I dont think people realize how much fat their holding

[Boxtrot]

I know i didn't. Been hitting my cals/macros perfect on a cut with albuterol, only 8 days in with one cheat day.

I am looking better whilst retaining muscle but i am deffinately shrinking. I think i hold a lot of fat stored within my muscles cant remember what that fat is called but i am deffinately a smaller human being now. Fat stored within the muscles is the worst! You look great when u flex but smooth and soft when you dont. Damn genetics!

[Super-Chump]

Mmm i think you will find that you will be holding a lot of water too. Shit, I know I am. I lost 1.5" in my legs in 4 weeks while maintaining my muscle and strength...

[ironbeck]

If I take a pause after working out consistent for a yr, when I start to put on a little weight, that's when ppl say, you working out? u look bigger lol.

[Shol'va]

Oh there is one on here who knows how much fat he is holding and it's usually over 300 pounds depending upon the woman...

[Bonaparte]

Unlike cows, we humans don't store fat within our muscles. You're talking about glycogen stores.
And I think you were looking for the term visceral fat (as opposed to subcutaneous fat), but that is fat between your organs.

[oatmeal69]

I think I have the visceral fat thing going on BIG TIME. My whole body is fairly lean now, and I can see my top two sets of abs - but unless I really suck it in, my belly still sticks out way more than my chest. I hate it, don't really know how to fix it either...

[< <Samson> >]

Unlike cows, we humans don't store fat within our muscles. You're talking about glycogen stores.
And I think you were looking for the term visceral fat (as opposed to subcutaneous fat), but that is fat between your organs.

Really? No shit?

Like my arms for instance, they grew from right under 16" to very close to 17.5" so far. This can't be all muscle. If our muscle is not marbled with fat like our friend the cow, what is it?

[DanB]

I think I have the visceral fat thing going on BIG TIME. My whole body is fairly lean now, and I can see my top two sets of abs - but unless I really suck it in, my belly still sticks out way more than my chest. I hate it, don't really know how to fix it either...

Not taking the piss, but are you standing up straight? Alot of people naturally slouch and that makes for the look you described

[< <Samson> >]

I think I have the visceral fat thing going on BIG TIME. My whole body is fairly lean now, and I can see my top two sets of abs - but unless I really suck it in, my belly still sticks out way more than my chest. I hate it, don't really know how to fix it either...

Back in my most fit day, that is how I was also. Everything looked lean except the area bellow my belly button. I was down to 169Lbs. I felt skinny with kind of a gut.

I really considered getting it lypo dissolved(or what ever it's called). But, I came to a conclusion that being 5'10" & 169 is not gonna cut it. So I started gaining weight over all. I'll see how I look after my next cut.

[Back In Black]

At a bodyfat of sub 14% you should have very little visceral fat!

[oatmeal69]

I think I must have really big guts, LOL

[oatmeal69]

Does visceral fat go away before subcutaneous, or is it like everything else - overall lean-ness?

[goodlifting]

Unlike cows, we humans don't store fat within our muscles. You're talking about glycogen stores.
And I think you were looking for the term visceral fat (as opposed to subcutaneous fat), but that is fat between your organs.

Humans do store fat in there muscles. Actually, very physically fit people will store more fat in their muscles than more sedentary people. We keep a little bit of fat in the muscles to help shorten energy transfer processes (oxidative phosphoralation).

[Back In Black]

Does visceral fat go away before subcutaneous, or is it like everything else - overall lean-ness?

At 10% you should have almost no visceral fat so yes, it goes first.

[Bonaparte]

Humans do store fat in there muscles. Actually, very physically fit people will store more fat in their muscles than more sedentary people. We keep a little bit of fat in the muscles to help shorten energy transfer processes (oxidative phosphoralation).

Ok, (after looking it up) you are technically correct.
But this is a very small amount of fat, and certainly has nothing to do with what the OP is noticing.

[< <Samson> >]

So. . . . . Is water officially stored within the muscle?

[Bonaparte]

So. . . . . Is water officially stored within the muscle?

Yes. Your body is mostly comprised of water, and your muscles are no exception.
An increase in glycogen storage will increase water volume within the muscle, giving you a more "full" look.

[< <Samson> >]

All good info here.

That for sure explains some shit to me.

[AD]

I think I must have really big guts, LOL

you ever did GH? i read somewhere that GH enlarges internal organs, so no matter how cut you're, the gut is still bloated out.

