Gays in the Military repeal

[D7M]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...er=rss&emc=rss

In his State of the Union address last January, President Obama repeated a campaign-trail promise to the gay community.

By the end of the year, Mr. Obama said, he would seek a full repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which bars gay, lesbian and transgender people from serving openly in the armed forces.

The president called it a “law that denies gay Americans the right to serve the country they love because of who they are,” and he said repealing it was “the right thing to do.”

The promise faces a critical test today as supporters of the current policy say they will try to filibuster military defense policy legislation that allows the repeal. With midterm elections just six weeks away, a unified Republicans filibuster would likely mean a delay in fulfilling the president’s pledge until next year.

Opponents of an unrelated immigration measure included in the annual defense authorization bill are also vowing to filibuster, increasing the odds that both issues will be put off.

If the Democrats can’t muster 60 votes to cut off debate, the delay on “don’t ask, don’t tell” would be a blow to gay activists, members of a key White House constituency who fear that next year’s Congress will be less sympathetic to a repeal of the 17-year-old ban. The policy was enacted during President Bill Clinton’s first term.

And it would serve as another source of frustration for those who do not think Mr. Obama is moving quickly enough to make good on key promises, including a repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act and passage of legislation to ban discrimination against gays in hiring.

“It’s critical that it get done in the next week or so,” Aubrey Sarvis, the executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, said of the repeal of the military policy.

The network and other groups have praised Mr. Obama and his White House for helping to negotiate a deal with Democratic lawmakers that moved a repeal effort forward while allowing the Pentagon to conduct a study on how best to implement the change in policy. That led to public announcements of support for the repeal in May by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

But Mr. Sarvis said on Monday: “We need the administration to weigh in and ask the Senate to take up this bill. I haven’t heard the president’s voice in recent days on this issue. But I know he’s an advocate for repeal. He wants repeal.”

Repeal is one of a series of promises that Mr. Obama made in the early days of his administration, only to find that negotiations with Congress were more difficult than he had imagined. The president’s pledge to close the military prison at Guantánamo Bay also remains unfulfilled, with little sign that a solution will come soon.

Among the biggest critics of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” repeal has been Senator John McCain of Arizona, a longtime member of the Senate Armed Services committee. Mr. McCain has said consideration of such an idea in Congress should wait until the Pentagon’s study is completed.

As today’s vote neared, advocates for repeal stepped up their lobbying. They paid particular attention to the two moderate Republican senators from Maine, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins. Ms. Collins voted in the Armed Services committee to support the repeal, but both senators have expressed concern about the defense spending bill, largely on procedural grounds.

In a statement on Monday, Ms. Snowe said that the Democratic leadership should allow Republicans to offer amendments to the defense bill.

“The Senate should have the ability to debate more than the three amendments the majority leader is allowing, especially as this bill is the largest discretionary authorization measure that Congress considers,” Ms. Snowe said in the statement.

The pop music sensation Lady Gaga traveled to Maine on Monday evening for a rally in support of the repeal. “If you are not honorable enough to fight without prejudice, go home,” she told the crowd at the rally.

The immigration provision in the defense spending bill is a measure that would provide a pathway to citizenship for young people who have lived in the United States for five years and spent two years in either college or the military.

A White House spokesman, Shin Inouye, declined to comment on the “don’t ask, don’t tell” or the immigration provisions, but said Monday night that the spending bill was “important for the overall health and well being of our forces, especially given the ongoing campaigns in Iraq, Afghanistan, and around the world. This legislation received bipartisan support in the House and in the Senate Armed Services Committee and the president hopes it receives similar bipartisan support in the Senate.”

Two senators, Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, and Joseph I. Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, plan a news conference this morning to urge their colleagues to vote in favor of moving the legislation forward.

The vote is scheduled for around 2:15 this afternoon.

[Knockout_Power]

my god, does this actually matter? Only in the US does this have to be an issue... who gives a shit of a persons sexual orientation while serving their country?

[D7M]

Apparently at least 2 Senators who are still holding out on voting yes to the repeal.

[D7M]

^One of them said it would reduce morale in the Military

[Knockout_Power]

Nice, so having someone die defending your country doesnt count if they bleed "gay blood"

well, its not hard to believe a ploitician would have a problem... they have never seen a front line from daddy's Estate mansion.

