when is self defense not self defense?

[gixxerboy1]

This is inspired by the Trayvone Martin thread. I'd like to keep that debate out of it. If we can

But when in your opinion is something self defense? If some one is verbally aggressive? What if you are verbally aggressive and the other person becomes physical? does it matter who started the confrontation/ Or is it self defense once you start loosing?

[Gaspari1255]

The line between self defense and assault is way too thin.

"I'd rather be tried by 12, then carried by 6."

[Nooomoto]

When you can't articulate your assailant's willingness, opportunity and means to cause your lethal harm...that is when it is NOT self defense. Per the law those three things have to be met in order to qualify it as self defense.

[gixxerboy1]

The line between self defense and assault is way too thin.

"I'd rather be tried by 12, then carried by 6."

i agree. I rather be alive.

but say i was walking behind you giving you shit. Not threatening just being annoying or an asshole. And you turned around and threatened me verbally. Should i be able to kill you legally?

[Gaspari1255]

i agree. I rather be alive.

but say i was walking behind you giving you shit. Not threatening just being annoying or an asshole. And you turned around and threatened me verbally. Should i be able to kill you legally?

These scenarios are very tricky and complex. I had one the other night working the strip club. Guy gets throw out for being too touchy/feely with the dancers. He's running his mouth, lifts his shirt up showing and bragging to me how he got shot three times, and said he had a piece in the car. When he started moving towards the car.....BAM...he didn't make it to the car because of my right hand. The police ended up coming, he was just out on bail, known piece of shit criminal, and I explained to them what happened. They searched his car- didn't find a weapon, but told me not to worry about it and they told his drunk ass to call a cab home or he was getting locked up for trespassing...


Every situation is different.

Was i justified in punching and tackling him? Yes
Would I have been justified if I shot him? Probably not unless his weapon was visible and directly threatening me.

[MickeyKnox]

i agree. I rather be alive.

but say i was walking behind you giving you shit. Not threatening just being annoying or an asshole. And you turned around and threatened me verbally. Should i be able to kill you legally?

only if you could prove you felt your life was in immediate danger. so, if you were saying "hey asshle i'm going to kick your head in and kill you" but you had no visible weapon and i was in front of you and could run away easily..then i would not be able to prove my life was in immediate danger.

[gixxerboy1]

I agree with what you did and probably would have done the same.
Now lets say this. You do that and he had a gun in his back pocket. He goes down when you hit him. But pulls it and shoots you. He he justified cause its self defense since you hit him? Even though he instigated it?

[gixxerboy1]

only if you could prove you felt your life was in immediate danger. so, if you were saying "hey asshle i'm going to kick your head in and kill you" but you had no visible weapon and i was in front of you and could run away easily..then i would not be able to prove my life was in immediate danger.

The laws in some states say you dont have to run away you can stand your ground.

[MickeyKnox]

The laws in some states say you dont have to run away you can stand your ground.

i'm not suggesting that you must runaway. but if that's an option, i guarantee you'll be asked why you didn't exercise it. however, playing devils advocate, you could answer that you were so intimidated you froze. you must be able to give a reasonable explanation to inflict bodily harm, or worse deadly force, on an individual. your "I"s must be dotted and your "T"s crossed.

[Lemonada8]

I think that first the 'victim' should try to get away, and if a chase ensues and you cant get away, then the 'attacker' makes a physical attempt to harm, then whatever happens would be self defense.

I dont believe that any verbal use of words at all, can be considered an attack worthy of physical violence.

As for the 'stand your ground" that should be only on your own personal property where it would also include tresspassing by the 'attacker' to get at the 'victim'. There are too many loopholes with the stand your ground, which can lead to more violence and where the law cant step in because of that law.

its a trick situitation thats for sure, but i think that those laws should be relooked at and revised.

[Hazard]

If someone gives me shit.... i"ll give them shit back. Idc what the law says..... if they show a threatening posture I'm hitting first. If they are approaching me fast.... I'm hitting first.

If it's just a verbal fight then I wont take it physical until I feel like they are going to.

