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  1. #1
    MACHINE5150's Avatar
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    Prison guards make more than Harvard grads

    This is one of the many reasons California is going broke.. and for that matter a large part of why America is going broke.. they imprison more than all other first world countries COMBINED!!! yet still have higher crime rates than most of Western Europe.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...ee/?test=faces

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    DSM4Life's Avatar
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    Please don't ever quote fox "news" again. If you do I will ban you.

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    terrible job, high rates of catching hep as a prison guard as well

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    MACHINE5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSM4Life View Post
    Please don't ever quote fox "news" again. If you do I will ban you.

    hahaha.. yeah i know they are horrible.. it is hilarious how blatant it is.. even on the home page it shows a picture of Bush's reaction to the news regarding bin Laden rather than Obama's speech about it.

    i read my news for all different sources and make up my own mind..

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINE5150 View Post
    hahaha.. yeah i know they are horrible.. it is hilarious how blatant it is.. even on the home page it shows a picture of Bush's reaction to the news regarding bin Laden rather than Obama's speech about it.

    i read my news for all different sources and make up my own mind..
    same here. trust me, i have a degree and i have friends without one making 3 times as me! f'ed up world!

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    Times Roman's Avatar
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    i have a few friends that are prison guards. I refuse to call them CO's. fukkit

    anyways, they all make over $100k/year, with all the double shifts they are allowed to work. Sad part is, in the view of many that have invested heaviliy in their education, is that these three just have HS diplomas.

    Yes, this is really an out of balance situation. and what else? great retirement benefits! who get's that now adays... throwing a MF in jail is BIG BUSINESS~!

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    Why is this out of balance???

    Do you think that just because a person graduated from Harvard, it means they are "worth" more money per year, than a person guarding the public from extremely dangerous members of society?

    You think that someone who gradautes Harvard with their B.A. in Women's Studies is going to be able to find a $100k/yr job? Maybe at a non-profit or an NGO, but thats doubtful. The truth of the matter is, that just "getting" a college education is NOT ENOUGH. What your college education is IN, is just as important as getting the college education ITSELF. There are a handful of majors, which a single celled organism could pass and be awarded a B.A.

    We're so quick to automatically think that a college degree (any college, but of course HYP is always used as an example) means that a person is GOING to make more money than non-HS grads. This is a complex metric right now. We are a highly developed society but we have an 'information' economy. We seldom produce things, for instance, its cheaper to let foreign companies manufacture our drugs, but we know how to MARKET THEM BETTER. The problem is, when the economy is trending downward, these jobs dry up, and then the only work left which pays a relatively high wage are high risk civil service jobs. Most corrections officers, state police officers, and any Federal GS-1811 position, will ALL make north of $80,000 per year. The latter of course all require college diplomas, but the others do not.

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    I did it for 6 years. and let me tell you if you knew the stuff they went through and put up with it would make sense..

    there are tons and tons of jobs that you can make 6 figures with only a high school education, but what the article leaves out is that they work 12 hour shifts, work holidays, and hardly get time off.. prison guards as simple and easy as the job is at times is very stressful at many places..

    being in the military is a whole lot less stressful than being a corrections officer in a lot of places.

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    I wouldn’t do that job for 100k. You are surrounded by people who want to kill you 24/7, you are constantly in danger of catching all kinds of dieses, people are throwing piss, sh*t at you and much more.

    Just because someone can afford to go to an elite school does not mean they are better or smarter than the next person. Opportunity and environment is a big factor. Luckily some of us are able to work/climb/crawl our way up the ladder to reach a place that we can work and make a good living without having been born with a silver spoon or taking out ridiculous large loans to go to school only to have to work the next 20 years paying the loans off or filling bankruptcy.

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    Times Roman's Avatar
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    it is out of balance because it is subsidized by tax payer dollars. The effort to privatize the prison system in california is met head on by the powerful Unions these members belong to. they contribute heavily to the campaigns of their political supporters, and these corrupt systems remain intact.

    In states where there is privatization, the pay is considerably less.

    The retirements of California prison guards is extremely rich.

    The out of balance is derived from basic economics.

    When the supply of a talent pool is high, and the demand is relatively low, then in a typical economic system, the pay would also be lower than what it is now.

    The entry requirements are not that rigorous, either academically or physically. Therefore there is a huge population of willing candidates.

    Since the ratio of job openings to candidates is low, then it would normally be an employers market, able to set the price.

    It is out of balance since normal market mechanisms are not allowed to work as they normally would.

    So long as this system gets to suck off the taxpayer, then it will remain out of balance.

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    I know plenty of people without degrees that make more than college grads. Why should an education outweigh good old hard work? Lets not forget these guys are working 60-80 hrs /week. The job sucks - its dangerous. Dangerous Job SHOULD = higher pay. Now if you choose to be a police officer/military - you go in KNOWING the pay isnt proportional or fair based on risk - thats is/was your choice. Pay obviously is not your motivation.
    Also hourly is it really that great based on 40 hr work week?
    Maybe they should just simply hire more so less OT is needed - then you have more people employeed making a good salary-or with benfits etc would that end up costing more?
    Privitization of the prison system on ANY level (local , state,federal) is a HORRIBLE idea/practice. Privitized prisons become a revenue source. Once that occurs corruption is inevitable. Also while private companies tout reduced rate of recitvism this is akin to tobacco companies saying they dont want people to smoke.

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    California is a mongrel State in decline.

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    It strikes me as funny . We don't blame criminals for causing problem .
    Maybe if there was better public education or more jobs available then people wouldn't need incarceration .
    Shipping work out of the country to profit the few with money makes sense so the many without fight among them selves.