[auswest]

you ever did GH? i read somewhere that GH enlarges internal organs, so no matter how cut you're, the gut is still bloated out.

The modern day bodybuilder... gh gut.

When I was at my largest on a full-time bulk at 100kgs 5.8" my stomach would stick out. From about 90 through 100kgs I would have to walk around sucking my gut in, not heaps of fat at all just very bloated, and some fat, once I realized enough was enough. Didnt realize how big I was getting, there was a period there where putting my socks on was a fkn mission,
As I started to cut the gut bloat disappeared. Until I got down to where I am now around 10% I was prob about 16-18 when I had a bloated stomach though.
I was carrying alot of water though, once I got my estrogen under control I deflated.
It may have been a change in food too though, I now don't eat dairy like milk and cheese except cottage cheese and no refined carbs like pasta and bread ect.

[SEOINAGE]

This thread has actually been educational, good to know that we don't store any large amounts of fat within our muscles, thats something a lot of people probably don't know. Also diet can change your gut health and reduce inflammation. I have always had a gut, even when i was leaner it would stick out more, dunno if it is just my short torso or other factors, but when i went without gluten it sure felt smaller and any time i ate a lot of bread or pizza after that i noticed the discomfort and bloat in my stomach. Right now my gut is considerably smaller than before, I don't have an accurate way to measure things, but i am probably carrying a lot more fat than I would think, I just planned that I need to lose 40 lbs, its not going so well. My scale says I have just been gaining fat as of lately, and says my total body water is much lower, which i know they are not accurate at all I wish I could permanently disable it, because even though i know it is wrong it pisses me off seeing the percentages. Since starting trt it says I have just gotten fatter, but i have been eating less and working out very consistent.

[oatmeal69]

you ever did GH? i read somewhere that GH enlarges internal organs, so no matter how cut you're, the gut is still bloated out.

No, but I have always been a big eater. I think between "big guts" lots of water (I'm on cycle now - Test & Tren ) and what / how much I eat - Eggs, Oats, some pasta, etc. It all combines to give me "Gorilla Gut."
I started doing morning cardio today in addition to my workout and PWO cardio, Hopefully that will help some.

[Shol'va]

[songdog]

Unlike cows, we humans don't store fat within our muscles. You're talking about glycogen stores.
And I think you were looking for the term visceral fat (as opposed to subcutaneous fat), but that is fat between your organs.

I love this guy beacuse he always has the correct answer

[Razor]

I love this guy beacuse he always has the correct answer

Ditto

[oscarjones]

All of you guys chalk up chronic gut inflammation to GH and shit. Go look into parasites, candida, small intestine bacterial overgrowth, food allergies (wheat, soy, cows' milk specifically) and then get back to me. Go read a book on pure water fasting and autoimmune disorders! There's so much claim about drugs, and "GH gut" when really that's a partial issue.

[oatmeal69]

Hmmm... This makes some sense to me. I have less than an inch of 'stuff' covering my abs, but I have the "Gorilla Gut." I wonder how I could change my diet temporarily to kinda clean stuff out and shrink it - without foregoing the nutrients to support hypertrophy.

[oscarjones]

Hmmm... This makes some sense to me. I have less than an inch of 'stuff' covering my abs, but I have the "Gorilla Gut." I wonder how I could change my diet temporarily to kinda clean stuff out and shrink it - without foregoing the nutrients to support hypertrophy.

Honestly, if you have a gorilla gut, there's a chance that you're body isn't even assimilating or absorbing those nutrients you are ingesting adequately, whether they are from whole foods or supplements alike. From my research, the most common reason that causes an extended abdominal region is leaky gut. Now, leaky gut can occur in various ways, and it's good to investigate what could be causing this reaction in your body, and the main concern is how to cure it of course. Basically, leaky gut is enteropathy of the semi-permeable membrane, or "cell wall", respectively, of your intestines.

Now, this semi-permeable membrane, or "cell wall", is what allows nutrients to be absorbed into your blood stream after being digested, or broken down. You know, your body breaks proteins down into amino acids, lipids down into fatty acids, and carbohydrate down into saccharides. Well, once you've digested all your foods into these smaller substances, they then pass through this semi-permeable membrane and into your blood stream, are sent to your liver, then utilized throughout the body.