[Shol'va]

To me its a sad situation as there are a lot of young men in the military who are gay or at least confused about their sexuality when going in and are excellent soldiers, and are able to keep their identity in check with some exceptions like a night on the town and getting plastered and telling what they assume was their best bud only to have him blab about it. Or the jealousy issue where maybe the gay soldier is up for promotion and the straight soldier uses his sexuality against him to keep him from being promoted and thereby getting him kicked out of the service. Since gays have served in the military for years, we all know they are there and the pentagon has done numerous studies showing it wouldnt hurt morale so I dont get it. Must be Sarah Palin and Glen Beck wanting to take America back....from who or what who knows. They are on a religious kick again so if you dont believe in what they believe you are neither a Republican nor American. Geeze ya gotta love religious fanatacism. Praise the lord and pass the donation plate, Sarah Palins daughter needs a new dress for Dancing With The Stars. Dont want the Situation to call her a grenade. lol

[Times Roman]

when I was young, i had one opinion. now that I'm older, I've swung the other way. On the one hand, as long as nobody is hurting nobody, then it shouldn't matter. On the other hand, bedroom activity needs to stay in the bedroom, irregardless of orientation.

why does this have to be so damn tough? for a country that is supposed to have seperation between church and state, those damn evangelicals sure have a huge say in how we run this country. this is why I left the republican party over ten years ago.

[D7M]

To me its a sad situation as there are a lot of young men in the military who are gay or at least confused about their sexuality when going in and are excellent soldiers, and are able to keep their identity in check with some exceptions like a night on the town and getting plastered and telling what they assume was their best bud only to have him blab about it. Or the jealousy issue where maybe the gay soldier is up for promotion and the straight soldier uses his sexuality against him to keep him from being promoted and thereby getting him kicked out of the service. Since gays have served in the military for years, we all know they are there and the pentagon has done numerous studies showing it wouldnt hurt morale so I dont get it. Must be Sarah Palin and Glen Beck wanting to take America back....from who or what who knows. They are on a religious kick again so if you dont believe in what they believe you are neither a Republican nor American. Geeze ya gotta love religious fanatacism. Praise the lord and pass the donation plate, Sarah Palins daughter needs a new dress for Dancing With The Stars. Dont want the Situation to call her a grenade. lol

when I was young, i had one opinion. now that I'm older, I've swung the other way. On the one hand, as long as nobody is hurting nobody, then it shouldn't matter. On the other hand, bedroom activity needs to stay in the bedroom, irregardless of orientation.

why does this have to be so damn tough? for a country that is supposed to have seperation between church and state, those damn evangelicals sure have a huge say in how we run this country. this is why I left the republican party over ten years ago.

Let me be very clear: I am NOT arguing for any particular view point, just pressing the issue...

But, I didn't see any mention of opposition to the bill on religious grounds in the article, and it's pretty easy to argue that anyone could oppose that bill on more than religious grounds (political, sociological, etc).

[Shol'va]

Let me be very clear: I am NOT arguing for any particular view point, just pressing the issue...

But, I didn't see any mention of opposition to the bill on religious grounds in the article, and it's pretty easy to argue that anyone could oppose that bill on more than religious grounds (political, sociological, etc).

You are right they will argue on political, sociological, and other grounds also.
It would be interesting to know exactly how many gay men and women are in the military as of now including bisexuals, men who have anal sex with women, multiple sex partners,sex with prostitutes etc. As these would all be considered deviant sexual practices unbecoming of the military service. Now how many soldiers do you suppose would be left to fight the war? No argument here just wondering who would be left in our military, maybe Billy Bob, but then he got his sister knocked up when she was 13 so that rules him out. lol

[Times Roman]

Let me be very clear: I am NOT arguing for any particular view point, just pressing the issue...

But, I didn't see any mention of opposition to the bill on religious grounds in the article, and it's pretty easy to argue that anyone could oppose that bill on more than religious grounds (political, sociological, etc).

No worries mate, I know you are not pressing one way or the other. Just some lively conversation.

But you see my point? as many real problems as we have in our country, it seems this perceived problem should be waaaaay low on the list?

[Nooomoto]

Thank God. I'm so glad that we live in a country so free of problems that we can worry about gay people being allowed to be openly gay in the military. It's not like we have problems with the economy, jobs, illegal immigration, healthcare, terrorist states trying to obtain nuclear weapons or anything like that!

