Associate Member
i was told by a trainer the other day that not having a protein shake or a source of protein post workout that you might as well have not worked out?
is this true?
i mean i know the importance of having a protein shake pwo but not having one means the workout was a waste? i had a hard time believing that
Banned
Its important though, your in a catabolic state after a workout so you need protein and carbs after to fix this
Senior Member
That trainer is full of s**t It helps, but working out and lifting heavy weight is much more important. Belive me bro, been lifting on and off for 12 years and you will still build plenty of muscle if you miss a protein meal after your workout, but try and get some protein after if you can.
Knowledgeable Member
I have heard people say the same thing about having sex with a condom....somehow if a knockout fitness model was up for it as long as you used one I am sure they would reconsider the validity of their statement.
Banned
DittoOriginally Posted by JJ78
Knowledgeable Member
I think the point may be that if your gonna bust your ass, why not get every advantage out of it that you can, drinking a shake after a workout is a MUCH better idea than NOT drinking one afterwards.
Beach Bodybuilder ~Elite-Hall of Fame~
I suspect that the trainer, like many others, subscribes to the magic anabolic window from yesteryear! Get your diet right and it isn't an issue!
NO SOURCES GIVEN
Associate Member
Its scientifically proven that you will build more muscle mass and decrease more bodyfat by have a whey protein shake with carbs immediately PWO when compared to a placebo group that did neither.
Knowledgeable Member
^ ^ ^ this or at least its not nearly asbig of a deal. It's still a good idea to have a protein shake after working out but if you have a good diet it's not like your muscles will be starving for protein and not grow.
AR-Hall of Famer ~Diet Guru~
AR-Hall of Famer ~Diet Guru~
AR-Hall of Famer
Don't hire that trainer.
Pissing Excellence!
glad to see ya back around nark!
AR-Hall of Famer ~Diet Guru~
Thanks mate.
Couldn't log in for some reason. Changed my password today and it was good to go.
Senior Member
He was only partly right....I think if your a novice or just starting out then it wont make much of a difference either way as long as you have a solid diet to start with and are getting enough protein throughout the day...if you are more advanced then I would tend to agree that something as small as not having a post workout shake or at least a most workout meal could cause you to plateau. Post workout you are in an extreme catabolic state and your body is producing large amounts of cortisol...if you have a hard workout and then don't eat for three hours then your body will start to eat up muscle in order to protect it self.
Knowledgeable Member
So in your experience and opinion there is NO positive advantage to doing this?
VET
Yeah, scientifically proven by the supp companies.
Hitting your macros for the day is far more important than what you eat or don't eat directly after WO. Protein synthesis can last for almost 36 hrs and peaks at 24 hrs after WO so a PWO meal is of no more importance than any other meal eaten throughout the course of the day.
Senior Member
Its not really about hitting macros its about reducing cortisol, taking advantage of the massive gh release by the body, and creating an anabolic environment to allow growth. there is no denying the fact that a post workout meal or shake will yield better results its been proven time and time again! yes you can make muscle grow without it but it makes a world of difference! I am a strength coach and have seen amazing results with athletes who simply starting eating a breakfast within an hour upon waking and having a scoop of whey with some juice post workout....and I mean really big gains!
Some of the best results I get with athletes:
Breakfast: 6oz fish or 3 whole eggs / 1/2 cup cashews or pecans/ 1/3 cup blue berries
Post workout: 500ml grape juice / 30g whey protein
I have seen squats go up 40-60lbs in a matter of weeks just by simply making a slight change to their diet.
Associate Member
it's just plain fun to eat after a good W/O AND have a shake! this statement reflects the opinion of the poster only and in no way endorses this eating protocol as a proven way to gain more muscle..
AR-Hall of Famer ~Diet Guru~
This-->
I don't even include shakes in most of my clients' diet plans.
And, I'm yet to see anyone not get big and ripped.
Me personally, I can count the number of protein powder bottles I've gone through over the last 5 years on my finger tips.
Knowledgeable Member
how much better is the protein from real food compared to protein from a shake, whether it's whey or a blend? i guess real meat also gives you iron and creatine, but protein wise, how much more superior is it? i really like the convenience of a shake. i know i am just making the supps companies rich, but at least i dont have to cook, i dont have to wait, i dont have to chew! just gulp and i'm done.
Member
Well put and agree 100%.
VET
So it doesn't matter what your daily macro/cal intake is, all that matters is creating this magical anabolic environment directly after workout? And carbohydrates (actually insulin) blunt the release of natural GH, which is why the majority of our GH and biggest pulse is released when REM sleep is reached, not PWO.
You must be the trainer vikings88 was talking about.
