed to such information...

so ur prescribed 400mg test per week for HRT
also benzodiazapines and methadone

and u really dont think after years and years it will not shorten ur life..

im sorry man, i disagree and hope im wrong for ur sake man..

[The Deuce]

I have been on MMT for 1 year now and slowly descending off.. some of u remember my thread about my horrific Motorcycle accident years ago.. well that resulted in a lot of painkillers usage due to the massive amounts of broken bones and surgeries.. *Doc prescribed until it ran out and I thought I needed it still.. HENCE I entered MMT(Methadone Maintenance Treatment)* I know the dangers of MMT, so I set myself up on a 2 year non-invasive plan to kick the addiction that held tough on me for damn near 4 years... So far it's worked. Not One Slip up in Ha oddly enough 13 months tomorrow.. (Entered Treatment 12/23/09).. Kratos I totally and fully understand all adverse LONG TERM HEALTH effects of MMT that's why I told myself and shortened my stay from Their "5 yr Plan" to 2yrs.. Yes it has already had an effect on my teeth unfortunately.. oh well that to me is better than an overdose of Pain medicine...

Benzo's yes we all know how Addicting as hell they are.. trust me, every day i wake up i wish I could say I would never have to take one again. Problem is with my PTSD until I can figure out a way to deal with my Panic Disorder.. ehhh I am kinda left stuck and have been on them since before my accident (8yrs)

I have hhad every known possible assessment done on my heart= Ekg's, EEG's, stress tests, blood tests.. everything! Why? Because I want my ticker in good shape and MAINLY because I was such a freak with my Panic disorder.. every chest pain would land me in the hospital thinking I was having a heart attack.. low and behold it was a major panic attack (which exhibits the same exact symtoms oddly enough as a real heart attack)

I am in HRT for my Hypogonadism, they have yet to figure out the root cause, my endo seems to think it lies in the METHADONE's fault.. and the reason I am prescribed to so much is a mystery in itself.. 200mgs per week yeilded 313ng/ml or something along those lines.. when he blood tested me at 400mgs per week it hit back at 834ng/ml total test.. so he left me there even though it was 7ng's/ml outside NORMAL range.

I am not predisposed through family history with any type of Heart issue.. for some reason everyone in my family lives a very long time.. My Great Grandfather passed away two years ago at 102... and my Grandfather who is in the hospital now.. is at 84 years young... Grandmother Kicked it at 77 due to Lung Cancer because she smoked 4 packs of Pall Mall Non-Filters a day for over 50 years ..

I won't defend that AAS won't have an adverse effect on the longevity of my life because thata's just retarded to think that way..

But like I outlined.. of course I wanna grow old with my family but I also have goals in my mind that I have set to accomplish and God Gifted me with the Genetics to be able to have a Genetic Build that would allow my frame to accommodate all that wonderful muscle tissue I desire... do I think I am going to have to have a triple - bypass open heart surgery.. NO .. but when the time comes guys.. (maybe another 20 years or so.. ) DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF MEDICAL MIRACLES or science they will have then?? Knowledge doubles on a daily basis, quantify that by 20 years.. and who knows.. we might not need REAL hearts anymore to live.. Am I going to live like that's going to happen?? Of course NOT. I am going to make sure I am in my peak health stage.. I make sure to get my bloodwork done, I make sure I eat right, I make sure to do my cardio (things other AAS tend neglect in the pursuit of muscle tissue).. But even after all of that..

I am STILL going to DIE anyways...

At least I have a Faith system of beliefs that allows me to know that I am going to a better place than this.. this body that I inhabit.. is only a vehicle and but a whisper of what my true soul will live on at...

Thank you for listening.

[buffgator]

wait a minute steroids can kill....???? Im just as pro steroid as anyone, but far to many people using are living in major denial of their potential to be a factor in early death.

[Schmidty]

[QUOTE=Mooseman33;5035084]he really should not be on the list.
he died when his safety cable broke and he fell couple hundred feet from the roof to the floor during a live show.
he had really bad luck....[/QUOTE]