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  1. #1
    gbrice75's Avatar
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    The End of America???

    This should be interesting to American's and non-American's alike. It's very long winded and kind of boring, but worth checking out IMO:

    www.endofamerica13.com

  2. #2
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    I have seen this video and done active research to discredit it............all with no success.

    Obviously the points made are on the extreme end of the scale; however that doesn't change the fact that bad things are definitely in the works.

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    gbrice75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2 View Post
    I have seen this video and done active research to discredit it............all with no success.

    Obviously the points made are on the extreme end of the scale; however that doesn't change the fact that bad things are definitely in the works.
    ^ ^ well said.

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    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    Be careful GBrice, folks around here dont like to hear the truth.

  5. #5
    LatissimusaurousRex is offline Senior Member
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    lol, this is called selling

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    Be careful GBrice, folks around here dont like to hear the truth.
    Just because people don't subscribe to YOUR truth doesn't make them ignorant to truth. Careful with your assumptions.

    Anyway, sounds like a typical doomsday marketing tool to me. Fear always sales. He has good points but typical of many conservative thinkings, they take everything to their vast extremes, IMO.
    Last edited by BgMc31; 04-22-2011 at 03:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BgMc31 View Post
    Just because people don't subscribe to YOUR truth doesn't make them ignorant to truth. Careful with your assumptions.

    Anyway, sounds like a typical doomsday marketing tool to me. Fear always sales. He has good points but typical of many conservative thinkings, they take everything to their vast extremes, IMO.
    ^^^ x2

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    Everything he said made sense to me, yet I knew there was going to be a catch.
    Sure enough.

  9. #9
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    I dont think that i called anyone ignorant. I know people who dont believe half of what i tell them , and I dont consider them ignorant, just not informed. My mother has been calling me crazy for years, but just the other day she said a lot of the things that I said a few years ago would happen are happening.

    I do not look down on people because the do not share the same I deas of beliefs as me. I just try to show them different views on things and let them formulate their own opinions.

    I just want everyone to have the choice to see things in a different light. It aint all black and white.

  10. #10
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    Thank god.I like a lil HI DEF in my life

  11. #11
    dec11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan2 View Post
    I have seen this video and done active research to discredit it............all with no success.

    Obviously the points made are on the extreme end of the scale; however that doesn't change the fact that bad things are definitely in the works.
    they always were

  12. #12
    BgMc31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    I dont think that i called anyone ignorant. I know people who dont believe half of what i tell them , and I dont consider them ignorant, just not informed. My mother has been calling me crazy for years, but just the other day she said a lot of the things that I said a few years ago would happen are happening.

    I do not look down on people because the do not share the same I deas of beliefs as me. I just try to show them different views on things and let them formulate their own opinions.

    I just want everyone to have the choice to see things in a different light. It aint all black and white.
    You 1st post on this thread said people don't want to see the truth. But its YOUR truth. A lot of what you and Zab have posted has been debunked by other people's truth. So telling others that people on this site don't want to see the truth is essentially calling them ignorant. Ignorant meaning lack of knowledge. So you're right it's not black and white.

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    I posted this last time Byran tried to hype Stanberry's BS.

    While there is much truth in what he has reported, he is still a hype guy....and a scammer according to the US Securities and Exchange Commission and I think I read somewhere years ago that he was convicted of fraud.

    There is truth in his report and I know that most Americans have no idea how much crap their country is in, he is he hyping the markets. Russia and China have already abandonned the dollar as bilateral trade currency.

    He makes points about commodities that if you look at the greater market you see that commodity prices decline when heading towards a recession, then increase heading out of the recession. As we all know Gold and silver to a lesser extent are safe havens in these time, so they skyrocket. What he is saying may well happen...but not even close to the time line he puts foward.

    Why don't you buy his subscription and then come back on here on tell me what happened.....I'm sure you won't be speaking highly of Stansberry then
    Last edited by terraj; 04-22-2011 at 07:16 PM.

