Bad Health, Gyno and life sucks right now

[Razor]

I really feel like Im in bad health. I am still battling gyno everyday. Doctors dont know what is going on, so far all my labs check out. I'm having chest pain a lot and tiredness. I dont know if taking all this anti-estrogen stuff is making it worse or better. I was at the gym today sucking wind after every set which never happens. I was putting up heavy weight but just thrown after ever set. Im running 25mg of Aromasin ED and 40mg of nolva. 25mg of Aromasin makes me sore all over and my joints sore, but if I only run 12.5 of aromasin the gyno gets worse and flares up again. I really think I am going to have to start letro. Im hoping that will help and that I get it soon.

What weird is its only in my right nipple, it gets really puffy in the AM, so I go downstairs, dose 12.5mg of Aromi mid day nolva 40mg and night 12.5 aromi again. Somedays there is a hard nodule behind the nipple, other days there is not, just puffy and sore. None of this makes any sense.

Whats frustrating is I dont know what is going on and neither does anyone else.
Labs so far
Test 574ng/dl
Prolactin 3.7ng/ml
Progesterone <0.1ng/ml
These check out

Its like pulling teeth to get my doctor to check my estrogen which he still has not done, I called him today and he would not check it so Im going to a different doctor on the 9th of August which seems like ages away. Its just does not seem right to have this much problems with gyno when no cycle is being ran, I have not been on peptides in weeks now which I think brought this whole thing on.

Atomi has been helping me a lot but we still cant get to the bottom of this nightmare. Anyone got any ideas besides getting the estrogen checked which has not happened. Hoping I can twist the doctors arm into checking it. Anyhow its got to be lower because if totally fatigued and joints are sore so that most likely means really low estrogen?

I dont feel like my self at all in the gym or outside. Im getting another lab done tomorrow for lipids which will probably check out fine....

Any ideas?

[MuscleInk]

Stop eating Wendy's you fool. I'm gonna bitch slap you when I see you!!! Lol

[gearbox]

You may have been over this, it can your ai be bad or under dosed. 25 mg a day is a lot.

[Razor]

You may have been over this, it can your ai be bad or under dosed. 25 mg a day is a lot.

Its all from Ar. Its legit stuff. 25mg ed is a lot I know, but its the only thing keeping it in check. But I dont feel like its making it better.
Nolvadex works by binding to the estrogen receptors in the body, preventing estrogen from binding to these sites correct? If so doing that plus eliminating the estrogen and Anti aromatases on the other hand block the formation of estrogen in the body in the first place. They do this, by blocking the enzyme aromatase which is responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, so there is less estrogen circulating in the blood. In a sense, an anti aromatase such as Aromasin takes care of the problem right from it's root. So this treatment should work.

Have you ever had gyno?

[Razor]

Stop eating Wendy's you fool. I'm gonna bitch slap you when I see you!!! Lol

I knew I was gonna hear about this from you. Dont be jealous, its the first time I had Wendy's in like 5 years so bitch slap avoided!
Anyways in all seriousness you the doctor right? Gimmie a diagnosis or theory as to wtf is going on??

[MuscleInk]

I knew I was gonna hear about this from you. Dont be jealous, its the first time I had Wendy's in like 5 years so bitch slap avoided!
Anyways in all seriousness you the doctor right? Gimmie a diagnosis or theory as to wtf is going on??

It's symptomatic for estrogen issues. Any associated pain - joint/muscle? Doesn't sound thyroid related but would be good to see normal values. I'd be recommending letro at this point but I'd like to see your E levels. Suppressing too much E is as much a problem as too little. How about growth levels. We've discussed this before. Excessive insulin /growth can cause water retention and fatigue. I doubt that's the issue but a ddx is best made when as much info as possible is available.

......I'm still gonna slap you for Wendy's....5 yrs or not!

