Why does Ar and some of the elites preach

[Razor]

8 week cycles? Its just not enough time to get anything done. 12-16 week minimum is what I think. Enth and cyp does not really come on till week 4.

[jasc]

8 weeks is for short esters bro.. Atleast thats my take on it.

My last go round I pushed prop to 12.5wks n don't think I will again. I had great gains up until week 9 or so and it seemed that from wk. 10 on all I got was bad acne.

[Razor]

So you will stick to 8-10 weeks from now on?

[awms]

I think it depends what your on...I have a budy who loves shorter 8 weeks cycles but hes taking 750-1000mg a week along with one or two other compounds (I say no thanks! way to many pins for me!) but he loves them. I agree if your running cyp or enth you need atleast 10-12 weeks....test doesnt really "kick" for me until around week 4 any way.

[awms]

p.s he uses prop which kicks in after 3-4 days.

[jasc]

So you will stick to 8-10 weeks from now on?

that's the plan, but easier said than done

[Dukkit]

Length of cycle shouldnt be set to anything other than listening to your body.

If your gains slow... add more food.... add more rest... add more hormones. In that order IMO.

If gains still stall... then stop cycle. Could be 3 weeks, could be 30 weeks.

[JP-MAN]

^^^ agree.
i never have a set time for my cycles, or runs as i call them now. i listen to my body.
but to the OP, i have to disagree, 8-10 weeks i have had my best runs.

[DeadlyD]

8 week cycles? Its just not enough time to get anything done. 12-16 week minimum is what I think. Enth and cyp does not really come on till week 4.

I agree with the 8 week short ester cycles and after a lot of research I made the decision to extend my enth cycle to 12-14 weeks instead of 10 weeks.

[Razor]

I agree with the 8 week short ester cycles and after a lot of research I made the decision to extend my enth cycle to 12-14 weeks instead of 10 weeks.

Glad someone agree's

[Razor]

Im gonna plan for a 10 week run and go see what happens. Since it lasts another 2 weeks after. End up being like 12 weeks anyways.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Shorter, short ester cycles are the way to go IMO.

If you run a 12 week long ester cycle you waste the 1st 4 - 5 weeks waiting for your your gear to kick in, then you have to wait 2 weeks at the end of cycle to start pct. You're shut down from probably week 2 on, so pct and recovery + time off is much longer than on a shorter cycle.

You can run a 6 week short ester cycle, make incredible gains for all 6 weeks, cut your pct time and time off in half and go back on cycle again. You can safely run more cycles in the same amount of time, make more gains, and recover easier because you haven't been shut down for as long.

Plus the way I train on cycle for 6 or 8 weeks, there is no way I could keep up that level of intensity for a 12 or 16 week cycle. I can make more gains in an intense 6 weeks short ester cycle than a 12 week long ester cycle. Recover and start again while you're still in pct.

No brainer IMO.

[cherrydrpepper]

Serious add on question

Why would anyone run JUST prop and stuff with it when you could run cyp / enth and sprinkle prop in as you want? If you just do prop = pin ed, do it the other way pin 2x wk or more as wanted

[Razor]

Shorter, short ester cycles are the way to go IMO.

If you run a 12 week long ester cycle you waste the 1st 4 - 5 weeks waiting for your your gear to kick in, then you have to wait 2 weeks at the end of cycle to start pct. You're shut down from probably week 2 on, so pct and recovery + time off is much longer than on a shorter cycle.

You can run a 6 week short ester cycle, make incredible gains for all 6 weeks, cut your pct time and time off in half and go back on cycle again. You can safely run more cycles in the same amount of time, make more gains, and recover easier because you haven't been shut down for as long.

Plus the way I train on cycle for 6 or 8 weeks, there is no way I could keep up that level of intensity for a 12 or 16 week cycle. I can make more gains in an intense 6 weeks short ester cycle than a 12 week long ester cycle. Recover and start again while you're still in pct.

No brainer IMO.

