hard to read chick, woman advice (long)

[Rockin Z28]

i had been out of the dating game for about 7 months and finally jumped back into the game. I met this woman that seemed awesome on plenty of fish, we talked for about a week before meeting she seemed great, physically very appealing, she served in the navy and was a very badass chick. Anyways so we finally meet for a date and it seemd like we really hit it off, i did however tell her that i juiced and she seemed to have a problem with that but it didnt prevent us from further hanging out. So we hung out a few more times and i come to find out she still lived with her ex (who broke up with her)..she went on to tell me she cried when he moved out but that she was over him and it wouldnt be a problem. She seemed to kind of flake out on plans a lot but she said she needed girls time, so i tried to be understanding. She put off sex for a little while because she said she didn't want me to be the reound guy and wanted something genuine. Finally we did have sex, and unfortunately it was horrible (i was the drunkest i had been in years) and to be honest i gave her basically the limp treatment. She went on to tell me how much she disliked my skin due to the steroids (it has cleared up a lot lately though). anyways..she started to make good friends with my female roomate and they staretd to hang out all the time (although i would never be invited). she got drunk one night and told my roomate that my dick was ****ed up from steroids and that i couldnt get hard..and she was supposed to meet her ex for dinner. We all know when your on test...your dick works better then it ever has..the skin i can understand but, the only reason i couldnt perform is because i was extremely extremely intoxicated. So we ended up hanging out a few more times and she told me she wasnt over her ex completely, shes strongly against my steroid usage, and i never showed i cared about her and my ego was too big. She flaked out on a few more plans so i stopped responding to her random texts. I saw her at the gym the other day and texted her to relieve some of the awkwardness and she ripped into me, saying stop thinking your buff, i dont care if you found out i was lying etc etc. Long story short she called me a few days later and we talked and i told her i dont hate her or anything and we could be friends or do whatever..she agreed to go have a drink with me but again, she never showed. Considering i actually have to see this woman on a fairly regular basis how should i go about handling this situation, what is she actually thinking, and what should i do moving forward?

[Twist]

1. never tell a random girl that you barely know/met on the internet that you use gear (which is illegal and I can't believe I have to write this)
2. Stop making any effort to get her back
3. put the ball in her court and say basically if she wants to see you then she will put in the effort and you should refuse to make plans with her. If she wants to meet you she should have to call you right then and there and hopefully your schedule matches up and she can drive to see you. DO NOT INVEST ANYTHING else (time, money, posts etc) on this girl
4. Find someone else because she is screwed up.

I know you want to redeem yourself in the sheets but just **** your roommate instead. Lots less issues (hopefully).

[lovbyts]

Agreed with above. Stop acting like you care and you have time for her anytime. Act like you have NO or little time for her, let her chase you. Dont invite her anywhere and use her as a booty call, that's what she really wants. fvck her and show her how good it works on test. DONT drink first. Stop drinking while on cycle. Stop trying to be friends also. You have guys to be friends with and having woman as friends will only cause problems. You dont need to go looking for girls to be friends with.

You dont need to be an asshole per say but you got to learn not to be such a push over, nice guy. Women dont like they and they will walk/run away from you. They like a guy who is sure of himself and has balls. If some random chick said she didnt like my skin for whatever reason I would say well I'm not some Metro Sexual who spends 1hr every morning putting lotion on and if that's what she is looking for then why not go all the way and find a chick to hook up with? Then say excuse me while I go find a real woman to have a conversation with, not a closet lesbo.

[Twist]

I would not piss off a loud mouth chick (with current issues) who goes to my gym and knows I use gear and hangs out with my friends. Not unless I am prepared to deal with her telling everyone and probably making shit up along the way. I would rather just stay neutral on the matters and let her come or go.

