Did legs for the first time in 2 years....

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-13-2011, 12:13 AM

Anyone that doesn't know my workouts....basically I do at least 32 sets (8 exercises and 4 sets each) for all my workouts (32 for bi's, 32 for tri's, sometimes 36, and for back sometimes 40 sets) all in around 75 mins. 1 body part a day (minues abs and forearms)

Anyway, I did legs today because I want to build a solid lower frame, and OMG I remember why I hate legs, I could barely leave the gym afterwards and it takes me forever to go up a flight of stairs

I know I am going to be so sore tomm...god help me

Not to mention I go to do the hacksquat and some guy comes and does the leg press right next to me and packs on 14 plates compared to my 2 plates and I am like.....really bro? This would happen on my first day of legs

**Catch** · 06-13-2011, 12:32 AM

I don't get this. You do 32 or 40 sets for every single muscle above the waist and don't even bother with legs? Why? Is this common?

I must be doing it wrong. But that's no surprise.

**Twist** · 06-13-2011, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Catch

You do 32 or 40 sets for every single muscle above the waist and don't even bother with legs?

I was thinking the same thing lol

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-13-2011, 01:40 AM

Reason, I never did legs was primarily based on the fact I hated legs and didn't really take them seriously. I only cared about upper-body, that has changed.

However, another reason were my knees. I always had weaker knees growing up and I was afraid of building muscle at the expense of stress on my joints if I did legs.

**lovbyts** · 06-13-2011, 01:55 AM

Yeah but it's been proven over and over if you want decent size you have to do legs also or you really arent getting your core muscles and everything in-between.

**Times Roman** · 06-13-2011, 02:33 AM

C'mon guys. cut IS some slack! I mean.... popeye never had any issues with ignoring legs..... =)

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-13-2011, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Yeah but it's been proven over and over if you want decent size you have to do legs also or you really arent getting your core muscles and everything in-between.

Get out of here with your CONSPIRACY MUMBO JUMBO!

ANTI-LEGS!

WHOS WITH ME! lol

**Braveone** · 06-13-2011, 02:55 AM

I'm in! Seriously, I'm anti-pain. Got two herniated discs and can only work legs sporadically. And never without pain. I haven't squatted in years. It just isn't worth the agony. I have to use the bitch seated leg press in the FITNESS section of the gym. Fml

**Braveone** · 06-13-2011, 02:58 AM

I'm in! Seriously, I'm anti-pain. Got two herniated discs and can only work legs sporadically. And never without pain. I haven't squatted in years. It just isn't worth the agony. I have to use the bitch seated leg press in the FITNESS section of the gym. Fml

**wmaousley** · 06-13-2011, 03:17 AM

Legs are Key for growth

**cro** · 06-13-2011, 04:07 AM

4 sure .

Originally Posted by wmaousley

Legs are Key for growth

**lovbyts** · 06-13-2011, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Braveone

I'm in! Seriously, I'm anti-pain. Got two herniated discs and can only work legs sporadically. And never without pain. I haven't squatted in years. It just isn't worth the agony. I have to use the bitch seated leg press in the FITNESS section of the gym. Fml

Dont give up on squats, just start light, bar only. I have 3 herniated/ruptured discs. L3, L4 and L5/S1. I used it as an excuse for a long time to not do squats. I still dont do it as often as I should but I have noticed that the more I do it the less pain I have. The more I work my back slowly the more I can do without any pain.

**Mooseman33** · 06-13-2011, 08:05 AM

Immortal u are such a beast... u have kept that training routine for over a year...ur joints are going to kill u in 10 years..
u young college guys...wait..

good to see u back immortal..

**pheenyx1** · 06-13-2011, 08:11 AM

Does anyone have a link that explains the "legs are key to growth" thing? I have been hearing it forever, but no one ever gave me any kind of science behind it. I'm not questioning it, its just that I HATE doing legs, and if I had a real understanding of why it is so good to do I maybe it would help dealing with the 3 days of pain that a 1hr leg workout usually entails.

**lovbyts** · 06-13-2011, 08:22 AM

You can start here.
http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/squat
There are many links I cant post but do a google search for Benefits of squats. That should bring up a few things.

**auslifta** · 06-13-2011, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by pheenyx1

Does anyone have a link that explains the "legs are key to growth" thing? I have been hearing it forever, but no one ever gave me any kind of science behind it. I'm not questioning it, its just that I HATE doing legs, and if I had a real understanding of why it is so good to do I maybe it would help dealing with the 3 days of pain that a 1hr leg workout usually entails.