As far as "running away"..... I would say yeah you should probably take the high road and WALK away lol..... if they keep following you then beat their ass.

~Haz~

[gonzo6183]

Check this out for an interesting situation that happened here in Oz a week or 2 back. The Leb being interviewed in claiming to be the "victim" when in fact the leb was the one that jump out of his car and ran over to threaten/intimidate the old guy, old go reacted in what we believe to be pro active self defence (a big leb with tats comes running at your car yelling that is the start of an assult) old guy reacts and defends himself now the leb claims to be the victim.

Check it out its a good laugh

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/84...h-up-explained

Gonzo

[jimmyinkedup]

I think that first the 'victim' should try to get away, and if a chase ensues and you cant get away, then the 'attacker' makes a physical attempt to harm, then whatever happens would be self defense. Some may say all this might accomplish is you getting shot or stabbed in the back

I dont believe that any verbal use of words at all, can be considered an attack worthy of physical violence. Agree

As for the 'stand your ground" that should be only on your own personal property where it would also include tresspassing by the 'attacker' to get at the 'victim'. There are too many loopholes with the stand your ground, which can lead to more violence and where the law cant step in because of that law.
On Personal property this should be a given imo
its a trick situitation thats for sure, but i think that those laws should be relooked at and revised.

I honestly dont knoe the letter of the law when it comes to "stand your ground".
It is a tough call at times but if someone brandishes a weapon and comes at you "running" should not be viewd as the solution - what so now we are back to natural selection and survival of the fittest - literally! *L*
Also I think if someone is physically attacking you you have the right to use deadly force to protect yourself.

[gonzo6183]

If someone gives me shit.... i"ll give them shit back. Idc what the law says..... if they show a threatening posture I'm hitting first. If they are approaching me fast.... I'm hitting first.

If it's just a verbal fight then I wont take it physical until I feel like they are going to.

As far as "running away"..... I would say yeah you should probably take the high road and WALK away lol..... if they keep following you then beat their ass.

~Haz~

Perfect example in my video above

[tcw]

These scenarios are very tricky and complex. I had one the other night working the strip club. Guy gets throw out for being too touchy/feely with the dancers. He's running his mouth, lifts his shirt up showing and bragging to me how he got shot three times, and said he had a piece in the car. When he started moving towards the car.....BAM...he didn't make it to the car because of my right hand. The police ended up coming, he was just out on bail, known piece of shit criminal, and I explained to them what happened. They searched his car- didn't find a weapon, but told me not to worry about it and they told his drunk ass to call a cab home or he was getting locked up for trespassing...


Every situation is different.

Was i justified in punching and tackling him? Yes
Would I have been justified if I shot him? Probably not unless his weapon was visible and directly threatening me.

I've been in those situations too.

Now...let's say loud-mouth drunk actually gets the jump on you...He throws a right hook---nails you right on the chin--you go down---you're dazed and confused---and numb nuts jumps on top of you and proceeds to pound your face into hamburger meat (because you remind him of the guy who stole his x-wife away).

You manage to get to your .380 belly gun...and unload the clip in his gut. He dies on the scene. BUT WAITE A MINUTE...you're 6.3', 225lbs---he's only 5.8 and 180lbs. ? ? ? ?

You're bigger than he is...and his family WANTS TO KNOW..."why did you shoot my poor innocent boy???"

There are no witnesses...only you and the dead guy.

NOW...what's the scoop?



Now's where the investigation starts. IF you are law-enfor***ent, the law will favor your testimony and since there are no witnesses---you will be cleared.

However, the average citizen will go through HELL in proving his innocence.

Thats the Law!

[tcw]

No...in that case---the dude who went down and then pulled a gun will probably be convicted of assault with a deadly weapon---drunk and disorderly---possible 2nd degree murder charges, etc.

When the drunk (or anyone) was told to leave (private property)---he has to go. I've seen bouncers throw out numerous idiots and even knock the chit out of a few of them---and they tried to sue---but courts have ruled in favor of the Bar's and Bouncers.