[Rockin Z28]

i like twist's reply better..trying not to piss her off/friends seems ideal..especially with the ammunition she has and her habit of talking

[lovbyts]

Well I didnt say anything about pissing her off but you will also soon learn, you dont have to do ANYTHING to piss a woman off most of the trime and sometimes you may never know what it was or what you said/did that set her off. lol

[gixxerboy1]

I dont know whats hard to read about her. She has no interest in you. Yet you keep trying so that is pissing her off. You screwed up in bed, you had bad skin,she doesnt like that you juice and she stood you up. Whats hard to read?

Ignore her. if she says hi say hi back. Find another girl cause you blew it with this one.

[D7M]

I dont know whats hard to read about her. She has no interest in you. Yet you keep trying so that is pissing her off. You screwed up in bed, you had bad skin,she doesnt like that you juice and she stood you up. Whats hard to read?

Ignore her. if she says hi say hi back. Find another girl cause you blew it with this one.

lol. Exactly.

It's called POF for a reason. Go get another one and learn from your mistakes.

[Kawigirl]

i had been out of the dating game for about 7 months and finally jumped back into the game. I met this woman that seemed awesome on plenty of fish, we talked for about a week before meeting she seemed great, physically very appealing, she served in the navy and was a very badass chick. Anyways so we finally meet for a date and it seemd like we really hit it off, i did however tell her that i juiced and she seemed to have a problem with that but it didnt prevent us from further hanging out. So we hung out a few more times and i come to find out she still lived with her ex (who broke up with her)..she went on to tell me she cried when he moved out but that she was over him and it wouldnt be a problem. She seemed to kind of flake out on plans a lot but she said she needed girls time, so i tried to be understanding. She put off sex for a little while because she said she didn't want me to be the reound guy and wanted something genuine. Finally we did have sex, and unfortunately it was horrible (i was the drunkest i had been in years) and to be honest i gave her basically the limp treatment. She went on to tell me how much she disliked my skin due to the steroids (it has cleared up a lot lately though). anyways..she started to make good friends with my female roomate and they staretd to hang out all the time (although i would never be invited). she got drunk one night and told my roomate that my dick was ****ed up from steroids and that i couldnt get hard..and she was supposed to meet her ex for dinner. We all know when your on test...your dick works better then it ever has..the skin i can understand but, the only reason i couldnt perform is because i was extremely extremely intoxicated. So we ended up hanging out a few more times and she told me she wasnt over her ex completely, shes strongly against my steroid usage, and i never showed i cared about her and my ego was too big. She flaked out on a few more plans so i stopped responding to her random texts. I saw her at the gym the other day and texted her to relieve some of the awkwardness and she ripped into me, saying stop thinking your buff, i dont care if you found out i was lying etc etc. Long story short she called me a few days later and we talked and i told her i dont hate her or anything and we could be friends or do whatever..she agreed to go have a drink with me but again, she never showed. Considering i actually have to see this woman on a fairly regular basis how should i go about handling this situation, what is she actually thinking, and what should i do moving forward?

#1) Her still living with ex (even though not together ...or so she said) should of been your RED flag to get away...FAST!
#2) If she was really into you; she would of wanted to be with you mostly...not her girls. Not really into you (RED flag again)
#3) She put off sex with you cause she wasn't sure how into you she was. From my perspective. If I'm dating a dude that I find hot...I'm wanting him...NOW!
#4) ANOTHER RED flag...wtf. Why would you wanna date a girl who has no loyalty and can't keep her mouth shut regarding personal issues with you!? And, with your room mate outta all things!!! This girl has no integrity.
#5) And...than you STILL give her the time of day....this girl doesn't deserve respect as she has NONE for you!

She's not hard to read...quit simple actually...given my answers.

Dude...she's walking all over you; and the worst part is...your letting her!!!!

But for the record..YOU didn't blow it...SHE did with her disregard. But, now...your actions will say more. WALK away...integrity in tact and self respect in tow! Leave her be...don't text...don't call....cut her out and forget! AND don't even respond if she tries to contact you! That should be satisfying enough knowing she's pissed your now not responding to her immature behavior.

