Why does the US want to attack Iraq so badly.

[Got Gear?]

Seriously... what's going on guys? This isn't making sence at all!!
The official line is because Iraq is against UN sanctions regarding owning weapons of mass destruction and Sadam is dangerous.


Let me point out a few things that don't make sence to me.

1) The US has known about Sadam's weapons of mass destruction for decades. Yet this suddenly becomes a problem? Especially since he's been pretty good since the gulf war.

2) None of these weapons have the range to reach the US. And there's no way a 200lb (smallest weapon of mass destruction I know of) bomb is going to get smuggled into the country. So.. you're not really at risk. THe counties that are don't want to go to war or help you. Why not just say "Fuck it! A bomb lands on your head it's you own stupid fault then"

3) As far as I'm aware, no link has been found between Sadam and Al-Quida (or however it's spelt). No link has been found between Sadam and any terrorism!

Honestly... to the rest of the world, it looks like the US wants to go to war with Iraq for something that Iraq has had/been doing for decades without major US complaint. It looks like there's other motives involved.....

[daem]

those three issues you mentioned all contribute to popular opinion since people don't know all the facts...i want the war to commence so we can focus on other issues that are more important domestically that have been swept under the proverbial rug. all we hear about is the UN/US/Iraq conflict and it needs to be resolved...

the UN has been proven ineffective in dealing with foreign conflict because it really has no power...i would like to see the US and Britain walk away or go to war without proper sanctions to show the world that we mean business. the US has reconaissance technologies that surpass any other country in the world, so when we say Iraq has more weapons than they claim there is a BIG problem. these countries that have no idea what these rogue nations have at their disposal can all sit the fuck down and stay out of our business. they never complain when the US send boatloads and boatloads of cash to help them with their own problems.

in closing, our 'allies' (france and germany) are a bunch of pussies and are going to stall as long as possible. if the deadline is extended for iraq then it will be that much easier for saddam to have all his shit together and launch a counter assault. when we finally do go to war germany and france will offer aid for reparations so their leaders who are so pompous and self righteous can be reelected.

[Cycleon]

in short - we kick sadams butt for many many reasons but a few I can think of are because:

1) we have to kcik it before he does get nukes (which there is no doubt he will keep trying for)
2) we are sending a proxy message to the entire ME to get a handle on these extremists or you will be next (wich is never stated of course)
3) it is usefull to have military assets there so we can pull out of Saudi, aleviating religious concerns and perhaps making the fanatics less pissed (tho unlikely)
4) we will put a lot fuel on Iran liberals to democratize
5) the iraqi people deserve better - and hopefully after the war they can get on with their country and perhaps become a real US ally in the ME - they make enough from oil to have a good system if it wereent stolen by Saddam
6) his continuance threatens ME stability - no, he wont bother the US but he would certainly take a country close by and that would shoot oil prices even higher than now.
7) we cannot back down now - we have gone too far - if we did we would be unable to have a workable policy anywhere - kurds and other locals who backed us would be murdered or sidelined and no one would ever think of supporting the US openly again
8) he is still in "parole violation" from the gulf war
9) the UN is a pathetic joke whose vultures will swoop down to feed when the war is over to get a piece of the reconstruction but wouldnt lift a finger to fight
10) he regularly funds and equips palestinian extremists to harm of our ally Israel - that is proven, while Al Queda is unlikely
11) he couldl indeed sell the weapons to terrorists.
12) we send the North Koreans the mesage that we are serious without having to exterminate Seol in the process

[Jdawg50]

#2
Hmmmm, I'm sure we all know some people that have gotten viles of various things in the mail from overseas.
Can you imagine if some crazy guy got a bunch of anthrax over here and let it loose in a shopping mall your wife was at? I would rather emiminate that potential risk, than wait for something to happen.

[sherpa27]

bottome line any threath of even a minor sept 11 needs to eradicated immediatley, if you cant make a connection between sadamm and terrorism that doesnt mean there isnt one(possibly, Possiby not) i want Bush to do everything he can to prevent any other attack on America thats all he has on his plate for now and thats enough to chew on

[jammergsxr]

Suddam has been linked to al-quida,through funding!This is not new this is what has drawn the heat to him in the first place.After this was discovered they also relized he was harboring weapons.Since U.S. has moved in can you guess where he has set up his military?Right in way of his own people (nice guy huh).If Suddam has been so good since the gulf why do we keep finding these weapons that he denies having?And if you really,really,really believe he wasn't in on 9/11 you smoke waaaay to much crack!But the main reason we are going to blow the shit out of him is cuz we want to and we are good at it!

[jammergsxr]

I'm sorry I have to address number #2,It's not a 200pd. bomb thats a concern.It's a thimble full of small pox,A vial of anthrax it's the chemical thats strong enouph to wipe out cities and create an epademic the world has never seen.I don't know what your beef against the U.S.A. is but considering you are directly north of us you should be greatly concerned what that poor guy Suddam is doing,remember there is no invisable wall at the border and any chemical or biological agents are free to blow on over.So instead of feeling sorry for Iraq and wondering why we just wanna pick a fight go grab a couple of american flags and pray to whatever god you believe in that we take the son of a french whore out!