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    terraj's Avatar
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    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    BgMc We do no see eye to eye on a lot of things which is fine, but show me something I have posted that has been debunked. I post what I believe as do you I do not think u are ignorant. And I guarantee u if we met up 1 nite here in vegas we would have a good time brother. I am not our typical Vegas dude. you live here so you know what I am talkin about.

    This is a open site where we all post our opinions and views. I got love for all people. I feel that this is a place where I might be able to open some eyes and show like minded folks about what is really goin on. I do not get along with these doochebags here in Vegas.

    Take it for whatever you want, but again just my opinion. We have a lot of intelligant fellas here. why is so bad that I show you shit in a different light.

    BgMc you know Joe Rogan, right? And you feel he is a smart sound bro, right? I guarantee you that everything I have ever posted on here he would agree with. I do not know him personally but I know what he is about.

    Why cant we be friends? Sorry, i have been drinkin and eatin sushi for the last few hours and I just picked up some jack from Mr. Lees. So I will stop rambilin.

  16. #16
    terraj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    , but show me something I have posted that has been debunked. .
    Your said "Have ya ll even looked at what is going on in Japan. They are abandoning the nuclear facilities and it is dumping radioactive material into the Pacific"


    No one is abandoning anything.

    You also claimed that the US has ground troops in Libya. This is not so.

    That is 2 debunks, from a couple of your posts that I recall.... and I've been trying not to read your posts

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by terraj View Post
    I posted this last time Byran tried to hype Stanberry's BS.

    While there is much truth in what he has reported, he is still a hype guy....and a scammer according to the US Securities and Exchange Commission and I think I read somewhere years ago that he was convicted of fraud.

    There is truth in his report and I know that most Americans have no idea how much crap their country is in, he is he hyping the markets. Russia and China have already abandonned the dollar as bilateral trade currency.

    He makes points about commodities that if you look at the greater market you see that commodity prices decline when heading towards a recession, then increase heading out of the recession. As we all know Gold and silver to a lesser extent are safe havens in these time, so they skyrocket. What he is saying may well happen...but not even close to the time line he puts foward.

    Why don't you buy his subscription and then come back on here on tell me what happened.....I'm sure you won't be speaking highly of Stansberry then
    ^^ this and gold/silver have only shot up so high because there is NOWHERE else to put your money right now. Don't use the dollar, then use what? The euro, the yen, yuan? Give me a break. Our deficit is high but not that bad. Japan is like 200% and their currency hit an all time high recently if I remember correctly. The US has stuff that needs to be figured out, but its better than the alternative. BTW we went off the gold standard for a reason and that is what is credited for saving our asses. We never were really on the gold standard. Gold and silver are terraj said, a safe haven, no more no less.

  18. #18
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    Show me something that says that they have not abandoned reactor #1 #2 #3 and that they are not dumping radioactive material into the pacific? TEPCO is sending n robots to investigate.

    And the US does have troops on the ground in Lybia. That is a different thread, but it is still true. Maybe not a major force but still American Mllitary on the ground which makes this war #3 the Americans are in and paying for.

    I apologized to you already TerrJ for calling you an american military man.

  19. #19
    Times Roman's Avatar
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    I put this in the same round filing cabinet as the 2012 doomsdayers. We definately are NOT in good shape as a country, but look what happened during previos bad economic times. have we not always 'bounced back"? The circumstances are different, but aren't they always?

    The problem, in my opinion, is that many people get bullets of information, then get emotional 'deciding' what we should do. this situation is extremely complex, with negative consequences with every decision, and special interest ready and waiting to try and prevent ANY decision that may negatively impact their little niche in the world. And thus results in a type of paralysis, an inability of making good decisions.

    I'm learning that the "reality" we see on TV and read about in the newspapers may not necessarily be an accurate representation, and usually spun in a favorable light for those in power.

    The international news we see in America is EXTREMELY biased. Unfortunately, if all you get is a bullet of biased information, pretty hard to make an informed opinion.