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    Times Roman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    I know plenty of people without degrees that make more than college grads. Why should an education outweigh good old hard work? Lets not forget these guys are working 60-80 hrs /week. The job sucks - its dangerous. Dangerous Job SHOULD = higher pay. Now if you choose to be a police officer/military - you go in KNOWING the pay isnt proportional or fair based on risk - thats is/was your choice. Pay obviously is not your motivation.
    Also hourly is it really that great based on 40 hr work week?
    Maybe they should just simply hire more so less OT is needed - then you have more people employeed making a good salary-or with benfits etc would that end up costing more?
    Privitization of the prison system on ANY level (local , state,federal) is a HORRIBLE idea/practice. Privitized prisons become a revenue source. Once that occurs corruption is inevitable. Also while private companies tout reduced rate of recitvism this is akin to tobacco companies saying they dont want people to smoke.
    Let's see.... where do we start?

    First of all, NOT getting a college degree is an easier task than getting a college degree. While my buddies were out making a living wage and having a good time, I was busting my asss NOT getting paid for several years, and investing in my future. You assume college degree does not mean hard work or long hours. Really? I put in more hours than most of the people I know. So in addition of several years of no pay cuz i was busting my asss improving my job skills, marketability, and education, I am also out there working long hours AND assuming HUGE responsibilities (called ownership mentality)

    Dangerous? OK... i'll bite. I don't know, so let me just ask a few questions. I know a few prison guards out at Corchoran (where Manson is kept), and statistically it seems fairly safe. If a prison guard has died anytime in the last five years, it's a big secret cuz none of these dudes are saying anything. What they are exposed to is foul mouthed, trashy inmates that you have to keep an eye on. Yes, there is a risk. But if you compared it to firemen, or crop dusters, which would be more dangerous? From what I hear, and I could be wrong, mostly these guys are telling me it's a pretty boring job where you don't do much. Again, I could be wrong. Some one please correct me if I am... I am only going on what other prison guards tell me.

    Why is privatization a horrible idea? It is successful in many other states in the USA. My DCOP was an HR director for a private prison system spanning several states, and I hear him talk about it. For one, in a private system, when you catch someone doing something, it is easy to fire them, and you don't have to deal with the Union Reps trying to preserve THEIR revenue stream! Two, why does privatization as a "for profit" automatically mean it is corrupt? There is plenty of corruption in the state run prisons. So if you have some data to back up your claim, I'd like to check it out. I think what you are thinking is from the Union Reps play book if anything.

    You are comparing a private prison system to the tobacco industry? Where did you come up with that? the two are very dissimilar.
    Last edited by Times Roman; 05-04-2011 at 09:16 AM.

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    and the funny thing is that most people that say college degrees aren't worth much, usually don't have a college degree

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    Quote Originally Posted by Times Roman View Post
    Let's see.... where do we start?

    First of all, NOT getting a college degree is an easier task than getting a college degree. While my buddies were out making a living wage and having a good time, I was busting my asss NOT getting paid for several years, and investing in my future. You assume college degree does not mean hard work or long hours. Really? I put in more hours than most of the people I know. So in addition of several years of no pay cuz i was busting my asss improving my job skills, marketability, and education, I am also out there working long hours AND assuming HUGE responsibilities (called ownership mentality)

    Dangerous? OK... i'll bite. I don't know, so let me just ask a few questions. I know a few prison guards out at Corchoran (where Manson is kept), and statistically it seems fairly safe. If a prison guard has died anytime in the last five years, it's a big secret cuz none of these dudes are saying anything. What they are exposed to is foul mouthed, trashy inmates that you have to keep an eye on. Yes, there is a risk. But if you compared it to firemen, or crop dusters, which would be more dangerous? From what I hear, and I could be wrong, mostly these guys are telling me it's a pretty boring job where you don't do much. Again, I could be wrong. Some one please correct me if I am... I am only going on what other prison guards tell me.

    Why is privatization a horrible idea? It is successful in many other states in the USA. My DCOP was an HR director for a private prison system spanning several states, and I hear him talk about it. For one, in a private system, when you catch someone doing something, it is easy to fire them, and you don't have to deal with the Union Reps trying to preserve THEIR revenue stream! Two, why does privatization as a "for profit" automatically mean it is corrupt? There is plenty of corruption in the state run prisons. So if you have some data to back up your claim, I'd like to check it out. I think what you are thinking is from the Union Reps play book if anything.

    You are comparing a private prison system to the tobacco industry? Where did you come up with that? the two are very dissimilar.
    Easier task? Are you serioius? You are assuming every job is a mindless task. First of all i read a book that stated a homeless man works as hard every day as a fotune 500 ceo. I believe it.
    Years improving your job skills - yes just like an apprentice in a trade.
    I have a degree , i also come from a blue collar family where i watched my father bust his ass and make more money than ALOT of college grads. Deservedly so - he became tops in his trade and worked very hard. Why is he any less deservinbg of the money he made than a collge grad? He struggled for years learning his craft - not making shit - a STUDENT of his trade.

    Lets see surrond yourself with convicted violent offenders and murderes with a ratio of 100 prisoner to 1 guard (this is LOW# btw)and you tell me why its dangerous. Thats just common sense. A firemen is a dengerous job - they are also pubic service jobs people enter into knowing they wont make alot of money. Also btw Professional fireman in many areas make damn good money (deservedly so) and spend the majority of their time doing very little as well.

    Privatization is a hotbed for corruption becuase in that scenario the prison becomes a revenue source for the county (state whatever). In some counties it is the largest revenue source - it is no coincidence that these are the counties boasting 99% conviction rates - usually achieved by immoral law enforcement and putting accused people in a position to take a deal because the deal is better than the risk of losing a trial in a corrupt judicial system. You tell a person accused of dui they can takje the deal and get 90 days or go to trial and if they lose get 2 years. What would you do ? You have a family you need to support and so on. Its no longer about whether you are innocent or guilty. In the state where I live one county has a private prison - it is always full. The county next to it is a county run prison that is always around 70 % full. The demographic of each county is identical. HMMMMMMM. The arrest #'s in both counties = nearly identical. HMMM
    Private prsion system is JUST like tobacco industry in the sense that while tobacco companies in no way want people to stop smoking - private prisons in no way want criminals to stop commiting crimes. The statistic provided by both tobacco as far as # of people they have ultimately helped to stop smoking and private prisions #' they have reformed - are both BS.