[Terinox]

Originally posted by CYCLEON
in short - we kick sadams butt for many many reasons but a few I can think of are because:

4) we will put a lot fuel on Iran liberals to democratize

I gaurantee that will not happen. Although Iran is not stupid to openly begin doing anything that will cause a war or other international disputes, nothing will change their government. And that is the problem in Iran, it is the government. The only thing that will change that country for the better is a revolution. To get things back to the way they were when the King was in charge (only better). And attacking their neighbour, even though it may help start a revolution, I doubt it would succeed, just like all the others that have failed. What organizations like the UN need to do is go to the root of the problem, and help an actual revolution occur, and the power to go back to the citizens, not the damn Muslim bastards. No disrespect to the religion, but why da fuck should a religion run the whole country! Bombing/attacking won't do anything but harm the millions of citizens, who want nothing more then for the governments to fall/change (at least in Iran). That's just my 0.02.

[Diesel]

Because Bush wants to finish the job Daddy could not do.

Anyone seen Bin Laden lately.

D

[justme]

From watching the broadcast Bush made the other day, my view point has changed. I say this because from watching his reaction to questions it appeared as if when people were saying that he just wanted a war he was hurt and insulted. Then listening to what he said before question time it appeared that he had more information than he could release. Also at several points he pointed out the there have been 12 years of warnings for Sadam and now it's time to act. The quotes people said "we don't need UN approval to go to war." are sort of selective quoting because the full quote was something like "we certainly would like UN backing but I don't feel we need UN approval to devend our selves from weapons of mass destruction." He also pointed out several times that he swore to protect his country as presedint, so I think he is doing what he sees as right with all the information he is provided.

just my 2 cents.

[lxorl]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
Seriously... what's going on guys? This isn't making sence at all!!
The official line is because Iraq is against UN sanctions regarding owning weapons of mass destruction and Sadam is dangerous.


Let me point out a few things that don't make sence to me.

1) The US has known about Sadam's weapons of mass destruction for decades. Yet this suddenly becomes a problem? Especially since he's been pretty good since the gulf war.

2) None of these weapons have the range to reach the US. And there's no way a 200lb (smallest weapon of mass destruction I know of) bomb is going to get smuggled into the country. So.. you're not really at risk. THe counties that are don't want to go to war or help you. Why not just say "Fuck it! A bomb lands on your head it's you own stupid fault then"

3) As far as I'm aware, no link has been found between Sadam and Al-Quida (or however it's spelt). No link has been found between Sadam and any terrorism!

Honestly... to the rest of the world, it looks like the US wants to go to war with Iraq for something that Iraq has had/been doing for decades without major US complaint. It looks like there's other motives involved.....

1) its called 911....... terrorism has brought this all in the limelight.... and no sadam has not been good since the gulf war..... He has kicked out the mandated weapons inspectors.... He has increased his production of weapons of mass destruction and he has started a nuclear program..... not a nuclear energy program... a nuclear weapon program......
2) i dont think its the 200lb bomb or the intercontinental missle that they are afraid of.... Its the half gallon of VX nerv gas , or the .25lb of anthrax powder. that reaches the us via Al Queda curtosy of Iraq (and yes Al Queda has been linked to Iraq)

Finally my gas prices are way to high.....lol

I say we drop a fucking bomb on france first. Then we stop buying all french products. We would cripple there economy if we did this.... Its one thing to oppose the resolution, but then to go behind our backs and lobby african nations to do the same. Whats the point in truning everyone agains us if they already have the veto power on there own ? France and Russia are a bunch of Pus*&s who are only acting with there economic backbone in mind.... Granted, I am sure a good part of our intentions are based on Oil, but I still believe its time for Sadam to Go!!!!

Finally... Everyone in the internation community is saying... Let the weapons inspectors do there job, its working, let them do there job..... Must we forget that the Damn INspectors wouldnt even be there if we were not about to blow bagdad off the face of the planet!!! Sadam Kicked them out years ago, against the orders of the UN... Sadam will give just enought to keep the internationl community divided, but he is doing nothing of real substance......

just my 2cents , not trying to flame.......

[Greatful_Dead_Head]

either way we have 255,000+ troops stationed overseas with 5 aircraft carriers and jets, etc. NO WAY is Bush going toback out of his dumb ass midlife crisis now. and that's what this amounts to. there is no hiding the fact that Bush is PRO oil and we'll be drilling in alaska before this is all over. Daddys little boy is acting like John Wayne, and I don't need John Wayne for President.

[Got Gear?]

To all those who've said it's the "thimble full of small pox" or "1/2 gallon of Nerve gas".

Do you really think a war on Iraq will stop this threat? I think it'll increase it! America will piss off alot of people...

Seriously tho.. do you really think bombing a country will stop the threat? What about Iraqui people who live in other countries and are a little pissed that they lost a bunch of their family to a US bomb?