    The government has really gotten good at making us all a bunch of sheep. We get "attacked" and this results in a constant state of war for over 10 years, and an increase of civil servants of over 50,000 (I'm thinking TSA). Look at all the crap our government gets away with by hyping a never ending war! You think by shaking down someone at the airport is justification for 40 or 50 tsa workers at a particular airport? Say an airport has 50 TSA workers, each making $50k/yr or more. that comes out to $2.5million dollars a year.... for what? Really not sure, are you? Who pays their salaries? That's right.... you and me. Part of our problem is our national debt (deficit). Another problem is our government makes political, self serving decisions, not rational economic decisions.

    Our problem as citizens is that as long as we got a couple of bucks in our pocket for a tank of gas and a six pack of beer, we become complacant and fat. These issues remain in the ethereal world and not in the real world of who pays for what.

  20. #20
    Times Roman's Avatar
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    Us Ground Troops In Libya - News Results
    Obama still opposed to US troops on ground in Libya Reuters via Yahoo! Philippines News - Apr 20 10:20am
    Obama Won't Send Ground Troops to Libya FOX 26 Houston - Apr 20 12:12pm
    Libya heading for stalemate - US BBC News - Apr 22 05:29am


    Scan latest headlines with the Y! News Toolbar.Search ResultsGen.: U.S. troops not ideal, but may be considered in Libya
    WASHINGTON - The United States may consider sending troops into Libya with a possible international ground force that could aid the rebels, according to ...
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20051760.shtml - Cached
    Obama: No U.S. Forces on the Ground in Libya… Except For ...
    NPR : “President Obama said Wednesday it was ‘absolutely’ out of the question that U.S. ground forces would be used in Libya.” How would the president ...
    http://www.nationalreview.com/campai...10/obama-no-us... - Cached
    Gates: No ground troops while 'I am in this job'
    WASHINGTON (AP) - As the U.S. debates its future role in the Libyan conflict, Defense officials slammed the brakes on any broad participation Thursday, with Defense ...
    minnesota.publicradio.org/.../2011/03/​31/libya-us/?refid=0 - Cached
    Obama still opposed to US troops on ground in Libya
    ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE (Reuters) - President Barack Obama still opposes sending U.S. ground troops to Libya, the White House said on Wednesday, but he ...
    in.reuters.com/article/2011/04/20/​idINIndia-56472220110420 - Cached
    Conyers: Congress Should Bar U.S. Ground Troops From Libya
    In the wake of President Obama's decision to go to war in Libya without Congressional authorization or debate, there's a heightened level of public and media cynicism ...
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...-ground-troops... - Cached
    Gates: No U.S. ground troops in Libya on his watch
    WASHINGTON (AP) — As the U.S. debates its future participation in the Libyan conflict, defense officials slammed the brakes Thursday on any major American role ...
    http://www.usatoday.com/.../2011-03-...en-libya_N.htm - Cached
    U.S. General: Ground Troops to Invade Libya Alex Jones ...
    Kurt Nimmo Infowars.com April 7, 2011. Army General Carter Ham told Congress today that while sending a globalist ground invasion force including American troops into Libya ...
    http://www.infowars.com/u-s-general-...o-invade-libya - Cached

  21. #21
    Times Roman's Avatar
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    I did a quick google, and didn't see a single thread suggesting that there are ground troups in Libya. If you have some data that suggests otherwise, I'd like to see it?

  22. #22
    Times Roman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    ^^ this and gold/silver have only shot up so high because there is NOWHERE else to put your money right now. Don't use the dollar, then use what? The euro, the yen, yuan? Give me a break. Our deficit is high but not that bad. Japan is like 200% and their currency hit an all time high recently if I remember correctly. The US has stuff that needs to be figured out, but its better than the alternative. BTW we went off the gold standard for a reason and that is what is credited for saving our asses. We never were really on the gold standard. Gold and silver are terraj said, a safe haven, no more no less.
    Current Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding
    04/21/2011 9,650,447,904,606.47 4,640,340,756,644.03 14,290,788,661,250.50
    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPD...application=np

    our national debt is $14.3 trillion dollars right at this moment. That means every man, woman and child owes $50k. for a family of four, this comes to $200k.

    Your government purchased a house while you weren't looking, and left you holding the bill. You think $200k for a family of four aint that bad? Really? Does this mean you have the ability of paying this off any time soon, or are you just going to punt this thing down field for the next generation to pay?

