Why will US Army soldiers not discuss the election?

[Atomini]

Just a simple question i've been wondering, and maybe this isn't actually the case and was isolated to just those I interacted with... but I am a Canadian soldier, this year I have gone on 2 big field training exercises in which I worked with Americans (both national guard). The first exercise was a mid-February 12 day long domestic response exercise up here in Canada, where we had several hundred of our own on the exercise, and 200 - 300 or so Army national guard from Penn state (I forgot where they were from exactly, but I do have patches I traded with them lol). The second was another 12 day exercise in March where we went down to Fort Pickett, Virginia (right next to the town of Blackstone). On the way down there (my unit drove down), we stopped in PA to sleep at a national guard armory there.

On both exercises when I was just chatting and shooting the shit with them, I tried bringing up the topic of Obama and/or the election in general and it seemed as though nobody wanted to talk about it... almost as if they were not allowed to. Nobody outright said "sorry, I can't talk about that". They instead seemed to skirt the subject and not want to discuss it, trying to avoid it as much as possible or whenever it was brought up. I just wanted to get a good outlook on the whole political situation from a US soldier himself but I just couldn't get anything, really.

I understand a Marine was recently dishonorably discharged for making a facebook post about disliking Obama, which his CO caught wind of, and I figured maybe it's something nobody wants to talk about because they may be reprimanded for having negative views of their current president or something. Or is it a general rule that if you're wearing the uniform and you have a negative opinion/view of the president or the election that you keep it to yourself else you face consequences should someone hear what you say? Or maybe they just didn't want to discuss it with Canadians?

[Shol'va]

Because as a military man in the US, his boss is the Commander In Chief, aka The President of the US, and as such they are not to badmouth or belittle their commanders no matter what their personal feelings.

[RaginCajun]

what he said

[spywizard]

they can with one another, but public discussion is not allowed and against the UCMJ which would = jail time and a bad conduct discharge...

ever see the guys that showed the distress signs when posing with clinton?? hilarious..

Jimmy Carter was an idiot incompotant that did nothing for the military... where as Reagan bought the military with a 13% across the board payraise, now that was nice..

[Misery13]

Because as a military man in the US, his boss is the Commander In Chief, aka The President of the US, and as such they are not to badmouth or belittle their commanders no matter what their personal feelings.

We are advised not to engage in discussions about politics and religion.

[Atomini]

That makes sense. I figured that was the case anyhow.

[crazy_rocks]

we talk about stuff like this at work but we know better than to say bad things about the president to the media. maybe it had something to do with you being a soldier from another country and they were briefed not to get into such discussions, i dont know. if thats not the case then i find it weird that they wouldnt talk about it considering how open soldiers have been at at all three of my duty stations ive been to.

[Atomini]

Well, perhaps it's different amongst one another, or maybe they didn't feel comfortable enough with me yet to discuss something like that. Seems like it's something that can be touchy in some places more than others.

[Armykid93]

Because as a military man in the US, his boss is the Commander In Chief, aka The President of the US, and as such they are not to badmouth or belittle their commanders no matter what their personal feelings.

Exactly. We get destroyed for talking bad about the president.

[Coolhand5599]

Did you ever hear the saying, if you can't say something nice about someone then say nothing at all?

Obama is a piece of $hit that only cares about getting re elected and pushing his agenda. The fact the the people fighting for him can't saya anything good should be a wake up call for all Americans.

[Armykid93]

Did you ever hear the saying, if you can't say something nice about someone then say nothing at all?

Obama is a piece of $hit that only cares about getting re elected and pushing his agenda. The fact the the people fighting for him can't saya anything good should be a wake up call for all Americans.

This is perfect lol I agree with everything here

[Shol'va]

Yeah me too I can't wait till Mitt Romney gets elected so I can convert to Mormonism and marry me several guys at one time. Hey they can have several wives so why can't I have several hubbys? Rub a dub dub three men in a tub....

[wmaousley]

Simple answer: The US Military as you know has a ranking structure from Private (E-1) up to the Commander & Chief (US President), so do talk bad/good about a superior can land the soldier in hot water whether its his company commander, battalion CO or the US President. As a soldier we dont care who the president is, or really cant care because he or she will be in our command structure.

Defamation of a superior in the US Military will land you in Jail, we have 2 laws in the states, Federal law and Military law

[Razor]

Simple answer: The US Military as you know has a ranking structure from Private (E-1) up to the Commander & Chief (US President), so do talk bad/good about a superior can land the soldier in hot water whether its his company commander, battalion CO or the US President. As a soldier we dont care who the president is, or really cant care because he or she will be in our command structure.