A couple of you felt you were justified by giving the reason "The Iraqi people deserve better". The Iraqi people HATE the US. They don't want your help. Sadam is the problem, not the people. Yet it's the people who die from the bombs, not Sadam.

[Greatful_Dead_Head]

and besides... you can't expect saddam to drop, grovel, and beg forgiveness. HE'S running his own country. he has to have some shred of balls. It would just be huge F&*king mistake to launch any attacks or set oil fields on fire.

[jammergsxr]

You have a lot to learn Got Gear?Do you really think we kill the civilians?The U.S. plans its strikes with the fewest if any civilian casualties.It's Suddam who is killing these people.The people will be fed clothed and housed better than they have ever been in thier lives!Yes there will be counter attacks on the U.S. but by wiping out ALL terrorist countries it will help,not just us but the whole world!Bush never said this was a war on aphganistan he said this will be a war on terrorism and those who harbor them!During this war Suddam will die it's the main objective....by the way your line of questions is really scary and you need to do a lot more research on shit before you make your statements you've been way off on 98% of your defense.

[Got Gear?]

Originally posted by jammergsxr
You have a lot to learn Got Gear?Do you really think we kill the civilians?The U.S. plans its strikes with the fewest if any civilian casualties.It's Suddam who is killing these people.The people will be fed clothed and housed better than they have ever been in thier lives!Yes there will be counter attacks on the U.S. but by wiping out ALL terrorist countries it will help,not just us but the whole world!Bush never said this was a war on aphganistan he said this will be a war on terrorism and those who harbor them!During this war Suddam will die it's the main objective....by the way your line of questions is really scary and you need to do a lot more research on shit before you make your statements you've been way off on 98% of your defense.

No, I don't have alot to learn.

I realise that the US isn't targeting civilians, but Civilians get killed during war. And these are scientists and labourers who've been foced into working at military facilities. Either by having a gun pointed at them or it being the only way they can feed their family. I still consider these people civilians or at least close to it.

Killing Sadam was a big priority in the Gulf war. Killing Osama has been a huge priority and hasn't even come close. Why am I hesitant to believe that Sadam will actually get killed this time? Funny, I thought riding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction was the main objective?

Wiping out ALL terrorist countries? Now you're showing your ignorance. You're talking about genocide. And these arn't "terrorist countries" they're countries that have terrorist cells operating out of them. The typical Joe isn't a terrorist. He's a poor bastard trying to find food for his family.

Saying I've been "off" in my statements and then not showing which ones and why, is about as effective as proveing how strong you are by opening a bottle of beer with your teeth. Point out which statement and why you think it's wrong and I'll happily debate it with you.

[Diesel]

To all the people who think that attacking Iraq will stop terrorism.....You have got to be kidding me.

First off let me say, I support our troops 100%. However, I do not support a war.

1) Why is it that as Americans we automatically assume that everyone should live like we do?
2) If we attack Iraq, we have to realize what countries border them. Iran, etc, etc.... All these countries have been shown to support terrorist networks.
3) Realistically, do you realize what it would take to revitalize Iraq even if the war is quick? (which it will not be) Even if the war started and ended tomorrow, building up a democratic government would be very difficult simply due to the countries that border them.

Bush has painted himself into a corner on this one. By relocating 250K+ troops, he looks like a moron if he pulls out and doesn't fire a shot. That fact alone makes me not trust a damn word that comes out of his mouth. He has made so many promises that have not been kept that I do not know where to begin.
Here is one....How about approving the budget you proposed to the entire country for Home Land Security.

D

[Diesel]

Or......

How about your Bullshit tax cut that 'averages' $1,000 per person. In reality the top 1% will get a $90,000 tax cut per year. Average that out and it does not take long to realize that the rich are getting richer while the middle class and poor will be coming out of pocket.

And, where is your VP Mr. President? Is he in hiding simply because he was involved with Enron? Or how about the fact that his company sold oil refining equipment to Iraq in the past.

Anything to make a buck right???

I could go on for pages.

D

[Cycleon]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
A couple of you felt you were justified by giving the reason "The Iraqi people deserve better". The Iraqi people HATE the US. They don't want your help. Sadam is the problem, not the people. Yet it's the people who die from the bombs, not Sadam.

Where exactly do you get that idea? While it is true that there are those who dislike the US in Iraq, the statements of those on TV are not to be taken seriously (or anyone in print) - because the US backed out last time and left them all to hang, no one even now would dare to openly say anything but the US is Satan and Saddam is god on earth. Who are those who hate us? the people there? no, they are all too happy to get rid of Saddam - now once we do, they may indeed have problems with us, but for now, they are happy to use us - who else? Iraqi expats? who are so thrilled that they made it away alive? who to a man woman and child openly say that they cant wait for the US to depose Saddam?