I defanilty agree...how did you run your last cycle of enth then..
Damn maybe I should run prop instead of ethn then? Or Add prop to my enth cycle

Serious add on question

Why would anyone run JUST prop and stuff with it when you could run cyp / enth and sprinkle prop in as you want? If you just do prop = pin ed, do it the other way pin 2x wk or more as wanted

If that's the case I'm gonna do that.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Just kickstart with the prop and end your cycle when your gains stop.

[marcus300]

I've had some of my best gains from 30day to 6 week cycles. Longer cycles just dont give me the gains shorter ones can. Prime the body hit a short burst cycle come off recover equals bigger and better gains without the added sides of longer cycles. But you have to listen to your body and design cycles to how you grow and respond.

[Razor]

Ok what about this, I changed it
What do you think?
Weeks 1-2 Test Prop 100mg 3Xweek, Test enth 250mg week HCG 250iu 3XWeek HGH 5iu
Weeks 2-4 Test Prop 100mg 3Xweek,Test Enth 250mg, HCG 250iu 3XWeek, Gh 5iu
Weeks 4-6 Test Prop 100mg 3Xweek, Test Enth 250mg , HCG 250iu 3XWeek HGH 5iu
Weeks 6-8 Test Prop 100mg 3Xweek,Test Enth 250mg, HCG 250iu 3XWeek HGH 5iu and for the next 6 months
Liqidex .25-1mg 3xweek OCT AI
PCT Clomid and Nova

[Sgt. Hartman]

How much test do you usually run on cycle?

[Razor]

I've had some of my best gains from 30day to 6 week cycles. Longer cycles just dont give me the gains shorter ones can. Prime the body hit a short burst cycle come off recover equals bigger and better gains without the added sides of longer cycles. But you have to listen to your body and design cycles to how you grow and respond.

I just dont see how I can run enth for 6 weeks and walk away from that cycle saying man I gained enough

[Razor]

.....dp

[Sgt. Hartman]

You either have to front load the enanthate really hard or forget about it and stick with prop. To me, front loading just gets too comicated so I stick with prop only.

[Razor]

How much test do you usually run on cycle?

600-750mg

[marcus300]

I just dont see how I can run enth for 6 weeks and walk away from that cycle saying man I gained enough

Just use prop or frontload your test e. But look back over your cycle history and when do you normally start seeing results and what week do you see a slow down or stop? Design a cycle around this using suitable compounds.

[RA]

Im just responding to the original post. 100% correct.

[Razor]

Man I should have not changed it I origionally was going to go with suspension and prop....now i have all this enth here no prop or suspension and I've got butterfingers....

[Razor]

Just use prop or frontload your test e. But look back over your cycle history and when do you normally start seeing results and what week do you see a slow down or stop? Design a cycle around this using suitable compounds.

How much prop should i front load? Man I might have to re think this whole thing again

[jasc]

I've seen Bbrian set up some nice long/short ester cycles.. maybe he'll chime in.

[DeadlyD]

Just kickstart with the prop and end your cycle when your gains stop.

This is exactly what I'm doing.

[DeadlyD]

How much prop should i front load? Man I might have to re think this whole thing again

Razr, I am running 12-14 week test enth @ 250mgs twice a week and I'm front loading prop @ 50mgs ED for 2 weeks then I will also use the prop @50mgs ED after my last enth shot for 2 weeks then start pct 3-4 days after last prop shot. If that helps.

[marcus300]

How much prop should i front load? Man I might have to re think this whole thing again

I thought you didnt have prop!
If your after cutting your test E cycle down in length why not just frontload the test e, double the dose up to the first half life this will get you running at peak within the first couple of wks. Some like it others don't but if you have never tried it its worth a go. Or you can kickstart the cycle with the prop for the first 2-3 weeks, dose depending on how much test e your running, doesnt need to be high.