When you are told to leave private property by an employee (particularly by security)---you must leave. Other wise the cops come and haul your arse to jail (and they might even give you an arse whipping in the process---Cops don't like drunks---particularly obnoxious ones at at bars).

So therefore---if you are in violation of a CRIMINAL LAW --- best not to try anything---else you might get shot and have no case against anyone.

I've been thrown out of places where i did nothing wrong--- but i was smart enough not to challenge security---especially when there are 3 of them---and only one of me. If i would have knocked one of those fvkcers out---they could have shot me dead---no charges---case dismissed.

I agree with what you did and probably would have done the same.
Now lets say this. You do that and he had a gun in his back pocket. He goes down when you hit him. But pulls it and shoots you. He he justified cause its self defense since you hit him? Even though he instigated it?

[Flagg]

There is no fine line.

Self defence is preventing harm being visited on your person.

Assault is knowingly going out with the sole intent of harming someone.

How can anyone even debate that there is a "fine line"?

Some people just need an excuse to hurt someone and there are too many of these pricks polluting society.

[JD250]

Every state has laws pertaining to this question, you better know your states laws. Here you actually have to try and get away from the situation. Personally I think it's wise to try and avoid trouble even if your not at fault, but if you keep jacking with me you'll be looking down the barrel of a .45 and if you are brandishing a weapon and jacking with me I will kill you deader than shit. I know how I would react in most situations....do you? If you carry concealed you should find a good lawyer and pay him for an hour of his time so you know EXACTLY how to respond if something does happen, if he's a decent lawyer the first thing he'll say is "never talk to the cops" that's his job, he can do the talking later after he has all the facts. Nobody has ever talked their way OUT of trouble.

[Shol'va]

The line between self defense and assault is way too thin.

"I'd rather be tried by 12, then carried by 6."

I'd just be happy to be in the presence of a "Hung Jury"....sorry guys couldn't help myself....lol

[songdog]

Depends wat state you are in here in NY thanks to the Demacrats if you kill someone even in self defence you better get a good lawyer.And expect to spend 10k easy.Happen to a friend of mine a guy went to pull a gun.But my friend knew wat was up and was ready and pulled his 1st.Even though he didnt shoot and this guy stalked my friends girl and the police were informed.They tryed to throw the book at my friend.He spent over 10k and still lost his guns for a year.Just think wat wouldve happen if he didnt have deep pockets.

[SEOINAGE]

I agree with what you did and probably would have done the same.
Now lets say this. You do that and he had a gun in his back pocket. He goes down when you hit him. But pulls it and shoots you. He he justified cause its self defense since you hit him? Even though he instigated it?

Of course he wouldn't be justified in that situation.

[lovbyts]

The line between self defense and assault is way too thin.

"I'd rather be tried by 12, then carried by 6."

I love that saying and it's so true. If it's verbal you can walk away unless the person is telling you they are going to pull a knife, gun or? and do you physical harm or kill you, at this point I think you can protect yourself but not shoot the person unless they go for a weapon or try to physically attack you.

Gix, why are you trying so hard to justify the mass media hype and go along with the mob mentality without or before knowing the facts? Dont get caught up with the rest of the brainless mod who care nothing about the facts and only want revenge for??? Step back and take a breath. Forget about how you FEEL and start looking at facts. NO black, No white/Hispanic, no age difference.

At what point would YOU have shot him? Forget what you THINK you would have done or what you think lead up to it. YOU are on the ground, broken nose, he is on top of you pounding your head. You can not get him off of you. Do you just lay there and wait for him to stop hoping he wont kill you or??? No you end up using anything that is available to you to end it. You dont lay there and try to decide what to use. Hmmm maybe I can reach a stick or rock or??? You know you have your gun so you use it. That's how it works.

[sergio.x]

This is inspired by the Trayvone Martin thread. I'd like to keep that debate out of it. If we can

But when in your opinion is something self defense? If some one is verbally aggressive? What if you are verbally aggressive and the other person becomes physical? does it matter who started the confrontation/ Or is it self defense once you start loosing?

