Drinking Too Much Water? (article)

[Terinox]

Need for 8 glasses of water a myth: nutrition experts
Last Updated Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:11


VANCOUVER - We may not need to drink eight glasses of water a day after all, Canadian and American experts say.

Since the end of the Second World War, many people assumed they should drink at least eight glasses or two litres of water per day to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Countless weight loss and fitness magazines have reinforced the idea.

Scientists are rethinking whether we need eight glasses of water a day

University of British Columbia nutrition Prof. Susan Barr is part of a joint Canadian and American team of doctors and nutritionists who are looking at how much water people actually need.
Barr said they couldn't find any scientific evidence to support the eight to 10 glass recommendation.

The confusion may have arisen because a typical adult's energy requirements call for two to three litres of fluid – but it doesn't all have to be in the form of glasses of water. All foods and non-alcoholic drinks count toward the goal.

For example, Barr said:

broccoli is about 90 per cent water
bread is about 35 per cent water
meat, fish and poultry contain 50 to 60 per cent water
As for drinking water to lose weight, Barr said, "If you drink a lot of water, right at the moment you will feel full. But half an hour later, your stomach will be empty and you'll be hungry."
So far, the researchers say it seems most North Americans are getting the necessary amount of water from their diet.

There have been cases of people drinking too much water. Confusion, headache and cramps are symptoms of drinking too much water. A few deaths have been linked to excessive water intake while taking the party drug, ecstasy.

On the other hand, people who are exercising and sweating more than normal need to replenish the vital liquid to avoid dehydration.

Recommendations on exactly how many glasses people should try to drink are expected in the fall.
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Written by CBC News Online staff

[BigGreen]

Typical of a Canadian scholar to piggyback on an American's findings: (kidding of course, but this adds to your article).

Dartmouth Professor Finds No Scientific Evidence for '8 x 8'

August 8, 2002. It has become accepted wisdom: "Drink at least eight glasses of water a day!" Not necessarily, says a DMS physician Heinz Valtin, MD. The universal advice that has made guzzling water a national pastime is more urban myth than medical dogma and appears to lack scientific proof, he found.

In an invited review published online by the American Journal of Physiology August 8, Valtin, professor emeritus of physiology at Dartmouth Medical School, reports no supporting evidence to back this popular counsel, commonly known as "8 x 8" (for eight, eight-ounce glasses). The review will also appear in a later issue of the journal.

Valtin, a kidney specialist and author of two widely used textbooks on the kidney and water balance, sought to find the origin of this dictum and to examine the scientific evidence, if any, that might support it. He observes that we see the exhortation everywhere: from writers, nutritionists, even physicians. Valtin doubts its validity. Indeed, he finds it, "difficult to believe that evolution left us with a chronic water deficit that needs to be compensated by forcing a high fluid intake."

The 8 x 8 rule is slavishly followed. Everywhere, people carry bottles of water, constantly sipping from them; it is acceptable to drink water anywhere, anytime. A pamphlet distributed at one southern California university even counsels its students to "carry a water bottle with you. Drink often while sitting in class..."

How did the obsession start? Is there any scientific evidence that supports the recommendation? Does the habit promote good health? Might it be harmful?

Valtin thinks the notion may have started when the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Research Council recommended approximately "1 milliliter of water for each calorie of food," which would amount to roughly two to two-and-a-half quarts per day (60 to 80 ounces). Although in its next sentence, the Board stated "most of this quantity is contained in prepared foods," that last sentence may have been missed, so that the recommendation was erroneously interpreted as how much water one should drink each day.

He found no scientific studies in support of 8 x 8. Rather, surveys of fluid intake on healthy adults of both genders, published as peer-reviewed documents, strongly suggest that such large amounts are not needed. His conclusion is supported by published studies showing that caffeinated drinks, such as most coffee, tea and soft drinks, may indeed be counted toward the daily total. He also points to the large body of published experiments that attest to the capability of the human body for maintaining proper water balance.