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    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    God Damn Times Roman Thank You brother. That is why i love this place.

    Your last statement is what I would love all of our brothers here to reckonize.
    Unemployment benefits extended for 100 weeks? Why? Because as long as you have enough to survive you want complain , much. Weak and hungry is real easy to control. EBT cards, welfare, public sector jobs? Read 1984. The private sector in this country has shrunk, as well as the middle class. Look around open your eyes.

  24. #24
    Times Roman's Avatar
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    ^ this is why I say we all have become sheep. You have a couple of bucks in your pocket for that six pack at the liquor store, and you just forget your family of 4 owes $200k. WE ARE the GOVERNMENT BROTHER! Wake up!!!!

  25. #25
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    Damn man I aint on welfare? And I dont owe anybody anything. Straight cash for me all day. I m not on the hook for that debt. I didnt fall into the trap of credit. I understand what you are sayin, but I am an american, but that is not my obligation. I did not incure that debt.

  26. #26
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    My dumbass father just declared bankruptcy for $989,000 he has been out of prison for 12years and managedto get himself into almost a million dollars in debt? So I understand everything you are sayin.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Times Roman View Post
    Current Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding
    04/21/2011 9,650,447,904,606.47 4,640,340,756,644.03 14,290,788,661,250.50
    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPD...application=np

    our national debt is $14.3 trillion dollars right at this moment. That means every man, woman and child owes $50k. for a family of four, this comes to $200k.

    Your government purchased a house while you weren't looking, and left you holding the bill. You think $200k for a family of four aint that bad? Really? Does this mean you have the ability of paying this off any time soon, or are you just going to punt this thing down field for the next generation to pay?
    Listen I'm not saying for one second that the government doesn't need to get shit under control, but if we are using your example then yes every man, woman child etc owes 50k, but they make $50k so its not that big of a deal. Not to mention assets held is like 250k per person. Anyway holding a debt of 100% income is not that big of a deal. NOT something I would ever do, unless for a house, but still, not that big of a deal. You can fix it relatively easily.
    Last edited by Twist; 04-23-2011 at 01:56 AM.

  28. #28
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    Again troops on the ground. What does that imply?

    US Military on the ground fighting/assisting? A full marine force? We have American men on the ground, right. It is costing us/American citizens money , resources, men. Reguardless of the size of the force. It aint necessary for our survival as a country. Thats all I mean. Stop these pointless wars. our debt, a lot of our debt is because of these useless wars. There are folks getting rich off of them, but it aint the populus.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    Again troops on the ground. What does that imply?

    US Military on the ground fighting/assisting? A full marine force? We have American men on the ground, right. It is costing us/American citizens money , resources, men. Reguardless of the size of the force. It aint necessary for our survival as a country. Thats all I mean. Stop these pointless wars. our debt, a lot of our debt is because of these useless wars. There are folks getting rich off of them, but it aint the populus.
    On your side about this 80%. Yeah the wars are useless and started to line the pockets of a select few. However there are reasons that we must support other countries. It is in our best interest in many cases. Not in the Iraq war case though. That was just started because the majority voted a ****ing moron into office. That case does not represent our interactions with other countries. Supporting the rebels move to democracy has to be done. They control some of a valuable resource. Enough said. I would fight for interests in resources.

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    Twist, so you do not think that there are alterial motives to invading/supporting the rebels in Lybia , NOW. i.e. money power, control.

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    Times Roman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    Damn man I aint on welfare? And I dont owe anybody anything. Straight cash for me all day. I m not on the hook for that debt. I didnt fall into the trap of credit. I understand what you are sayin, but I am an american, but that is not my obligation. I did not incure that debt.
    OK... let's see if I got this right.

    Your taxes are paying for interest on this debt? Is that correct? Or do you NOT pay taxes?

    If this is NOT your obligation, then why is YOUR income taxes paying for it? If it aint yours, then why pay it?