It's always usually the ones who got the most to prove who are the loudest. Myself and my teammates at my mma gym are all very humble and even when someone trys to start with us we just keep walking.

But, if someone is physically touching you or getting aggressive with me, my friend(if he cant defend himself) or girlfriend, then obviously a man must do something.


But like I said, it's always the ones who got the most to prove who act the toughest, same way the guys who never get laid always brag about getting girls.

[marcus300]

There are many areas and circumstances what come under the self defence umbrella and each one should be judged solely on the circumstances and threats being made. The law in the UK states the force used must be necessary and proportionate to the threats being made. What we class as necessary may be something different in the eyes of the law but without doubt a person under serious threat should never be punished because it would serve no purpose and this is what the courts look at.

Many phrases are used within the court setting and one is " morally involuntary", he could not help doing as he did, although his conduct was not truly involuntary because he still had control over his body but these statements are used frequently to justify some form of self defence. Courts always ask under self defence circumstance what was your routes of escape and do you have a reasonable explanation for committing what would otherwise be a crime. If there is reasonable belief of serious threat and the danger must objectively exist then its hard for any court to convict but again there are many areas to self defence.

[SEOINAGE]

I love that saying and it's so true. If it's verbal you can walk away unless the person is telling you they are going to pull a knife, gun or? and do you physical harm or kill you, at this point I think you can protect yourself but not shoot the person unless they go for a weapon or try to physically attack you.

Gix, why are you trying so hard to justify the mass media hype and go along with the mob mentality without or before knowing the facts? Dont get caught up with the rest of the brainless mod who care nothing about the facts and only want revenge for??? Step back and take a breath. Forget about how you FEEL and start looking at facts. NO black, No white/Hispanic, no age difference.

At what point would YOU have shot him? Forget what you THINK you would have done or what you think lead up to it. YOU are on the ground, broken nose, he is on top of you pounding your head. You can not get him off of you. Do you just lay there and wait for him to stop hoping he wont kill you or??? No you end up using anything that is available to you to end it. You dont lay there and try to decide what to use. Hmmm maybe I can reach a stick or rock or??? You know you have your gun so you use it. That's how it works.

Its hard to make a judgement call based on what you hear in the media, and not knowing what really happened. But if I was getting my head slammed into the ground and couldn't get out of it any other way, whether by one person or more overpowering me, and thought my life was in danger I would shoot too. Would you shoot him if it was a family member getting stomped into the ground?

[Tigershark]

I believe self defense is only allowed when you feel your life is in immediate danger. At my job deadly forced is authorized only when we feel someone will harm our life or that of the public. If I am doing a transport and someone tries to escape unless they are attempting to kill me or a public citizen there is nothing I can do. Example if they just run I can not shoot them. However if they try to stab me or they are escaping and try to kill someone during the escape then I can shoot. Otherwise if they just run all I can do is chase them or use a tazer. Otherwise my hands are tied.

[gixxerboy1]

Gix, why are you trying so hard to justify the mass media hype and go along with the mob mentality without or before knowing the facts? Dont get caught up with the rest of the brainless mod who care nothing about the facts and only want revenge for??? Step back and take a breath. Forget about how you FEEL and start looking at facts. NO black, No white/Hispanic, no age difference.

At what point would YOU have shot him? Forget what you THINK you would have done or what you think lead up to it. YOU are on the ground, broken nose, he is on top of you pounding your head. You can not get him off of you. Do you just lay there and wait for him to stop hoping he wont kill you or??? No you end up using anything that is available to you to end it. You dont lay there and try to decide what to use. Hmmm maybe I can reach a stick or rock or??? You know you have your gun so you use it. That's how it works.

This thread was seriously not about that but just in general. Honestly cause yes i have gotten in fights or talked shit to people and i live in Florida. So at what point is someone legally allowed to kill me makes me wonder now. Thats why i started this thread.