[Razor]

It's symptomatic for estrogen issues. Any associated pain - joint/muscle? Doesn't sound thyroid related but would be good to see normal values. I'd be recommending letro at this point but I'd like to see your E levels. Suppressing too much E is as much a problem as too little. How about growth levels. We've discussed this before. Excessive insulin /growth can cause water retention and fatigue. I doubt that's the issue but a ddx is best made when as much info as possible is available.

......I'm still gonna slap you for Wendy's....5 yrs or not!

Yea man, like I said still have not gotten the doc to get labs for estrogen. What lab do you recommend for getting blood work? Growth lvls last time I checked they were high, I dont remember the lvl but that was when I was running lots of gh, Im only at 2.5iu ed right now cause Im running low. Thyroid is fine.TSH last time it was checked about 2 months ago was 2.5

Aromasin at 25mg ed should be doing just as much as what letro can do. Like I said still waiting on the letro to show up, will start that as soon as I get it.

[Vettester]

Razor, you can get a E2 sensitive assay with privatelabsmd.com, which will discreetly set you up at your local Labcorp. http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...Estradiol#1001
I've got a coupon for 15% off if you or anyone is interested.
Just saying ... If you're frustrated with the doctor, and unsure of the next one (+ copays and all that jazz), then going this route might make more sense.

Also, Letrozole (IMO) would be the best compound going that might actually help reverse some of gyno, as it inhibits more than 98% of the estrogen in your body. It's very effective, but quite potent, as I know from experience. Your E2 will crash hard, there's no way around it, and that Nolva will be your BF when the estrogen rebound kicks in after the protocol. Read this thread by C Bino if you haven't already, as it provides some excellent insight http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UBhqBaD4KwR

And as Muscleink stated, get the labs first prior to considering anything of this nature.

[Atomini]

This is why i'm reccomending a full hormone panel to find out exactly what's going on. I find it extremely stupid that doc wouldn't check estrogen.

I thought the protocol I laid out for Razor would solve everything, and for a couple of weeks there it really did get rid of everything. What I find odd is that the gyno still flares back up when you back off on the Aromasin ... its supposed to be a suicidal inhibitor.

I'm starting to think that maybe the aromasin isn't aromasin, and that it perhaps got switched up as letro or something by mistake... This is all puzzling me.

[Razor]

Razor, you can get a E2 sensitive assay with privatelabsmd.com, which will discreetly set you up at your local Labcorp. http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...Estradiol#1001
I've got a coupon for 15% off if you or anyone is interested.
Just saying ... If you're frustrated with the doctor, and unsure of the next one (+ copays and all that jazz), then going this route might make more sense.

Also, Letrozole (IMO) would be the best compound going that might actually help reverse some of gyno, as it inhibits more than 98% of the estrogen in your body. It's very effective, but quite potent, as I know from experience. Your E2 will crash hard, there's no way around it, and that Nolva will be your BF when the estrogen rebound kicks in after the protocol. Read this thread by C Bino if you haven't already, as it provides some excellent insight http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UBhqBaD4KwR

Thanks man! I really appreciate it, I am expecting a crash with the letro. Once I start I will stop the aromasin and should I keep the nolva at the same dose 40mg ED or go up to 60mg? I read C_Binos thread a few times, thats the main reason why I ordered the letro. At first we didn't think it was necessary so I didn't start with it, but I am def going to start it now. Ill call that lab right now and get something on the books if possible tomorrow. Do you really think the missing estrogen lvls are the missing link here since thats the only thing that has not been looked at?

Sucks C_Bino has not been online in over two years:/

Since I had the other labs done, should I do another full hormone panel or just the Estrogen Testing, Comprehensive Panel?

[Razor]

This is why i'm reccomending a full hormone panel to find out exactly what's going on. I find it extremely stupid that doc wouldn't check estrogen.

I thought the protocol I laid out for Razor would solve everything, and for a couple of weeks there it really did get rid of everything. What I find odd is that the gyno still flares back up when you back off on the Aromasin ... its supposed to be a suicidal inhibitor.

