Heavy duty training...

[the big 1]

i have been reading some old literature about hit training by mike mentzer, casey viator and other advocates of HIT...

i must say im impressed by the results these people made by training so infrequently at such low volume and workout duration...

mike mentzers routine what built his physique, saw him in the gym only 2 or 3 times a week, with as little as 1 working set for each bodypart...this was obviously was to extreme failure and beyond and taxed the CNS and the body more than any pissy volume routine would....

any thoughts on this ? i didnt put this question in the training section coz it wont get answered...

[marcus300]

There are many forms of HIT and ive more or less always done this kind of train, i work out for very short peroids of time but the intensity is very high and heavy duty all the way, I like how it makes you thick set and it keeps the belly's of the muscles bulging.

[the big 1]

There are many forms of HIT and ive more or less always done this kind of train, i work out for very short peroids of time but the intensity is very high and heavy duty all the way, I like how it makes you thick set and it keeps the belly's of the muscles bulging.

Whats your routine at the moment mate ?

im taking a two day on two day off aproach, training the whole body on monday and tuesday, and then again on thursday and friday.

[marcus300]

Whats your routine at the moment mate ?

im taking a two day on two day off aproach, training the whole body on monday and tuesday, and then again on thursday and friday.

Thats awful routine IMHO, there is no way you are training correctly if you train the whole body in two days especially with HIT, once you have trained a major muscle group correctly with the right intensity you will be unable to train another especially another major one. I think you need to do alot more reading regarding HIT.

[the big 1]

Thats awful routine IMHO, there is no way you are training correctly if you train the whole body in two days especially with HIT, once you have trained a major muscle group correctly with the right intensity you will be unable to train another especially another major one. I think you need to do alot more reading regarding HIT.

i can see you standing point, but there is literally no volume in this routine, ile write the exercises....

[the big 1]

workout 1 performed monday and thursday

leg exstensions super set with leg press
2 cycles to all out failure

1 set of hams curls to failure

2 set of calf raise to failure

Pec deck superset with incline bench press
2 cycles to all out failure with negatives and static holds

lying triceps exstension super set with weighted dips
2 cycles to failure

[the big 1]

workout 2 performed tuesday and friday

lat pulldown superset with bent over dumbell rows
2 cycles to absolute failure

shrugs with bar superset with upright row
2 cycles to failure

side laterals super set with machine press
2 cycles

bent over laterals for rear deltoids
2 sets to failure

standing barbell curls superset with palms up chins
2 cycles past failure

[the big 1]

What would you suggest ?

this routine trains the whole body twice a week

each body part gets 2 supersets to failure each week (other than calves and hams)

3 days of rest are taken each week, and more are added if need be...

[the big 1]

i would say the decrease in volume allows for more energy to train another muscle group...

this routine is advised, its not made by me, i would however like some more advice to optimise gains, maybe split workout 1 in half and do it monday and tues, then half workout 2 aswell (thursday and friday)

i have made good strength and weight gains from this plan, also ive dropped bf, like i said though, i would like optimise it to work even better

[DSM4Life]

I been doing rest/pauses right now. Workout mon wed fri, cardio in between, sat sun off.

[the big 1]

I been doing rest/pauses right now. Workout mon wed fri, cardio in between, sat sun off.

what routine ? what muscle is trained on what day ?

[the big 1]

bump for marcus

[DSM4Life]

I am going to wing this because I don't have my log book with me.

Mon
Chest
Shoulder
Tri
Back
Back

Wed
Bi
Forearm
Calves
Ham
Quad

Fri
Return back to moon workout but I do different movements

Mon I follow the routine and do wed workout but with different movements. Then fri I'll go back to mon workout and go back to my original movements and the goal is the beat what I did the week before. Either with reps or weight. This is all based on DC training.

http://dc-training.blogspot.com/2005...-training.html

[the big 1]

I am going to wing this because I don't have my log book with me.