[jtuner77]

I agree with Twist. Lastly NEVER ever tell a girl you have ****ed that you can just be friends. Worst thing to say ever, by that statement alone you possibly put yourself out of anything that could happen down the road as a girl will use a guy in all ways except sexually when you throw that term out there PLUS subconciously you just told her you have no respect for yourself as you would settle for being friends. Never go backwards with a girl. Better to walk away then in her eyes BEG to be her "friend"

[JohnnyVegas]

What Twist and Kawi said. Do that.

If you are dating, look for someone compatible. This girl? Not compatible. It doesn't mean she is bad, it just means that you will break up again eventually (not that you were ever really together)...better to break up now than after living together, or worse after marriage. Or super worse, after having a child.

[Rockin Z28]

the bitter truth strings a bit..but i guess it happens to everyone lol. I'm going to just do my own thing and if the opportunity to have sex with her happens to occur in the future then i can make a decision from there

[calgarian]

the bitter truth strings a bit..but i guess it happens to everyone lol. I'm going to just do my own thing and if the opportunity to have sex with her happens to occur in the future then i can make a decision from there

dude seriously whats wrong with you pvssy starved? move the hell on geez....

[Kawigirl]

dude seriously whats wrong with you pvssy starved? move the hell on geez....

I'm going to have to agree with Cal....wouldn't even make time to have a hate fvck with her!!! Doubt she's even worth it...

[Rockin Z28]

i am actually a bit ***** starved at the very moment lol..i burned my 3 in rotation for this chick

[Kawigirl]

i am actually a bit ***** starved at the very moment lol..i burned my 3 in rotation for this chick

meh....if I don't get some soon...I'm sure my vag is gonna fall out.....

[calgarian]

i am actually a bit ***** starved at the very moment lol..i burned my 3 in rotation for this chick

not worth the drama ...thats all I am going to say.....she is and will walk all over you and you will feel like a puppy with your tongue out and all you can do is bark and cant hump.....

[gixxerboy1]

i am actually a bit ***** starved at the very moment lol..i burned my 3 in rotation for this chick

so if you had 3 in rotation and pulled her apparently you can get women. Find a new one.

[stack_it]

It's not hard to get laid if you try. Hell if you jus put yourself in the right place you don't even have to try. Forget about this crazy and find a different one.

[TheBadGuy]

I would respond with one of my long stories but I'm a little distracted atm.

And people have already mentioned the important points. If there is one trait of men that genuinely turns off/scares women away its neediness or acting desperate. They're biologically wired to go after the man who always stays an inch out of reach from them. And that speaking emotionally. Telling her you were on juice was validation seeking behavoir. You were looking for her validation and opinion that it was ok. That was your first insecure move.

Then when a woman goes cold, the last thing you do is turn up the aggression. If a woman takes one step back you take 2. Then focus on generating attraction. Don't ever focus on seducing a woman you haven't first attracted. Otherwise she will resent you greatly for it. The order is attraction > comfort > seduction. Never break the order or she will flake out. A lot of times I don't even have to seduce a woman because I spend so much time building genuine attraction. This is also not done by bragging, its done by anchoring signs of high status into your interaction. Most high status men do this naturally in a way where when they talk, they are slowly "selling" themself in the process. But its not done in an overt way or it will come off cocky.

You can merely tell her a story about a time some guy stalking your ex and how you and your friends saw the guy at a bar one night and scared him half to death. No nothing violent but when you tell stories to people, or saying anything, you are ALWAYS transferring symbols of social status to that person. Women are very intuitive and feel this shit immediately. High status men simply don't beg, apologize, or act desperate in any way.

At this point your best choice would be to next her. Start with a clean slate and build attraction the proper way. If you need help on attraction techniques check the venusian arts handbook. Or check the m3 model specifically. Although I say "techniques" these are things naturals do in the real world and this has all been backwards engineered from natural behavoir of successful men.
Some basic rules I follow.