Valtin emphasizes that his conclusion is limited to healthy adults in a temperate climate leading a largely sedentary existence - precisely, he points out, the population and conditions that the "at least" in 8 x 8 refers to. At the same time, he stresses that large intakes of fluid, equal to and greater than 8 x 8, are advisable for the treatment or prevention of some diseases, such as kidney stones, as well as under special circumstances, such as strenuous physical activity, long airplane flights or hot weather. But barring those exceptions, he concludes that we are currently drinking enough and possibly even more than enough.

Despite the dearth of compelling evidence, then, What's the harm? "The fact is that, potentially, there is harm even in water," explains Valtin. Even modest increases in fluid intake can result in "water intoxication" if one's kidneys are unable to excrete enough water (urine). Such instances are not unheard of, and they have led to mental confusion and even death in athletes, in teenagers after ingesting the drug Ecstasy, and in ordinary patients.

And he lists other disadvantages of a high water intake: (a) possible exposure to pollutants, especially if sustained over many years; (b) frequent urination, which can be both inconvenient and embarrassing; (c) expense, for those who satisfy the 8 x 8 requirements with bottled water; and (d) feelings of guilt for not achieving 8 x 8. Other claims discredited by scientific evidence that Valtin discusses include:

Thirst Is Too Late. It is often stated that by the time people are thirsty, they are already dehydrated. On the contrary, thirst begins when the concentration of blood (an accurate indicator of our state of hydration) has risen by less than two percent, whereas most experts would define dehydration as beginning when that concentration has risen by at least five percent.
Dark Urine Means Dehydration. At normal urinary volume and color, the concentration of the blood is within the normal range and nowhere near the values that are seen in meaningful dehydration. Therefore, the warning that dark urine reflects dehydration is alarmist and false in most instances.
Is there scientific documentation that we do not need to drink "8 x 8"? There is highly suggestive evidence, says Valtin. First is the voluminous scientific literature on the efficacy of the osmoregulatory system that maintains water balance through the antidiuretic hormone and thirst. Second, published surveys document that the mean daily fluid intake of thousands of presumably healthy humans is less than the roughly two quarts prescribed by 8 x 8. Valtin argues that, in view of this evidence, the burden of proof that everyone needs 8 x 8 should fall on those who persist in advocating the high fluid intake without, apparently, citing any scientific support.

Finally, strong evidence now indicates that not all of the prescribed fluid need be in the form of water. Careful peer-reviewed experiments have shown that caffeinated drinks should indeed count toward the daily fluid intake in the vast majority of persons. To a lesser extent, the same probably can be said for dilute alcoholic beverages, such as beer, if taken in moderation.

"Thus, I have found no scientific proof that absolutely every person must 'drink at least eight glasses of water a day'," says Valtin. While there is some evidence that the risk of certain diseases can be lowered by high water intake, the quantities needed for this beneficial effect may be less than 8 x 8, and the recommendation can be limited to those particularly susceptible to the diseases in question.

[Terinox]

Typical! You just had to go and add didn't you? Taking away from us Canadians! This just proves how the U.S. want it all!!!



Just fuckin around bro

But seriously, good article. They make some good points there. However, I'm guessing of course, us body builders, steroid users should get more then the average and all that

[mammoth]

I drink enough water to drown Rosie O'Donnel in a baby pool! When I switched to drinking just water it took me a long time to get used to it. It has been about a year since I have consumed a beverage other water. I love it! Never can get enough!

[painintheazz]

I noticed my strenght and fat loss went way up when I started getting over 64oz a day. My best friend used to never drink water then he started to drink a gallon a day and his bench went up 20lb in one week, naturally, I am not kidding.

Pain

[MDMA]

That part that too much water can give muscle cramps hit a nerve...

I just got off cycle, so Im trying to cut down a bit. Taking Clen/Ripped Fuel/Lots of water. LOTS of water actually, prolly close to 1.5-2 gallons a day whereas before I might have drank maybe .5 gallon a day. None the less, I also just recently started getting cramps everywhere and all the time too, I thought it might be from the change in diet or clen, but now Im thinking it's my water intake.

Doent bother me tho, good trade if you ask me. Im losing close to a pound a fat a day doing what Im doing right now.. so a couple cramps can kiss my ass.