Mon
Chest
Shoulder
Tri
Back
Back

Wed
Bi
Forearm
Calves
Ham
Quad

Fri
Return back to moon workout but I do different movements

Mon I follow the routine and do wed workout but with different movements. Then fri I'll go back to mon workout and go back to my original movements and the goal is the beat what I did the week before. Either with reps or weight. This is all based on DC training.

http://dc-training.blogspot.com/2005...-training.html

looks productive, im now gonna read it...

what kind of gains have you made from this programme

[Igifuno]

is it practical to do HIT training constantly? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to, for instance, do HIT once a plateau has been reached? Or switch between HIT, rest/pause or other forms of training? I've always tried to switch up my routine and/or movements every couple of months and I've found that to work wonders for me.

[the big 1]

I am going to wing this because I don't have my log book with me.

Mon
Chest
Shoulder
Tri
Back
Back

Wed
Bi
Forearm
Calves
Ham
Quad

Fri
Return back to moon workout but I do different movements

Mon I follow the routine and do wed workout but with different movements. Then fri I'll go back to mon workout and go back to my original movements and the goal is the beat what I did the week before. Either with reps or weight. This is all based on DC training.

http://dc-training.blogspot.com/2005...-training.html

awsome read DSM, thanks mate...

[the big 1]

is it practical to do HIT training constantly? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to, for instance, do HIT once a plateau has been reached? Or switch between HIT, rest/pause or other forms of training? I've always tried to switch up my routine and/or movements every couple of months and I've found that to work wonders for me.

I suppose, but why wait when the gains can come right away, and kept being made consistently...

personaly, im never gonna waste my time with any sort of volume training ever again, it does nothing for me apart from overtrain me and srtrip my hard earned muscle...

volume is good for beginners, it conditions the body and gets it ready for lifting heavier...

the fact is, as you proggessively lift heavier wieghts you need more rest, more intensity and less volume...

[marcus300]

What would you suggest ?

this routine trains the whole body twice a week

each body part gets 2 supersets to failure each week (other than calves and hams)

3 days of rest are taken each week, and more are added if need be...

With training programs its very hard to say what is better until you try and few of them over a set number of wks and log the results and see which one you respond better to. In the early yrs of my training I tried many different approaches and styles, when I started to do more intense workouts with shorter periods of rest that's when I noticed a huge difference in the shape of my muscles and mass, I swapped and changed that kind of training until I found one what brings out the best in regards to growth.

Personally I don't like your routine but if your gaining tissue thats all that counts, for me I couldn't train my whole body in 2 days because of the intensity I put into my workouts, it would be near dame impossible for me to train 2 major body parts in the same program, its not always the way I train and I do swap and change to suit my recovery and CNS but when I work a muscle I tear it down from every angle go home and fuel up and sleep.

[the big 1]

With training programs its very hard to say what is better until you try and few of them over a set number of wks and log the results and see which one you respond better to. In the early yrs of my training I tried many different approaches and styles, when I started to do more intense workouts with shorter periods of rest that's when I noticed a huge difference in the shape of my muscles and mass, I swapped and changed that kind of training until I found one what brings out the best in regards to growth.

Personally I don't like your routine but if your gaining tissue thats all that counts, for me I couldn't train my whole body in 2 days because of the intensity I put into my workouts, it would be near dame impossible for me to train 2 major body parts in the same program, its not always the way I train and I do swap and change to suit my recovery and CNS but when I work a muscle I tear it down from every angle go home and fuel up and sleep.

good advice, thanks mate

Dsm brought up the dogg crap training method, it seems hard to execute correctly, but im willing to try anything if it works you know.

its basically the same concept of less volume , less frequincy of WO's, but the utmost intensity to go with it.

[Swifto]

I tend to train HIT and progressive volume.

My HIT routine is 1 muscle/6-7 days. Depending on recovery.

Mon - Chest
Tues - Shoulder, Tris
Wed - Off
Thurs - Legs
Fri - Back, rear delts
Sat -Off
Sun - Off

I do 2-4 working sets per muscle group, but do 2-3 warm up sets aswell. With HIT I tend to hit 6-8 then RP to 10-12, then forced reps to 12-15. Then negatives and static holds. It works, but is very taxing on the CNS. Every 4-6 weeks I'll take 5-7 days off. Then may hit another program, such as peroidization or progressive volume for a further 4-5 weeks, off, back to HIT.

[dec11]

I been doing rest/pauses right now. Workout mon wed fri, cardio in between, sat sun off.

yep, ive always found 3 day split to be best, i do

mon
chest
tri's
bi's

wed
quads
hams
calves
abs

fri
back
traps
shoulders

[the big 1]

I tend to train HIT and progressive volume.