Defamation of a superior in the US Military will land you in Jail, we have 2 laws in the states, Federal law and Military law

What was the generals name that trashed Obama in the rolling stone articles? His career ended with a resignation letter and gettig fired over it. Even generals have to watch what they say

[Armykid93]

What was the generals name that trashed Obama in the rolling stone articles? His career ended with a resignation letter and gettig fired over it. Even generals have to watch what they say

Nobody is higher ranking than the law lol. It makes me laugh when people think they can do things like that, I don't like president obamas policies but either way i'm going to do my job and get paid.

[Nooomoto]

King Obama will tolerate no dissent among the ranks.

I'm very close friends with a lot of soldiers in combat arms units that I met through mutual friends or my graduate research and the vast majority of them, if not all are very dissatisfied with the President. A good number of the guys I talk with even go as far as feeling betrayed and some even directly blame his policies via orders given directly to their units through officers not far detached from the President regarding very specific military actions resulting in the totally unnecessary deaths of good men.

Granted, when you sign up as a soldier, and go out of your way to get into the types of units that these guys are in doing what they do, losing your life is an accepted risk...but it stings a little bit more when you KNOW in your heart of hearts that what you're doing is ridiculous and not going to further any larger military goal leading to decisive victory.

Add to that the fact that women will now be allowed into Ranger school and combat arms units and yeah...I doubt you'd find any real soldiers that are happy with the President.

The culture is totally different now from what it was 5 years ago. I know a soldier in a small unit that was sent to Iraq as part of a task force, this task force had a target list, and every objective on the list was satisfied. Literally a 100% success rate. Upon returning home this particular unit was rewarded with 4 day work weeks for a year, tons of leave and pretty much unlimited op-funds and prime selection for slots at any TDY/school they wanted.

Contrast that with this soldier's last deployment to Afghanistan, from which he recently returned. There was no clear objective, his unit was sent over short handed, under funded and ill-equipped. They literally had one vehicle which they had to share with other units in the area, which by the way the closest of was some 60 KM away. This particular soldier has a recurring injury that requires surgery and was sent over anyway, which he didn't find too much of a problem because he is the type of person that will do everything he can to get the job done, he doesn't believe in shit-bagging. Anyway, he returns to the US...still having this injury and 4 weeks after returning from Afghanistan is given a PT test, which he fails because he can't train as he needs to due to his injury. Keep in mind this soldier has never failed a PT test in a decade, and in fact has the highest scores in his entire command, having maxed every PT test he has ever taken. I forget the term but they put something on his record that pretty much indicates he's washed up and lazy. Normally this would prevent him from being promoted, but he's getting out in less than a year so there really is no consequence. However, being the kind of guy he is, it's a pride thing and is screwing with his head, and he believes that it will adversely affect him when he gets out and applies for jobs, most of his prospects being the types of companies that hire ex-military that will understand what that certain mark on his record means.

This happens at the same time that SOCOM has been instructed to cut their forces down even further from the anemic numbers they have now, so you figure that one out.

The culture being sent down from the top now is not one that rewards success and out-standing performances. Medal winners are not wanted, but if you're a chick and wanna go to the most elite combat leadership school in the world...hey great, we'll water down the standard so you as a woman can feel good.

[Razor]

Nobody is higher ranking than the law lol. It makes me laugh when people think they can do things like that, I don't like president obamas policies but either way i'm going to do my job and get paid.

This was the guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_A._McChrystal

[Atomini]

King Obama will tolerate no dissent among the ranks.

I'm very close friends with a lot of soldiers in combat arms units that I met through mutual friends or my graduate research and the vast majority of them, if not all are very dissatisfied with the President. A good number of the guys I talk with even go as far as feeling betrayed and some even directly blame his policies via orders given directly to their units through officers not far detached from the President regarding very specific military actions resulting in the totally unnecessary deaths of good men.

Granted, when you sign up as a soldier, and go out of your way to get into the types of units that these guys are in doing what they do, losing your life is an accepted risk...but it stings a little bit more when you KNOW in your heart of hearts that what you're doing is ridiculous and not going to further any larger military goal leading to decisive victory.

Add to that the fact that women will now be allowed into Ranger school and combat arms units and yeah...I doubt you'd find any real soldiers that are happy with the President.

The culture is totally different now from what it was 5 years ago. I know a soldier in a small unit that was sent to Iraq as part of a task force, this task force had a target list, and every objective on the list was satisfied. Literally a 100% success rate. Upon returning home this particular unit was rewarded with 4 day work weeks for a year, tons of leave and pretty much unlimited op-funds and prime selection for slots at any TDY/school they wanted.