Thank you Mr. President!

[Times Roman]

You are right they will argue on political, sociological, and other grounds also.
It would be interesting to know exactly how many gay men and women are in the military as of now including bisexuals, men who have anal sex with women, multiple sex partners,sex with prostitutes etc. As these would all be considered deviant sexual practices unbecoming of the military service. Now how many soldiers do you suppose would be left to fight the war? No argument here just wondering who would be left in our military, maybe Billy Bob, but then he got his sister knocked up when she was 13 so that rules him out. lol

hmmmm.... I would have violated maybe three of your qualifiers. And I consider myself pretty straight, so what does that tell you?

[zimmy]

so many things to try to fix to be wasting time with a no brainer like this

[Hazard]

when I was young, i had one opinion. now that I'm older, I've swung the other way. On the one hand, as long as nobody is hurting nobody, then it shouldn't matter. On the other hand, bedroom activity needs to stay in the bedroom, irregardless of orientation.

why does this have to be so damn tough? for a country that is supposed to have seperation between church and state, those damn evangelicals sure have a huge say in how we run this country. this is why I left the republican party over ten years ago.

Your whole argument is wrong because "Irregardless" is not a word.....



~Haz~

[Hazard]

as for the whole arguement.....

I couldn't give a shit less if a gay guy flew a plane and bombed an enemy, stormed a hill and raised a flag, or fought in the streets of bagdad..... If he serves this country..... he deserves to be recognized and honored.

Now if two guys are bangin one out in a bunker..... thats a whole different story.....

~Haz~

[Shol'va]

as for the whole arguement.....

I couldn't give a shit less if a gay guy flew a plane and bombed an enemy, stormed a hill and raised a flag, or fought in the streets of bagdad..... If he serves this country..... he deserves to be recognized and honored.

Now if two guys are bangin one out in a bunker..... thats a whole different story.....
~Haz~

Unless of course they are banging one out while staring at you.

[Hazard]

Unless of course they are banging one out while staring at you.

If thats what it takes to win the war - i'm ok with it..... hahaha

~Haz~

[V-ROID]

As soon as it passes their will have to be Gay-Firmative Action. Gay quotas to prevent Discrimination. All that shit needs to go to. Best person for the job regardless of sex, race, etc., etc...

[Times Roman]

Your whole argument is wrong because "Irregardless" is not a word.....



~Haz~

shit mate. over 150 college credits and i STILL say it that way. you are right. "irregardless" is not a word, but "irregardless", i continue to say it for some reason. you aint the first that has pointed that out to me, too.

damn.... there goes my WHOLE argument out the window.

so now what do we have left? we all still gotta pretend we all still the same?

[Hazard]

shit mate. over 150 college credits and i STILL say it that way. you are right. "irregardless" is not a word, but "irregardless", i continue to say it for some reason. you aint the first that has pointed that out to me, too.

damn.... there goes my WHOLE argument out the window.

so now what do we have left? we all still gotta pretend we all still the same?

LMAO someone pointed that out to me once and I continue to doit to everyone...... though I still continue to say it ahaha

~Haz~

[Times Roman]

Unless of course they are banging one out while staring at you.

color me old fashioned, but the only way i'd be comfortable with THAT is if it were two hot chics!

(sorry mate, but I'm still alot more liberal than I used to be.... not sure I'd ever be comfortable watching two dudes banging it out - wouldn't stop em if behind closed doors though)

[DSM4Life]

I said it before and ill say it again, all the GLBT people should withdraw/be discharged until the repeal is finally made. I am sure with the high loss of members they would $hit themselves and the repeal would be signed the very next day.

[Hazard]

I said it before and ill say it again, all the GLBT people should withdraw/be discharged until the repeal its finally made. I am sure with the high loss of members they would $hit themselves and the repeal would be signed the very next day.

LOL! I bet you're right.....

~Haz~

[Knockout_Power]

with bullets flying I am really happy to see that in mid-battle people can worry about who's on their side... or who "has their back" so to speak.

[Times Roman]

I said it before and ill say it again, all the GLBT people should withdraw/be discharged until the repeal is finally made. I am sure with the high loss of members they would $hit themselves and the repeal would be signed the very next day.

except I'm sure there are large numbers of career soldiers that haven't come out. which would mean throwing away an otherwise perfectly good career and whatever retirement they would have coming to them in a few years. To be honest, that would be asking alot from anyone.

the reality is, these things take time. I remember when I was a kid... remember that show... "All in the family"? it was funny to be a bigot back then. the truth is, you can only expect so much change from a generation. that generation eventually dies off and are hopefully replaced with a more open minded generation.