Never ask a woman if you are her type.
Never compliment a woman on her looks on the first date. Women value compliments on idiosyncratic behaviors that most men would not notice. And what really gets them going is when you take something about them that most people might consider bad, and reframe it as a compliment. Like "I noticed when I first met you that you were standoffish and somewhat of a bitch... but eventually I realized that you just do that to make people earn your trust, and thats pretty cool of you". Thats how you compliment them. And don't do it too much. It should be seasoned in very seldom throughout the interaction and at points where she is showing obvious signs of interest in you.
Don't get into the habit of buying things for them/paying for the olives in their drink. Or soon they make like the olives in their drink more than you.
Don't get in the habit of initiating communication with them too much. Let them text you, they are the women, they do the choosing. If they are attracted they WILL contact you.
Keep conversations on the phone short at first. No need to go into tirades about your past or how you were treated in highschool. Always leave an element of mystery for their imagination to fill the gaps.
I usually limit conversations to 5 minutes, then I get off the phone with them immediately. Not just for the reasons I mentioned but you are more likely to say
something stupid to a woman and 90% of guys if they just knew when to keep their mouths shut could have likely got laid. So many men talk too much or assume the role of investigator on first date. Don't do that. Don't even ask any personal questions. Tease her and get her to feel comfortable so she opens up on her own. Don't try prying details from them ever, they should be doing that to you.

In most situations like I said men fvck things up more for what they say then what they don't say. So if you're not sure what to say, best off to just keep your mouth shut. A women values a secure humble man who is ultra comfortable in his own skin. Don't fidget with forks or tap them on the table, don't wiggle your legs so the table shakes, be calm composed and have a strong presence. Presence comes from deliberate comfortable actions and posture. Don't be afraid to make eye contact but make sure to break it occassionally as she talks. If she gets on any topics that involve her showing interest or attraction for you change the topic immediately. It creates tension and although it makes them mad that tension will add to the sexual tension overall. Tension is great to maintain on a first date you just need to be calibrated about how you do it.
Test her, make her qualify to you, make her prove she's worthy. But don't forget she is a person too and you need to do the same things to her. But as a man theres a certain covert or classy way to go about it like I said. Most of all when people tell you to "just be yourself" they are essentially telling you to keep doing what you use to do so you keep getting what you use to got. If if the "real you" never gets laid, the last thing you wanna do is "just be yourself". Don't be afraid to reach outside you area of comfort or try faking it till you make it. Anything in life that we are not skilled at we always must start off faking it to some degree untill we make it. Then once we make it we adopt that new trait into our personality and it becomes a part of our new and evolved selves.

Most of all just be a man. No whining, complaining, bitching, no needy behavoir or talk about all the problems in your life. You want to maintain a frame of everything is alright. Be playful and tease them. Women love that shit. And most of all stop acting desperate, women hate that shit.

G/luck

[Rockin Z28]

I would respond with one of my long stories but I'm a little distracted atm.

And people have already mentioned the important points. If there is one trait of men that genuinely turns off/scares women away its neediness or acting desperate. They're biologically wired to go after the man who always stays an inch out of reach from them. And that speaking emotionally. Telling her you were on juice was validation seeking behavoir. You were looking for her validation and opinion that it was ok. That was your first insecure move.

Then when a woman goes cold, the last thing you do is turn up the aggression. If a woman takes one step back you take 2. Then focus on generating attraction. Don't ever focus on seducing a woman you haven't first attracted. Otherwise she will resent you greatly for it. The order is attraction > comfort > seduction. Never break the order or she will flake out. A lot of times I don't even have to seduce a woman because I spend so much time building genuine attraction. This is also not done by bragging, its done by anchoring signs of high status into your interaction. Most high status men do this naturally in a way where when they talk, they are slowly "selling" themself in the process. But its not done in an overt way or it will come off cocky.

You can merely tell her a story about a time some guy stalking your ex and how you and your friends saw the guy at a bar one night and scared him half to death. No nothing violent but when you tell stories to people, or saying anything, you are ALWAYS transferring symbols of social status to that person. Women are very intuitive and feel this shit immediately. High status men simply don't beg, apologize, or act desperate in any way.

