Obama care or Obama scare

**JD250** · 07-25-2012, 11:19 PM

For those of you who haven't been paying attention or are just plain easily fooled into believing anything your told.......things aren't always what they seem.........This is the line I found to be of particular interest...."This estimate doesn't come from opponents of the law, This is the updated projection from the MIT economist who designed the law."

I've had my share of criticism of Obamacare - well, maybe more than my share - but now we're beginning to find out even the parts of the law people seem to like are just creating new problems.

Take the part that would let kids stay on their parent's health plan until age 26. Despite what the administration thinks, that coverage isn't free.

According to the Department of Health and Human Services, the cost is as much as $3,400 per kid each year.

Insurers just pass that back onto the companies giving their employees benefits. What's the outcome?

Employers stop offering it.

One of the largest union-administered health insurance funds is now dropping dependent coverage for 30,000 employees. That's thousands of children that are losing insurance, all thanks to Obamacare's "expanded coverage."

So maybe the college-age kids should turn to their schools' student health plans, but that's turning into another disaster.

Colleges across the country are giving up their student health plans.

They've calculated the higher levels of coverage required by Obamacare would increase the cost of premiums by as much as a thousand percent.

And students at some Catholic universities are losing all their insurance because the schools have a moral objection to the requirement they offer contraceptive coverage.

Think you can just buy an individual plan for your kid? Think again.

The ban on discriminating against children with pre-existing conditions has been driving insurers out of the market.

Insurers in 20 states have given up offering child-only insurance plans.

So government regulations meant to protect kids are now punishing them.

And what about the promise that insurance would be cheaper?

The Cato Institute calculates Obamacare has already added 2%-3% to premium prices, and we're just starting to see these policies go into effect.

It's only going to get a lot worse. In the next four years, individuals will see their premiums go up 19% to 30%.

This estimate doesn't come from opponents of the law.

This is the updated projection from the MIT economist who designed the law.

Talk about unintended consequences.

The common thread in all of these Obamacare disasters is they're the result of the President promising us something for nothing.

But there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Someone has to pay, and it's us.

The rising cost of health care is one of the country's biggest problems, but it should be obvious making insurance more expensive isn't a solution.

It’s just a bigger problem.

**Rwy** · 07-25-2012, 11:53 PM

what is his name? You mentioned twice this is the mit economist. What exactly is that? Did he graduate from MIT with economics degree or does he currently teach economics?

**Rwy** · 07-25-2012, 11:55 PM

where you from jd250

**JD250** · 07-25-2012, 11:58 PM

This is a copied article from a major news source. Why do you want to know where I'm from?

**Rwy** · 07-26-2012, 12:21 AM

I am trying really hard to get this image out of my head about you and your opinion of politics.

Fox news being a major news source doesnt think its smart to put the MIT economists name in their article? Do you not find that odd?

So i am wondering if you live some where that should actual have an effect on this country and should be allowed to vote or do you think Obama is a terrorist anti christ that is going to let Bin Ladens cousin in through the back door of the white house.

I dont even support Obama but this article is ****ing awful

Catholic Church does not surprise me. They turn their back when children get molested by priests why wouldnt the biggest business in the country try and save money in other ways. The day religion is done in this country will be a great day

**gixxerboy1** · 07-26-2012, 01:02 AM

I can only speak from personal experience and from people i know. Half the shit you read is bullshit or leaned one way or the other.
My niece and nephew are still insured on my sisters plan because of the law. Their premium did not change.
I pay out of pocket for my wifes plan since 2008.. It has gone up every year by about $30 for the exact same plan. We just renewed in june and it was $20 cheaper then last year.
Members of my family own small business. Under 10 employees. They say the tax credit will help them give insurance to their employees.

**Honkey_Kong** · 07-26-2012, 06:56 AM

Eh, I'm pretty sure this article is heavily slanted to project the publisher's perspective.

Nonetheless, ObamaCARE isn't a perfect system, but it's an attempt at providing better care than the current system (that is failing).