I'm starting to think that maybe the aromasin isn't aromasin, and that it perhaps got switched up as letro or something by mistake... This is all puzzling me.

I trust ar-r 100%, so unless Liquid Stane is not aromasin then that cant be it. I dont know what color there letro is, the stane is a peach/yellow colored and tastes kinda citrus as well.

[Atomini]

Thanks man! I really appreciate it, I am expecting a crash with the letro. Once I start I will stop the aromasin and should I keep the nolva at the same dose 40mg ED or go up to 60mg? I read C_Binos thread a few times, thats the main reason why I ordered the letro. At first we didn't think it was necessary so I didn't start with it, but I am def going to start it now. Ill call that lab right now and get something on the books if possible tomorrow. Do you really think the missing estrogen lvls are the missing link here since thats the only thing that has not been looked at?

This is what I firmly believe. And I said this to you WEEKS ago, remember? I couldn't believe that asshat of a doctor checks everything EXCEPT ESTROGEN for a patient who came to him about fvcking gynocomastia!!!

Until you find out for sure what's going on with your estrogen levels, you're just shooting in the dark here.

[marcus300]

What do you expect abusing peptides and insulin . You weren't ready for them! Come off everything get full panel done and rest the body. Your body is trying to tell you something, listen to it.

[cherrydrpepper]

Some joint pain is normal from lifting and aas. I remember someone I want to say Haz had a doc check him out and the doc basically said aas makes your muscles blow up but degrades the joint tissue. Recently at work one of the biggest dudes tore a pec this dude is 230 almost all muscle. I said what were you lifting he was like 265 or some shit kind of made me go huh. I have two schools of thought first there is something to be said about slow negatives and squeezing the contraction versus throwing it up and second people lift weights all their life but its kind of like just eating pizza and burgers the body dont like that they body wants crossfit and running swimming climbing etc the body doesn't want the same static movements every week for the best health result just my opinion.

[Razor]

This is what I firmly believe. And I said this to you WEEKS ago, remember? I couldn't believe that asshat of a doctor checks everything EXCEPT ESTROGEN for a patient who came to him about fvcking gynocomastia!!!

Until you find out for sure what's going on with your estrogen levels, you're just shooting in the dark here.

Word

[Razor]

What do you expect abusing peptides and insulin. You weren't ready for them! Come off everything get full panel done and rest the body. Your body is trying to tell you something, listen to it.

How do you come to that conclusion on abusing peptides. I was at maximum effect dose of ghrp-2/mod gfr-1 100mcg 3-4 times a day. Unless it was not ghrp-2 or the other and it was something else. As far as slin I have not read anything to support gyno resulting from slin. But Ill come off it if you think thats what should be done and give everything a rest, hell Ill come off the gh too if you think its necessary.

[Atomini]

Razor, marcus might be on to something. Last ditch effort to clear this gyno might have to involve you halting EVERYTHING except for the stuff you're using to treat your gyno.

[Razor]

Razor, marcus might be on to something. Last ditch effort to clear this gyno might have to involve you halting EVERYTHING except for the stuff you're using to treat your gyno.

I agree. Ill get off everything cept stane, letro and nolva.

[Atomini]

Don't take the aromasin and letro at the same time. Bad idea. If you're going to use letro, stop the aromasin.

[Razor]

Don't take the aromasin and letro at the same time. Bad idea. If you're going to use letro, stop the aromasin.

Yea I know my bad, what I meant was Ill run the stane till the letro shows up and Ill run option #1, so day 1 I will still run the stane and letro together then the rest of he days just the letro.

From C_Bino
1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

[Razor]

See this is what Im talking about right now there is barley a lump behind but its still puffy. 8 hours from now, who knows, might have a lump the size or a strawberry. But Im getting off everything but the recommended stuff posted.

[MuscleInk]

This is why i'm reccomending a full hormone panel to find out exactly what's going on. I find it extremely stupid that doc wouldn't check estrogen.