Member
I gotta say it seems opinions change daily. What was preached as rule even here a year ago is now lambasted as bro science bullshit, so im at a loss. Im not sure anyone really knows a damn thing anymore. Hell I got no bragginng rights im nothing special. But what I do is basically follow the basic rules as best as I can. I eat every 3 hours, hit my macros, take my vitamins, do pwo shake, take bcaa inta workout, drink lots of water, take creatine, eat mostly whole foods, shakes pwo and casein before bed, get 8 hours sleep, juice according to guidlines and follow recommended pct........ I dont know what is working and what is bullshit but Im in the best shape of my life...Id rather go over than under I guess
Associate Member
No, its proven my medical journals by many exercise physiologists... Being that im about to grad with a degree in exerc phys I would know, if you want Ill pull up some studies
Yes meeting calorie requirements is important but if you were to have 2 subjects both on the same exact diet and one were to add a whey shake of roughly 20-30g mixed with carbs of similar amounts the subject taking the shake PWO will put on more muscle mass and lose more BF. This isnt bro science or any bullshit spewed by supplement companies, this is hard factual clinically proven studies.
Last edited by Sauced_Up; 04-20-2012 at 08:44 AM.
Associate Member
There is no real "better" protein, its better to look at is as whats best at this time. Depending on the type of food containing protein, that will dictate its digestion time and bio availability. Generally protein from food sources are slower digesting thus are better to eat throughout the day to keep protein synthesis and nitrogen levels high. The main usage of a whey protein shake is that its quickly absorbed by the body thus giving your body that immediate need for protein, thus increasing in nitrogen and switching the body from a catabolic state to anabolic. Such a scenario is either immediately upon waking in the morning when your body is starved or right after working out.
Member
Im sure we can agree it helps, but can you pull up some studies that show how much it helps? I beleive the advantage in small in comparison to hitting your macros for the day.
Productive Member
I still believe in the idea that your body is ready and primed to take on nutrients shortly after a workout. But, like anything people worry too much about the extremes, without accounting for balance. No PWO shake is going to make up for the lack of a solid diet the rest of the time. OTOH, I think there's something to be said for taking advantage of the PWO window as a good time to ingest a high quality meal of proteins and carbs.
Associate Member
Acute and long-term effects of resistance exercise with or without protein ingestion on muscle hypertrophy and gene expression
Juha J. Hulmi1 Contact Information, Vuokko Kovanen2, 3, Harri Selänne4, William J. Kraemer5, Keijo Häkkinen1 and Antti A. Mero1
(1) Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, P.O. Box 35, 40014 Jyväskylä, Finland
(2) Department of Health Sciences, University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland
(3) Finnish Centre for Interdisciplinary Gerontology (FCIG), University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland
(4) LIKES Research Center, Jyväskylä, Finland
(5) Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT, USA
Contact Information Juha J. Hulmi
Email: [email protected]
Received: 12 March 2008 Accepted: 2 June 2008 Published online: 27 July 2008
Introduction
One of the hallmarks of resistance training is an increase in muscle cross-sectional area and improved maximal force production, especially in previously untrained subjects (for a comprehensive review, see Wernbom et al. 2007). In addition to resistance training, protein ingestion may play an important role as a regulator of muscle mass and recovery from exercise. The timing of the nutrient intake seems to be also of importance. Nutrient intake before and/or immediately after a resistance exercise (RE) session may be more beneficial in terms of muscle protein anabolism than nutrient ingestion at other times such as in the morning and late evening at least 5 h before or after the workout (Cribb and Hayes 2006) or 2 h after the workout (Esmarck et al. 2001). Especially whey/milk protein supplementation may be advantageous for gaining muscle size (Andersen et al. 2005; Hartman et al. 2007) and improving muscle protein balance after a RE bout (Tipton et al. 2007; Wilkinson et al. 2007).
Fast recovery from RE-induced myofibrillar disruption (Gibala et al. 1995) is also important. Many molecular factors are important in the recovery process from exercise as well as in the regulation of muscle hypertrophy per se. Of these, myostatin, a well-known negative regulator of muscle size (McPherron et al. 1997) and proteins downstream to myostatin such as myogenic regulatory factors and cell-cycle kinases as well as their inhibitors all have been shown to be crucial (Charge and Rudnicki 2004; Kuang et al. 2006; McCroskery et al. 2003; Rios et al. 2002; Wagner 2005). A single heavy RE bout provides a high loading stimulus to skeletal muscle, from which complete recovery takes usually at least 2–4 days, while also affecting myostatin, myogenic regulatory factors, and other cell-cycle related factors (Hulmi et al. 2007; Kim et al. 2007; Mascher et al. 2008). However, it is not known whether high-quality protein such as whey (Ha and Zemel 2003) intake close to a resistance exercise modifies exercise-induced gene expression responses both acutely and after some months of systematic training.