Under our current system, somebody who has a pre-existing condition on record regardless to how healthy they are, can be excluded from coverage (unless they have specific illnesses like HIV, etc). I was a passenger in a car accident and I was severely injured 11 years ago and since then made a full recovery. I'm in better health than probably over 90% of the people who qualify for coverage, but every time I attempt to purchase health insurance, I'm denied.

You know how much a simple hospital visit costs? Earlier this year, I had to make an ER visit where I received 2 saline bags IV, CBC panel and a CT scan. Turned out I just had a bad case of the influenza and was severely dehydrated. This visit cost me a little over $7k in cash. Now if it were something major, that figure would've gone up quite a bit. In fact it's quite common for a serious illness to send a person who isn't covered in to bankruptcy. The current system is failing a good portion of the American public.

Obummer's plan is a good step in the right direction, but it's not perfect. I for one think they shouldn't have the right to force me to buy coverage or tax the shit out of me, but there is nothing that says that we as a whole cannot workout the problems with this plan as we go along. So to you nay-sayers, come up with something better. I'm sure if your idea works, they'd implement it.

**spywizard** · 07-26-2012, 07:11 AM

people don't understand insurance at all..

Just to be fair and apples to apples comparison.. i called State Farm (it was easier for me) to cover my family with a $5000 deductable 80/20 coverage $9600 yr simple plan really and common

my wife's Hospital employer offers a similar plan and that's what i'm modeling it after.. her share to pay on the plan at work $525 month same deductables and coverage..

so I can pay $800 a month for the family or the employer can pay $1050 per month..

IN the end it costs roughyly $5 per hour for a family health care plan.... we build that into the cost of a contract, I work as a consultant, my wife starts on the 30, quiting her employer and drinking from the trough of plenty..

Pre existing issues?? in a group plan after 30 days all employee's are covered, there's no such thing as a pre existing issue, and if a person has a condition, it's up to the policy owners to determine the length of time before the person and family are covered..

and

So it's bullshit, ...Medicaid has always paid for those that cannot afford health care no matter the "pre existing" issue.. you just have to put yourself in a position to take all the Gov tit in your mouth so to speak..

**gonejeepin** · 07-26-2012, 09:32 AM

Health care is something that I feel is impossible to get perfect, I'm not american, I live in canada where we have "free" health care. Its not free at all, we have income tax upwards of 40% depending on income level. If you don't have a plan through work, u pay for prescriptions, dental ..... . Now we don't have the worry of er visits costing 7k$ + like someone above described, I cannot begin to fathom that, but we do have other problems. Problems such as people who are a total drain on our system, they do not work, so we provide them with welfare, they do not take care of themselves so we provide them with loads of healthcare. Another problem is people come to this country (just to make it clear, I'm not racist, nor do I have a problem with immigration) just for the purpose of exploiting our healthcare system. People immigrate here , including seniors, who are in bad health and have never paid a dime in taxes towards our infrastructure and immidiately take advantage of our health care system, as well as CPP (canada pension plan) but that's a whole other story .....

**Rwy** · 07-26-2012, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

I can only speak from personal experience and from people i know. Half the shit you read is bullshit or leaned one way or the other.
My niece and nephew are still insured on my sisters plan because of the law. Their premium did not change.
I pay out of pocket for my wifes plan since 2008.. It has gone up every year by about $30 for the exact same plan. We just renewed in june and it was $20 cheaper then last year.
Members of my family own small business. Under 10 employees. They say the tax credit will help them give insurance to their employees.

I am getting on him a little bit because he likes to regurgitate news from FOX which is an absolute joke. Millions of people do it (including my parents) but its time people start thinking for themselves rather then being a party whore.

**SEOINAGE** · 07-26-2012, 12:14 PM

my insurance cost has increased dramatically in the past year, and coverage has been reduced. Much worse than before.