    You know what if these type jobs are so great and easy - go get one. Thats what i say. Its just like when people say teachers have the life - work 9 months - off all summer - make great money - well then go be a teacher if its so great. The point is a collge degree entitles you to nothing. It affords opportunites in some cases - it doesnt entitle you to more money and it doesnt preclude you from taking a job like a prison guard. Obviously you are begrudging someone for making a lot of money doing a job you DONT want to do!
    Its your choice - stop whining about it.

    I have a degree - my Dad doesnt. Am i smarter than him or more deserving in any way? Hell no - He is one of the smartest men i have ever met and deserves evrything he had EARNED in life. Half the problem in the US is a couple generations of "ENTITLED" college grads - to good to take jobs beneath them. Too proud to do whatever it takes to make a living - they would rather collect off the govenrment that take a job on a constrution site as a laborer.
    I am blessed. I have a good job - but bet your ass if I lost it and push came to shove i would dig a ditch if i had to to support my family - and i wouldnt whine saying "oh but i have a degree". If i was making $25-$45 /hr doing it (like road crews-making that or more with double time for holidays etc)) i also wouldn't feel bad because a college grad somewhere is making less than me. I also dont begrudge the man with a landscaping business - who cuts grass for a living - and has grown his business through hard work and now makes more than i do. But wait I have a degree!! BS !

    Three Men:
    One goes to college for 4-5 years so he can make 100k
    One learns a trade and busts his ass - starts his own business so he can make 100k
    One takes a job where he will have to work 60-80 hrs in a shitty dangerous environment so he can make 100k

    Why begrudge anyone for the decision they made? Why is one entitled to any more than another? If you dont like what you have to do in reltaion to what someone else has to do to earn that money - simply do something else. My point is its all choice - dont begrudge a man for his choice - all the options are avail to everyone .
    A college grad could quit his job and get a job being a prison guard. A prison Guard could learn a trade . A carpenter could go to college.
    Last edited by jimmyinkedup; 05-04-2011 at 10:22 AM.

  18. #18
    MACHINE5150's Avatar
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    my arguement was that Prison guards don't do shit except sit on their ass and read magazines.. and maybe once in a blue moon get shit thrown in their face.. why should they be making twice as much as cops do when most cops are actually working instead of sitting in a chair.. i have been locked up, and i know what they do all day.. yes a few get spit or swhit thrown on them but the only time they get hurt is when they fvck up and/or they did something to piss off one of the prisoners.. i agree that tradesmen should make as much as college educated people as a specialist is a specialist and a college degree is not what it used to be.. nowadays everyone is getting one.. you can even get one online and half of what you learn in college is irrelevant to the real world.. i have 1,000,000% more respect for people who went to college and paid their own way.. there are SO MANY stupid chicks that can't even tie their shoes who's daddy is paying their way through college so they can get an "art" or "business" degree.. yet when they get out of college they dont even know how to file a form with the Department of Corporations... or know the difference between gross and net profits..

    In cali, as most states.. if you want to be a Sheriff, you have to do 2 years as a guard in the jail first.. why do they get paid half what the guys do in the prisons?? that was all i was saying..

  19. #19
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    Two Pennsylvania Judges Accused Of Jailing Kids For Millions Of Dollars In Kickbacks
    MICHAEL RUBINKAM and MARYCLAIRE DALE | February 11, 2009 06:16 PM EST |

    WILKES-BARRE, Pa. For years, the juvenile court system in Wilkes-Barre operated like a conveyor belt: Youngsters were brought before judges without a lawyer, given hearings that lasted only a minute or two, and then sent off to juvenile prison for months for minor offenses.

    The explanation, prosecutors say, was corruption on the bench.

    In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

    "I've never encountered, and I don't think that we will in our lifetimes, a case where literally thousands of kids' lives were just tossed aside in order for a couple of judges to make some money," said Marsha Levick, an attorney with the Philadelphia-based Juvenile Law Center, which is representing hundreds of youths sentenced in Wilkes-Barre.

    Prosecutors say Luzerne County Judges Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan took $2.6 million in payoffs to put juvenile offenders in lockups run by PA Child Care LLC and a sister company, Western PA Child Care LLC. The judges were charged on Jan. 26 and removed from the bench by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court shortly afterward.

    No company officials have been charged, but the investigation is still going on.

    The high court, meanwhile, is looking into whether hundreds or even thousands of sentences should be overturned and the juveniles' records expunged.

    Among the offenders were teenagers who were locked up for months for stealing loose change from cars, writing a prank note and possessing drug paraphernalia. Many had never been in trouble before. Some were imprisoned even after probation officers recommended against it.

    Story continues below
    AdvertisementMany appeared without lawyers, despite the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark 1967 ruling that children have a constitutional right to counsel.

    The judges are scheduled to plead guilty to fraud Thursday in federal court. Their plea agreements call for sentences of more than seven years behind bars.

    Ciavarella, 58, who presided over Luzerne County's juvenile court for 12 years, acknowledged last week in a letter to his former colleagues, "I have disgraced my judgeship. My actions have destroyed everything I worked to accomplish and I have only myself to blame." Ciavarella, though, has denied he got kickbacks for sending youths to prison.

    Conahan, 56, has remained silent about the case.

    Many Pennsylvania counties contract with privately run juvenile detention centers, paying them either a fixed overall fee or a certain amount per youth, per day.

    In Luzerne County, prosecutors say, Conahan shut down the county-run juvenile prison in 2002 and helped the two companies secure rich contracts worth tens of millions of dollars, at least some of that dependent on how many juveniles were locked up.

    One of the contracts _ a 20-year agreement with PA Child Care worth an estimated $58 million _ was later canceled by the county as exorbitant.