As far as the question you asked me. I wouldn't have killed him. I have gotten beaten up before. I have beaten people up before. My nose has be broken. Most of us would be dead if every time we started to win a fight someone could shoot us. I honestly dont get when everything has to get elevated to my life was in danger or i had to kill them in self defense. not everyone that hits you wants to kill you. You dont need to kill someone to protect yourself. Sometimes you just need to except it and taking an ass beating like a man, (by you i dont mean you personally lovbytes)

[gixxerboy1]

Also i if i shot an unarmed guy i would expect to be arrested. I'm not talking if someone was breaking into my house.

[rockinred]

This thread was seriously not about that but just in general. Honestly cause yes i have gotten in fights or talked shit to people and i live in Florida. So at what point is someone legally allowed to kill me makes me wonder now. Thats why i started this thread.

As far as the question you asked me. I wouldn't have killed him. I have gotten beaten up before. I have beaten people up before. My nose has be broken. Most of us would be dead if every time we started to win a fight someone could shoot us. I honestly dont get when everything has to get elevated to my life was in danger or i had to kill them in self defense. not everyone that hits you wants to kill you. You dont need to kill someone to protect yourself. Sometimes you just need to except it and taking an ass beating like a man, (by you i dont mean you personally lovbytes)

Amen to this. For those who have been on both sides of giving and taking a beating. This subject becomes very controversial. Especially when it has happened a lot. I'm gonna say very, very few cases in a fist fight warrant a gun.imo Last year I was at a concert and my friend and I got in a fight with a few other dudes and my friend got knocked out sick by a guy much more fierce than the kid on this story could have did to the other guy and when it was all said and done with the cops it turned out to be a disagreement as always and we all squashed it. There is no way that dudes intent was to beat on him till he was dead, but to win the fight. To think that other guy should have been shot or deserved it because he knocked my bro out violently is a horrible, horrible outcome.

[gixxerboy1]

Amen to this. For those who have been on both sides of giving and taking a beating. This subject becomes very controversial. Especially when it has happened a lot. I'm gonna say very, very few cases in a fist fight warrant a gun.imo Last year I was at a concert and my friend and I got in a fight with a few other dudes and my friend got knocked out sick by a guy much more fierce than the kid on this story could have did to the other guy and when it was all said and done with the cops it turned out to be a disagreement as always and we all squashed it. There is no way that dudes intent was to beat on him till he was dead, but to win the fight. To think that other guy should have been shot or deserved it because he knocked my bro out violently is a horrible, horrible outcome.

Thats where im at. What happened to getting your butt kicked but living to fight another day.
There have been members here that have talked about kids shooting each other and how they all turn to weapons. That in our day we used our fist and everyone lived. Now it seems like as soon as you may loose or feel threatened its shoot first.

[zaggahamma]

I agree with what you did and probably would have done the same.
Now lets say this. You do that and he had a gun in his back pocket. He goes down when you hit him. But pulls it and shoots you. He he justified cause its self defense since you hit him? Even though he instigated it?

in this scenario
imo, you can point the gun but not shoot UNLESS he comes at you still
you question in post # 4 ..the answer is easily no

[tcw]

Amen to this. For those who have been on both sides of giving and taking a beating. This subject becomes very controversial. Especially when it has happened a lot. I'm gonna say very, very few cases in a fist fight warrant a gun.imo Last year I was at a concert and my friend and I got in a fight with a few other dudes and my friend got knocked out sick by a guy much more fierce than the kid on this story could have did to the other guy and when it was all said and done with the cops it turned out to be a disagreement as always and we all squashed it. There is no way that dudes intent was to beat on him till he was dead, but to win the fight. To think that other guy should have been shot or deserved it because he knocked my bro out violently is a horrible, horrible outcome.

Obviously you guys have never seen a real fight...well i have.

I've seen ppl get hurt...permanent damage from shots to the head, throat, joints, broken arms-hands-knees, etc. Its not a pretty site. In fact, i've seen ppl shot dead and i would venture to say its a better way to go then getting your head kicked so many times, that your brains swells up and explodes inside your skull cavity from the built up pressure.

Nope...you can very easily get hurt in a fist fight...and easily killed (if the other guy knows what's he's doing or just gets lucky-or unlucky depending on your perspective).