**haterade** · 07-26-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by gonejeepin

Health care is something that I feel is impossible to get perfect, I'm not american, I live in canada where we have "free" health care. Its not free at all, we have income tax upwards of 40% depending on income level. If you don't have a plan through work, u pay for prescriptions, dental ..... . Now we don't have the worry of er visits costing 7k$ + like someone above described, I cannot begin to fathom that, but we do have other problems. Problems such as people who are a total drain on our system, they do not work, so we provide them with welfare, they do not take care of themselves so we provide them with loads of healthcare. Another problem is people come to this country (just to make it clear, I'm not racist, nor do I have a problem with immigration) just for the purpose of exploiting our healthcare system. People immigrate here , including seniors, who are in bad health and have never paid a dime in taxes towards our infrastructure and immidiately take advantage of our health care system, as well as CPP (canada pension plan) but that's a whole other story .....

we have the same ppl in the us but they have no healthcare so if they get a little scrape or something they go to the er because they have no pcp while not having insurance.. which costs a boat load more than visiting a pcp.. so we give these types of ppl the treatment that they need because they cant turn anyone away... what happens now is the bill is not paid and they raise prices to take care of this.. our insurance pays higher bills and pow.. we pay higher insurance rates.. if they would have had insurance in the first place then they would have had a way smaller bill and well you can see where im going with this..

**gonejeepin** · 07-26-2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by haterade

we have the same ppl in the us but they have no healthcare so if they get a little scrape or something they go to the er because they have no pcp while not having insurance.. which costs a boat load more than visiting a pcp.. so we give these types of ppl the treatment that they need because they cant turn anyone away... what happens now is the bill is not paid and they raise prices to take care of this.. our insurance pays higher bills and pow.. we pay higher insurance rates.. if they would have had insurance in the first place then they would have had a way smaller bill and well you can see where im going with this..

Its a pretty interesting comparison, I guess at the end of the day, no matter what system is adopted, there will always be dead weight that costs everyone else extra $ .

**frank13** · 07-26-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Rwy2778

I am trying really hard to get this image out of my head about you and your opinion of politics.

Fox news being a major news source doesnt think its smart to put the MIT economists name in their article? Do you not find that odd?

So i am wondering if you live some where that should actual have an effect on this country and should be allowed to vote or do you think Obama is a terrorist anti christ that is going to let Bin Ladens cousin in through the back door of the white house.

I dont even support Obama but this article is ****ing awful

Catholic Church does not surprise me. They turn their back when children get molested by priests why wouldnt the biggest business in the country try and save money in other ways. The day religion is done in this country will be a great day

jd250 man u just got served

**fit2bOld** · 07-27-2012, 07:07 AM

As a small business owner I look forward to 2014 when I can then buy into a larger pool of insured to bring my costs down. I can then continue to provide insurance coverage to my employees. If the current system isn't changed my people will be losing there coverage soon. I was recently contacted by the Insurance Company the rate is going up 18% and they have a request in for another 18%.

Don't believe all the hype of Fox News.

**JD250** · 07-27-2012, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rwy2778

So i am wondering if you live some where that should actual have an effect on this country and should be allowed to vote or do you think Obama is a terrorist anti christ that is going to let Bin Ladens cousin in through the back door of the white house.

Pay attention folks........the above is what it looks like when a flaming liberal steps on his dick.......thats fvcking typical of you all knowing liberals......because I have views that differ from yours you get butt hurt and claim that I don't deserve to have a say in anything.......absolutely brilliant and perfectly in line with whiney ass liberal thinking.....by the way genius, what party am I affiliated with? Why don't you explain Obama care to us in depth since all I have is shitty articles from Fox news.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-27-2012, 02:14 PM

ok, no flaming. We normally dont even allow politics threads because they turn into fights. Since they have been civil they havent been locked.

Everyone is allowed to have a different opinion. No need to name call because of it

**gixxerboy1** · 07-27-2012, 02:22 PM

i saw an interview with someone from the CBO. They said repealing the health care law would increase the deficit by 109 billion. I did not hear over how many years that was.

**JD250** · 07-27-2012, 03:18 PM

My bad, no need to flame anyone. Gixx, I've seen reports that go both ways, and not through a news reporters opinion......so how do we know what to expect? I've heard ins companies say it will raise rates and now people here are saying they've heard the opposite? I know one thing for sure and I think everyone will agree........NOTHING IS FREE....yes? So who pays and when is the bill due?