    The judges are accused of taking payoffs between 2003 and 2006.

    Robert J. Powell co-owned PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care until June. His attorney, Mark Sheppard, said his client was the victim of an extortion scheme.

    "Bob Powell never solicited a nickel from these judges and really was a victim of their demands," he said. "These judges made it very plain to Mr. Powell that he was going to be required to pay certain monies."

    For years, youth advocacy groups complained that Ciavarella was ridiculously harsh and ran roughshod over youngsters' constitutional rights. Ciavarella sent a quarter of his juvenile defendants to detention centers from 2002 to 2006, compared with a statewide rate of one in 10.

    The criminal charges confirmed the advocacy groups' worst suspicions and have called into question all the sentences he pronounced.

    Hillary Transue did not have an attorney, nor was she told of her right to one, when she appeared in Ciavarella's courtroom in 2007 for building a MySpace page that lampooned her assistant principal.

    Her mother, Laurene Transue, worked for 16 years in the child services department of another county and said she was certain Hillary would get a slap on the wrist. Instead, Ciavarella sentenced her to three months; she got out after a month, with help from a lawyer.

    "I felt so disgraced for a while, like, what do people think of me now?" said Hillary, now 17 and a high school senior who plans to become an English teacher.

    Laurene Transue said Ciavarella "was playing God. And not only was he doing that, he was getting money for it. He was betraying the trust put in him to do what is best for children."

    Kurt Kruger, now 22, had never been in trouble with the law until the day police accused him of acting as a lookout while his friend shoplifted less than $200 worth of DVDs from Wal-Mart. He said he didn't know his friend was going to steal anything.

    Kruger pleaded guilty before Ciavarella and spent three days in a company-run juvenile detention center, plus four months at a youth wilderness camp run by a different operator.

    "Never in a million years did I think that I would actually get sent away. I was completely destroyed," said Kruger, who later dropped out of school. He said he wants to get his record expunged, earn his high school equivalency diploma and go to college.

    "I got a raw deal, and yeah, it's not fair," he said, "but now it's 100 times bigger than me."




    THIS IS WHY...And I'm a god damn Libertarian!, and even I don't agree with privatizing prisons.

  20. #20
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    ^^^^Very good article... and what makes it even worse is that YOUR tax dollars were paying for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    Two Pennsylvania Judges Accused Of Jailing Kids For Millions Of Dollars In Kickbacks
    MICHAEL RUBINKAM and MARYCLAIRE DALE | February 11, 2009 06:16 PM EST |

    WILKES-BARRE, Pa. � For years, the juvenile court system in Wilkes-Barre operated like a conveyor belt: Youngsters were brought before judges without a lawyer, given hearings that lasted only a minute or two, and then sent off to juvenile prison for months for minor offenses.

    The explanation, prosecutors say, was corruption on the bench.

    In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

    "I've never encountered, and I don't think that we will in our lifetimes, a case where literally thousands of kids' lives were just tossed aside in order for a couple of judges to make some money," said Marsha Levick, an attorney with the Philadelphia-based Juvenile Law Center, which is representing hundreds of youths sentenced in Wilkes-Barre.

    Prosecutors say Luzerne County Judges Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan took $2.6 million in payoffs to put juvenile offenders in lockups run by PA Child Care LLC and a sister company, Western PA Child Care LLC. The judges were charged on Jan. 26 and removed from the bench by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court shortly afterward.

    No company officials have been charged, but the investigation is still going on.

    The high court, meanwhile, is looking into whether hundreds or even thousands of sentences should be overturned and the juveniles' records expunged.

    Among the offenders were teenagers who were locked up for months for stealing loose change from cars, writing a prank note and possessing drug paraphernalia. Many had never been in trouble before. Some were imprisoned even after probation officers recommended against it.

    Story continues below
    AdvertisementMany appeared without lawyers, despite the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark 1967 ruling that children have a constitutional right to counsel.

    The judges are scheduled to plead guilty to fraud Thursday in federal court. Their plea agreements call for sentences of more than seven years behind bars.

    Ciavarella, 58, who presided over Luzerne County's juvenile court for 12 years, acknowledged last week in a letter to his former colleagues, "I have disgraced my judgeship. My actions have destroyed everything I worked to accomplish and I have only myself to blame." Ciavarella, though, has denied he got kickbacks for sending youths to prison.

    Conahan, 56, has remained silent about the case.

    Many Pennsylvania counties contract with privately run juvenile detention centers, paying them either a fixed overall fee or a certain amount per youth, per day.

    In Luzerne County, prosecutors say, Conahan shut down the county-run juvenile prison in 2002 and helped the two companies secure rich contracts worth tens of millions of dollars, at least some of that dependent on how many juveniles were locked up.

    One of the contracts _ a 20-year agreement with PA Child Care worth an estimated $58 million _ was later canceled by the county as exorbitant.

    The judges are accused of taking payoffs between 2003 and 2006.

    Robert J. Powell co-owned PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care until June. His attorney, Mark Sheppard, said his client was the victim of an extortion scheme.

    "Bob Powell never solicited a nickel from these judges and really was a victim of their demands," he said. "These judges made it very plain to Mr. Powell that he was going to be required to pay certain monies."

    For years, youth advocacy groups complained that Ciavarella was ridiculously harsh and ran roughshod over youngsters' constitutional rights. Ciavarella sent a quarter of his juvenile defendants to detention centers from 2002 to 2006, compared with a statewide rate of one in 10.

    The criminal charges confirmed the advocacy groups' worst suspicions and have called into question all the sentences he pronounced.

    Hillary Transue did not have an attorney, nor was she told of her right to one, when she appeared in Ciavarella's courtroom in 2007 for building a MySpace page that lampooned her assistant principal.

    Her mother, Laurene Transue, worked for 16 years in the child services department of another county and said she was certain Hillary would get a slap on the wrist. Instead, Ciavarella sentenced her to three months; she got out after a month, with help from a lawyer.