Testosterone and GH levels after squats & deadlifts:

Resistance training in general, increases testosterone and growth hormone , during and immediately after post excercise. It has been shown in many studies, including a published study Int J Sports Med. 1991 Apr;12(2):228-35 done on both men and women during resistance excercise. Squats and deadlifts increase GH and Testosterone, more than other compound excercises during excercise.

There is however, no significant studies that show that resistance excercise, directly leads to higher hormone levels long term. In fact, for a day or 2 post-excercise, many studies show LH and testosterone decline, while cortisol increases. In other words, building yourself up to a 200 lb ripped bodybuilder doesn’t directly increase your testosterone levels , from when you were smaller. But you might though have higher testosterone levels, due to better eating, supplementation, and working out, as a result of the bodybuilding lifestyle. The increased cortisol levels and lower testosterone, is also why overtraining is such an easy state to enter. We have to allow our body to recuperate itself, before doing more weight lifting.

Long term effects from squatting and deadlifting:

The benefit for doing leg excercises, appears from research not to be from increasing long term natural levels of testosterone and GH. I believe however the large burst of testosterone and other hormones during leg excercises, are the major reasons why squats and deadlifts are very important for overall muscle building. It’s the same reason why a bench press is more effective mass builder than a chest flye workout. Why? because the compound bench press is going to release more testosterone and GH in a workout than a chest flye.

The large burst of anabolic hormones resulting from squats and deadlifts, allows most of your muscles to benefit from this release simultaneously. Squats and deadlifts work many muscles simultaneously in the body and will allow most of your body to get some stimulation from the release of the hormones during the workout. The testosterone and GH released, is very crucial for being a catalyst for your muscle growth. It won’t be released as much in the smaller compound excercises, such as bench press. Therefore doing smaller compound excercises, would not be able to makeup for the benefit of having leg workouts in your routine.

Most experienced bodybuilders know all too well, how important leg excercises are for overall mass. You’ve probably seen the guys walking in the gym who look like lightbulbs (big upper body, but chicken legs). That has made many bodybuilders question the idea that leg excercises always equals bigger upper body. One must keep in mind we don’t know if they are using steroids , which would make it a little easier to gain upper body mass without leg excercises. On the flipside, it would also be harder post cycle for a steroid user just to keep his gains. These people probably also have excellent upper body genetics and years of training experience. If they worked harder on leg excercises, they would be even bigger.

**Catch** · 06-13-2011, 01:37 PM

About 25 years ago when I was 12 years old and wanted to be the Hulk so badly I couldn't stand it, I read Arnold's book. Don't remember the name, but it's a classic. I remember reading in there that squats were the single most important exercise and that it promoted muscle growth not just in the legs, but everywhere. He also said that deep squats were also the best excercise for getting your chest bigger due to the expansion of your rib cage.

That was read when I was 12 years old and it's stuck with me ever since. Squats. Good enough for Arnold. Good enough for me.

There is also no denying the science behind activating so big of a muscle group and so many associated groups by doing squats and deadlift. And no, leg presses are not a good substitute.

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-13-2011, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

Immortal u are such a beast... u have kept that training routine for over a year...ur joints are going to kill u in 10 years..
u young college guys...wait..

good to see u back immortal..

1 year? Try 3 years Moose! I make Arnold look like a bitch! 32 sets/8 exercises for bi's in around 75 mins! Who else does that!!? That's called intensity folks, anyone can pump out 32 sets in 2 hours, but doing it in half that time is what results in GROWTH!

Originally Posted by Catch

And no, leg presses are not a good substitute.

I beg to differ, I think the proper combination of leg presses and hack squats will deliver NEARLY the same results for a novice leg lifter as squats. Only when your legs have developed a base is it best to go over to squats in my opinion.

For example right now I am building a base and strength or else if I don't I probably will go to the squat rack and let my ego get the best of me resulting in less reps and proper form. Most people won't admit this, but I will. It's better to get a base down now, then go over to squats because 90% of people out there will not start off with low weight in fear of being rediculed and thus thats how poor form starts off.

**pheenyx1** · 06-13-2011, 03:17 PM

Good info. Thanks guys. I'm still gonna dread leg days, but at least I will have some consolation during the pain, knowing that I am also benefiting the "glamour muscles" ie. Chest, arms, back.

**Catch** · 06-13-2011, 03:37 PM

I don't know, man. Hacks are ok in my book, but your knees are no excuse. A well performed squat is probably easier on the knees than anything because there are so many supporting muscle groups involved, but it's your body and you know it best. But if it's solely your ego that's preventing you from putting the proper weight on the bar, then you get no pass from me. Man up.

I love that you've come back to legs. Better late than never. Keep putting in the work. It's obvious that you have the drive and dedication.

