'Don't ask, don't tell' ban on gays in US military ends

[DSM4Life]

A policy banning open homosexuality in the US military has been repealed after nearly two decades.

The dropping of "don't ask, don't tell" means service members can now reveal they are gay without fear of investigation or discharge.

"Repeal Day" parties have been organised across the country to mark the victory for gay rights.

The US Congress voted last year to repeal the law, which was introduced in 1993 under the Clinton administration.

Under the policy, gay people were permitted to serve as long as they did not openly acknowledge their sexual orientation, while commanders were not allowed to ask.

Displays of affection
Pentagon press secretary George Little told reporters on Monday that the Department of Defense was fully prepared for repeal, and that 97% of military personnel had received training on the new law.

The armed forces have been accepting applications from openly gay recruits for a number of weeks and will begin processing them now that the new law has taken effect.

The military has also published a revised set of regulations, without references to any ban against homosexual service members.

Pending investigations, discharges and other administrative proceedings have now been dropped under the new law.

Those who have been discharged under the don't ask, don't tell rule are entitled to re-enlist.

But existing standards of personal conduct, such as those pertaining to public displays of affection, will not change.

Nor will there be any change to the eligibility standards for military benefits.

Under current rules, service members are allowed to choose a partner as care-giver under the Wounded Warrior programme, or as a life insurance beneficiary.

"Our nation will finally close the door on a fundamental unfairness for gays and lesbians, and indeed affirm equality for all Americans," said House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, a California Democrat and leading advocate of the repeal.

Some in Congress remain opposed to repeal, arguing it could undermine efficiency and discipline in the military.

After the Don't Ask Don't Tell Repeal Act was passed by Congress last December, President Barack Obama, Defence Secretary Leon Panetta and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Admiral Mike Mullen certified that allowing openly gay service members would not undermine the military.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14981082

[lovbyts]

Are you signing up?

[Marine2000]

A very sad day for our military. DOD was not the place to take the gay rights battle to right now. It's unfortunate for both the gays and the straight as this will likely add unneeded stress for both sides during a time when our military is being asked to accomplish an extremely difficult mission. Since gays will now be able to openly serve, and shower with a battalion full of straight men getting themselves turned on, hopefully this means the straight men will get to shower with the woman very soon!

[Marine2000]

A very sad day for our military. DOD was not the place to take the gay rights battle to right now. It's unfortunate for both the gays and the straight as this will likely add unneeded stress for both sides during a time when our military is being asked to accomplish an extremely difficult mission. Since gays will now be able to openly serve, and shower with a battalion full of straight men getting themselves turned on, hopefully this means the straight men will get to shower with the woman very soon!

[jasc]

good for them... personally I'd rather go in to combat with a strong gay man then an overcompensating woman... gay or not, they are just as capable as hetero men..
However, If the gay soldier were to be flambouyant (sp?) or ever make sexual comments towards the other men, I think this could be grounds for discharge.. those are distractions our soldiers don't need

[Shol'va]

A very sad day for our military. DOD was not the place to take the gay rights battle to right now. It's unfortunate for both the gays and the straight as this will likely add unneeded stress for both sides during a time when our military is being asked to accomplish an extremely difficult mission. Since gays will now be able to openly serve, and shower with a battalion full of straight men getting themselves turned on, hopefully this means the straight men will get to shower with the woman very soon!

Where on earth do you think those gay military men have been showering all these years? Have you ever even been in the service? It's open community showers and even straight guys sometimes get boners in there. It's part of life, but most men in the military are secure in their own sexuality so it's no big deal. It sounds as if may you are the one worried about popping a boner in those very showers. You protest a little too much.

[Lemonada8]

hey DSM and sholva and whoever else is apart of the gay community... how do you feel about dont ask dont tell?

personally, i thought it was in place to avoid confrontation in the military and let them focus on what was at hand.

[Shol'va]

hey DSM and sholva and whoever else is apart of the gay community... how do you feel about dont ask dont tell?

personally, i thought it was in place to avoid confrontation in the military and let them focus on what was at hand.

IMO unfortunately it was a failure causing more gay men than ever before to be kicked out of the military for doing nothing more than an honorable service. Only through jealousy though those really good ones were exposed and discharged. You can't have secrets like that and perform in a place where it can be used against you. A few deserved to be discharged but not the majority whose only crime was being gay and wanting to give their lives for this country. Makes no sense. How on earth can one think of sex with another when ied's are exploding all around, sniper fire flying at you and people being killed all around? Man your adrenaline is going so high that is the very last thing on your mind.

