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  1. #1
    evander87's Avatar
    evander87 is offline Senior Member
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    Long ester test thoughts

    Ok so I've been thinking about long ester tests. Numbers are purely hypothetical for discussions sake. Say you have a test level of 300 you pin test e or c now it's said that it doesn't "kick in" for 10-14 days. But doesn't the body start working on the esters as soon as they are introduced to the body? I mean so you start at 300 and 24 hours later shouldn't your test level be up? Say 325 and another 24 hours up to 375 and so on until all the esters have been burnt off? I mean it's not like the esters hold of and all of a sudden after 10 days they just magically disappear.

  2. #2
    JohnnyVegas's Avatar
    JohnnyVegas is offline Knowledgeable Member- Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    You are correct that the release of Test is gradual. It doesn't just hit like a sledge hammer one day.

    Other people more knowledgeable will chime in, but here are a few things to think about:

    You natural levels don't really matter because they are in the process of being shut down. Exogenous Test does not add to your natural level - it replaces it.

    Long esters don't kick in after 10-14 days. More like four weeks to achieve your target blood levels.

  3. #3
    evander87's Avatar
    evander87 is offline Senior Member
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    Great points thanks.

    So now I wonder if your natty test production gets shut down does that happen gradually too or is it all of a sudden?

    I also wonder about the timing of PCT too. If the optimal test levels take 4 weeks and common practice is to start PCT 2 weeks after last pinning it seems to me that you unnatural test levels would still be off the charts. Can you fire up production of natty test while you still have un natural levels in your body?

    Thanks for your input Johnny since there is not a lot of scientific research on this stuff discussions like this help me wrap my head around this stuff better.

  4. #4
    JohnnyVegas's Avatar
    JohnnyVegas is offline Knowledgeable Member- Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    Quote Originally Posted by evander87 View Post
    Great points thanks.

    So now I wonder if your natty test production gets shut down does that happen gradually too or is it all of a sudden?

    I also wonder about the timing of PCT too. If the optimal test levels take 4 weeks and common practice is to start PCT 2 weeks after last pinning it seems to me that you unnatural test levels would still be off the charts. Can you fire up production of natty test while you still have un natural levels in your body?

    Thanks for your input Johnny since there is not a lot of scientific research on this stuff discussions like this help me wrap my head around this stuff better.
    I have ZERO understanding of PCT, but I hope some people chime in as I would like to read the answers to those questions as well.

  5. #5
    SEOINAGE's Avatar
    SEOINAGE is offline Anabolic Member
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    Like he said it replaces it. So sure the endogenous test will decrease as your bring in exogenous test, but you don't count the endo test with your new test levels. So if you pinned once your test levels would start to rise, then your endo test decreases, then later based on the half life of the exo test you take it will start to decrease, and of course if you don't take another shot you will be lower test levels than before your shot. so it really has to be built up because of the esters.


    And as far as I know you can't jump start your endo production until your levels are brought back down to physiological levels. say something has a half life of 7, in two weeks it the amount in you would be down to 1/4 of what it was, so maybe you would still have high test after that, but I thought with Test Cyp you wait 18 days for pct? But I really don't know if you want to initialize the jump start first, I would imagine it doesn't hurt especially if you are pumping massive amounts of HCG into you if you didn't do it during cycle. It sounds like worrying about it too much won't help, just that its pointless to start pct when you have really high and great test levels still in you for a while that will hurt signaling to your hypothalamus that you need more test.

    I dunno if my rambling helps any, but like Johnny I am sure others know more about this than me.

  6. #6
    evander87's Avatar
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    Seoinage yeah I enjoyed your reply. Some days I'm bored at work and I get to think about things and aas is one of the thing I tend to think about. I'm always looking for more information and intelligent discussions of the stuff.

    The whole "I'm 20 and wanna use tren and var" threads get a little old. lol.

  7. #7
    AD's Avatar
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    Fertil Steril. 1987 Jun;47(6):1004-9.
    Hormone kinetics after intramuscular testosterone cypionate.
    Nankin HR.
    Abstract

    There have not been reports analyzing in detail the reproductive hormone changes in hypogonadal men after usual therapeutic injections of testosterone cypionate (TC). In 11 hypogonadal men 200 mg intramuscular TC caused a threefold rise in serum T (peak values, days 2 to 5), a 33% increase in % free T (%FT) (days 2 to 7), and a 4.5-fold rise of absolute FT (peak on days 2 to 3), a 66% increase in % nonsex hormone-binding globulin-bound T (%non-SHBG-T) (peak days 2 to 7), a sixfold increase in absolute non-SHBG-T (peak days 4 to 5), and a threefold rise of estradiol (days 2 to 7). Many of the men achieved androgen concentrations (T, FT, and non-SHBG-T) above the respective normal concentrations between days 2 and 7; then steroid values declined to basal levels by days 13 to 14. Non-SHBG-T showed the largest-fold absolute increase and on day 4 to day 5 averaged three times the mean in normal men. Five men achieved non-SHBG-T values several times the upper limit of our total normal range. Luteinizing hormone became suppressed in men receiving their first intramuscular TC injection and remained suppressed in men receiving chronic TC. Thus, in hypogonadal men, biweekly injections of 200 mg TC result in wide variations in circulating androgen levels, from high to elevated shortly after intramuscular TC declining to basal by days 13 to 14.



    i found this old study on a small sample group using testC. it seems like after a pin, serum peak values are reached within a wk. however, this does not translate to actual physical growth immediately. from elevated serum test levels to actual visible growth, there are probably a dozen other receptors and mediators involved. thats why users only feel the effect kick in 4-6wks into the cycle.

  8. #8
    wh1spa's Avatar
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    Solid Reply 'Asiandude' Makes alot more sense now for those of us that were wondering.


    Col.

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