In the present study we investigated whether supplementation of high-quality whey protein has additive effects compared to normal dietary intakes only, when ingested in conjunction with RE. The rational for the timed addition of a high-quality protein such as whey, is the possibility that it could improve the muscle protein synthesis response to exercise without interfering with the response to normal food. Indeed, recent results in an acute design by Paddon-Jones et al. (2005) suggest that an essential amino acid and carbohydrate supplement does not acutely interfere with the normal muscle protein synthesis response to a mixed meal. Whey is considered to be a high-quality protein source containing large amounts of essential amino acids, important in the protein synthesis (Borsheim et al. 2002), and also fast acting compared to many other protein sources such as casein (Boirie et al. 1997). It is thus possible that addition of whey, when used chronically in conjunction with RE may be more anabolic for skeletal muscle than ingesting only normal mixed meals throughout the day. Therefore, the purpose of this investigation was to examine long-term adaptations from resistance training in terms of whole-muscle size, force production, and muscle hypertrophy related gene expression that may occur when high-quality protein is added to a “normal diet” both immediately before and after each resistance exercise session. To the best of our knowledge, this is also the first study combining both acute and long-term gene expression responses with nutrition and cross-sectional area and maximal force of trained muscles. We hypothesized that whey protein intake immediately before and after a resistance exercise bout has both acute and long-term effects on possible resistance exercise-induced myostatin and cell-cycle related gene expression responses and this timed protein ingestion also increases whole-muscle hypertrophy response from 21 weeks of resistance training.
Materials and methods
Subjects
The subjects were randomly assigned after control testing sessions to either the whey protein group (n = 13), placebo group (n = 14) or to control group (n = 11). There was no RT in the controls but they continued their habitual activity such as jogging, swimming or ball-games. The number of subjects who completed the study was 31. The average age in the three groups were as follows: protein: 25.2 ± 5.2 years (n = 11), placebo: 27.2 ± 3.0 years (n = 10) and control: 24.9 ± 2.7 years (n = 10).
All the subjects were examined by a physician and none of them had medical problems that would confound the results of this investigation. All subjects were also free from neuromuscular dysfunction and thus were cleared to perform heavy RT. None of the subjects had prior heavy RT experience. Prior to the investigation, each subject was informed about the experimental design and the associated risks and discomforts that may occur. Each then signed an informed consent document to participate in the study, which was approved by the local Ethics Committee of the University and was done in accordance with the Declaration of Helsinki.
Design
This investigation examined long-term adaptations of adding high-quality protein to a “normal diet” (including no nutritional supplements) to increase its bioactivity. Because both acute and long-term molecular responses of resistance exercise without and especially with protein have not been carefully studied, several different muscle hypertrophy related gene transcript levels were examined both acutely after a single RE bout but also after long-term RT consisting of more than 40 RE workouts with either protein or placebo supplementation. The study design included a control group and all measurements were performed always at the same time to exclude the effects of biopsy sampling or effects of time of a year or daily variations (Sedliak et al. 2007; Vissing et al. 2005). The total duration of the present study was 23 weeks from which the first 2 weeks was a control period in which no experimental RT was carried out but the subjects maintained their normal recreational activities. All of the measurements (muscle force, muscle cross-sectional area, anthropometry and muscle biopsies) were preceded by at least 3 days of rest from physical activity. The experimental design is depicted in Fig. 1.
During the 21-week-RT period, total-body heavy RE workouts were carried out twice a week. A minimum of 2 days of rest was required between the two sessions each week. All training sessions were supervised by experienced trainers making sure that proper techniques and progression was used in each exercise (Kraemer et al. 2002). The training program was especially focused on knee extensors since the analysis of muscle cross-sectional area and muscle biopsies were obtained from the knee extensor muscle (i.e., vastus lateralis). The following exercises were used in each training session: two exercises for the leg extensor muscles, bilateral leg press and bilateral knee extension and one exercise for the leg flexors, bilateral knee flexion. The RT program also included exercises for the other main muscle groups of the body: chest and shoulders, upper back, trunk extensors and flexors, upper arms, ankle extensors, and hip abductors and adductors. Both leg press and knee extension exercises were thought to activate especially the VL muscle and it is the muscle in which the biopsy was taken. These exercises, previously utilized by our laboratory, produce somewhat larger hypertrophy responses in the VL and VM muscles compared to the other two quadriceps muscles during a comparable 21-week-RT program (Häkkinen et al. 2001).
Either 15 g of whey isolate protein (Protarmor 907 LSI, Armor Proteins, Brittany, France, with minimal lactose and fat) dissolved in 250 ml of water or an equivalent amount of non-energetic placebo was ingested immediately before and after each bout of RE in the gym (Fig. 1). Whey is the most popular protein supplement by those resistance training and it effectively increases net muscle total protein synthesis and balance when consumed before or after RE bout at about similar doses used in this study (Tipton et al. 2007). The essential amino-acid composition of the protein drink (15 g) was as follows: histidine (0.2 g), isoleucine (1.0), leucine (1.7), lycine (1.4), methionine (0.4), phenylalanine (0.5), threonine (1.0), tryptophan (0.2) and valine (0.8). The drinks were provided for the subjects in a double-blind fashion. The drinks were made in our own laboratory by the personnel who coded the drinks for the training supervisors. Drinks contained exotic fruit, trinatriumsitrate, acesulfame-K, xanthane gum and betacarotene for flavor, viscosity and color. The protein and placebo supplements looked and tasted as identical as possible.