Where are all of you bleeding hearts when Saddam murdered 1 million of his own people - when Clinton bombed him without any backing whatsoever - when we went into Bosnia was that to safeguard US interests - France and Germany wouldnt lift a finger even for something that was in their backyard - face reality, they are cowards, who no doubt will be begging for a seat at the reconstruction trough as soon the war is over

Do you know why we dont need anyone's permission? because it is not as if anyone is actually using their military forces to help us except the UK (and thats why they are a real ally) - does anyone think that we couldnt do it without them? no - and thats what its really about -Germa dn France and Even Russia are jealous of US ability to project power - even tho we use this less than any other world power in history - they are jealous.

[justme]

The military doesn't try to hurt or endanger civilians, but when you have an army or force that strategically places their weapons and troops near civilians, hospitals and markets what can you do ? The leader of the force placing his/her own people in danger is at fault then, not the invading force.

again just my 2 cents

[Diesel]

Originally posted by CYCLEON

Where are all of you bleeding hearts when Saddam murdered 1 million of his own people - when Clinton bombed him without any backing whatsoever - when we went into Bosnia was that to safeguard US interests - France and Germany wouldnt lift a finger even for something that was in their backyard - face reality, they are cowards, who no doubt will be begging for a seat at the reconstruction trough as soon the war is over

I would not even begin to debate on whether Saddam is a ruthless phsyco. However, I think a lot of Americans both pro and anti war do not realize the amount of time it will take to reconstruct Iraq even if the war is quick.
To many ill informed people around that think we drop a few bombs, send everyone home. Not so at all.

On top of that there is no gaurantee that Saddam will not resurface somewhere else. That was my point behind asking, 'Anyone seen Bin Laden lately?'

D

[Got Gear?]

Cycleon: I'm not saying you (america) need anyone's permission. But America is studdering and doesn't know what to do.

Admit it, you don't! Otherwise something would have happened by now! Instead of all this "We don't need anyone's permission" and "where's our effen allies" crap.

I shouldn't say the Iraqi people hate the US.
BUT! It's common knowledge that the Iraqi people support Sadam over the US. True they don't really like Sadam, but they dislike the US even more. Maybe the american media isn't covering this fact?

My biggest point: Sadam hasn't been doing anything different for the last 10 years. Yet suddenly US wants to go to war..

justme: Regardless of who's fault it is, innocent citizans will get killed. This is like placeing the blame on the gun or the person that pulled the trigger....either way someone's dead and that's what we're trying to avoid.

[Pheedno]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
Cycleon: I'm not saying you (america) need anyone's permission. But America is studdering and doesn't know what to do.

Admit it, you don't! Otherwise something would have happened by now! Instead of all this "We don't need anyone's permission" and "where's our effen allies" crap.

I shouldn't say the Iraqi people hate the US.
BUT! It's common knowledge that the Iraqi people support Sadam over the US. True they don't really like Sadam, but they dislike the US even more. Maybe the american media isn't covering this fact?

My biggest point: Sadam hasn't been doing anything different for the last 10 years. Yet suddenly US wants to go to war..

justme: Regardless of who's fault it is, innocent citizans will get killed. This is like placeing the blame on the gun or the person that pulled the trigger....either way someone's dead and that's what we're trying to avoid.

Extremely ignorant. America is not studdering. we are going through all possible avenues before turning our backs on the International structure(which right now is absolutely worthless and weak) and do the moral, right thing to do. Something that should have been handled by the U.N. a long time ago

Once the final word is in from every country on the security council, we will go in regaurdless. Which if we do not have majority vote on security council, it will cause problems down the road for America on the International front. A price worth paying to extract that killer, and reduce risk of harm to the Amrican people as well as any other possible target.

The Iraqi people do not support their leader in the least bit. Any media coverage you see coming from Iraq on anti-American positions is cut edited and conformed to Iraqi govt. standards. It's like the interview Saddam gave to America a few weeks ago. That can't be percieved as news, it's entertainment. The Iraqi's shot the tape, cut it to their liking and turned it over to us. To even think you can get an accurate response to America from the Iraqi people from any media around the world is nonsense.

Your biggest point is absurd. If you think Saddam's human right s violations of his own people have stopped than you must subscribe to the Hussein bandwagon newsletter. The man is a Tyrant, a killer, a breaker of peace around the world by violating sanctions established by an International community that is to pussy to enforce them.

Yes innocents will die by the hands of our troops and Saddam himself. It is WAR afterall. It's a shitty thing with consequences that cannot have a price put on them. The thing you Appeasers need to realize is the potential chaos of this man. the Chaos he already inflicts, the people he murders, the people he oppresses, and the possibility of greater harm coming when he develops more power and develops weapons that would make a city infected by anthrax look like a day at the fricken beach.

His unacceptable ways have gone on long enough, the danger is too great, and it is time for him to be removed and make way for better times down the road. And a world without Saddam is better times.