**buffgator** · 06-13-2011, 03:39 PM

you make Arnold look like a bitch yet you don't work legs....that's a pretty bold statement!

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-13-2011, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Catch

I don't know, man. Hacks are ok in my book, but your knees are no excuse. A well performed squat is probably easier on the knees than anything because there are so many supporting muscle groups involved, but it's your body and you know it best. But if it's solely your ego that's preventing you from putting the proper weight on the bar, then you get no pass from me. Man up.

I love that you've come back to legs. Better late than never. Keep putting in the work. It's obvious that you have the drive and dedication.

No, I am def. going to go to squats, just waiting at least a month till I break "my cherry" so to speak for legs. Right now hack squats and leg press along with lunges should build them up for a transition to squat.

Originally Posted by buffgator

you make Arnold look like a bitch yet you don't work legs....that's a pretty bold statement!

Listen FATgator, I started lifting at 134lbs I am tipping 200lbs now. THAT IS DEDICATION, BLOOD, SWEAT, AND TEARS!

HORRRAYYYYYYYY!

I lost all respect for Arnold when he knocked up his 200lb+ housewife, for real you maybe 60+ years old Arnie, but you can still get hot ass chicks just because your famous.

**buffgator** · 06-13-2011, 09:40 PM

In all seriousness you could probably be 210-215 had you been working legs.....I understand though that it sucks when it hurts

**Times Roman** · 06-14-2011, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Catch

I don't get this. You do 32 or 40 sets for every single muscle above the waist and don't even bother with legs? Why? Is this common?

I must be doing it wrong. But that's no surprise.

I just exercise my triceps 5x a week. But I'm not seeing any gains. I must be doing something wrong?

**Mooseman33** · 06-14-2011, 07:35 AM

cmon Times...
off course ur doing something wrong, ur only doing them 5x a week...there are 2 other days, kick it up to 7x a week and u will see growth...lol

**Times Roman** · 06-14-2011, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

cmon Times...
off course ur doing something wrong, ur only doing them 5x a week...there are 2 other days, kick it up to 7x a week and u will see growth...lol

7x a week? really? now I feel like i've been slacking.

So how many times a day should i work out my triceps? I'm thinking after each meal to get the most ripped I can be.

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-14-2011, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I just exercise my triceps 5x a week. But I'm not seeing any gains. I must be doing something wrong?

You Talk alot of smack, but I do 1 body part (minus abs/forearms) a week and from these workouts I went from 134 to 200 and before you say it..the majority (80%) of those gains were hormone free. I still pump out more exercises, more sets, more intensity, in 60+ mins than anyone in the gym in the same period of time.

So go ahead make fun, but try that workout sometime and see if you can keep the intensity going through 8-9 exercises AND still finish in less than 75 mins.

People make fun, but they just don't understand....

**Panzerfaust** · 06-14-2011, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

1 year? Try 3 years Moose! I make Arnold look like a bitch! 32 sets/8 exercises for bi's in around 75 mins! Who else does that!!? That's called intensity folks, anyone can pump out 32 sets in 2 hours, but doing it in half that time is what results in GROWTH!

I beg to differ, I think the proper combination of leg presses and hack squats will deliver NEARLY the same results for a novice leg lifter as squats. Only when your legs have developed a base is it best to go over to squats in my opinion.

For example right now I am building a base and strength or else if I don't I probably will go to the squat rack and let my ego get the best of me resulting in less reps and proper form. Most people won't admit this, but I will. It's better to get a base down now, then go over to squats because 90% of people out there will not start off with low weight in fear of being rediculed and thus thats how poor form starts off.

Ok, big talker..we're ready for pics of you now. Don't worry, I'll wait......

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-14-2011, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

Ok, big talker..we're ready for pics of you now. Don't worry, I'll wait......

Pics of my legs? I just told you they are skinny and I started for the first time in 2 years ago.

And if you think I am a "big talker" than you obviously don't know my joking personality so don't call me out as a 'big talker' when anyone with a brain cell can see I mess around. I don't have to "prove" anything to you. Think what you want, I am actually 5'2 100lbs, I could careless lol.

**Panzerfaust** · 06-14-2011, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Pics of my legs? I just told you they are skinny and I started for the first time in 2 years ago.

And if you think I am a "big talker" than you obviously don't know my joking personality so don't call me out as a 'big talker' when anyone with a brain cell can see I mess around. I don't have to "prove" anything to you. Think what you want, I am actually 5'2 100lbs, I could careless lol.

I rest my case!

**Immortal Soldier** · 06-14-2011, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Panzerfaust

I rest my case!