Dietary intake of the subjects was registered with dietary diaries for 3 days before the first biopsy day at the start of the study, on the biopsy day, and the day thereafter (pre, 5 days overall), after 10.5 weeks (mid, 4 days) and again before the 21st week biopsy (post 21 weeks, 3 days before, and on the biopsy day). All of the diaries were analyzed using the Micro Nutrica nutrient-analysis software version 3.11 (The Social Insurance Institution of Finland). The subjects in either protein or placebo group did not eat anything 60 min before and 30 min after experimental exercise workouts during RT period. Food restriction during only these time periods was utilized to ascertain whether addition of a whey, considered fast acting and high-quality protein, has an additive effect even if the normal meal ingestion is not forbidden ~2–3 h before and after each RE bout.
Muscle cross-sectional area and anthropometry
The muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the right quadriceps femoris muscle was determined before and after the 21-week-period from both RT and control subjects using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) (GE Signa Exite HD 1.5 T) at a local MRI center (Keski-Suomen Magneettikuvaus). During the measurement, the subjects’ legs were kept parallel and strapped with a belt and a special cast designed to standardize the measurement as well as possible. Four axial-plane MRI scans were taken. The first image was taken 4 cm above the midway between the patella and greater trochanter (image1) and thereafter the next three scans were taken at 2, 4 and 6 cm towards patella (images2–4). All the MRI images were analyzed by the same experienced researcher with OsiriX (version 2.7.5) software.
After an overnight fasting, body mass (kg) and fat percentage were measured. Body fat was measured with skinfolds (biceps and triceps brachii, subscapular and iliac crest) (Durnin and Womersley 1974) by the same research assistant each time. Pearson Product correlations from control measurements spaced 2 weeks apart (n = 8 for MRI and n = 38 for skinfolds) showed high reproducibility for the measurement of quadriceps femoris CSA (r > 0.96) and for body fat percentage (r = 0.97).
Muscle biopsies
Muscle biopsies were obtained 0.5 h before and 1 and 48 h after the RE session before RT as well as 4–5 days after the last RE workout from 21 weeks of RT (Fig. 1). The 1 h post-biopsy time point was selected to represent fast responses of RE bout and the 48 h post-time point the more delayed responses. We wanted to minimize the effects of the last exercise workout and the protein ingestion on the post-training biopsy. Therefore, the biopsy after RT was taken 4–5 days after the last exercise workout. Biopsies were taken from the VL muscle with a 5-mm Bergström biopsy needle, midway between the patella and greater trochanter. The pre-RE biopsy and the 48 h post-RE biopsies were taken from the right leg. Avoiding any residual effects of the pre-biopsy, the 1 h post-RE biopsy was taken from the left leg and the 48 h biopsy was taken 2 cm above the previous biopsy location. The 21-week-biopsy was taken from the same leg as the baseline biopsy (right). The muscle sample was cleaned of any visible connective and adipose tissue as well as blood. It was then immediately frozen in liquid nitrogen and stored at −80°C for future mRNA analysis.
Results
Daily nutrient intake
There were no statistically significant differences in the total absolute or body weight adjusted energy consumption or any macronutrient (protein, carbohydrate or fat) intake between the protein and placebo conditions at weeks 0, 10.5 or 21 (P > 0.23) (Table 2). The subjects habitually consumed protein 1.5 ± 0.4 g/kg in the protein group and 1.4 ± 0.4 g/kg in the placebo group (assessed via an average of all food diaries: week 0, week 10.5 and week 21) (P = 0.71).
Dietary diaries were kept at week 0 (3 days before the biopsy), on the biopsy day, and the day thereafter. At week 21 the dietary diary was recorded during the 3 days before the biopsy and the biopsy day. Week 10.5 also included a 4-day diary. E energy, g/kg bw g per kg body mass, Prot protein, CHO carbohydrates. P value is statistical difference between the protein and placebo groups. There were no differences between weeks 0, 10.5 and 21 in the macronutrient consumption in either protein or placebo groups (P > 0.05)
Anthropometric measurements
Body mass increased significantly during RT in both protein and placebo groups (P < 0.01) while there was no change in the control group (P = 0.65) (Table 1). Body fat% did not change significantly in any group (P > 0.86).
Muscle CSA
The cross-sectional area (CSA) of the quadriceps femoris (QF) increased significantly after 21 weeks of RT in both protein and placebo groups (P < 0.01) but not in the control group (P > 0.05) (Fig. 2a). The change of the average QF CSA was higher in the protein group (9.9 ± 7.4%) compared to placebo (7.5 ± 4.8%) but the difference did not reach statistical significance (P > 0.05). CSA of the VL muscle increased in all four axial-plane images in both protein and placebo groups (P < 0.001) but not in the control group (P > 0.25) (Fig. 2b). The average increase in the VL muscle (VL1–4) was significantly higher in the protein group (relative increase: 14.8 ± 6.8%) compared to the placebo (11.2 ± 5.6%) (P < 0.05). In VI, VM and RF there were no significant differences in the CSA change between the protein and placebo groups in any of the CSA images (P > 0.05).