[Terinox]

Originally posted by MDMA
That part that too much water can give muscle cramps hit a nerve...

I just got off cycle, so Im trying to cut down a bit. Taking Clen/Ripped Fuel/Lots of water. LOTS of water actually, prolly close to 1.5-2 gallons a day whereas before I might have drank maybe .5 gallon a day. None the less, I also just recently started getting cramps everywhere and all the time too, I thought it might be from the change in diet or clen, but now Im thinking it's my water intake.

Doent bother me tho, good trade if you ask me. Im losing close to a pound a fat a day doing what Im doing right now.. so a couple cramps can kiss my ass.

Losing a pound of fat a day? Damn, what are you doing?

[MDMA]

Dude, everything I can.

As far as supps go, Im taking 150mg Clen a day and about 6 tabs of Ripped fuel. Like I said, 1.5-2 gallons of water as well. Getting less than 30 carbs a day.

Basically, my day goes like this:

Get up at 9:00, taking 50mg Clen, Drink a liter of water, Pop about 4 Amino Acid tabs, Chug aprox. 35grams Protien then go for a nice 20-30min jog, up the hill, down the hill, up the hill and back down.

Go home, chug another 35 grams of protien and eat a can of tuna while my eggs cook. Have a glass of OJ with my eggs, thats pretty much my only carbs for the day.

Throughout the day I continue to chug water, pop a can of tuna when Im hungry or grub on some pre-cooked chicken/beef.

At noon I usually hit the gym for my muscle training, doing the 8 sets of 8 right now. Basically pick 3 exercises, and do 8 sets of 8 at each station, 10-15 sec rests in between. Finish off my time @ the gym with about 10 minutes of cardo (pussy I know, but Im tired by then anyways)

Protien/Salad for dinner... Amino acids, clen, protien before bed... same thing next day.

Went from about 210-212 to 206-208 in 3 days.

[MDMA]

Prolly throw my body in ketosis here in the next couple of days if I keep this up. I might have a carb day tomarrow, dont wanna go in keto.

[Terinox]

Very interesting bro! Doing a great job so far! I'll keep all that in mind when I hit my cutting phase soon

[painintheazz]

Originally posted by MDMA
Prolly throw my body in ketosis here in the next couple of days if I keep this up. I might have a carb day tomarrow, dont wanna go in keto.

Why don't you want to go into Keto??

Pain

[MDMA]

Personal pref. Threw my body it keto about 3 months ago and hated the way it made me feel. Just pissed on a keto stick after I posted that cuz I was curious, and Im at about 25 of 150. Zero being not in keto, 150 being full blown keto, so I'll prolly carb up a little tomarrow.

[Xtrastrength]

MDMA, let me get this str8 becuase I'm gonna be using clen with my clomid in a few weeks: You take clen before bed? Maybe I misunderstood you, but I thought that would keep you awake? Thanks, X

[MDMA]

Hmm... doesnt do anything like that to me. I wake up sweating from time to time tho.

[painintheazz]

That is cool, I have hit Keto a few times, never done the keto diet just low carbs and I have felt really flat when I hit it too, I usually carb up the next day. The fat lose is nice though. As for clen, I can sleep on it but I do wake up sweating a little, could be the T3 too though.

Pain

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by Terinox
Typical! You just had to go and add didn't you? Taking away from us Canadians! This just proves how the U.S. want it all!!!



Just fuckin around bro

But seriously, good article. They make some good points there. However, I'm guessing of course, us body builders, steroid users should get more then the average and all that

Hey, look at the dates....if anyone "took" anything, I'd say some desperate canadian prof hoping to get tenure simply did a book report, for lack of a more appropriate term, on a fine, upstanding piece of research from one of American's finest institutes of higher learning (i'm a little biased )

Just screwin around here too bro....thought it might add a bit to it is all. The only thing I can say, speaking personally, is that if I'm not up near a gallon a day (and I don't know of a better way to term this, so here goes) my brain feels dehydrated and brittle....i always think of it as a sponge when that happens.