You don't rest anything, its not my fault your wiener-schnitzel brain is too dumb to comprehend a joking personality when you see one. You asked to see pics of my legs when I just told you I started working them out. You call me a "bigger talker" because I said I can achieve nearly the same results doing hacksquats/leg presses the first 3 weeks then jumping straight into squats. Last I checked this is the "lounge" not the exercise section so I can say what the **** I want. Hell I can say that eating doughnuts will give you bigger quads than Kai Green. Are you going to ask for my pics then too? LOL

Congrats you sure proved me wrong....don't worry you will be the first person I PM once I reach my goal. I have seen alot of assholes like you in my life starting out as young kid at 134lbs and saying I would never reach this or never be that. You little egotistical dicks are what fuel me and drive me each day in the gym.

So I thank you.

**stevey_6t9** · 06-14-2011, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

You don't rest anything, its not my fault your wiener-schnitzel brain is too dumb to comprehend a joking personality when you see one. You asked to see pics of my legs when I just told you I started working them out. You call me a "bigger talker" because I said I can achieve nearly the same results doing hacksquats/leg presses the first 3 weeks then jumping straight into squats. Last I checked this is the "lounge" not the exercise section so I can say what the **** I want. Hell I can say that eating doughnuts will give you bigger quads than Kai Green. Are you going to ask for my pics then too? LOL

Congrats you sure proved me wrong....don't worry you will be the first person I PM once I reach my goal. I have seen alot of assholes like you in my life starting out as young kid at 134lbs and saying I would never reach this or never be that. You little egotistical dicks are what fuel me and drive me each day in the gym.

So I thank you.

**Times Roman** · 06-15-2011, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

You Talk alot of smack, but I do 1 body part (minus abs/forearms) a week and from these workouts I went from 134 to 200 and before you say it..the majority (80%) of those gains were hormone free. I still pump out more exercises, more sets, more intensity, in 60+ mins than anyone in the gym in the same period of time.

So go ahead make fun, but try that workout sometime and see if you can keep the intensity going through 8-9 exercises AND still finish in less than 75 mins.

People make fun, but they just don't understand....

yep. that's for sure! =)

**Catch** · 06-15-2011, 04:41 AM

So... No pics? I'm not talking smack. I'd just like to see what 3 years of 32-40 sets looks like and whether it's worth it. Lol. You don't have to post your bird legs

**Standby** · 06-15-2011, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Catch

So... No pics? I'm not talking smack. I'd just like to see what 3 years of 32-40 sets looks like and whether it's worth it. Lol. You don't have to post your bird legs

he is suspended, dont hold your breath for the pics lol

**JohnnyVegas** · 06-15-2011, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Dont give up on squats, just start light, bar only. I have 3 herniated/ruptured discs. L3, L4 and L5/S1. I used it as an excuse for a long time to not do squats. I still dont do it as often as I should but I have noticed that the more I do it the less pain I have. The more I work my back slowly the more I can do without any pain.

I am going to start this. I was out of the gym for six years with a back injury and have been back at it for six months with good results...but still struggle with legs. I get pain when I compress my spine and have given up on deads and squats. Maybe starting really light will allow me to get back into it.

**Times Roman** · 06-15-2011, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

I am going to start this. I was out of the gym for six years with a back injury and have been back at it for six months with good results...but still struggle with legs. I get pain when I compress my spine and have given up on deads and squats. Maybe starting really light will allow me to get back into it.

leg press? I know not as good, but better than nothing

**Twist** · 06-16-2011, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

I am going to start this. I was out of the gym for six years with a back injury and have been back at it for six months with good results...but still struggle with legs. I get pain when I compress my spine and have given up on deads and squats. Maybe starting really light will allow me to get back into it.

I think that developing the back muscles is the most important aspect of weight training. No matter your goals. I don't know your specific problem but I would definitely work those muscles. I'm not talking about lats, I'm talking about the multifidus and the erector spinae muscles. Start with back extensions (on the machine if you have to) and work your way up. Give the back 6 days to repair after a good workout. If you are sore on day 5, don't work them again until day 8. It's important to keep those muscles developed.

**terraj** · 06-16-2011, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

I think that developing the back muscles is the most important aspect of weight training. No matter your goals. I don't know your specific problem but I would definitely work those muscles. I'm not talking about lats, I'm talking about the multifidus and the erector spinae muscles. Start with back extensions (on the machine if you have to) and work your way up. Give the back 6 days to repair after a good workout. If you are sore on day 5, don't work them again until day 8. It's important to keep those muscles developed.

Very much agreed with this^^

First year training should be focused on deads and squats...everything else falls into place with this base. If I am taking time off training or just busy, I will make sure I get a dead or rack pull workout in, I can hold mass and overall strength for months just on that alone

Myself , I do fine with 4 days between back workouts