    Say you make $50k / year. And the marginal tax rate is, just say, 25%. This means you fork over $12.5k/year to the government. EVERY YEAR! In 10 years, you would have forked over $125k in taxes alone (not counting sales tax, dmv registration tax, gas tax.......)

    Or do you think that the $125k aint real money, since it just comes out of your paycheck, and you never see it?

    I'm confused. Please explain this to me, how you are not on the "HOOK"?

  32. #32
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    The government withheld over $10K from me last year. I got less than $1K back.. So I guess I got ****ed. Not interested in paying them in 2012.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    Twist, so you do not think that there are alterial motives to invading/supporting the rebels in Lybia , NOW. i.e. money power, control.
    That's the opposite of what I think. There are of course are motives to invading/supporting the rebels in libya. I am just saying that I support them. Some crazy man has control over resources and kills his defenseless citizens, I have no problem robbing this man of power. Why do you?

  34. #34
    Times Roman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    Listen I'm not saying for one second that the government doesn't need to get shit under control, but if we are using your example then yes every man, woman child etc owes 50k, but they make $50k so its not that big of a deal. Not to mention assets held is like 250k per person. Anyway holding a debt of 100% income is not that big of a deal. NOT something I would ever do, unless for a house, but still, not that big of a deal. You can fix it relatively easily.
    OK... let's talk accounting, since you brought up assets. Two issues to consider based on your statement:
    1) Acid test (current assets / current liabilities)
    2) Revenue producing assets

    1 - Acid test. We know the entire $14.3trillion dollars is, more or less, a current liability (for discussion purposes. - the reality is that some of this matures in more than a year, but hear me out for discussion purposes) But how much of our assets are "current" assets? Convertible to cash in the current period? half? less? or next to nothing? I don't know, but if federal land is an asset (it is), then by definition, this is not a current asset. The reality is we have very little current assets in our federal government. Therfore, or acid test would be an extremely low fraction (1 / 1000). As such, practically zero of our assets can be used to satisfy our current liabilities. From a business viewpoint, this government would fail any type of analytic that would suggest being in good health. The government survives because it literally has a gun pointed to your and your employers head to fork over the cash. Doubt my word? Try not paying your taxes... see what happens.

    2 - Revenue producing assets. OK. So you continue to think we are ok since we have all these assets. But how much of it actually produces revenue? All that federal land? How much revenue does that produce? Practically zero! So we cannot count on our assets to bail us out of this debt. In a bankruptcy liquidation, if we sold everything all at once, we'd only get pennies on the dollar, and we may, or may NOT, have sufficient assets to cover our liabilities.

    So how do we pay for our debt? Well, and again, the government quite literally has a gun aimed at your head. See what happens to people that don't pay their taxes? They go to jail. So did I hear you say you will resist going to jail? People have died for lesser crimes.

    We,. as a country, ARE NOT in good shape. This is the truth. We survive because of the gun pointed at your head. But the national debt is increasing at an expotential rate! Is this really fair to your children, who may not even be born yet? Well, according to the government, they don't really give a dam!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    Listen I'm not saying for one second that the government doesn't need to get shit under control, but if we are using your example then yes every man, woman child etc owes 50k, but they make $50k so its not that big of a deal. Not to mention assets held is like 250k per person. Anyway holding a debt of 100% income is not that big of a deal. NOT something I would ever do, unless for a house, but still, not that big of a deal. You can fix it relatively easily.
    the government likes good sheep, and this is good sheep thinking. But the logic is faulty. Your argument suggests that since you owe $50k and you make $50k then it just "washes" some how and it is no big deal? Do i have that right?

    Over the course of a year, how much "overhead" do you have?
    Motgage payment = $x per month x 12 months
    same with utilities
    groceries
    clothes,
    that aas you are taking
    and on and on and on....

    so now what you have left over at the end of the year is called discretionary savings. How much you got in your bank account right this second? Since this $50k debt we all owe to third party investers is no big deal, then I'm thinking you have OVER the $50k, and could easily pay this off with a snap of a finger?