So, this cell wall we're speaking about is only 1 cell thick. Yep, that's right, 1... cell... and... What do you think inflammation does to this cell wall? You got it, it stretches it out and creates gaps larger than 1 cell, which in turn allows for undigested food particles and waste to flow through the membrane and into your blood stream, which then ends up at the liver. Meanwhile, the liver is going what the fvck is this shit? I can't use partially digested proteins and lipids, I need me some aminos and fatty acids! Finally, the liver gets angry and releases white blood cells to combat these foreign invaders (or so it thinks), and that's the start to another immune response, which then leads to MORE inflammation of your GI tract and thus the viscous cycle begins.

[oscarjones]

So, I'm guessing you've had this "gorilla gut" for a few years? Maybe longer? Inflammation of this sort is chronic, and common, and most gastroenterologist's give the disorder a name such as crohn's disease, or celiac disease. Basically, they'll prescribe medications to mask your inflammation and call it a day, not without first sticking a scope down your throat and up your arse. Now, seeing a gastro isn't a bad thing to do, and please don't expect to be cured by such specialists, regardless of how experienced or knowledgeable they may seem. Besides, there's a possibility of discovering other important issues such as severe diverticulitis, or ulceration. However, all that aside, I expect you're interested in how to go about manipulating your diet to help reduce this inflammation, and there is hope.

What I recommend is that you do a food allergy test, as this will greatly improve your ability to allow the body to start the healing process. I mean, if you're constantly shoving allergenic foods down the pipe, you're going to continue to irritate and stay inflamed. To be honest, this isn't as easy as it sounds, and you can go about testing for food allergies in various ways such as elimination, blood tests, etc. In my opinion, the easiest way to begin is by eliminating the foods that we all know to be harmful to ANY humans GI tract! (Wheat, Cows milk rank highest). Seriously, give it a shot. Take out these foods form your daily diet and see how you are feeling after 2 weeks.

Remember, you're body may not have always been allergic to certain foods, and since this inflammation began, you may have formed new food allergies! Now, this isn't to say that these foods won't, at some point down the healing line, be consumable again, and you want give your body some time to regain it's tolerance. (Note: Some allergies will be constant, regardless of the state of well being).

So, lets say you turn out to be terribly allergic to breads, wheat, pizza, flour, yeast, that sort of thing, and you ingest some food that contains such. Blam! Suddenly, you have inflammation and that uncomfortably full, gassy, protruding, pressure building up-type feeling in your GI tract... well... this reaction may take up to 48 hours to dissipate! That's right, you heard me! This is why it's important to give your body at least 2 weeks with the elimination process. Also, keep in mind you may be allergic to totally unexpected things like onions, garlic, cranberries, CHICKEN, BROCCOLI, etc. (It could be something that's a main stay in your BB diet, and you'll have to make a decision, health or looks)?

Alas, I mentioned food allergies and in my post-previous post, SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth), which I think is more common than people really expect or understand. This is basically where bacteria from the colon travels up the small intestine (where not much bacteria belong) and set up camp. This can be due to systematic, broad spectrum antibiotics which may have killed all your "beneficial bacteria" or flora in your gut, creating an imbalance, and allowing for the "bad bacteria" to spread. So, if this is the case, then all the foods you're ingesting are having a methane-hydrogen gas reaction when exposed to the bacteria! One way to test for SIBO is the Hydrogen Breath test.

Honestly, you should explain what other symptoms you're having, and I honestly believe that what I've explained has a portion of the role to play with your IBS. There are ways to combat the issue, such as specific antibiotics that only absorb in your gut, and not systematically, which will end up nuking these bad bacteria MFvckers into oblivion, and allow you to replenish your GI with probiotics and healthy flora. I can also help direct you to other informational websites if you, or anyone is interested. I'm a Leaky gut SI hater!

[oatmeal69]

Interesting. The only item I use out of all of those would be pasta. I eat chicken and broccoli too.I use Ezekiel Bread, but that isn't really "bread."
I've always had a protruding gut, since before I can remember, and it runs in my family. Unless I suck it in, it's always there.
There are no 'symptoms' per se; I feel better now than I did in my 30's, and I'm probably as lean and nearly as fit as I was in my early 20's.

[oscarjones]

Interesting. The only item I use out of all of those would be pasta. I eat chicken and broccoli too.I use Ezekiel Bread, but that isn't really "bread."
I've always had a protruding gut, since before I can remember, and it runs in my family. Unless I suck it in, it's always there.
There are no 'symptoms' per se; I feel better now than I did in my 30's, and I'm probably as lean and nearly as fit as I was in my early 20's.