[Madmax]

hey gotgear? who the hell do you think is going to protect you guys if there is ever a war....America, thats who, your countries army isnt going to hack it bro....with out us you guys would serioulsly get beet up....

you need to realize that every person even canadians deserve to have basic rights, and the people of iraq DO NOT HAVE THESE RIGHTS!!!!

saddam murders, tortures and rapes his own people, how would you like to live in a counrty that is ruled by an evil dictator that murders people by the hundreds.....

were talking about someone who has chemical weapons on his own people....some one who doesnt allow people basic human rights....those people cant do shit to help themselves...you just need to realize its the right fuckin thing to do and it just needs to be done...

and for bush, think about it, he inherited a slowing economy, a fragile state of relations with other countries, and a crisis in the middle east...he has done a great fuckin job at bringing this country together, and keeping it safe..i sleep better at night because he has the balls to go after these fuckers.....

if sadam contributes to the next 911, people will be saying oh shit, we were wrong, im not going to take that chance...no matter what the cost of repair is to their county, its worth the americans lives that it saves...PERIOD....Madmax..

[Red Ketchup]

Originally posted by Diesel

To many ill informed people around that think we drop a few bombs, send everyone home. Not so at all.
D

I think this is what most people do not seem to realize...

All the recent "wars" and "police actions" the western countries were involved in were relatively sanitized, clean and had very few deaths "on our side". It's been too long since WW2, Korea and Vietnam, been too long since boats and planes of boxes with our dead kids in them landed home. Most people just do not remember.

Many Americans are quite gung-ho about this upcoming war, and approval rating seems high, yet...

Look at the other thread about being recalled to active service... not too many bros seem to be happy about that one.

Many parents and loved ones of military personnel shipped out to the gulf also don't seem too happy about this whole situation (I know I am definetly worried about my bud who joined the navy last year and was sent in the hot zone a few weeks ago).

I doubt this will be another "sanitized" bloodless war too... to "take" Irak is going to take more than just bombing it out of existance... besides there isn't squat left to bomb there, Daddy Bush did a good job of that the first time around. To take Irak will probably be messy foot and ground work against gorilla type resistance to root out the real problem there. Thats where people die. Just look at Israel where a lot of operations are ground work... too many soldiers die, too many civilians die.

What worries me most is what will be the American (and British) peoples reaction to this war when their children start coming home in boxes?

I do hope I am wrong. I hope they the day Dubyaw gives the green light to the troops that the Iraki military and gorilla resistance will just throw down their weapons and say "fuck that!" and run away or surrender and nobody gets hurt. But is it likely?

Just my 2¢ worth...

Red

[Terinox]

Another thing you have to keep in mind is that what the U.S. sometimes does is they go in, do their "job" and then leave, thinking all is well. Even if Saddam is killed/exiled, there are TONS of people JUST like him, who will slowly creep into power, and then it's the SAME OLD THING all over again 10 years down the road. What then? Another war?

Just like the story with Iran. When the King was around, things were a bit better, but you kno what, the King liked the U.S. but then he took it too far. He was practically letting the U.S. do a lot of things in Iran, and he was almost giving the oil away for free. People demanded that we become more separate with other countries rules, etc... So the people thought a revolution was good, and they made it happen, and who ended up taking power? "Khomani" who became the next ruler! Do you KNOW who trained Khomani? Just like Osama Bin Laden...he was trained and school by the U.S. and French government. He was then placed into Iran to do their bidding. And then, U.S. goes, "oh, Khomani is a big threat to the U.S., he supports terrorists, bla bla bla, he is evil, bla bla bla." Although U.S. were not involved with putting Saddam in power, it is a very similar story.

Like I said before, the problem IS NOT just one guy, or even the weapons of mass destructions. If the ENTIRE country is not changed, then 5 to 10 years down the road, it will be exactly the same as it is now, and that's the sad part.

There is nothing I would like more then for countries like U.S., Canada, other UN countries, to take forces to Iran (or Iraq) and FORCE all the religious leaders, and the crazy leaders out, place a GOOD person in power, and make sure he is protected and stays in power.

HOWEVER, at the same time do you think that is what the U.S. wants? If these countries turned into proper democratics or whatever, they will truly become free, their business will thrive, their prices will go up, and their oil prices will be anything they want them to be. They will become more and more competitive. Just look at how much U.S. depends on China (or was it Japan) for all their exports/imports. You gotta look at it in the big picture. U.S. has sold tons and tons of weapons in the past TO THESE middle eastern countries. During the war, when Iraq invaded Iran, a SHITLOAD of countries sold weapons to Iran and Iraq (to make sure the war keeps going). And NOW they are complaining those same weapons, those same technologies are a big threat to everyone. Same with Osama Bin Laden, he was trained by the U.S. they gave him tons of weapons, and said, go fight the Russians, protect your lands, etc..., and now it's all back fired on them, because Osama thought, why the hell should I fight the Russians, the U.S. is my enemy (or whatever he thought).

This is all just my 0.02 boyz.