Just ask Muhammad Ali if Punches can affect your brain and your quality of life as you grow older....see what he says about taking a good shot.

[rockinred]

Obviously you guys have never seen a real fight...well i have.

I've seen ppl get hurt...permanent damage from shots to the head, throat, joints, broken arms-hands-knees, etc. Its not a pretty site. In fact, i've seen ppl shot dead and i would venture to say its a better way to go then getting your head kicked so many times, that your brains swells up and explodes inside your skull cavity from the built up pressure.

Nope...you can very easily get hurt in a fist fight...and easily killed (if the other guy knows what's he's doing or just gets lucky-or unlucky depending on your perspective).

Just ask Muhammad Ali if Punches can affect your brain and your quality of life as you grow older....see what he says about taking a good shot.

Here we go with a super tough guy that can kill a guy with his bear hands and wears tap out shirts and trains mma right? Yeah, ok we've never been or seen any kind of fights like you have and none fo them were REAL.

I in no way chimed in this thread to talk about my fights. I will say that I am almost 40 yrs old and I have been in more fights than I can count and have seen twice as many as I have been in. I had a gun pulled on me before and only because the guy was losing and in no way was I going to kill him, he just was crazy and in that fight where a bunch of us got in, a guy lost his eye. Now that is the worst in all my time that fights have gone. So, in your reasoning everyone of those fights someone should have had an opportunity to shoot the other guy whether it was me getting shot or me shooting the other guy. That is just cowardly in my opinion.

I have also been to war and have seen very severe violence and realize how tragic it is to take a life. Anyone who believes they have a write to shoot someone for punching them clearly has no respect for life or has never even seen or dealt with a tragic death.

I was also in boxing as a youth from 12-16, so I know what punches can do and how much they hurt. Still all this is pointless. I am sure that you are the toughest and roughest dude and the people that you have seen fight would clearly have killed me or my friends if I were to fight with them with their bare hands and my only recourse would be a gun. (sarcasm).

No one ever said that fights aren't violent or scary. What a few of us believe here are that not everyone deserves to be shot over a simple fist fight and interpretations of the law might allow this. Hence the controversy here. The ones who push so aggressively for guns for protection are people that can't fight and want to protect themselves. Not everyone can fight which is a good thing, so I don't know if I disagree that we shouldn't be aloud to carry for protection, but still it is a tough call.

[tcw]

You were in the Military....and you don't know how dangerous a fist fight can be ? ? ?

bah ahahaa.

Don't tell me...you were in the Navy Right?


Dude...don't patronize me. From what it sounds like...you haven't been in combat...and if so...it was probably as a witness or medic....not infantry that's for sure. I ran a platoon as an officer in the US Marine Corp. I've seen guys get fvcked up in fist fights...permanently. Never mind what happened to them from gun shots, knifes, etc.

Now...you want to dispute that evidence on a website forum?

I was pointing out the facts (from my experience) of what can happen in a fist fight. Judging from your comments above...you sound like some bar-room brawler rather than a soldier (at least not like any soldier i served with).

What branch were you in?

Did you learn combat Martial Arts? Did you go to boot camp or skip that?

What hand-to-hand combat techniques did you learn?

Come on...tell us the truth....you were never in the Military....else you wouldn't say things like you did above.

IN case you didn't learn it in "the Military"...you can kill someone with a strike to a vital area...and yes it does happen. People are killed in fists fights from falling on the ground...DUH?

Don't take a fist fight lightly...especially at your age. You could incur some major damage.

And yes...i've seen death---first hand. Some guys never get over it...others have no problem with it...and one of the ways YOU GET over takin life is this: Its either you....or the other guy....which do you want?

Its that simple...and that hard.

Self-Defense Laws were written at the expense of someone else's misery.

Get it?

Laws are written based on CASE EXPERIENCE.

Do you know the law of self defense in your state? That means someone suffered in order for a Law to be passed. Do you know which case was used to pass the self-defense law in you state...and why it was passed?

I know you don't know the answer to this...else you wouldn't be spouting off like you are.