At this point your best choice would be to next her. Start with a clean slate and build attraction the proper way. If you need help on attraction techniques check the venusian arts handbook. Or check the m3 model specifically. Although I say "techniques" these are things naturals do in the real world and this has all been backwards engineered from natural behavoir of successful men.
Some basic rules I follow.

Never ask a woman if you are her type.
Never compliment a woman on her looks on the first date. Women value compliments on idiosyncratic behaviors that most men would not notice. And what really gets them going is when you take something about them that most people might consider bad, and reframe it as a compliment. Like "I noticed when I first met you that you were standoffish and somewhat of a bitch... but eventually I realized that you just do that to make people earn your trust, and thats pretty cool of you". Thats how you compliment them. And don't do it too much. It should be seasoned in very seldom throughout the interaction and at points where she is showing obvious signs of interest in you.
Don't get into the habit of buying things for them/paying for the olives in their drink. Or soon they make like the olives in their drink more than you.
Don't get in the habit of initiating communication with them too much. Let them text you, they are the women, they do the choosing. If they are attracted they WILL contact you.
Keep conversations on the phone short at first. No need to go into tirades about your past or how you were treated in highschool. Always leave an element of mystery for their imagination to fill the gaps.
I usually limit conversations to 5 minutes, then I get off the phone with them immediately. Not just for the reasons I mentioned but you are more likely to say
something stupid to a woman and 90% of guys if they just knew when to keep their mouths shut could have likely got laid. So many men talk too much or assume the role of investigator on first date. Don't do that. Don't even ask any personal questions. Tease her and get her to feel comfortable so she opens up on her own. Don't try prying details from them ever, they should be doing that to you.

In most situations like I said men fvck things up more for what they say then what they don't say. So if you're not sure what to say, best off to just keep your mouth shut. A women values a secure humble man who is ultra comfortable in his own skin. Don't fidget with forks or tap them on the table, don't wiggle your legs so the table shakes, be calm composed and have a strong presence. Presence comes from deliberate comfortable actions and posture. Don't be afraid to make eye contact but make sure to break it occassionally as she talks. If she gets on any topics that involve her showing interest or attraction for you change the topic immediately. It creates tension and although it makes them mad that tension will add to the sexual tension overall. Tension is great to maintain on a first date you just need to be calibrated about how you do it.
Test her, make her qualify to you, make her prove she's worthy. But don't forget she is a person too and you need to do the same things to her. But as a man theres a certain covert or classy way to go about it like I said. Most of all when people tell you to "just be yourself" they are essentially telling you to keep doing what you use to do so you keep getting what you use to got. If if the "real you" never gets laid, the last thing you wanna do is "just be yourself". Don't be afraid to reach outside you area of comfort or try faking it till you make it. Anything in life that we are not skilled at we always must start off faking it to some degree untill we make it. Then once we make it we adopt that new trait into our personality and it becomes a part of our new and evolved selves.

Most of all just be a man. No whining, complaining, bitching, no needy behavoir or talk about all the problems in your life. You want to maintain a frame of everything is alright. Be playful and tease them. Women love that shit. And most of all stop acting desperate, women hate that shit.

G/luck

while i appreciate the reply/advice..that is way too much thinking and dating should not be that hard. One of the key things she kept mentioning was i didn't compliment her on the first date or didn't show i cared (probably means initiative, either way..a cop out). From what i gather from other people's posts, it essentially boils down to not being over an ex and just wanting to have fun and unfortunately i wanted more. Lesson learned and i will keep truckin

[songdog]

I agree with Kawi and Cal.And why did you even bother to tell her about your aas? You think she would be impressed? And never get shit faced on a date bro.Bad manners you just met the gal.Then the moment of truth comes and you fail.You messed up on so many levels.Find someone new a learn from your mistakes.That dog wont hunt.Not for you anyway she has got issues with her X.Move on but be polite.