Muscle force
Maximal bilateral 1 RM leg extension, bilateral isometric bench press and unilateral isometric knee extension and flexion increased significantly and similarly during the 21-week-training period in both the protein and placebo groups (P ≤ 0.05) (Table 3). However, compared to the control group (8.0 ± 9.5%, P > 0.05), isometric leg extension increased significantly only in the protein group (a relative increase of 24.3 ± 12.3%, difference between the groups P = 0.02), whereas the increase was not significant in the placebo group (19.3 ± 15.5%, P = 0.23).
Muscle mRNA levels
There was no change in any measured mRNA values in the control group at any time point (P > 0.05) (Figs. 3, 4). A significant 31% decrease in myostatin mRNA was observed 1 h after the RE bout but only in the placebo condition (P = 0.02), not in the protein group (P > 0.69) (Fig. 3). The receptor of myostatin, activin receptor IIb mRNA, decreased in both protein and placebo groups after the RE bout being significant at 48 h after RE in both placebo and (P = 0.04) protein groups (P = 0.01).
A significant 340% increase in cdk2 mRNA was observed at 1 h after RE in the protein condition (P = 0.01) and there was also a trend for an increase both at 48 h post-RE (320%) and after 21 weeks of RT (120%) (P = 0.08) (Fig. 4). By contrast, there was a significant decrease after 21 weeks of RT in the placebo group (P = 0.04). Thus, the 21-week-responses in the cdk2 mRNA between the protein and placebo group were significantly different (P = 0.04).
p21 mRNA increased in both protein and placebo groups. The increase was significant in the placebo group both at post 1 h (679%, P = 0.05) and at post 48 h (976%, P = 0.05) after RE bout whereas significant increase was seen in the protein group at 1 h after RE (466%, P = 0.003). A significant decrease in myogenin mRNA was observed at 1 h after the RE bout (37%, P = 0.005) and after 21 weeks of RT (43%, P = 0.02) in the placebo group but not in the protein group (P > 0.34).
No significant change due to either protein, RE bout or 21 weeks of RT were observed in MAFbx (P > 0.43) (Fig. 3), MyoD (P > 0.26) and FLRG (P > 0.10) mRNA (MyoD and FLRG data not shown).
Discussion
The major findings of the present study investigating both acute and long-term effects in previously untrained young men were as follows: timed intake of 15 g of whey protein both immediately before and after each exercise session (1) further increased resistance training-induced vastus lateralis muscle hypertrophy measured by MRI without significantly increasing cross-sectional areas of other quadriceps femoris muscles and also (2) increased cell-cycle related kinase cdk2 mRNA expression. Moreover, protein intake (3) seemed to prevent post-exercise decrease in myostatin and myogenin mRNA expression. The inclusion of the control group in the study assured that the results were not due to repeated biopsy effect, diurnal effect, or time of the year (Sedliak et al. 2007; Vissing et al. 2005).
Protein ingestion has been shown also previously to increase muscle myofiber CSA (Andersen et al. 2005; Cribb et al. 2007; Hartman et al. 2007) as well as lean or fat-free body mass (Burke et al. 2001; Candow et al. 2006a; Cribb et al. 2007; Hartman et al. 2007; Kerksick et al. 2006) during RT. This study was the first one to investigate the effects of timed protein nutrition close to a resistance exercise bout on training-induced whole-muscle hypertrophy by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). MRI is considered a “gold standard” for cross-sectional area measurements of muscle size due to the high quality of the images and high reproducibility (Reeves et al. 2004). The current results demonstrate that subjects ingesting 15 g of whey both immediately before and after each RE workout, two times a week for 21 weeks, had larger quadriceps femoris (QF) muscle hypertrophy (~10%) than the placebo group (~7.5%) (ns). Of the individual QF muscles, protein ingestion significantly increased resistance training-induced muscle hypertrophy in vastus lateralis, one of the largest muscles in the body and largest of the four QF muscles (Häkkinen et al. 2001). The MRI results of the present study, therefore, further suggests the importance of high-quality protein consumption soon before and after each heavy RE workout (Andersen et al. 2005; Cribb and Hayes 2006). However, there were no statistically significant effects of protein intake for other QF muscles although the most distal vastus medialis MRI-image showed signs for greater hypertrophy response in the protein group (16.9–19.9 cm2 compared to 16.2–17.5 cm2 for the placebo, P = 0.059, data not shown). The reason for observing the significant difference only in the VL muscle may be due to the fact that our exercise selection was designed to specifically load the VL muscle, the muscle from which muscle biopsies were taken. Indeed, compared to the VI and RF, the VL (and with a smaller extent also VM) exhibited the greatest hypertrophy, both absolutely and relatively, during the 21 weeks of RT (data not shown) supporting earlier results from our laboratory (Häkkinen et al. 2001).