Good information. Have you any experience with intermittent fasting? Also, do you have normal stool?

[oatmeal69]

yes, and yes.
I don't believe in fasting. It causes muscle catabolism and metabolic slowdown, along with any good it may do.

[GirlyGymRat]

OM..have u eaten alot of hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils. like in Peanut Butter? Our bodies cannot process this stuff and gunks up the gut. I did a full body cleanse and the tar that came out of my body was alien matter. Candida first and then the tar. So glad I was home during the "release".

[Bonaparte]

I love this guy beacuse he always has the correct answer

Well, I was actually incorrect about the first part. As Goodlifting pointed out, we do store (miniscule) amounts of fat within our muscles to aid in ATP production.
But again, this is not going to affect your measurements.

[oscarjones]

OM..have u eaten a lot of hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils. like in Peanut Butter? Our bodies cannot process this stuff and gunk's up the gut. I did a full body cleanse and the tar that came out of my body was alien matter. Candida first and then the tar. So glad I was home during the "release".

Typically, the first step in healing is this. A generalized colon cleansing (with specific aims at bacteria, protozoa [parasites], and fungi [candida]) followed by a therapeutic diet, such as liquid/clear liquid, or something like "the special carbohydrate diet". Most commonly, these therapeutic diets allow your body to absorb nutrients much easier, and they tend to give your body's digestion process a break, which in turn allows for more energy to be put toward healing.

Over 90% of our immune tissue is in the gut, and if it's always bogged down with having to digest polysaccharides and dense animal proteins, the amount of blood flow and energy used towards healing any issues is very reduced. Again, if you don't believe in fasting OM, I can understand that... fasting wouldn't facilitate an atmosphere for anabolism or common bodybuilding goals. However, case in point, you'd probably be able to get away with a 10-14 day juice fast alongside some heavy colon cleansing and achieve a couple goals. One, being great amount of adipose tissue metabolism, and two, a much healthier GI and comfortable resolve towards your appearance, specifically your "gorilla gut". In fact, I'd stake money on the possibility of relieving 50-80% of your irritability through a solid, properly performed juice fast.

[oatmeal69]

I might be willing to go meatless for a week or two - stick to yogurt, cottage cheese, & egg whites. then make up the balance with vegetables and avoid fats.
The problem with fasting is that it's so detrimental to retaining muscle. I've watched people literally waste away doing it. Then when they resume a normal diet, the fat and junk returns, with much less muscle to support it. Totally contrary to the nutrition ideals put forth on this forum, IMHO.

[GirlyGymRat]

there are several different types of cleansing programs according to what I researched. I did 2 cleanse days with very little food (mostly carbs little fat no protein) and then 7 shake days (2 shakes and 1 small meal with protein). then repeat 2 day cleanse. I did this cycle twice and wha la...the "experience". I was a little crabby and couldn't work out on CLEANSE DAYS.

Come the second Monday, a male colleague sitting from me, commented that my stomach was flatter since Friday. I was known as "the professional dieter" by everyone around me so no surprise that I was doing yet something different, but the lose of gut size was "significant" over a weekend.

I don't push any program to anyone nor is it for everyone. I found it helpful but need to decide for yourself.

[Brohim]

of course your gut would be small if you didn't eat anything for a day or two. Did you notice any long term benefit from the cleanse?

You have to exercise your TV muscle and make it strong so your gut does not protrude out. If you don't know what it is look it up.

[GirlyGymRat]

^^^ yes. That Candida (yeast) and then that tar alien matter is gone. It was amazing after all those diets, I never had that release. And my gut was never small (until now - water now bloats my tummy).

It served my purpose at that time : )

I think I need to do that cleanse again only because I had to eat 60 g of fat daily (that's a lot of fat for a gal my size)due to health reasons and ate a lot of PB to get those numbers. Plus it has been YEARS.

I think we have to mindful that some of the programs are media hype and focused on the sell, but seems u can do a food cleanse as mentioned previously.

And I no longer have lower back pain and I do lift. I even grunt (alittle) when I lift heavy...embarrassing as that is on a woman.

Like I said, I aint selling, but sharing my own testimony.

[GirlyGymRat]

^^^BTW, I lost 40 pounds by learning and great nutritional and workout advice on this board....NO CLEANSE will have u those numbers IMHO.