[TM1]

Serious add on question

Why would anyone run JUST prop and stuff with it when you could run cyp / enth and sprinkle prop in as you want? If you just do prop = pin ed, do it the other way pin 2x wk or more as wanted

You would still want to hit the prop eod if you "sprinkle" it in . If you are running a long ester test as a base and want to increase test levels and add prop the 48 hour wait will be max or you will have free test blood plasma levels fluctuating to much. Free test blood plasma levels rise within hours of prop hit and are dead in 48 hrs. I love the prop cycles because of the immediate control of levels up or down and will run them in shut ester stacks as well with freedom to play with all levels. Running prop and tren ace for example allows you to decrease your test over a short period and ramp up your ace for better tren effect and less tren sides. In this scenario if deca dick arises the levels can be changed over night with the quick addition of a little caber if needed. Shorts are great but as you say I will often cocktail prop into long esters for the additional boost but never beyond a 48 hr increment.

[Razor]

Razr, I am running 12-14 week test enth @ 250mgs twice a week and I'm front loading prop @ 50mgs ED for 2 weeks then I will also use the prop @50mgs ED after my last enth shot for 2 weeks then start pct 3-4 days after last prop shot. If that helps.

I like this plan a lot better. I had a whole great plan mapped out with prop and suspension and now I forgot it...I'm pissed.

I thought you didnt have prop!
If your after cutting your test E cycle down in length why not just frontload the test e, double the dose up to the first half life this will get you running at peak within the first couple of wks. Some like it others don't but if you have never tried it its worth a go. Or you can kickstart the cycle with the prop for the first 2-3 weeks, dose depending on how much test e your running, doesnt need to be high.

I dont have any...gonna have to get some now..I am going to kick start the enth with the prop as DD said.

[marcus300]

I

I like this plan a lot better. I had a whole great plan mapped out with prop and suspension and now I forgot it...I'm pissed.



I dont have any...gonna have to get some now..I am going to kick start the enth with the prop as DD said.

Well like I've said you don't need prop, just frontload the test e up to the first half life. Saves you getting the prop.

[Razor]

I

Well like I've said you don't need prop, just frontload the test e up to the first half life. Saves you getting the prop.

I have never done that b4 so I dont know how I will respond...doubling up on the test, 1000mg in the beginning might get a lot of sides..
A proper frontload is to double the dose until the first half life, So for test e it would be for 11 days I believe.

[Lemonada8]

I love 7 week cycles actually of prop. 2x the dose on the first day as a frontload then ED after that. It ends in a nice 50 total injections so a good even number for supplies, and not having excess

[Razor]

Im frustrated as hell..I have a competition june 18 and I still cant figure out what I want to run..I need one bulk and I need 12lbs for that...and then one cut before then as well. And now Im out of GH...waiting for that shit to come in as well..What I probbably going to do is run dbol 50mg ed prop 1-4 100eod, weeks 1-4 to kick start the enth. then run enth 1-10, frontload it and then run prop the rest of the time as well 100 EOD and run that the last two weeks after the last injection of enth. 10-12 then start PCT

[baseline_9]

Personally I have found that after around 8 weeks the gains slow...

I would say the fact that when we start a cycle we automatically increase intensity/volume/effort in the gym has somthing to do with slowed gains beyond the 8 week mark...


I believe in periodization.... After hitting it hard for 6-8 weeks your progress will slow any how... Deload/decrease volume/intensity for 3-5 weeks and go again


You cant grow at a steady pace for ever, you will simply burn out.... You will grow in short periods where intensity is pushed to the max (peak intensity)....


A 'PEAK' is a peak for a reason... It will be surrounded by lower points...

[gearbox]

I talked to b brian and he does set his up nicely. He does prop and e. prop for two weeks usually at 50 mg ed and then uses prop at the end of his cycle so he can start pct within 3-5 days instead of 14.

[Razor]

I talked to b brian and he does set his up nicely. He does prop and e. prop for two weeks usually at 50 mg ed and then uses prop at theend of his cycle so he can start pct within 3-5 days instead of 14.

I had all my shit ready to go then I realized its not what I wanted to do.

Gear So something like this?

1- 4 Dbol 50 mg
1 – 4 Prop 50mg ED
1 – 8 enth 400 mg/wk
9 – 10 Prop 50 mg ED
Start PCT

[jasc]

I put a call in to Bbrian.. hopefully he'll pop in