Of the muscle strength variables, protein intake had a positive effect only in isometric leg force production in the leg press (the increase was significant compared to the controls only in the protein group). The finding that protein did not have consistent effect on maximal muscle force is in agreement with some (Andersen et al. 2005; Burke et al. 2001; Candow et al. 2006b; Kerksick et al. 2006), but not all previous studies (Candow et al. 2006a; Cribb et al. 2007). Accordingly, the effect of protein intake on improved muscle force in previously untrained subjects was only minor. This may be due to neural mechanisms, which may explain most of the force production enhan***ent during the first weeks of RT (Häkkinen et al. 2001). The effects of protein could, therefore, become significant and more consistent in terms of both muscle hypertrophy and muscle force production after much longer term training (e.g., 1–2 years), or possibly even faster with inclusion of already well-trained subjects or an amount larger than 2 × 15 g of protein per RE workout. These possibilities need further investigation.
In addition to muscle phenotype, many different gene transcript levels from the muscle were examined both acutely after the single RE bout and also after RT for 21 weeks. We found that cyclin-dependent kinase 2 (cdk2) mRNA levels increased significantly after the RE bout only in the protein group, the same phenomenon that has been shown earlier with older men in response to a similar RE bout and protein protocols (Hulmi et al. 2008). Interestingly, this increase in cdk2 mRNA remained elevated after 21 weeks of RT, but again only in the protein group. Therefore, it seems evident that protein ingestion close to the RE bout increases cdk2 mRNA expression both in young and old men.
Cyclin-dependent kinases are probably the most important regulators of cell proliferation (for review, see Malumbres et al. 2000). Cdk2 is especially important in the G1/S progression of the cell cycle (Berthet et al. 2003). Whereas cdk2 is a protein of which expression in both mRNA and protein levels as well as activity are increased in proliferating myoblasts (Hlaing et al. 2002; McCroskery et al. 2003; Ohkubo et al. 1994), it is possible that protein ingestion before and after a RE workout may increase satellite cell proliferation. This may lead to increased satellite cell count which is important in muscle recovery from micro-damage (Charge and Rudnicki 2004) and possibly also to myonuclear addition, a phenomenon important in muscle growth (Adams et al. 2002). Indeed, a recent study by Olsen et al. (2006) suggests that protein ingestion may have positive effects on the muscle satellite cell number during RT in humans. Moreover, Halevy et al. (2003) found that feeding increased DNA synthesis and satellite cell number in the culture of turkey breast muscle satellite cells when compared to a food-deprived state. Additional proof that protein possibly affects gene expression in human satellite cells in vivo comes from the present finding that protein ingestion seemed to prevent a small but rapid decrease in myogenin mRNA after the single RE bout and also a decrease after 21 weeks of RT, both observed only in the placebo group. This may be explained by an in vitro finding showing that feeding increases myogenin levels in satellite cell culture when compared to a food-deprived state (Halevy et al. 2003). Myogenin is a transcription factor expressed in myogenic cells, and like cdk2, is also downstream to myostatin (Rios et al. 2002). Myogenin is an important regulator for muscle satellite cell differentiation (Charge and Rudnicki 2004; Rios et al. 2002).
It is also possible that at least part of the observed higher cdk2 mRNA response with protein intake comes from proliferating cells other than satellite cells (or other muscle myogenic cells), such as fibroblasts and endothelial cells. Previously, one week of low protein intake decreased transcript levels in muscle positively relating to cell proliferation and increased transcript levels that negatively regulate cell proliferation (Thalacker-Mercer et al. 2007). The possibly larger cell proliferating capacity response could enhance muscle recovery after exercise workouts. The upstream mechanisms for the increased cdk2 gene expression response with whey protein are, however, unknown. It is possible that either (1) whey proteins in general or particular amino acids, (2) some bioactive peptides or other related functional components in it (Ha and Zemel 2003) or (3) energy in itself could affect cell-cycle regulators in skeletal muscle when the muscle metabolism is most active (i.e., during and after a RE bout when protein was provided). Whey proteins have a large amount of leucine, which was recently shown to activate myogenic satellite cells in pigs through the mTOR pathway (Han et al. 2008). Interestingly, cdk2 knockout mice are slightly smaller than wild-type mice (Berthet et al. 2003) and this difference could be related to possible positive effects of cdk2, a protein downstream of myostatin (McCroskery et al. 2003), on muscle mass.
In addition to cdk2, we also found effects of protein ingestion on myostatin mRNA itself. More specifically, the decrease in myostatin mRNA, occurring 1 h after the RE bout in the placebo group, was prevented with whey protein ingestion. We have observed that in older men, protein ingestion prevented the delayed post 48 h decrease in myostatin mRNA (Hulmi et al. 2008). Therefore, protein intake seems to affect muscle myostatin gene expression in healthy men, but possibly with a different time-scale in the young versus old. However, the results from various animal species and study settings on the effects of different nutritional protocols for the expression of myostatin are contradictory (Guernec et al. 2004; Jeanplong et al. 2003; Nakazato et al. 2006) and, therefore, more research is warranted. The positive effect of timed protein intake on vastus lateralis muscle growth was observed in the present study. Therefore, it is possible that the acute myostatin mRNA decrease in vastus lateralis muscle and protein ingestion effect on preventing this decrease may not have an especially important effect on muscle hypertrophy. This agrees with a recent study utilizing cluster analysis, which showed that subjects who had largest increase in muscle fiber CSA during a RT period did not have different post-RE myostatin mRNA response compared to individuals who experienced low to no increases in muscular hypertrophy (Kim et al. 2007).