[jammergsxr]

Got Gear, I could argue for days with you on this,but your fine to have your opinion and I respect that.The fact is we are going to war with Iraq,we have gone out of our way to do this the respectable way but since our so-called allies wont back us with a vote fuck-em,its gonna hurt them in the long run we wont forget about it.When I said all terrorist countries I meen do you think after Iraq it'll be over?No!It will continue to the next hot spot that funds,has ties with,harbors terrorist.
You bring up,why now,easy who was in office most of this decade?clinton was!Bush knows what to do and how to do it and has the reason and has the balls.What reason?9..11,He's gonna make damn sure it doesn't happen again!Iraqs people do not support Suddam they fear Suddam..BIG difference if they hated the U.S. and supported him they wouldn't be trying to surrender themselves to U.S. troops already,So as Red Ketchup said it will be a Gorilla war,No it's gonna be a joke of a war like I said they are already trying to surrender.We the U.S. are well aware of the rebuilding afterwards are taxes pay for it!As for the unhappy U.S. troops having to leave thier family's to go over it's tooo damn bad thats what they signed up for thats what they've trained for.So to sum this up We have justified reason to do this,This will make the world a better place,This will lower the chance of another 9/11,This will make me feel better of all the COMPLETE innocent MEN,WOMEN,CHILDREN lost on 9/11 that had nothing to do with nothing but I guess you can justify that can't ya gear because those guys wasn't terrorist they was just some poor bastards trying to feed thier families! Well I hope they ate real fucking good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jammergsxr]

What the hell I might as well keep going,Killing Suddam and Dis arming Iraq is pretty much the same thing,If they wanna disarm Iraq they've gotta kill Suddam or he will rebuild his weapons.Osama is not out of the picture his ass is still being searched for IF he isn't already dead,They've already got his sons.A country that knowingly has terrorist cells in it IS a terrorist country and you can bet they will be delt with call it what you want!Clinton is your answer as to why Iraq hasn't been delt with since 91,Bush has only been in office a little while and is on top of everything and trying to clean up Clintons mess.The World see's Bush taking charge and doing what the whole world is to chicken shit to do and it scares them,as well it should.So Got Gear you still have alot to learn and you still off on the majority of your statements but instead of bad mouthing the EVIL U.S.A. we would just assume you say thank-you for the protection!

[fLgAtOr]

I hope everyone understands that we will go to war for our (U.S.) interests, and not because Saddam is a "bad man." Honestly, it is not my concern what he is doing to his own people. The problem is, I believe his actions may put us (U.S.) at risk. So, in short, we are (hopefully) going to war to prevent anyone from screwing with us. I hope that when we do go to war, we flex every available U.S. muscle so that the problem is solved once and for all.

But...
I fear that we will go to war, with or without support (and that might be important when the shit hits the fan in the ME).
I fear that the war will not be short and sweet (if there is such a thing).
I believe that there will be many other PISSED OFF individuals looking to kick our ass afterwards.
And I fear that Bush has other motivating factors than saving my sweet ass...

Has anyone thought about other reasons for Bush going to war? I mean, we all know that Bush is an oil slut, but can't wars bring a country out of recession (depending on tax rates etc.)?

[FKITLETSGO]

Ok everyone all of your views some it up pretty precisely. Now take what you think you know. divide that by infinity. take the square root. subtract infiniti squared and then divide by two and then maybe you'll realize that you dont know half of what is "really" going on...

[lxorl]

Originally posted by FKITLETSGO
Ok everyone all of your views some it up pretty precisely. Now take what you think you know. divide that by infinity. take the square root. subtract infiniti squared and then divide by two and then maybe you'll realize that you dont know half of what is "really" going on...

I couldnt agree more... we only know about 50% of the real issues.... and even less of others... well said

[willpharmd]

No one can deny that Iraq has ignored the UN resolutions. No one can deny that Iraq has biological weapons unaccounted for. No one can deny that Saddam is a rapist, murderer, and torturer of his own people. Now honestly, I really think it's sad the way he treats his people but I really don't care. However I do care if he decides to give some biological weapons to terrorists. And no one can deny that this could happen. He's even started a fucking training camp for suicide bombers. ARE YOU SAYING THAT SUICIDE BOMBING IS NOT TERRORISM. Yeah you can contain large bombs, but not small vials;as I'm sure alot of the people on this board know (lol). I personally don't want to take that chance. I think Bush is doing a great job protecting this country. I'll admit that I don't know everything about this, but from the info I've heard, I just can't believe how ANYONE would want to give saddam more time.
The bottom line is, without all of the political bullshit, that in the long run saddam is a threat to the US.

Recent actions have also shown that the UN doesn't mean shit in this world. Saddam has proven that countries can ignore there rulings, and even have the UN come to their rescue when someone tries to punish them for not complying.

PS FUCK Chiraq Iraq ( the french president's new name)

[Got Gear?]

Let me make 1 thing clear. I hate Sadam also.. If I could put a bullet through his head I would..

Pheedno: Lol.. Canada receiveing edited footage? Lol.. You guys forget that 1/2 of our TV up here is american networks. We see all you see and more. Havn't you seen all off the anti-american rallies being held in Iraq? You know.. thousands of people burning flags..