Contrast that with this soldier's last deployment to Afghanistan, from which he recently returned. There was no clear objective, his unit was sent over short handed, under funded and ill-equipped. They literally had one vehicle which they had to share with other units in the area, which by the way the closest of was some 60 KM away. This particular soldier has a recurring injury that requires surgery and was sent over anyway, which he didn't find too much of a problem because he is the type of person that will do everything he can to get the job done, he doesn't believe in shit-bagging. Anyway, he returns to the US...still having this injury and 4 weeks after returning from Afghanistan is given a PT test, which he fails because he can't train as he needs to due to his injury. Keep in mind this soldier has never failed a PT test in a decade, and in fact has the highest scores in his entire command, having maxed every PT test he has ever taken. I forget the term but they put something on his record that pretty much indicates he's washed up and lazy. Normally this would prevent him from being promoted, but he's getting out in less than a year so there really is no consequence. However, being the kind of guy he is, it's a pride thing and is screwing with his head, and he believes that it will adversely affect him when he gets out and applies for jobs, most of his prospects being the types of companies that hire ex-military that will understand what that certain mark on his record means.

This happens at the same time that SOCOM has been instructed to cut their forces down even further from the anemic numbers they have now, so you figure that one out.

The culture being sent down from the top now is not one that rewards success and out-standing performances. Medal winners are not wanted, but if you're a chick and wanna go to the most elite combat leadership school in the world...hey great, we'll water down the standard so you as a woman can feel good.

Whoa... that's really sad to hear. I know it was bad but I never knew the gritty details to that extent. This is the stuff I wanted to hear for myself.

[wmaousley]

King Obama will tolerate no dissent among the ranks.

I'm very close friends with a lot of soldiers in combat arms units that I met through mutual friends or my graduate research and the vast majority of them, if not all are very dissatisfied with the President. A good number of the guys I talk with even go as far as feeling betrayed and some even directly blame his policies via orders given directly to their units through officers not far detached from the President regarding very specific military actions resulting in the totally unnecessary deaths of good men.

Granted, when you sign up as a soldier, and go out of your way to get into the types of units that these guys are in doing what they do, losing your life is an accepted risk...but it stings a little bit more when you KNOW in your heart of hearts that what you're doing is ridiculous and not going to further any larger military goal leading to decisive victory.

Add to that the fact that women will now be allowed into Ranger school and combat arms units and yeah...I doubt you'd find any real soldiers that are happy with the President.

The culture is totally different now from what it was 5 years ago. I know a soldier in a small unit that was sent to Iraq as part of a task force, this task force had a target list, and every objective on the list was satisfied. Literally a 100% success rate. Upon returning home this particular unit was rewarded with 4 day work weeks for a year, tons of leave and pretty much unlimited op-funds and prime selection for slots at any TDY/school they wanted.

Contrast that with this soldier's last deployment to Afghanistan, from which he recently returned. There was no clear objective, his unit was sent over short handed, under funded and ill-equipped. They literally had one vehicle which they had to share with other units in the area, which by the way the closest of was some 60 KM away. This particular soldier has a recurring injury that requires surgery and was sent over anyway, which he didn't find too much of a problem because he is the type of person that will do everything he can to get the job done, he doesn't believe in shit-bagging. Anyway, he returns to the US...still having this injury and 4 weeks after returning from Afghanistan is given a PT test, which he fails because he can't train as he needs to due to his injury. Keep in mind this soldier has never failed a PT test in a decade, and in fact has the highest scores in his entire command, having maxed every PT test he has ever taken. I forget the term but they put something on his record that pretty much indicates he's washed up and lazy. Normally this would prevent him from being promoted, but he's getting out in less than a year so there really is no consequence. However, being the kind of guy he is, it's a pride thing and is screwing with his head, and he believes that it will adversely affect him when he gets out and applies for jobs, most of his prospects being the types of companies that hire ex-military that will understand what that certain mark on his record means.

This happens at the same time that SOCOM has been instructed to cut their forces down even further from the anemic numbers they have now, so you figure that one out.
The culture being sent down from the top now is not one that rewards success and out-standing performances. Medal winners are not wanted, but if you're a chick and wanna go to the most elite combat leadership school in the world...hey great, we'll water down the standard so you as a woman can feel good.

Women in RASP??? I dont fvckin think so, They have just allowed women to join some support units within combat arms divisions that they were not previously allowed in. And where did you hear that SOCOM was instructed to cut their forces down? This is 100% BS, as SORB is in full recruiting mode trying to get every available qualified body they can to fill SOF MTOE's. If you need to speak with anyone regarding this I will pm you a SF Recruiter's info. Just another side note, All male prior service E-1 to E-4 who want to re-enter the Army will enlist as an 18X (Special Forces Recruit). How is that for downsizing?

Only the big Army is cutting forces.