[Nooomoto]

I wonder now if making gay jokes about a now openly gay soldier would be considered harassment, more than if the soldier were hiding his sexual orientation.

[Marine2000]

Where on earth do you think those gay military men have been showering all these years? Have you ever even been in the service? It's open community showers and even straight guys sometimes get boners in there. It's part of life, but most men in the military are secure in their own sexuality so it's no big deal. It sounds as if may you are the one worried about popping a boner in those very showers. You protest a little too much.

I was in the Marine Corps for many years and never saw anyone get a hard-on in the shower. Might have been because I wasn't meat gazing. And gays serving openly is like having cancer. I'd rather not know I was terminally ill. Just like I'd rather not have the guy next to me commenting on how hot some other guy is. Gay? Fine. That's your secret to keep. Flame away but my opinion isn't changing brother. (gay in the civilian world? I fought for that choice too. I'm not hating on the gays so don't turn it into that)

[Shol'va]

I was in the Marine Corps for many years and never saw anyone get a hard-on in the shower. Might have been because I wasn't meat gazing. And gays serving openly is like having cancer. I'd rather not know I was terminally ill. Just like I'd rather not have the guy next to me commenting on how hot some other guy is. Gay? Fine. That's your secret to keep. Flame away but my opinion isn't changing brother. (gay in the civilian world? I fought for that choice too. I'm not hating on the gays so don't turn it into that)

Just one thing, reread what I've outlined in bold that you just wrote.

[Marine2000]

Just one thing, reread what I've outlined in bold that you just wrote.

I knew that might piss you off but I couldn't think of anything else someone may unknowingly have. May have been a poor analogy. Just see the humor in it and laugh a little. I'm seriously not hating on you man.

I think it's a poor DOD policy but its a win for you guys so just let me sulk a little

[SexySweetheart]

oh no! there will be rampit gays raping our soldiers now that the fat white government men have given their ritchious blessing to the gay military community to be what they have been the whole friggan time! how can our solders fight if they are covering their bums insteada holding their guns!
pah-leeese

...well its about time! I mean seriously, people need to get over themselves and their beliefs and just let grown adults fvck who ever wants ta fvck um back shhheshh.

I think all people should be treated equally and are equal game for jokes at their expence lol

[Shol'va]

I knew that might piss you off but I couldn't think of anything else someone may unknowingly have. May have been a poor analogy. Just see the humor in it and laugh a little. I'm seriously not hating on you man.

I think it's a poor DOD policy but its a win for you guys so just let me sulk a little

No problem it's all cool No need to sulk though. It it helps at all, in the last 21 years there have been many other countries who have allowed gays to serve openly in their military as well without any serious issues.

[Shol'va]

But then again this is the US and these straight marines just found out about the new policy. Utt Ohhh..

[Shol'va]

[RaZr]

Well I'm in the service and straight and while I do feel that if a straight male does not wish to shower with a gay male it should be his right I personally do not care, My roommate in Iraq was gay and we changed and showered in front of each other. I was one of 3 people who knew me and his bf obviously. Marine2000 drop the fvcking ignorance fool.

Edit: Just because they're gay doesn't mean they find you attractive ugly ass

[gixxerboy1]

No problem it's all cool No need to sulk though. It it helps at all, in the last 21 years there have been many other countries who have allowed gays to serve openly in their military as well without any serious issues.

Your a bigger man then me. His post really pissed me off but im going to keep my mouth shut. I dont know how you let that slide of you back.

[RaZr]

Your a bigger man then me. His post really pissed me off but im going to keep my mouth shut. I dont know how you let that slide of you back.

And me as you can see by my last post

[spywizard]

actually an openly "gay" superior will be an easy target for anyone that they piss off..

situation
"Sgt Johnson, I'll need you to work the night shift this weekend"

in a loud voice

"Sir, no sir, I will not have sex with you, I am not a homosexual"

end of career..

[gixxerboy1]

^^^ i doubt it. Couldnt all women in the military pull that now?

[spywizard]

^^^ i doubt it. Couldnt all women in the military pull that now?

they do....

[gixxerboy1]

they do....

i really dont know. But does something as a simple acquisition end a career?

[spywizard]

for an officer.. yes..

but i was active duty for 10 years and am a little cynical..

[SexySweetheart]

yea, chicx pull the sex card out all the time and get guys fired, thats why the work force, government offices and military is SWARMED with women and the poor guys are in the minority, white strait men have it so ruff, I feel for you guys, I truely do.
Maybe mrs president can change all that for yall ~ooops sorry, you may have to wait a few more decades, must be cuz the sexual card doesnt play as well in oval office.