NOW....getting back to the point. Should you shoot someone who's beating the chit out you ?

Answer: ...it all depends.

PS.
And don't be answering for the entire forum audience with that Patronizing attitude. You don't know what "most of us" would prefer...and i can probably tell you this. Most guys on a Steroid forum...would probably like to throw a fist instead of pulling a gun.

Good Luck Military Man!

Here we go with a super tough guy that can kill a guy with his bear hands and wears tap out shirts and trains mma right? Yeah, ok we've never been or seen any kind of fights like you have and none fo them were REAL.

I in no way chimed in this thread to talk about my fights. I will say that I am almost 40 yrs old and I have been in more fights than I can count and have seen twice as many as I have been in. I had a gun pulled on me before and only because the guy was losing and in no way was I going to kill him, he just was crazy and in that fight where a bunch of us got in, a guy lost his eye. Now that is the worst in all my time that fights have gone. So, in your reasoning everyone of those fights someone should have had an opportunity to shoot the other guy whether it was me getting shot or me shooting the other guy. That is just cowardly in my opinion.

I have also been to war and have seen very severe violence and realize how tragic it is to take a life. Anyone who believes they have a write to shoot someone for punching them clearly has no respect for life or has never even seen or dealt with a tragic death.

I was also in boxing as a youth from 12-16, so I know what punches can do and how much they hurt. Still all this is pointless. I am sure that you are the toughest and roughest dude and the people that you have seen fight would clearly have killed me or my friends if I were to fight with them with their bare hands and my only recourse would be a gun. (sarcasm).

No one ever said that fights aren't violent or scary. What a few of us believe here are that not everyone deserves to be shot over a simple fist fight and interpretations of the law might allow this. Hence the controversy here. The ones who push so aggressively for guns for protection are people that can't fight and want to protect themselves. Not everyone can fight which is a good thing, so I don't know if I disagree that we shouldn't be aloud to carry for protection, but still it is a tough call.

[jimmyinkedup]

Amen to this. For those who have been on both sides of giving and taking a beating. This subject becomes very controversial. Especially when it has happened a lot. I'm gonna say very, very few cases in a fist fight warrant a gun.imo Last year I was at a concert and my friend and I got in a fight with a few other dudes and my friend got knocked out sick by a guy much more fierce than the kid on this story could have did to the other guy and when it was all said and done with the cops it turned out to be a disagreement as always and we all squashed it. There is no way that dudes intent was to beat on him till he was dead, but to win the fight. To think that other guy should have been shot or deserved it because he knocked my bro out violently is a horrible, horrible outcome.

Hey red - good to see you around bro.
Hope all is good.

[JD250]

If people want to talk shit and start a fight so they can take an ass whoopin...whatever....but I don't act that way and if you **** with me even if your just looking for a good fist fight I will shoot you fvcking dead.......think about that the next time you're fvcking with someone........an armed society is a polite society.

[rockinred]

Hey red - good to see you around bro.
Hope all is good.

What's up my brother. Always around just quiet for the most part. Occasionally get motivated for a discussion or debate in the lounge ... Good to see you to bro!

[rockinred]

You were in the Military....and you don't know how dangerous a fist fight can be ? ? ?

bah ahahaa.

Don't tell me...you were in the Navy Right?


Dude...don't patronize me. From what it sounds like...you haven't been in combat...and if so...it was probably as a witness or medic....not infantry that's for sure. I ran a platoon as an officer in the US Marine Corp. I've seen guys get fvcked up in fist fights...permanently. Never mind what happened to them from gun shots, knifes, etc.

Now...you want to dispute that evidence on a website forum?

I was pointing out the facts (from my experience) of what can happen in a fist fight. Judging from your comments above...you sound like some bar-room brawler rather than a soldier (at least not like any soldier i served with).

What branch were you in?

Did you learn combat Martial Arts? Did you go to boot camp or skip that?

What hand-to-hand combat techniques did you learn?

Come on...tell us the truth....you were never in the Military....else you wouldn't say things like you did above.