We did not observe any effect of protein ingestion on myostatin binding protein FLRG mRNA response to the RE bout in contradiction with our earlier results with older men (Hulmi et al. 2008). Protein intake did not have a significant effect on the RE-induced response of cdk inhibitor p21 and activin receptor IIb mRNA, which supports our earlier results with older men (Hulmi et al. 2008). The significant down-regulation of activin receptor IIb 48 h after the RE bout confirms our previous findings with both untrained and trained older men (Hulmi et al. 2007). This RE-induced response is interesting since myostatin mediates its signals mainly through activin receptor IIb (Lee and McPherron 2001). Therefore, the decrease in activin receptor IIb mRNA gene expression after a RE bout may lead to lower myostatin signalling in muscle fibres, a response being theoretically advantageous for muscle growth. This possibility, however, needs further investigation. Since protein ingestion seems to have at least a minor acute effect on decreasing endogenous muscle protein degradation (Nagasawa et al. 1998; Tipton and Wolfe 2001), we were also interested in studying whether protein intake could affect transcription of enzymes regulating proteolysis. The results suggest that protein ingestion close to the RE bout does not have an effect on ubiquitin-ligase MAFbx mRNA expression (also called atrogin-1), a factor important in muscle proteolysis and atrophy (Bodine et al. 2001). This suggests that if protein affects RE-induced proteolysis it is not through transcriptional regulation of MAFbx.
In conclusion, high-quality whey protein intake before and after resistance exercise appears to further augment resistance training-induced muscle hypertrophy in previously untrained subjects. It also increased cyclin-dependent kinase 2 (cdk2) gene expression and may prevent an exercise-induced decrease in myostatin and myogenin mRNA. The increase in cdk2 gene expression suggests a higher proliferating cell activation response with protein supplementation that can be advantageous for muscle hypertrophy.
Associate Member
Another long one so I just posted the abstract....
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2010 Oct;20(5):409-17.
The influence of 8 weeks of whey-protein and leucine supplementation on physical and cognitive performance.
Walker TB, Smith J, Herrera M, Lebegue B, Pinchak A, Fischer J.
Source
Air Force Research Laboratory, Brooks Air Force Base, San Antonio, TX, USA.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to investigate the ability of whey-protein and leucine supplementation to enhance physical and cognitive performance and body composition. Thirty moderately fit participants completed a modified Air Force fitness test, a computer-based cognition test, and a dual-energy X-ray-absorptiometry scan for body composition before and after supplementing their daily diet for 8 wk with either 19.7 g of whey protein and 6.2 g leucine (WPL) or a calorie-equivalent placebo (P). Bench-press performance increased significantly from Week 1 to Week 8 in the WPL group, whereas the increase in the P group was not significant. Push-up performance increased significantly for WPL, and P showed a nonsignificant increase. Total mass, fat-free mass, and lean body mass all increased significantly in the WPL group but showed no change in the P group. No differences were observed within or between groups for crunches, chin-ups, 3-mile-run time, or cognition. The authors conclude that supplementing with whey protein and leucine may provide an advantage to people whose performance benefits from increased upper body strength and/or lean body mass.
Associate Member
Whey protein precludes lipid and protein oxidation and improves body weight gain in resistance-exercised rats.
Haraguchi FK, Silva ME, Neves LX, dos Santos RC, Pedrosa ML.
Source
Research in Biological Sciences-NUPEB, Ouro Preto University, Minas Gerais, Brazil.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Resistance exercise such as weight-lifting (WL) increases oxidation products in plasma, but less is known regarding the effect of WL on oxidative damage to tissues. Dietary compounds are known to improve antioxidant defences. Whey protein (WP) is a source of protein in a variety of sport supplements and can enhance physical performance.
AIM:
To evaluate the effect of WL on biomarkers of lipid and protein oxidation, on liver antioxidants and on muscle growth in the absence or presence of WP in rats.
METHODS:
Thirty-two male Fisher rats were randomly assigned to sedentary or exercise-trained groups and were fed with control or WP diets. The WL programme consisted of inducing the animals to perform sets of jumps with weights attached to the chest. After 8 weeks, arteriovenous blood samples, abdominal fat, liver and gastrocnemius muscle were collected for analysis.
RESULTS:
WP precludes WL-mediated increases in muscle protein carbonyl content and maintains low levels of TBARS in exercised and sedentary animals. WL reduced liver CAT activity, whereas WP increased hepatic glutathione content. In addition, WL plus WP generated higher body and muscle weight than exercise without WP.