And if America isn't studdering, then tell me how many extensions have beeen given to Iraq and to a UN agreement? All of them with the "By this date or WAR" clause attached. I think that Bush rushed into this thinking that he'd have more support than what he's getting. Now he's painted himself into a corner (as another member stated) and can't back down now.

Did you know that there's currently 18 other countries out there in violation of UN regulations? Some of them relateing to weapons of mass destruction, the majority for human rights issues. If the US is doing this for the Iraqi people, what about these other countries? Why no threat of war towards them? If the US is doing this because of the weapons, why no threats towards countries such as Korea? I still think there's something else goin on here...

MadMax: Typical american responce. Think about this for a second.. you really think that Canada is at risk if Iraq declares war on us? Lol.. you're a smart guy I'm sure you've figured it out already. Plus.. Iraq isn't going to attack us.. they don't have a major beef with Canada.

To All: Killing Saddam isn't going to be enough. There's many others who'd take his place and things would continue exactly as is. Think about it, if his government disliked him or his tactics they'd have gotten rid of him long ago.

[BIG TEXAN]

The UN.....please, all the we (U.S.) are to them are their police force. They decide something needs to be done, what do they do, come knocking on our door telling us we need to send troops, ships ,and such here. But when we (U.S.) feel we need to do something, they don't want to comply. So I say to hell with 'em! Next time they need our forces tell 'em to go look somewhere else! Being prior service I strongly have the urge to re-enlist and go with my brothers. Trust me I have the paper work in action to do this. I don't agree with everything Bush says or stands for, but I strongly stand behind his decision on this one. Suddam doesn't want to play by the rules set forth by the world, than he needs to answer for it. Yes people will be killed, that's the down side. But people are dieing everyday over there and if given the oppurtunity they'd be doing it over here. Besides that when someone enlists into the military they should know that they may have to lay down their life in war. I would like to see all our men and women come home safely, but they know the risk involved. Bush isn't a madman on a mission, he's just doing the job he was elected to do, run this country and use all means necasserry to protect our borders. Saddam's the madman. As for Iran, this is already causing a stir in the youth who Do want to be more like us Americans and hopefully will cause a change to start taking place. For all of you who disagree, well that's your opinion and this is mine. All I can say is no matter what we all need to stand together and let these countries who force suffering and unhuman standards upon it's people or that terrorize the world that we aren't going to sit back and let it happen. Also for those US citizens who want to gripe and say this is unjust and what we're doing is wrong, well if you don't like the way this country is run or what we're involve with than I say you can go ahead and move elsewhere.....it won't hurt my feelings to see ya gone.

[BIG TEXAN]

Why not Korea???? Hello....we have how many troops and aircraft standing by just for this. Besides that if France and Germany don't want to help out with Iraq I say let them handle Korea! You know why Russia, Germany, and France doesn't want us to go to war with Iraq....well who sells Iraq their weapons.....Russia. Who sells Iraq their engines for the missiles and warheads......Germany. Who sell Iraq parts for their helicopters and jets......France. Hell Iraq is 20 something billion dollars in debt to France. If we go to war with Iraq do you think France will ever see a dime....hell no!

[BIG TEXAN]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
MadMax: Typical american responce. Think about this for a second.. you really think that Canada is at risk if Iraq declares war on us? Lol.. you're a smart guy I'm sure you've figured it out already. Plus.. Iraq isn't going to attack us.. they don't have a major beef with Canada.

Would Canada be at risk if war was declared on them by Iraq.....DUH YEAH! Who's to say he won't attack Canada? Yeah, he doesn't have the forces to invade ya'll or us, but all it takes is a handfull of nuts with chemical weapons in back packs to kill thousands.

To All: Killing Saddam isn't going to be enough. There's many others who'd take his place and things would continue exactly as is. Think about it, if his government disliked him or his tactics they'd have gotten rid of him long ago.

No killing Saddam won't be the means of all ends, but it will send a message, besides anyone else steps up to the plate, we just go after them too. Nobody said this would end quickly. War on terrorism will last mine, yours and our chidrens lifetime and more. But we must never give up on putting an end to the threat.

Don't sit there and label anything one person says as "typical american answer". I nor anyone else is talking trash about "Canada or Canadians" so don't go starting it. I don't bash anyone for who they are or what they stand for and I don't expect anyone else to do so either!

[Pheedno]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
Let me make 1 thing clear. I hate Sadam also.. If I could put a bullet through his head I would..

Pheedno: Lol.. Canada receiveing edited footage? Lol.. You guys forget that 1/2 of our TV up here is american networks. We see all you see and more. Havn't you seen all off the anti-american rallies being held in Iraq? You know.. thousands of people burning flags..

And if America isn't studdering, then tell me how many extensions have beeen given to Iraq and to a UN agreement? All of them with the "By this date or WAR" clause attached. I think that Bush rushed into this thinking that he'd have more support than what he's getting. Now he's painted himself into a corner (as another member stated) and can't back down now.