My HIT routine is 1 muscle/6-7 days. Depending on recovery.

Mon - Chest
Tues - Shoulder, Tris
Wed - Off
Thurs - Legs
Fri - Back, rear delts
Sat -Off
Sun - Off

I do 2-4 working sets per muscle group, but do 2-3 warm up sets aswell. With HIT I tend to hit 6-8 then RP to 10-12, then forced reps to 12-15. Then negatives and static holds. It works, but is very taxing on the CNS. Every 4-6 weeks I'll take 5-7 days off. Then may hit another program, such as peroidization or progressive volume for a further 4-5 weeks, off, back to HIT.

What kind of gains have you made using this style ?

have you ever tried doing 1 working set a week for each muscle group ?

[Swifto]

What kind of gains have you made using this style ?

have you ever tried doing 1 working set a week for each muscle group ?

The best gains have been using HIT.

Higher volume works with me too though. Just change it up when you hit a plateu.

My training is almost identical to Dorian's. He did 2-3 working sets per muscle group. I dont see how you can cause enough tissue damage to do 1 working set. Unless you hit it EOD or E2D such as DC training.

[NVR2BIG1]

Mentzer made good sense and his programs worked, HOWEVER the guy ended up just getting way too overboard with the overtraining paranoia. And he was in such Kahoots with the Nautilus shit that much of what he said was nothing more than a sales pitch to help sell Nautilus equipment. My best friend who grew up out in Venice trained right alongside Mike and Ray Mentzer, and come contest prep time you can bet your ass Mike was not just in the gym once every week, he trained volume to some degree just like everyone else. You'd have to in order to bring some sort of condition especially since Mentzer was highly against cardio. Mentzer found his niche, it sold products and books and was different, that's the main reason he preached it. Now, this is not saying his Heavy Duty training didn't work, but when it came to Heavy Duty part 2 IMO it was just so infrequent it was ridiculous. Not to mention, some of us like to be in the gym just to be healthy too, so going 3-4x/wk makes more sense. Now, if you guys want a really sweet program where you can combine some HIT along with a little volume/drop sets you def. need to look into Niel Hill's Y3T training, the program actually allows you to roll about 3 different training styles into 1 if you want as each wk is different during your 3 wk phases

[the big 1]

The best gains have been using HIT.

Higher volume works with me too though. Just change it up when you hit a plateu.

My training is almost identical to Dorian's. He did 2-3 working sets per muscle group. I dont see how you can cause enough tissue damage to do 1 working set. Unless you hit it EOD or E2D such as DC training.

i agree, the problem i have with intensity training is having to go it alone, i dont always have a partner for statics and negatives etc... most average guys in the gym dont have a clue how to spot someone, they just pull the bar from you and kill the tension you built up through all you previous reps, theres nothing more annoying...

this is why i tend to stick to racks, d-bells and machines, which is a shame because it limits me to some of the less stimulating exercises, like your average barbell press's and close grip b-press' etc...

[the big 1]

Mentzer made good sense and his programs worked, HOWEVER the guy ended up just getting way too overboard with the overtraining paranoia. And he was in such Kahoots with the Nautilus shit that much of what he said was nothing more than a sales pitch to help sell Nautilus equipment. My best friend who grew up out in Venice trained right alongside Mike and Ray Mentzer, and come contest prep time you can bet your ass Mike was not just in the gym once every week, he trained volume to some degree just like everyone else. You'd have to in order to bring some sort of condition especially since Mentzer was highly against cardio. Mentzer found his niche, it sold products and books and was different, that's the main reason he preached it. Now, this is not saying his Heavy Duty training didn't work, but when it came to Heavy Duty part 2 IMO it was just so infrequent it was ridiculous. Not to mention, some of us like to be in the gym just to be healthy too, so going 3-4x/wk makes more sense. Now, if you guys want a really sweet program where you can combine some HIT along with a little volume/drop sets you def. need to look into Niel Hill's Y3T training, the program actually allows you to roll about 3 different training styles into 1 if you want as each wk is different during your 3 wk phases

I tryed one of neil hills training techiniques once and it stuck with me because i enjoyed the burn so much...

it was basically a triple drop set to total failure on leg extensions, then you do partials at a weight higher than the first initial weight of the drop set its self... its was like 75kg to failure (around 12 reps) then 60kg for 10 and then 40kg for 8 (at this point im blue in the face and cant breath), then the bastard makes you do SLOW ASS partials for 10 reps at 80KG!!!

when i get off the machine i usualy fall to the floor, its a very good shaping and separating technique....