[stevey_6t9]

[Nooomoto]

Is the air force having a coming out party? Sorry cheap shot but had to take it!

[Shol'va]

Your a bigger man then me. His post really pissed me off but im going to keep my mouth shut. I dont know how you let that slide of you back.

Eh it's an open forum and Marine2000 has the right to his opinion, besides I really don't think he is as opposed as he lets on. He only said while in the military he never saw anyone get a hard on in the showers. That doesn't exclude the barracks...

[gixxerboy1]

yea, chicx pull the sex card out all the time and get guys fired, thats why the work force, government offices and military is SWARMED with women and the poor guys are in the minority, white strait men have it so ruff, I feel for you guys, I truely do.
Maybe mrs president can change all that for yall ~ooops sorry, you may have to wait a few more decades, must be cuz the sexual card doesnt play as well in oval office.

Do you mind me asking what race or nationality are you.
You made 2 comments in this tread pointing out white men. I'm curious now

[gixxerboy1]

Eh it's an open forum and Marine2000 has the right to his opinion, besides I really don't think he is as opposed as he lets on. He only said while in the military he never saw anyone get a hard on in the showers. That doesn't exclude the barracks...

i guess you really dont see the hard on if your getting it from behind

[black6]

The problem with it IMO is that you have gays that are now open with their life style choice serving, rooming, showering with straight men. If that is fine, and I know its "PC", why have different barracks for women? Same concept. Lets say PVT OpenlyGay hangs out near the showers an unusual amount of time. Thats his right, but does it create an atmosphere that bonds an unit together for possible times of war? I know that being a straight man if i had a chance to shower with women in the Army I would be all over it.

Im afraid that people that may not have served may not know the situation of being in the military.

Short story: We had a new group a PVT's come into the unit. 18 yr old kids from all different walks of life. I say kids b/c IMO till you hit late 20's you have little to no ideal whats going on in the world. We was stationed in Germany with a 15 yr old drinking age, and like clock work they went crazy for the first 3 weekends till their money ran out. Well we had a gay CPL in the unit/barracks that basically raped this poor kid after he got him drunk one weekend.

Easy enough to say men rape women all the time. Hence thats why we keep them separated in the barracks and showers. Its not that everyone will do something like this, but we as a society keep men and women separated during certain times.

The Military should be the last place you want any extra stress to be given to 99.5% for the men. The military was once a place a high discipline and strict rules. Its that way for a reason.

Its been 20 yrs since i served and alot has changed I've heard since I was in. I want my son to join when he comes out of high school. It builds strength, discipline and over all builds a young man. I cant imagine him calling me and saying, "yeah Dad, Im rooming with two other guys and they are both gay."

Off my soap box, but that LAST place I would want to come out with closet with something like that is in the Army or Marines. Those guys are going to get destroyed, or at least they would have in units I was in.

[gixxerboy1]

The problem with it IMO is that you have gays that are now open with their life style choice serving, rooming, showering with straight men. If that is fine, and I know its "PC", why have different barracks for women? Same concept. Lets say PVT OpenlyGay hangs out near the showers an unusual amount of time. Thats his right, but does it create an atmosphere that bonds an unit together for possible times of war? I know that being a straight man if i had a chance to shower with women in the Army I would be all over it.

Im afraid that people that may not have served may not know the situation of being in the military.

Short story: We had a new group a PVT's come into the unit. 18 yr old kids from all different walks of life. I say kids b/c IMO till you hit late 20's you have little to no ideal whats going on in the world. We was stationed in Germany with a 15 yr old drinking age, and like clock work they went crazy for the first 3 weekends till their money ran out. Well we had a gay CPL in the unit/barracks that basically raped this poor kid after he got him drunk one weekend.

Easy enough to say men rape women all the time. Hence thats why we keep them separated in the barracks and showers. Its not that everyone will do something like this, but we as a society keep men and women separated during certain times.

The Military should be the last place you want any extra stress to be given to 99.5% for the men. The military was once a place a high discipline and strict rules. Its that way for a reason.

Its been 20 yrs since i served and alot has changed I've heard since I was in. I want my son to join when he comes out of high school. It builds strength, discipline and over all builds a young man. I cant imagine him calling me and saying, "yeah Dad, Im rooming with two other guys and they are both gay."

Off my soap box, but that LAST place I would want to come out with closet with something like that is in the Army or Marines. Those guys are going to get destroyed, or at least they would have in units I was in.