[Rockin Z28]

I agree with Kawi and Cal.And why did you even bother to tell her about your aas? You think she would be impressed? And never get shit faced on a date bro.Bad manners you just met the gal.Then the moment of truth comes and you fail.You messed up on so many levels.Find someone new a learn from your mistakes.That dog wont hunt.Not for you anyway she has got issues with her X.Move on but be polite.

make no mistake she was wasted as well and this wasn't like a first date scenario..also i feel if im going to be dating a woman she has the right to know about aas..whether it works for or against me, i feel obligated

[Kawigirl]

make no mistake she was wasted as well and this wasn't like a first date scenario..also i feel if im going to be dating a woman she has the right to know about aas..whether it works for or against me, i feel obligated

Don't feel bad about telling her....I do think being up front and direct sooner than later is best. If she chooses to walk away cause of that...than....let her. No skin off your a@@. If she stays...than she has accepted you...for all you do.

Whether she was wasted or not as well....sorta sets the entirety of the relationship. Not the best way to start off....and yes...us woman don't like to make a great relationship out of our first time with any dude like that. So...guaranteed; after that first time...her mind was already set.

[calgarian]

make no mistake she was wasted as well and this wasn't like a first date scenario..also i feel if im going to be dating a woman she has the right to know about aas..whether it works for or against me, i feel obligated

dude being honest is good. But untill you are in serious relationship it wouldnt pan out. it sound less honesty and more naive IMO. Plus I m thinking no matter we say you are still going to go and kiss ass with that girl. Here is the reality some girls we never meant to fvck even if you got a chance and couldnt seal the deal you have to realize that the moment has passed and just hanging around thinking that it "could " happen will be childish. Keep her ard if you like stay away from her drama (which I bet is always there) and move on dont just wait for her the more you wait the harder she will play to get. Kawi raised few red flags but you are still presistant. We can advise you but in the end its your life how messy you want because of a pvssy its upto you.

[songdog]

Yeah thats wat I would do.Let every chick I bang know that I juice.The knock on the door is coming.Are you ready

[gixxerboy1]

Don't feel bad about telling her....I do think being up front and direct sooner than later is best. If she chooses to walk away cause of that...than....let her. No skin off your a@@. If she stays...than she has accepted you...for all you do.

I'm sorry but that is just dumb advice. I agree with telling your partner. But you have to remember it is illegal. In the beginning of a relationship you have no idea if its going to work. Why put yourself out there like that? You don't know if you can trust her, and just like this girls she can end up putting it out there for everyone else.

[jtuner77]

while i appreciate the reply/advice..that is way too much thinking and dating should not be that hard. One of the key things she kept mentioning was i didn't compliment her on the first date or didn't show i cared (probably means initiative, either way..a cop out). From what i gather from other people's posts, it essentially boils down to not being over an ex and just wanting to have fun and unfortunately i wanted more. Lesson learned and i will keep truckin

The reason why she was expecting a compliment is because it's a normal thing for men to do this. When you do this you follow the path of every weak man before you. I am sure tons of other men have done it, so in turn YOU DON'T do it. Never compliment like other men do. Pic something totally random that she wouldn't expect as a compliment. For instance, if she wears her hair down, say "I bet you look great with your hair up" or something of that nature.

TheBadyGuy is dead on right....way too much David D but I will admit, IT WORKS!!!!

[calgarian]

I'm sorry but that is just dumb advice. I agree with telling your partner. But you have to remember it is illegal. In the beginning of a relationship you have no idea if its going to work. Why put yourself out there like that? You don't know if you can trust her, and just like this girls she can end up putting it out there for everyone else.

no it isnt in Canada...you can use it its selling that illegal

[Kawigirl]

no it isnt in Canada...you can use it its selling that illegal

Yup...yeeeaaaa for Canada..lol

[jtuner77]

Kawi can you put me up for a few months? Ill pay rent, dont worry you wont even know im there as I will be spending my time sleeping and working out.

[Kawigirl]

Kawi can you put me up for a few months? Ill pay rent, dont worry you wont even know im there as I will be spending my time sleeping and working out.

Okey...but gotta share a bed....is that a problem?

[jtuner77]

No....it's easier that way so when I am done "working out" I can just roll over and go to bed.