[goose]

I quickly found that once I surpassed a certain level of volume or frequency, I experienced the signs of overtraining, i.e., you're not recovering, you don't sleep well, your nervous system is run down, and you no longer make progress. That clearly indicated to me that I needed to cut back and alter my approach slightly.
Over the years I refined my program based on the principles and relationships of intensity, volume, frequency and adequate recuperation. So, although I read information by Jones and Mentzer the old school guys of HIT, I took what they said and combined it with traditional methods and created my own hybrid of high intensity training. I do not agree with some of the things stated by Jones and Mentzer, including training the whole body in one session,I found out that it does not work lifting very heavy.
People think its about the cycle/drugs you design to get big-I found out the real secret is perfect diet and training program these are harder to master than cycling.....Also drugs are always for the lazy..most these guys in gyms that use are jokers...At the end of the day,its all about adding quality muscle-the strongest weapon is a hardcore soul.

[the big 1]

Intensity training seemed to put everything in perspective due to the fact it puts lots of emphasis on recuperation and overtraining, which is the number one reason i didnt grow as much as i could of done...

[Swifto]

Mentzer made good sense and his programs worked, HOWEVER the guy ended up just getting way too overboard with the overtraining paranoia. And he was in such Kahoots with the Nautilus shit that much of what he said was nothing more than a sales pitch to help sell Nautilus equipment. My best friend who grew up out in Venice trained right alongside Mike and Ray Mentzer, and come contest prep time you can bet your ass Mike was not just in the gym once every week, he trained volume to some degree just like everyone else. You'd have to in order to bring some sort of condition especially since Mentzer was highly against cardio. Mentzer found his niche, it sold products and books and was different, that's the main reason he preached it. Now, this is not saying his Heavy Duty training didn't work, but when it came to Heavy Duty part 2 IMO it was just so infrequent it was ridiculous. Not to mention, some of us like to be in the gym just to be healthy too, so going 3-4x/wk makes more sense. Now, if you guys want a really sweet program where you can combine some HIT along with a little volume/drop sets you def. need to look into Niel Hill's Y3T training, the program actually allows you to roll about 3 different training styles into 1 if you want as each wk is different during your 3 wk phases

Y3T FACTS

Creator: Neil Hill-nutritionist/trainer/gym owner, former IFBB pro competitor; clients include Flex Lewis, Zack Khan, Lee Powell and Jeff Long

Meaning: Y forYoda (Hill's nickname), 3 for three weeks, T for training

Philosophy: three-week cycles that combine power training, moderate reps and blood volumization

Typical cycle

(repeating every three weeks):

* Week 1: compound exercise for 6-8 reps, forced reps, focuses on strength gains

* Week 2: same as above, but with 8-10 reps

* Week 3: more isolation exercises, 12-20 reps, includes supersets and giants sets for blood volumization

BREAK THE WEIGHT

That right?

[NVR2BIG1]

Y3T FACTS

Creator: Neil Hill-nutritionist/trainer/gym owner, former IFBB pro competitor; clients include Flex Lewis, Zack Khan, Lee Powell and Jeff Long

Meaning: Y forYoda (Hill's nickname), 3 for three weeks, T for training

Philosophy: three-week cycles that combine power training, moderate reps and blood volumization

Typical cycle

(repeating every three weeks):

* Week 1: compound exercise for 6-8 reps, forced reps, focuses on strength gains

* Week 2: same as above, but with 8-10 reps

* Week 3: more isolation exercises, 12-20 reps, includes supersets and giants sets for blood volumization

BREAK THE WEIGHT

That right?

Exactly!! The first 2 wks in the cycles you may feel like your not doing enough, the 3rd wk brings it all together and solidifies the gains and volumizes. Very wise approach to bodybuilding, especially w/ proper diet and gear!!