    "I felt so disgraced for a while, like, what do people think of me now?" said Hillary, now 17 and a high school senior who plans to become an English teacher.

    Laurene Transue said Ciavarella "was playing God. And not only was he doing that, he was getting money for it. He was betraying the trust put in him to do what is best for children."

    Kurt Kruger, now 22, had never been in trouble with the law until the day police accused him of acting as a lookout while his friend shoplifted less than $200 worth of DVDs from Wal-Mart. He said he didn't know his friend was going to steal anything.

    Kruger pleaded guilty before Ciavarella and spent three days in a company-run juvenile detention center, plus four months at a youth wilderness camp run by a different operator.

    "Never in a million years did I think that I would actually get sent away. I was completely destroyed," said Kruger, who later dropped out of school. He said he wants to get his record expunged, earn his high school equivalency diploma and go to college.

    "I got a raw deal, and yeah, it's not fair," he said, "but now it's 100 times bigger than me."




    THIS IS WHY...And I'm a god damn Libertarian!, and even I don't agree with privatizing prisons.
    Great Examples.
    Other ways privatization of prisons provides "LEGITIMATE" revenue that results in corruption:

    Many people think how can the county "make" money - dont they just save money by privitization? No they dont just save - they make MILLIONS . The stats im going to quote come from an article re: a county where the prison has been "outsourced" to a company called cec.
    1- taxes - property ond otherwise are collected from these facilites
    2- All phone system profits go to county - the prison referenced in article generates 4 MILLION annually in phone revenue
    3- Commisary revenue (food and toiletries prisoners purchase)- the prison referenced in article generates 3-4 MILLION profit annually in commisary sales. At least this is the potrtion of profit which goes to the county.

    Thats 8 million annually not counting taxes! It PAYS to keepp these facilities full - this breeds corruptiuon on almost every level. In the county referred to above it was uncovered that the judges , prosecutors, public defenders office and prison employess all attend an annual golf outing in addition to other annual events all payed for by .....you guessed it ...CEC.

    Privitization is a HORRIBLE idea.
    Last edited by jimmyinkedup; 05-04-2011 at 05:01 PM.

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    I believe the US hold people in prison for WAY TOO long as well.. the US needs to take another look at their sentencing guidelines when it comes to non-violent and drug crimes sentencing

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINE5150 View Post
    my arguement was that Prison guards don't do shit except sit on their ass and read magazines.. and maybe once in a blue moon get shit thrown in their face.. why should they be making twice as much as cops do when most cops are actually working instead of sitting in a chair.. i have been locked up, and i know what they do all day.. yes a few get spit or swhit thrown on them but the only time they get hurt is when they fvck up and/or they did something to piss off one of the prisoners.. i agree that tradesmen should make as much as college educated people as a specialist is a specialist and a college degree is not what it used to be.. nowadays everyone is getting one.. you can even get one online and half of what you learn in college is irrelevant to the real world.. i have 1,000,000% more respect for people who went to college and paid their own way.. there are SO MANY stupid chicks that can't even tie their shoes who's daddy is paying their way through college so they can get an "art" or "business" degree.. yet when they get out of college they dont even know how to file a form with the Department of Corporations... or know the difference between gross and net profits..

    In cali, as most states.. if you want to be a Sheriff, you have to do 2 years as a guard in the jail first.. why do they get paid half what the guys do in the prisons?? that was all i was saying..
    Your assumption of prison guards doing nothing but sit on their ass is way off based, Machine. I did it right after retiring from playing football at the fed pen in NM. I guarantee you that you really don't know what you are talking about here. Usually cops and corrections officers make about the same amount of money. And studies already prove that the mental rigors of corrections officers are tougher than cops. Remember you are locked up with the worst of the worst 8-16hrs a day. You life is constantly at risk. Your mental state changes. So before you go off the deep end, research the profession or better yet, try to be one and you'll see how wrong you are.

  24. #24
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    Yeah you are way off track Machine.That prison is theirs at any givin time.You can be taken out at any given time.You are always on alert.You think its easy money.Give it a try.

  25. #25
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    people can think they sit on their ass.. but everybody pictures the simple drug offenders not the other 40percent of criminals they love to fight because in prison fighting a corrections officer doesn't get them any more time.. and i have personally seen them cover themselves in blood, piss, or shit and run at people.. people picture what they see in a movie not what really goes on and the legal aspect behind the scene.

    there are some that sit on their ass.. but by no means is that all or even most

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    Great Examples.
    Other ways privatization of prisons provides "LEGITIMATE" revenue that results in corruption:

    Many people think how can the county "make" money - dont they just save money by privitization? No they dont just save - they make MILLIONS . The stats im going to quote come from an article re: a county where the prison has been "outsourced" to a company called cec.
    1- taxes - property ond otherwise are collected from these facilites
    2- All phone system profits go to county - the prison referenced in article generates 4 MILLION annually in phone revenue
    3- Commisary revenue (food and toiletries prisoners purchase)- the prison referenced in article generates 3-4 MILLION profit annually in commisary sales. At least this is the potrtion of profit which goes to the county.

    Thats 8 million annually not counting taxes! It PAYS to keepp these facilities full - this breeds corruptiuon on almost every level. In the county referred to above it was uncovered that the judges , prosecutors, public defenders office and prison employess all attend an annual golf outing in addition to other annual events all payed for by .....you guessed it ...CEC.

    Privitization is a HORRIBLE idea.
    Agree x2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0jus2XNhiY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2r7YqHCG14

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00 View Post
    same here. trust me, i have a degree and i have friends without one making 3 times as me! f'ed up world!
    tell me about it, i might as well of spent 4yrs doing the hokie cokie

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    Two Pennsylvania Judges Accused Of Jailing Kids For Millions Of Dollars In Kickbacks
    MICHAEL RUBINKAM and MARYCLAIRE DALE | February 11, 2009 06:16 PM EST |

    WILKES-BARRE, Pa. — For years, the juvenile court system in Wilkes-Barre operated like a conveyor belt: Youngsters were brought before judges without a lawyer, given hearings that lasted only a minute or two, and then sent off to juvenile prison for months for minor offenses.