**gixxerboy1** · 07-27-2012, 03:23 PM

i think alot of people who should have been paying will be. The people who have no insurance. We are paying for them now.
I honestly dont know how anyone can predict it. So if everyone does get insurance that doesnt have it. The insurance companies will take in more money. The hospitals and doctors will take in more since they will actually get paid. Now how much will insurance companies actually have to pay out since they will be insuring more. healthy and unhealthy people. Who knows. I think that is where alot of predictions comes from.

**Rwy** · 07-27-2012, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by JD250;60***44

Pay attention folks........the above is what it looks like when a flaming liberal steps on his dick.......thats fvcking typical of you all knowing liberals......because I have views that differ from yours you get butt hurt and claim that I don't deserve to have a say in anything.......absolutely brilliant and perfectly in line with whiney ass liberal thinking.....by the way genius, what party am I affiliated with? Why don't you explain Obama care to us in depth since all I have is shitty articles from Fox news.

I am a registered republican. Voted for Obama bc it was the lesser of two evils which will be the case for this election coming forward again but I will probably not partake in. I can honestly say in all my years of being able to vote I feel like I have made a mistake.

Let me do one better and share my personal experience with it. I was misdiagnosed with a sprained ankle (ended up being a broken ankle) by an er dr while playing in a basketball game when I was 18. It healed horribly wrong and I was walking with a limp by time I was 25. Which is 7 years later past the SOL. A few years later lost my job and insurance and when I got a new job and insurance they would not pay for my surgery. I started to walk around with a really bad limp at age 30. I was in terrible pain everyday. Days where I thought about cutting my foot off. So bad my parents thought about mortgaging their house to pay 40k surgery and then Obama put forth obama care and I got a 40k surgery that was covered by insurance.

My point is if you are going to try and bash something try not using fox. Try not to think because I disagree with you means I am a liberal.

**JD250** · 07-27-2012, 06:26 PM

You're preaching to the chior, I spent many years in agonizing pain waiting for an affordable surgery for my back, I finally got it....... without Obama care. Is Obama care even in effect enough at this time to make the sort of differences that are being talked about in this thread, and again.....who pays the bill? Gixx, I think you're wrong about all the uninsured making up for whats lacking, most don't have a pot to piss in or they wouldn't be uninsured now. Don't worry, I don't view Fox as any different than any other source but just out curiosity fellas.....where do you get your information about Obamacare?

**gixxerboy1** · 07-27-2012, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by JD250

You're preaching to the chior, I spent many years in agonizing pain waiting for an affordable surgery for my back, I finally got it....... without Obama care. Is Obama care even in effect enough at this time to make the sort of differences that are being talked about in this thread, and again.....who pays the bill? Gixx, I think you're wrong about all the uninsured making up for whats lacking, most don't have a pot to piss in or they wouldn't be uninsured now. Don't worry, I don't view Fox as any different than any other source but just out curiosity fellas.....where do you get your information about Obamacare?

i think alot more then just the poor dont have it. Its alot of people with pre existing conditions who couldnt get it before. It was kids under 25 who didnt have jobs that offered it or could afford it on their own. I have friends who dont have it and can afford it. Their opinion is i rarely get sick. i'll just pay $100 if i have to goto the dr. I really feel its more then just the poor.

**Rwy** · 07-27-2012, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by JD250

You're preaching to the chior, I spent many years in agonizing pain waiting for an affordable surgery for my back, I finally got it....... without Obama care. Is Obama care even in effect enough at this time to make the sort of differences that are being talked about in this thread, and again.....who pays the bill? Gixx, I think you're wrong about all the uninsured making up for whats lacking, most don't have a pot to piss in or they wouldn't be uninsured now. Don't worry, I don't view Fox as any different than any other source but just out curiosity fellas.....where do you get your information about Obamacare?

Its impossible to get neutral information on anything anymore. Thats how sad our country is. Politics has effected the news now also.

**Times Roman** · 07-28-2012, 07:01 AM

Mate,
First. Didn't vote for Obama. Second. Won't be voting for Obama. That out of the way....

There is a reason i don't buy into this spin meister crap.

Let's look at just one piece of this propoganda...