Then you dont deservce the respect of the uniform.
You all served with gay men already. Just because they are able to be "out" doesnt mean they are going to act like its the NYC gay pride parade.

[black6]

Then you dont deservce the respect of the uniform.
You all served with gay men already. Just because they are able to be "out" doesnt mean they are going to act like its the NYC gay pride parade.

With a comment like that I would guess you never served. Your lack of service allows you to look from the outside in and voice your views however different them mine, but my Purple Heart says I DID DESERVE the right and honor to wear the uniform.

If you think military justice does not happen in the military then it proves my point about either you service or age.

Did not comment on this subject to start a pissing match, just my thoughts on the subject.

[gixxerboy1]

With a comment like that I would guess you never served. Your lack of service allows you to look from the outside in and voice your views however different them mine, but my Purple Heart says I DID DESERVE the right and honor to wear the uniform.

If you think military justice does not happen in the military then it proves my point about either you service or age.

Did not comment on this subject to start a pissing match, just my thoughts on the subject.

i think military justice happens. "destroying" someone because they are gay isnt justice. You dont need to serve to know that and know better. And if you dont know better you deserve no respect.

[Shol'va]

You are welcome to your comments black6, as that is how you feel. But why is it that our Nation is one of the last ones to allow gays to serve in the military? Well I hate to bring in religion but we all know that the major religious organizations are throwing a fit as we post on this issue here. And if their is so much friction why do most of the other countries such as Israel, Great Britain, Netherlands, etc have no issues with gays serving in their military. IMO it is the honorable thing to do. If gay men and women wish to serve in our military and respect the rules and regulations set forth within them, then why not allow it to be? To me this should have been a non issue years ago when the military allowed gay men to openly serve. And when was this you might ask? Well during the Vietnam war. Yep our military drafted them even though they told the military they were gay. But the military brass being what it was in those days forced those gay men to vietnam to serve their term and if they lived through it and their term was up they were sent back for dishonorable discharge. So it was ok then to allow the gays in when it suited a purpose.

[Shol'va]

Wow! Read these articles on what Israel and Britain has to say about those gays in their military.

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/02/in...e-no-big-deal/

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/02/br...-gay-soldiers/

[black6]

You are welcome to your comments black6, as that is how you feel. But why is it that our Nation is one of the last ones to allow gays to serve in the military? Well I hate to bring in religion but we all know that the major religious organizations are throwing a fit as we post on this issue here. And if their is so much friction why do most of the other countries such as Israel, Great Britain, Netherlands, etc have no issues with gays serving in their military. IMO it is the honorable thing to do. If gay men and women wish to serve in our military and respect the rules and regulations set forth within them, then why not allow it to be? To me this should have been a non issue years ago when the military allowed gay men to openly serve. And when was this you might ask? Well during the Vietnam war. Yep our military drafted them even though they told the military they were gay. But the military brass being what it was in those days forced those gay men to vietnam to serve their term and if they lived through it and their term was up they were sent back for dishonorable discharge. So it was ok then to allow the gays in when it suited a purpose.

Thanks for a for your views on my comments. I couldnt really find any info to back up you claims on the Vietnam war draft. Did see many sites saying it was a way to avoid the draft.

I did see and read your links on other country's standard. I remember one time we did training/force road march with the German's. It was an 100km march and the third and last day we found out that instead of full gear they packed pillows to save weight. Point being that I have always seen the U.S as the standard setter. Regardless of what other country's do we have always set our own standards. Now in the day of "PC" its almost impossible to keep those standards. Somewhat off topic but an example of things changing. When I joined and we did "PT" we didnt stop till we was throwing up. Now days you can tell your "DI" your tired and take a break till your ready again.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/gayle...aymilitary.htm

This link kinda shows how this whole thing can get turned around.

[Twist]

If you can hold your own then I wouldn't give a shit.

[paulzane]

If you can hold your own then I wouldn't give a shit.

Yes but they want to hold it as well!!

[wmaousley]

good for them... personally I'd rather go in to combat with a strong gay man then an overcompensating woman... gay or not, they are just as capable as hetero men..
However, If the gay soldier were to be flambouyant (sp?) or ever make sexual comments towards the other men, I think this could be grounds for discharge.. those are distractions our soldiers don't need

Obviously you have never been to combat with competent women, I was fortunate enough to have a female I was deployed with (Sgt. Leigh Hester) be the first woman since WWII to receive the Silver Star for Valor for her actions in combat. Never underestimate the power of a woman.