CONCLUSIONS:
These data suggest that WP improves antioxidant defences, which contribute to the reduction of lipid and protein oxidation as well as body and muscle weight gain in resistance-exercised rats.
Associate Member
Your body is primed right after your workout so I am not suggesting you shouldnt eat a high protein meal if you dont have access to a whey/carb shake. Im just addressing the question about is it more effective. I want to make it clear that a SOLID diet is the key to building muscle but the addition of a whey protein shake after your workout will optimize your results.
Beach Bodybuilder ~Elite-Hall of Fame~
Interesting conclusion that there will be success on previously UNtrained subjects. The whey was also just added to a 'normal' diet.
Admit I didn't read it word for word but that's my conclusion!
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Knowledgeable Member
Why would anyone read all of that? Sorry that that is just way too much information.
VET
^^Agreed. No one is saying that we don't need protein or that most people on "normal" diets won't benefit from supplementing protein which is really all those studies show. .
But does the timing of your protein intake have any significant effect? Doubtful. Anybody can post a bunch of contradictory studies but think about it logically. If protein synthesis peaks 24 hrs after exercise and lasts up to 36 hrs then why is it so important to take whey immediately PWO? Having a PWO meal 24hrs post workout would be a better argument IMO. I've read studies that even show that protein synthesis can be enhanced by delaying the PWO meal by fasting for a few hours as opposed to eating immediately. It doesn't matter whether you eat 2min PWO or 2 hrs PWO, body composition is determined by daily overall nutrition.
The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE.
Source
Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario.
Abstract
It has been shown that muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by 50% at 4 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hrs following training. This study further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a training session. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms using the primed constant infusion technique over 11 hrs. At an average time of 36 hrs postexercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.
IJSNEM Volume 19, Issue 2, April
Original Research
Effect of Protein-Supplement Timing on Strength, Power, and Body-Composition Changes in Resistance-Trained Men
The effect of 10 wk of protein-supplement timing on strength, power, and body composition was examined in 33 resistance-trained men. Participants were randomly assigned to a protein supplement either provided in the morning and evening (n = 13) or provided immediately before and immediately after workouts (n = 13). In addition, 7 participants agreed to serve as a control group and did not use any protein or other nutritional supplement. During each testing session participants were assessed for strength (one-repetition-maximum [1RM] bench press and squat), power (5 repetitions performed at 80% of 1RM in both the bench press and the squat), and body composition. A significant main effect for all 3 groups in strength improvement was seen in 1RM bench press (120.6 ± 20.5 kg vs. 125.4 ± 16.7 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively) and 1RM squat (154.5 ± 28.4 kg vs. 169.0 ± 25.5 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively). However, no significant between-groups interactions were seen in 1RM squat or 1RM bench press. Significant main effects were also seen in both upper and lower body peak and mean power, but no significant differences were seen between groups. No changes in body mass or percent body fat were seen in any of the groups. Results indicate that the time of protein-supplement ingestion in resistance-trained athletes during a 10-wk training program does not provide any added benefit to strength, power, or body-composition changes.
IJSNEM Volume 18, Issue 1, February
Original Research
Carbohydrate-Protein Drinks Do Not Enhance Recovery From Exercise-Induced Muscle Injury
This study examined the effects of carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate-protein (CHO+PRO), or placebo (PLA) beverages on recovery from novel eccentric exercise. Female participants performed 30 min of downhill treadmill running (–12% grade, 8.0 mph), followed by consumption of a CHO, CHO+PRO, or PLA beverage immediately, 30, and 60 min after exercise. CHO and CHO+PRO groups (n = 6 per group) consumed 1.2 g · kg body weight–1 · hr–1 CHO, with the CHO+PRO group consuming an additional 0.3 g · kg body weight–1 · hr–1 PRO. The PLA group (n = 6) received an isovolumetric noncaloric beverage. Maximal isometric quadriceps strength (QUAD), lower extremity muscle soreness (SOR), and serum creatine kinase (CK) were assessed preinjury (PRE) and immediately and 1, 2, and 3 d postinjury to assess exercise-induced muscle injury and rate of recovery. There was no effect of treatment on recovery of QUAD (p = .21), SOR (p = .56), or CK (p = .59). In all groups, QUAD was reduced compared with PRE by 20.6% ± 1.5%, 17.2% ± 2.3%, and 11.3% ± 2.3% immediately, 1, and 2 d postinjury, respectively (p < .05). SOR peaked at 2 d postinjury (PRE vs. 2 d, 3.1 ± 1.0 vs. 54.0 ± 4.8 mm, p < .01), and serum CK peaked 1 d postinjury (PRE vs. 1 d, 138 ± 47 vs. 757 ± 144 U/L, p < .01). In conclusion, consuming a CHO+PRO or CHO beverage immediately after novel eccentric exercise failed to enhance recovery of exercise-induced muscle injury differently than what was observed with a PLA drink.
Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.
Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.
Source
Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.
AR-Hall of Famer ~Diet Guru~
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