I remember (I'm a white guy btw... if you haven't figured that out by now), but I remember when I was about 23 I really fell hard for this black (omg!!) chic. 25 years ago, a white dude and a black chic was a pretty rare thing. We'd hold hands and kiss in public. the reactions we used to get! You'd think we'd kicked someone's dog. it wasn't all the time, but often enough to make you remember. And here's the funny part. We got MORE of a reaction from the blacks than we did the whites.... although the reaction wasn't always negative.

Not sure why I threw all that in there, but it seemed to fit when I typed it in there......?

[Shol'va]

Oh well its all a moot point now anyways. Round four goes to the Republicans. These are the same folks that were in office before Obama and screwed up things so badly that we voted in the democrats. Now they are telling us to vote them back in cause they are going to take back Amerca! Take it back from who all of us? No one ever talks about the real problem in washington and that is greed. When it takes 150 million to get elected to congress, when the job only pays approx 120 thou a year and it takes 300 million to get elected president and tha job only pays 400 thou a year, yet all these guys leave office multi millionaires, there is something wrong with our political system.

[Times Roman]

Oh well its all a moot point now anyways. Round four goes to the Republicans. These are the same folks that were in office before Obama and screwed up things so badly that we voted in the democrats. Now they are telling us to vote them back in cause they are going to take back Amerca! Take it back from who all of us? No one ever talks about the real problem in washington and that is greed. When it takes 150 million to get elected to congress, when the job only pays approx 120 thou a year and it takes 300 million to get elected president and tha job only pays 400 thou a year, yet all these guys leave office multi millionaires, there is something wrong with our political system.

do like I did and register as a Libertarian! fuk em all!!!

[LawMan018]

They actually had, a little bit ago, a place for military members to provide our feedback for this. As far as I'm concerned I think they should be allowed to serve. I think the majority of the opposition believes "all" gay people act like those little... I don't know how to describe them except for one word an old gay friend once used, twinks, haha. The ones that act super feminine I guess you could say? Which is not true. A lot of people need to get their heads out of their asses and realize the world we live in isn't the same as when the Mayflower landed.

[teddykgb29]

everyone who serves deserves respect regardless of their sexual orientation.

[Skyler]

I'm in the Army... I'm gay... Can I go home now?

[scotty51312]

From 8 years of military service i can honestly say it makes no difference one way or the other. Most of the gay service members we pretty much knew they were gay. At least most of them. There are all kinds of rules on descrimination about sex or race in the military and those rules didn't stop racism or sexism, just like don't ask don't tell never stoped homophobia its just another obstical in equality for everyone to overcome.

[Shol'va]

I'm in the Army... I'm gay... Can I go home now?

As long as there is a war going on your a$$ aint goin nowhere, gay or bi, but as soon as the war is over then the witch hunt starts again and the discharges will fly. Its the American Way.

[DSM4Life]

[Nooomoto]

The bill that this was included in got blocked.

[Times Roman]

I'm glad I'm not gay for the simple fact I don't think I could handle all the shit you have to take for having that orientation. What a friggin nightmare, huh?

and no wonder some gays get aggressive. I probably would too if I were "attacked" (verbally, physically, etc.) the way some gays are.

I watched a very disturbing movie once called "Boys don't cry" with Hilary Swank. She played a girl playing a boy in love with another girl. she ended up killed due to her orientation. It was a fairly decent movie, and Hilary did a great job with her role.

A close friend of mine, her brother is a twink. died of aids. he took a crap load of shit in high school. ended up fairly tall (about 6 two), and became aggressive there at the end. he was really tired of all the shit.

[Nooomoto]

I wonder if these guys were affected by "Dont ask dont tell"????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYJ2OJmT79o

[Skyler]

I wonder if these guys were affected by "Dont ask dont tell"????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYJ2OJmT79o

...wow... I knew a gay guy who acted like he had no problem fighting anyone anywhere, even though he was short, chubby, didn't have an ounce of muscle on him, etc....

Now I know why.... I guess when the "snapping fingers and slaps" start flying, nobody really ends up hurt...