Did you know that there's currently 18 other countries out there in violation of UN regulations? Some of them relateing to weapons of mass destruction, the majority for human rights issues. If the US is doing this for the Iraqi people, what about these other countries? Why no threat of war towards them? If the US is doing this because of the weapons, why no threats towards countries such as Korea? I still think there's something else goin on here...

MadMax: Typical american responce. Think about this for a second.. you really think that Canada is at risk if Iraq declares war on us? Lol.. you're a smart guy I'm sure you've figured it out already. Plus.. Iraq isn't going to attack us.. they don't have a major beef with Canada.

To All: Killing Saddam isn't going to be enough. There's many others who'd take his place and things would continue exactly as is. Think about it, if his government disliked him or his tactics they'd have gotten rid of him long ago.

Allright this is starting to get quite facetious.

You want to talk about the burning of the American flag in Iraq, it might help to know that those are fundamentalist groups who have religious grudges against us, not the typical Iraqi citizens. And their are people in every country that hate someone else in another. This hardly excuses reasons to follow through with the mroal and right thing to do for the people that are scared shitless of this man. People that have to run and hide from him. They are fugatives with inncocence, Saddam is not.

You want to bring up a point about other nations violating U.N. sanctions. Well, list them and their violations. I'm betting you havn't a clue. Second on that is other countries with capabilities of mass destruction are not threatning to the U.S. and others. And third, FUCK the U.N. Their sanctions, resolutions, and overall cause have been devastated and abolished. They preach and don't practice. It is a corrupted orgainzation. Shit, Irag is the head of the commitee to disarm and Lybia is the head of committee for Human Rights. Give me a break. The thought was great but they have failed. The U.S. provided 27% of the funding for that joke of a council for half it's existance and still provides just over 20% now. More than twice as much as any other nation. And after this, what happens; the U.N. proves worthless. It's like investing in Enron.

You want to talk about Korea. Well lets review this. Korea is not a U.N. country(doesn't really matter anyway) They have always been crazy son of a bitches and always will. Saddam is trying to stall this war and doing a pretty fine job at it because of the U.N. so the WE the United States of America and our real allies have to deal with both at the same time. Not only would that lead to devastating economic downfall in more places than here, I believe that would be the first use of tactical nukes and the deaths of uncountable persons.
Threats will not deter N. Korea, we need a message to send them and Iraq is going to serve as that. If we went over their and bombed those plants, Lil Kim as I like to call him would march the million troops he has 75miles away from Seol over there and completely destroy everyone and everything. At the point he loses nuclear capabilties, he can either tuck tail and run, or he can go out with a bang. I think we all now what the option is that he'll take

Other motives, I won't dismiss the possibility. BUT my trust lies in my country on this issue for the simple fact that I know that they know more than any of us can imagine. You have backstabbers like France screaming innocence, denying any consideration for new sanctions or a dead line of any sort, and taking money from Iraq to inflict resistance and buy other opinions , You have Iraq throwing curve balls, laughing at the accusations he's guilty of and continuing to expand that guilt by killing people, spawning rapists and decieving the world while increasing risk and possiblity of chaos with his growing power, and then you have America, Britain, and Spain proving guilt to the public with what I doubt is even half the evidence.

If we go to war and their are no weapons, no humans right violations and Bush is wrong, then I will hang my head in shame but I think we all know that is just not a possibility. The right and moral thing to do is extract a mendacious menace who commits violations in the public view of horrid nature. I can only imagine the torture he inflicts behind a closed door.

Oppose the war, fine. Appease the cause, what ever. Do not deny the facts or need to get him out of there by any means neccessary and get a bonus warning sent to Lil Kim in N. Korea that his time will come if he continues to show himself as a crazed tyrant.

[BIG TEXAN]

Amen Pheedno!

[Got Gear?]

Pheedno:

Send Korea a message? I don't think Iraq or any country should be the message. It's immoral. Send Korea a message directly, don't use Iraq as the notepad.

I'm not going to type out a list of all the sanctions in violation, and you're right I don't know them all.. there's alot of them. Here's a good website that lists most of them. Although it's almost 4 months outdated, it's pretty accurate. http://www.yonip.com/View%20Point/Bo...sages/121.html

I've reread your post a couple of times and I still cannot understand why you think Korea is such a different situation than that of Iraq. Maybe type it out short and directly for me, the ponts I did notice didn't seem to have any relevance. IE "It's not a UN country" and "They've always been crazy bastards" These sound more like similarities rather than differences.

I've seen media coverage showing hundreds if not thousands of Iraqi people protesting in the streets. If these are just fundamentalist groups, there's a whole shitload of people belonging to these groups.

Big Texan: I'm sorry, I shouldn't have labled all americans with that responce, you're correct. It's just frustrating, because whenever I get into this kind of debate I always get at least 1 american pop in with the "Well if it wasn't for the US's army Canada would be up shit creek" responce. And it's always untrue and irrelivant to the conversation anyway. Kinda gets frustrating after a while.

[chinups]

Dude they get messages, but they never listen to Voice Mail. Fuck Saddam, I am on the edge of my seat waiting for this to happen.