    The explanation, prosecutors say, was corruption on the bench.

    In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

    "I've never encountered, and I don't think that we will in our lifetimes, a case where literally thousands of kids' lives were just tossed aside in order for a couple of judges to make some money," said Marsha Levick, an attorney with the Philadelphia-based Juvenile Law Center, which is representing hundreds of youths sentenced in Wilkes-Barre.

    Prosecutors say Luzerne County Judges Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan took $2.6 million in payoffs to put juvenile offenders in lockups run by PA Child Care LLC and a sister company, Western PA Child Care LLC. The judges were charged on Jan. 26 and removed from the bench by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court shortly afterward.

    No company officials have been charged, but the investigation is still going on.

    The high court, meanwhile, is looking into whether hundreds or even thousands of sentences should be overturned and the juveniles' records expunged.

    Among the offenders were teenagers who were locked up for months for stealing loose change from cars, writing a prank note and possessing drug paraphernalia. Many had never been in trouble before. Some were imprisoned even after probation officers recommended against it.

    Story continues below
    AdvertisementMany appeared without lawyers, despite the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark 1967 ruling that children have a constitutional right to counsel.

    The judges are scheduled to plead guilty to fraud Thursday in federal court. Their plea agreements call for sentences of more than seven years behind bars.

    Ciavarella, 58, who presided over Luzerne County's juvenile court for 12 years, acknowledged last week in a letter to his former colleagues, "I have disgraced my judgeship. My actions have destroyed everything I worked to accomplish and I have only myself to blame." Ciavarella, though, has denied he got kickbacks for sending youths to prison.

    Conahan, 56, has remained silent about the case.

    Many Pennsylvania counties contract with privately run juvenile detention centers, paying them either a fixed overall fee or a certain amount per youth, per day.

    In Luzerne County, prosecutors say, Conahan shut down the county-run juvenile prison in 2002 and helped the two companies secure rich contracts worth tens of millions of dollars, at least some of that dependent on how many juveniles were locked up.

    One of the contracts _ a 20-year agreement with PA Child Care worth an estimated $58 million _ was later canceled by the county as exorbitant.

    The judges are accused of taking payoffs between 2003 and 2006.

    Robert J. Powell co-owned PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care until June. His attorney, Mark Sheppard, said his client was the victim of an extortion scheme.

    "Bob Powell never solicited a nickel from these judges and really was a victim of their demands," he said. "These judges made it very plain to Mr. Powell that he was going to be required to pay certain monies."

    For years, youth advocacy groups complained that Ciavarella was ridiculously harsh and ran roughshod over youngsters' constitutional rights. Ciavarella sent a quarter of his juvenile defendants to detention centers from 2002 to 2006, compared with a statewide rate of one in 10.

    The criminal charges confirmed the advocacy groups' worst suspicions and have called into question all the sentences he pronounced.

    Hillary Transue did not have an attorney, nor was she told of her right to one, when she appeared in Ciavarella's courtroom in 2007 for building a MySpace page that lampooned her assistant principal.

    Her mother, Laurene Transue, worked for 16 years in the child services department of another county and said she was certain Hillary would get a slap on the wrist. Instead, Ciavarella sentenced her to three months; she got out after a month, with help from a lawyer.

    "I felt so disgraced for a while, like, what do people think of me now?" said Hillary, now 17 and a high school senior who plans to become an English teacher.

    Laurene Transue said Ciavarella "was playing God. And not only was he doing that, he was getting money for it. He was betraying the trust put in him to do what is best for children."

    Kurt Kruger, now 22, had never been in trouble with the law until the day police accused him of acting as a lookout while his friend shoplifted less than $200 worth of DVDs from Wal-Mart. He said he didn't know his friend was going to steal anything.

    Kruger pleaded guilty before Ciavarella and spent three days in a company-run juvenile detention center, plus four months at a youth wilderness camp run by a different operator.

    "Never in a million years did I think that I would actually get sent away. I was completely destroyed," said Kruger, who later dropped out of school. He said he wants to get his record expunged, earn his high school equivalency diploma and go to college.

    "I got a raw deal, and yeah, it's not fair," he said, "but now it's 100 times bigger than me."




    THIS IS WHY...And I'm a god damn Libertarian!, and even I don't agree with privatizing prisons.
    im rem a doc on TV about this awhile back, shocking stuff

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    Haters gonna hate.

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    some of the numbers that are being shown are twisted. because of some states what rights, needs and what the local inmates do and don't allow, numbers can be twisted to show different things

    state prison systems not county jails are expensive to run and in no ways pull a profit. the reason numbers can be turned around is because private prisons claim they can hold an inmate for $43 a day, where the closest state camp is $47 a day. many running around $63-$67 per inmate.... BUT the medical and other needs that private prisons cut out to be able to claim that $43 a day per inmate number has to be made up by the state and/or some inmates are banned from being in a private camp. many private facilities actually make tight rules about what type of inmate they will even allow to stay there and all others go to the state.

    people think going private will save money, but what they leave out is private prisons will not pay for a lot of medical needs, that by law the state still has to offer. so in turn the only money the state saves is in retirement plans and issues related to inmate lawsuits which happen all the time and for very stupid reasons.

    A state corrections officer starts out between 30K-42K. when you see numbers high like 100K its either in an area where they allow over time and officers work usually 120hrs a pay period (2wks). which in turn means they work their ass off and miss their family to make that money.

    county corrections do usually pay more, mostly because they can cut their costs for a lot of small things and make officers pay for their own stuff to include insurance.

    basically the number game sounds great in election speeches, but the truth is until we address the issue of helping people out that become criminals get their lives back together so they stop doing crime, then the money needing to be put into the system will always need to be more and more.