    Well, the rest of us don't usually have as much savings as you, and therefore, It IS A PROBLEM for us. IF you can't pay it, then you must punt it down field for the next generation! Unless you have some other plan we don't know about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Times Roman View Post
    OK... let's talk accounting, since you brought up assets. Two issues to consider based on your statement:
    1) Acid test (current assets / current liabilities)
    2) Revenue producing assets

    1 - Acid test. We know the entire $14.3trillion dollars is, more or less, a current liability (for discussion purposes. - the reality is that some of this matures in more than a year, but hear me out for discussion purposes) But how much of our assets are "current" assets? Convertible to cash in the current period? half? less? or next to nothing? I don't know, but if federal land is an asset (it is), then by definition, this is not a current asset. The reality is we have very little current assets in our federal government. Therfore, or acid test would be an extremely low fraction (1 / 1000). As such, practically zero of our assets can be used to satisfy our current liabilities. From a business viewpoint, this government would fail any type of analytic that would suggest being in good health. The government survives because it literally has a gun pointed to your and your employers head to fork over the cash. Doubt my word? Try not paying your taxes... see what happens.

    2 - Revenue producing assets. OK. So you continue to think we are ok since we have all these assets. But how much of it actually produces revenue? All that federal land? How much revenue does that produce? Practically zero! So we cannot count on our assets to bail us out of this debt. In a bankruptcy liquidation, if we sold everything all at once, we'd only get pennies on the dollar, and we may, or may NOT, have sufficient assets to cover our liabilities.

    So how do we pay for our debt? Well, and again, the government quite literally has a gun aimed at your head. See what happens to people that don't pay their taxes? They go to jail. So did I hear you say you will resist going to jail? People have died for lesser crimes.

    We,. as a country, ARE NOT in good shape. This is the truth. We survive because of the gun pointed at your head. But the national debt is increasing at an expotential rate! Is this really fair to your children, who may not even be born yet? Well, according to the government, they don't really give a dam!
    I agree 100% with the bold. I am not advocating that we are in a great position, quite the opposite. But I am not screaming government meltdown because of our financial statements alone. I bought a motorcycle when I was 18 that was 98% of my income. It was a terrible move and I was in over my head for sure. You know what I did? I paid it off. I worked harder (raise taxes is what we need to do. those wealthy individuals getting tax cuts are ****ing this country. I benefit directly from these tax breaks and I still vote against them), I spent less (we need to cut costs, military spending, entitlements etc.), and I paid off my debt and I never did that dumb shit again. I am not saying we are in great shape, I am merely stating that it could be much worse and we are in a totally fixable position.

    As for the accounting Roman you asshole I come to you for accounting help! No way I am gonna try and outdo you in that field! I was merely stating that you compared our debt to individual people but didn't compare our income/assets etc to individual people.

  37. #37
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    ha ha ha! =) it's all good mate! and yeah, i can be an assshole from time to time! Nothing I haven't heard before

    my intent is not to hit the panic button, but instead to get people to wake up to what is going on around them. Only when people truly wake up and become discontent, is when we can fix this thing. But for now, we are in a perpetual state of war (extremely over reacting imho) that has been going on since shortly after my 12 year old daughter was born. So for ten years, we've been hypnotized into thinking things are not that bad, "cuz we at WAR!".... let's all grab a friggin flags and start waving that fukker, cuz we americans and we at WAR! And if the gumment wants to spend $1 trillion "Cuz we at WAR!!" then it's all good right?

    And here's where you can hand me my head on a platter. Does this really mean we ARE at war, or just police officers at the beck and call of the politicians back home?

    So for the ten years, and the trillion dollars we have spent, what have we to show for it? Cuz I'd like to know. It just seems that once we wrap up things at one place, we start looking at another place to send "our police officers" When is this fukken war going to end? Or will it? I'm starting to think not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Times Roman View Post
    I did a quick google, and didn't see a single thread suggesting that there are ground troups in Libya. If you have some data that suggests otherwise, I'd like to see it?
    They are not on the ground and will not be while Nato are in the air.

    Nato bomded rebels twice in the last week....

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    and my search seems to support your comment....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Times Roman View Post
    and my search seems to support your comment....
    oh look at that, we do agree sometimes...

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