I thought the protocol I laid out for Razor would solve everything, and for a couple of weeks there it really did get rid of everything. What I find odd is that the gyno still flares back up when you back off on the Aromasin ... its supposed to be a suicidal inhibitor.

I'm starting to think that maybe the aromasin isn't aromasin, and that it perhaps got switched up as letro or something by mistake... This is all puzzling me.

Unless he is seeing an endocrinologist, some docs wouldn't think to check this automatically. I agree, it's ridiculous but I've seen more blatant omissions in medicine because docs aren't looking at a bigger picture of disease diagnosis or because insurance limitations confound a good ddx.

[Razor]

Vett when you get a chance could you pm me the discount code, thx!

[Atomini]

Unless he is seeing an endocrinologist, some docs wouldn't think to check this automatically. I agree, it's ridiculous but I've seen more blatant omissions in medicine because docs aren't looking at a bigger picture of disease diagnosis or because insurance limitations confound a good ddx.

Oh yes, I am well aware. I posted about this in Razor's return thread.

[Razor]

I guess im lucky that im not losing muscle mass or strength and holding the same weight and bf, at least that is good thing is going right for me right now. So trying to stay positive as possible. The workouts are definitely harder though.

[Vettester]

PM sent. Make sure to get the sensitive assay, which is the standard for E2 panels for males.

Agree with others ... Quit the peptides and any hormones until you get things sorted out.

[JAB1]

I dont know much but I agree that you should get off everything except estro control to eliminate all variables until you get it under control... Id get off gh, ins, peps, etc completely!

[RaginCajun]

What do you expect abusing peptides and insulin. You weren't ready for them! Come off everything get full panel done and rest the body. Your body is trying to tell you something, listen to it.

^^^^this. i believe your body needs a lil break

[Misery13]

I agree with marcus300. I have never had full on gyno, but my nipples have gotten a little pp iffy and sensitive. When that happened I stopped my cycle and did a full blown pct. It cleared up. I waited my alloted time off before starting my next cycle and all was well.

[Razor]

yes im getting off everything

[DSM4Life]

You need to drop everything and get back to normal.

[< <Samson> >]

What do you expect abusing peptides and insulin. You weren't ready for them! Come off everything get full panel done and rest the body. Your body is trying to tell you something, listen to it.

You forgot GH. . . . I guess the sauce wasn't enough ey?

[SexySweetheart]

good luck razr...I know how hard it is to have a friggan Dr test hormone levels (and Im a girl for crist sake, all girls go threw menupause ~ whats the effing prob?) i seriously dont get what is up with these Dr being soooo affraid and seemingly uneducated with this stuff...


hope it all works out for you!

[Razor]

You forgot GH. . . . I guess the sauce wasn't enough ey?

Which sauce?

[Shol'va]

Sounds like you have that ancient Hawaiian Disease Lackanookie....

[evander87]

Hey Razor sorry you're going through this and I don't have any advice but there could be some good to come from this. You could do a write up for noobs to read on the importance of stacking one compound at a time until you learn how your body reacts to what.

Hope you get this sh!t sorted out brah

[Razor]

Hey Razor sorry you're going through this and I don't have any advice but there could be some good to come from this. You could do a write up for noobs to read on the importance of stacking one compound at a time until you learn how your body reacts to what.

Hope you get this sh!t sorted out brah

Thanks man, I will get it sorted out, with everyone help im sure this will clear up. Going to get my labs done right now

[< <Samson> >]

Which sauce?

I was referring to good ol' fashioned juice. You had to hit the slin & gh < fvck gh at a young age. Maybe when I am close to 50 or so.

[Razor]

OK labs done, gh makes you insulin resistant that's why i was stacking it with slin.

[SEOINAGE]

Just remember all the feelings you are having and how hard it is is not real, not really you, and just a problem you need to fix. Suppress emotions much? I know this is getting you down, but try not to let it too much... you will get better, and there are some good doctors out there that can help you get over this and come back on top if needed.