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    If you like your job, good. If you don't like it find somthing else to do. If you complain someone is getting more than you and their job is easy, go do it. If you're whinging someone gets paid more than you, and you think you're better than them because you chose to do something "educational" STFU!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarry206 View Post
    some of the numbers that are being shown are twisted. because of some states what rights, needs and what the local inmates do and don't allow, numbers can be twisted to show different things

    state prison systems not county jails are expensive to run and in no ways pull a profit. the reason numbers can be turned around is because private prisons claim they can hold an inmate for $43 a day, where the closest state camp is $47 a day. many running around $63-$67 per inmate.... BUT the medical and other needs that private prisons cut out to be able to claim that $43 a day per inmate number has to be made up by the state and/or some inmates are banned from being in a private camp. many private facilities actually make tight rules about what type of inmate they will even allow to stay there and all others go to the state.

    people think going private will save money, but what they leave out is private prisons will not pay for a lot of medical needs, that by law the state still has to offer. so in turn the only money the state saves is in retirement plans and issues related to inmate lawsuits which happen all the time and for very stupid reasons.

    A state corrections officer starts out between 30K-42K. when you see numbers high like 100K its either in an area where they allow over time and officers work usually 120hrs a pay period (2wks). which in turn means they work their ass off and miss their family to make that money.

    county corrections do usually pay more, mostly because they can cut their costs for a lot of small things and make officers pay for their own stuff to include insurance.

    basically the number game sounds great in election speeches, but the truth is until we address the issue of helping people out that become criminals get their lives back together so they stop doing crime, then the money needing to be put into the system will always need to be more and more.
    1.) We have people whose sole purpose it is to enact laws. The Dept of Justice has stated that they cannot count the number of laws on the books. We have a society today, where almost any person in this country can unknowingly break a law. You can goto prison for importing a fish, that you didnt even know was illegal to import. The business of incarceration is BIG business, we have 5% of the worlds population, yet 25% (or 1/4) of the worlds prison population. This is appalling for alledgedly the most "free" country in the world.

    2.) The recidvisim rate is so high in our country for several reasons. One of which is the fact that only 2 states in the country have "Rehabilitation" in their departments name. The rest are simply focused on punishment. In addition, we imprison non-violent offenders to draconian sentences. Non-violent drug offenders make up 50% of our prison population. This is a crime whereby we are condemning people whos crime was choosing to put a substance into their own body, or to sell a substance the government has prohibited. We need to get off of our high horse, especially on this board, and not try to state our 'drug' is better or more moral than any other drugs. Portugal's decriminalization of ALL drugs has led to lower crime rates, and lower rates of addiction ACROSS THE BOARD!

    3.) Another contributing factor to our recidivism rate is the stigma that we attach to past offenders. Even after a person has paid their debt to society, we keep them right restricted, they often cannot vote, cannot own firearms, and cannot do a number of other things. Constitutionally, if you are released from prison and have served the entirety of your sentence, ALL of your rights should be FULLY restored upon release. If the state still wishes to restrict some of your rights, you should not be released from prison at all. If you are not paroled, but have served the entirety of your sentence, ALL rights should be fully restored, INCLUDING the RIGHT to own a firearm. A felony conviction, even after a person has served their time, condemns that person to working minimum wage jobs that they often, and most likely, cannot even support themselves on. This is particularly disturbing and a problem for non-violent drug offenders who were involved in selling drugs, or for other criminals involved in LUCRATIVE illegal activities. We are INCENTIVIZING them to RETURN to their life of crime by essentially BRANDING them as a felon for LIFE. Should we really expect a different outcome? Many people and families can hardly sustain themselves on middle class incomes let alone minimum wage. If we did not designate people in this way, they would be able to find meaningful employment that would possibly prevent them from returning to a life of crime. How can we expect people who were previously able to make their entire years salary in a few weeks. Our system is BROKEN.

    4.) We have a system that encourages plea bargaining. Our extremely DRACONIAN sentences provides a HUGE incentive for INNOCENT PEOPLE to plead guilty. They are often faced with possibilities such as taking their case to trial and risking 40-50 years in prison, or taking a plea bargain for 24-36 months, yet carry the mark of a felon for the rest of their lives, ruining their lives. If you cannot afford a $20-30,000 retainer for a good lawyer, who has resources like paralegals, private investigators(to dig up dirt on your accusers, etc), then you are left with a public defender. A public defender usually has such an immensely large case load that they can hardly familiarize themselves with your case, and they are often motivated to plea bargain and move you through the system as fast as possible. In addition, if you require expert witness testimony, you are looking at anywhere from $200-$700 PER HOUR to have an expert testify in your favor. The state has an unlimited amount of resources and has expert witnesses on their payrole. If you want to COUNTER what the states expert witness alledges, you must provide your own expert in the field, and foot the bill for those experts. If you want an independent lab to test forensic evidence in addition to the states lab, you must foot the bill for that as well. The cost for an INNOCENT person to defend themselves against an over zealous prosecutor can EASILY BANKRUPT a person even if they are INNOCENT. In our system, INNOCENT people can have their lives ruined simply by being accused, and having to go through a lengthy and EXPENSIVE trial.

    I'm not going to keep going. I could write an entire dissertation on the American criminal justice system and its many inequities, and how we have institutionalized recidivism, we set up our inmates for failure before they are even released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by auslifta View Post
    If you like your job, good. If you don't like it find somthing else to do. If you complain someone is getting more than you and their job is easy, go do it. If you're whinging someone gets paid more than you, and you think you're better than them because you chose to do something "educational" STFU!
    Agree.