"One of the largest union-administered health insurance funds is now dropping dependent coverage for 30,000 employees."

How do we know this to be a true statement? The spin is there is a cause (extended dependent coverage) and effect (dropping dependent coverage). But I've been around long enough to know that this may not always be the case. Is it possible that this coverage was going to be dropped, ANYWAYS? We do not know the reason WHY this coverage was dropped, regardless of what the author of this piece claims. These two events could be totally independent of one another. In this age of misinformation, one must learn to think critically, and part of that process is to not believe everything you hear/read/see.

Sure, insurance costs are high. But the union administered health plan could have seen it's membership dropping for years (probably true), and as the ranks dwindle, the union must look for ways to cut costs. This could easily have been the scapegoat the union was looking for to finally drop this coverage?

See, we really don't know why. Until we do, it would be nice if the propoganda mills didn't have so many eager recipients

**JD250** · 07-28-2012, 02:10 PM

I understand what you're saying Times, and I don't believe everything I hear, that's why I don't believe a damn thing coming from this administration or their ilk.....they have done nothing but lie since the day they took this country away from the people........now, that being said would you not agree that it's a safer bet to NOT trust ANYTHING they put forth as "good for the people" as opposed to accepting their healthcare plan without question......Nancy Pelosi said it best when she proclaimed that we will just have to pass the law to see what it's all about...........so as far as thinking critically goes.... lets all get started by taking a close look at the magic ones track record.........Don't worry about the media, take a look at whats right in front of you.

**JD250** · 07-28-2012, 02:13 PM

BTW......I posted that article to start a conversation not proclaim it as my solid belief, I've long ago drawn factual based conclusions on our current socialist regime.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-28-2012, 02:20 PM

I dont think the left bullshits and lies and more then the right. I dont take anything anyone of them say at face value. I wouldnt trust anything Boehner or Cantor say either.
Also i dont see how this health care law is socialist. Its not. Its making you use the private market. It has been a republican idea for almost 20 years

**JD250** · 07-28-2012, 02:44 PM

Govt. forcing us to do what's "good for us" is a socialist action......some folks can't wipe their own asses without help.....I'm fairly self sufficient and quite like it that way.

I agree....left or right makes no difference, they are crooks and liars.......I lean right but don't agree with a lot of what they do either.....I was first in line to rip GW when he instated the patriot act during a time when everyone was emotional.....goodbye rights, but by golly we got to shove a broomstick up some terrorists ass so we should all feel better about it now.......no sir, I don't care much for the right either.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-28-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by JD250

Govt. forcing us to do what's "good for us" is a socialist action......some folks can't wipe their own asses without help.....I'm fairly self sufficient and quite like it that way.

I agree with that. But right now the gov is forced to do what is good for alot of people. All the people that goto the ER for a sore throat. We are all paying for. That is socialist. So make them get health insurance and pay for themselves.
There are 3 choices as i see it
1: free health care like Europe and Canada
2: make everyone buy insurance
3: let the people who dont have insurance pay cash. And if they dont have the money turn them away. To bad your having a heart attack. Credit card or leave.

**JD250** · 07-28-2012, 03:18 PM

Sounds simple but unfortunately it isn't, again lets look at history, even from the most basic and broad sweeping perspective can you name ONE social problem that the Govt. actually made better by getting involved......I agree with most Americans, we need to do something and we should focus on this problem, I'm a little worried about a solution that only a few people in the world have read from front to back and absolutely NOBODY knows what the long term effects will be nor how far reaching they will be, and most concerning is that our elected representatives voted on this issue blindly, not one of these buttholes has read the thing or even vaguely understands it, thats a job for experts I guess.........the whole thing has disaster written all over it......lets start over and keep it simple and give the people time see what is REALLY being proposed.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-28-2012, 03:21 PM

not a perfect system but you dont think
medicare or social security was an improvement

**JD250** · 07-30-2012, 04:39 PM

Medicare has little value, mostly abused......social security is a joke and broke.....why would anyone be OK with someone taking your money with a promise that they might return it someday, no thanks I believe I can invest much more wisely and for those who cant......I guess they should've paid attention in school.