[Nooomoto]

Women in RASP??? I dont fvckin think so, They have just allowed women to join some support units within combat arms divisions that they were not previously allowed in. And where did you hear that SOCOM was instructed to cut their forces down? This is 100% BS, as SORB is in full recruiting mode trying to get every available qualified body they can to fill SOF MTOE's. If you need to speak with anyone regarding this I will pm you a SF Recruiter's info. Just another side note, All male prior service E-1 to E-4 who want to re-enter the Army will enlist as an 18X (Special Forces Recruit). How is that for downsizing?

Only the big Army is cutting forces.

It's coming dude...you'll see. All the qualified bodies are leaving. Many are being pushed out. You don't find it ridiculous that every re-enlisting male up to E4 is signed up as an 18 series? That's called watering down the standard. There's more "change you can believe in" coming, and it's not good.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/0...school-051612/

[Armykid93]

This was the guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_A._McChrystal

Wow that's nuts. I have mixed feelings because we should have the right to say what we want but at the same time you can't bad mouth the commander in chief. Its a maturity thing I think like we should be allowed to I just wish people didn't. Either way that dude is still taking in tons. He's probably getting 75 percent of his pay which was substantial as a general, for the rest of his life

[wmaousley]

It's coming dude...you'll see. All the qualified bodies are leaving. Many are being pushed out. You don't find it ridiculous that every re-enlisting male up to E4 is signed up as an 18 series? That's called watering down the standard. There's more "change you can believe in" coming, and it's not good.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/0...school-051612/

No doubt change is coming, but not integrating women into SOF, There is no room for a woman on and ODA or in the 75th or any other SO units. The physical standards being what they are are not the hurdle because I feel some women can make it through the training without assistance or reducing the standard, its the psycological hurdles.

US ARMY SOP states that a women have to have a welfare check every 3rd day in the field, meaning shower and all that good shit, which is fine but thats reducing the standard if it were to be implemented.

See where I am going with this? As of now women have SOF support roles, on ODB's and with the 75 Support Battalions, but will never be fully integrated holding a MTOE slot of a combat force.


"Going to Ranger school, however, does not automatically mean women would be allowed to serve in one of the Army’s three elite Ranger battalions, which are Army special operations forces. In fact, many male soldiers who wear the coveted Ranger tab on their uniforms never actually serve in one of the three battalions."

[crazy_rocks]

It's coming dude...you'll see. All the qualified bodies are leaving. Many are being pushed out. You don't find it ridiculous that every re-enlisting male up to E4 is signed up as an 18 series? That's called watering down the standard. There's more "change you can believe in" coming, and it's not good.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/0...school-051612/

a few do slip through the cracks at selection considering the larger number of people going. thats just the way it is. sfas cadre will tell you that themselves. it doesnt end there though. just because you make through sfas it does not mean you will end up in group. people still get weeded out in the training that takes place afterwards. the bigger number of recruits into sf has little to do with the change we can believe in however the female infantry thing does scare me.

[evander87]

Sidebar simple question for my own education. I understand Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines all report to the Commander in Chief AKA President but aren't National Guard at the state level? Do they report to the President or the Governor of the state they are from? Just wondering.

Thanks.

[wmaousley]

a few do slip through the cracks at selection considering the larger number of people going. thats just the way it is. sfas cadre will tell you that themselves. it doesnt end there though. just because you make through sfas it does not mean you will end up in group. people still get weeded out in the training that takes place afterwards. the bigger number of recruits into sf has little to do with the change we can believe in however the female infantry thing does scare me.

Ofcourse SFAS is the Assessment & Selection Phase of the SFQ Course. Upon sucessful completition ofthe SFQ, you will automatically go to a group.


Google Leigh Ann Heister, regarding your infantry comment. Women are just as capable as men, however I do not think the integration of women into infantry line units will take place.

[crazy_rocks]

Ofcourse SFAS is the Assessment & Selection Phase of the SFQ Course. Upon sucessful completition ofthe SFQ, you will automatically go to a group.


Google Leigh Ann Heister, regarding your infantry comment. Women are just as capable as men, however I do not think the integration of women into infantry line units will take place.

and only then. some get confused and think accepting more is automatically "taking em in" without knowing the finer details

[wmaousley]

right. some people get to worried to accepting more more means there already there

It's a politically motivated.

[crazy_rocks]

It's a politically motivated.

haha oops. you responded before i made my correction. what a odd sentence that is

[BigBadBob]

I asked my wife who happens to be black(immigrated from Jamacia). What do your friends think of Obama now. She said speaking about him seems taboo. Meaning basically he's an embarresment but critisizing him would be a violation of the Black Code(never side against a black person).