  34. #34
    Uncle$ is offline Junior Member
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    I work in corrections. County jail to be specific. DOC starts off roughly 10-12 bux an hour more however due to still be enlisted in the army even though irr they seemed to have a problem with that. Minus the pay difference a jail is a bit different of an environment, I'm definitely no 6 figure salary that's for sure! Though I do plan on going to patrol here in a couple years so it works out!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    1.) We have people whose sole purpose it is to enact laws. The Dept of Justice has stated that they cannot count the number of laws on the books. We have a society today, where almost any person in this country can unknowingly break a law. You can goto prison for importing a fish, that you didnt even know was illegal to import. The business of incarceration is BIG business, we have 5% of the worlds population, yet 25% (or 1/4) of the worlds prison population. This is appalling for alledgedly the most "free" country in the world.

    2.) The recidvisim rate is so high in our country for several reasons. One of which is the fact that only 2 states in the country have "Rehabilitation" in their departments name. The rest are simply focused on punishment. In addition, we imprison non-violent offenders to draconian sentences. Non-violent drug offenders make up 50% of our prison population. This is a crime whereby we are condemning people whos crime was choosing to put a substance into their own body, or to sell a substance the government has prohibited. We need to get off of our high horse, especially on this board, and not try to state our 'drug' is better or more moral than any other drugs. Portugal's decriminalization of ALL drugs has led to lower crime rates, and lower rates of addiction ACROSS THE BOARD!

    3.) Another contributing factor to our recidivism rate is the stigma that we attach to past offenders. Even after a person has paid their debt to society, we keep them right restricted, they often cannot vote, cannot own firearms, and cannot do a number of other things. Constitutionally, if you are released from prison and have served the entirety of your sentence, ALL of your rights should be FULLY restored upon release. If the state still wishes to restrict some of your rights, you should not be released from prison at all. If you are not paroled, but have served the entirety of your sentence, ALL rights should be fully restored, INCLUDING the RIGHT to own a firearm. A felony conviction, even after a person has served their time, condemns that person to working minimum wage jobs that they often, and most likely, cannot even support themselves on. This is particularly disturbing and a problem for non-violent drug offenders who were involved in selling drugs, or for other criminals involved in LUCRATIVE illegal activities. We are INCENTIVIZING them to RETURN to their life of crime by essentially BRANDING them as a felon for LIFE. Should we really expect a different outcome? Many people and families can hardly sustain themselves on middle class incomes let alone minimum wage. If we did not designate people in this way, they would be able to find meaningful employment that would possibly prevent them from returning to a life of crime. How can we expect people who were previously able to make their entire years salary in a few weeks. Our system is BROKEN.

    4.) We have a system that encourages plea bargaining. Our extremely DRACONIAN sentences provides a HUGE incentive for INNOCENT PEOPLE to plead guilty. They are often faced with possibilities such as taking their case to trial and risking 40-50 years in prison, or taking a plea bargain for 24-36 months, yet carry the mark of a felon for the rest of their lives, ruining their lives. If you cannot afford a $20-30,000 retainer for a good lawyer, who has resources like paralegals, private investigators(to dig up dirt on your accusers, etc), then you are left with a public defender. A public defender usually has such an immensely large case load that they can hardly familiarize themselves with your case, and they are often motivated to plea bargain and move you through the system as fast as possible. In addition, if you require expert witness testimony, you are looking at anywhere from $200-$700 PER HOUR to have an expert testify in your favor. The state has an unlimited amount of resources and has expert witnesses on their payrole. If you want to COUNTER what the states expert witness alledges, you must provide your own expert in the field, and foot the bill for those experts. If you want an independent lab to test forensic evidence in addition to the states lab, you must foot the bill for that as well. The cost for an INNOCENT person to defend themselves against an over zealous prosecutor can EASILY BANKRUPT a person even if they are INNOCENT. In our system, INNOCENT people can have their lives ruined simply by being accused, and having to go through a lengthy and EXPENSIVE trial.

    I'm not going to keep going. I could write an entire dissertation on the American criminal justice system and its many inequities, and how we have institutionalized recidivism, we set up our inmates for failure before they are even released.
    I actually agree with every point you made.. sadly if you knew the rest of the ways they screwed people it would sickin you.. I worked in State corrections for 6 years. and there really is no hope for 90% of inmates or people even accused of a crime much less convicted.

  36. #36
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    It sounds like there is a lot of truth to both sides. Still it's not a job I would want to do for 100k a year but yes as most of anything run by the state/government it's messed up on many levels. It's not the prison guards who are coming out ahead, again it's the people WAY up the chain of command who are making money by manipulating peoples lives.

  37. #37
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    Pelican Bay in Northern California is one of the places where the guards make alot of money. As lovbyts mentioned I would not do that job for 100k either. I have talked to a few of them and they do get inmates throwing piss and shit on them as well as having a target in their back anytime they are on the clock. I would be more concerned about the inmates getting a free education (if they choose) and free medical than the amount a guard makes. And yes they do have the nicest houses in Crescent City and they deserve it.

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    I am just going to say that when I was running a muck causing trouble of course I hated cops and all that shit. Going to jail and all that jazz I have seen my far share of douchebag guards. I have had girlfriends get beat by guards multiple multiple times. I will say though that all it takes is one ****er with aids to spit on a guard or get blood on a gaurd and he has to ask him self if he is infected. Imagine having a fight with an imate who is postive for h.i.v. or aids and getting cut and blood getting every where. Even if you get tested you may not test positive for up to 6 months or so...Could you imagine going home and trying to live a normal life with that type of anxiety. Hugging your kids ****ing your wife worried about maybe giving them something...Just something to think about. I think ya it is ridiculous but hey its prob one of the most worse ****en jobs I could think of.

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    ^^^All are very valid points.. Maybe one day America will realize that it can't afford to keep these non violent drug offenders in jail.

    put it this way.. would you really care if there were two drug users on the street if it meant that your child has an extra teacher in the class room or your streets get an extra officer on them.. i mean it costs the same to have a cop on the streets as it does to have 4 junkies in prison..
    Last edited by MACHINE5150; 05-09-2011 at 07:50 PM.

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    Honestly just legalize drugs end of problem.

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