IN case you didn't learn it in "the Military"...you can kill someone with a strike to a vital area...and yes it does happen. People are killed in fists fights from falling on the ground...DUH?

Don't take a fist fight lightly...especially at your age. You could incur some major damage.

And yes...i've seen death---first hand. Some guys never get over it...others have no problem with it...and one of the ways YOU GET over takin life is this: Its either you....or the other guy....which do you want?

Its that simple...and that hard.

Self-Defense Laws were written at the expense of someone else's misery.

Get it?

Laws are written based on CASE EXPERIENCE.

Do you know the law of self defense in your state? That means someone suffered in order for a Law to be passed. Do you know which case was used to pass the self-defense law in you state...and why it was passed?

I know you don't know the answer to this...else you wouldn't be spouting off like you are.

NOW....getting back to the point. Should you shoot someone who's beating the chit out you ?

Answer: ...it all depends.

PS.
And don't be answering for the entire forum audience with that Patronizing attitude. You don't know what "most of us" would prefer...and i can probably tell you this. Most guys on a Steroid forum...would probably like to throw a fist instead of pulling a gun.

Good Luck Military Man!

Look man, I am not going to get into a dick measuring contest here as far as the military goes. I was in the Army Rangers from 1992-1995. I was in Somalia and Haiti and deployed to many parts of the world. I was not a medic or a cook or in the Navy at all... but that's is really irrelevant. If you want to search my history posts you will know this is the truth.

You are the one who said that i never seen a real fight which is dumb. If Marine barrack fights constitute a REAL fight with blood and guts everywhere well then I guess I have never been in a Marine barracks fight to witness such violent fights as you suggested you are so experienced in. Come on seriously! lol, now your pretty funny.

Who really cares anyway. The whole point I started out saying is that I don't think a gun should be pulled on everyone that is losing a fight. So the rest of your stuff you have posted above is just a bunch of nonsense that I don't even follow your thought process. What's all this about patronizing. I said, I have seen death first hand it is not pretty and anyone thinking about shooting someone should think really hard. I have even lost a daughter and know the pains a parent goes through with a loss. It is no fvcking joke and people need to understand that! I am damn sure that zimmerman guy is rethinking every single step and wishes he never did that and if he could go back and change it he would.

Oh and by the way I was in the military and was a bar room brawler both while in and when I got out... so I don't know what the difference is that you are talking about. lol Right now I am a father and friend to most. I am just glad that I never shot anyone for punching me or was never shot for punching someone. So that's my beef... many good people make mistakes and deserve to live on. What's next they get to loud verbally or they made a physical move toward you and you had to shoot them. I am sure there are plenty that disagree with my take on that and that's ok. It is what it is. I have a right to an opinion like you do. But your opinion of me never being in a REAL fight is a joke of a joke nonetheless and pretty much shows how ignorant you are. Then going on to insult Navy dudes and others and claiming I wasn't in the military when I really was shows your true colors. The unit I was in is more elite and versed in combat than any straight Marine Infantry. So whatever... you really have no point as far as that goes.

[gixxerboy1]

Wow, im stepping out of this thread also. I cant believe so many people think its ok or are willing to kill each other. I'm just glad everyone isnt like this or i would have been killed many years ago.

[Hazard]

My view.....

I see nothing wrong with citizens being allowed to carry. People would think twice before mugging or fighting other people. With that said..... I don't agree with a bar fight turning into a shoot out at the OK Corral.

If I'm in a bar or anywhere else for that matter and I'm in a dispute with another man and we square off..... then so be it. Walk away when it's over win or lose. Now if I'm minding my own business and someone picks a fight with me for no reason..... whether it be random or someone just feels i'm an easy target..... then why shouldn't I be allowed to defend myself with a weapon? Hell..... IDC who you are..... you are never the toughest guy.

Why should a 150lbs man HAVE to square off with a 250lb man and take an ass beating? Not saying every small guy will..... but if one man is clearly an underdog..... wtf is he suppose to do. No I don't think he should shoot the guy unless he is attacked.....

~Haz~