Update

**Razor** · 08-05-2012, 10:32 PM

Good news is the Gyno is getting better,, bad news is letro at 2mg Ed sucks. Like really sucks, I barely have moved today and didn't leave the house, just kills all motivation. 4 more days of this and I'll cycle down the dose and come off and just continue nolvadex . Tired all day, everything is sore, no sex drive. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. Weird feelings all the time too. Thanks for everyone's support and guidance. Only a little bit more to go, just have to keep going. I have kept all my strength in the gym though and not lost any weight. So grateful for that. I'll keep you guys posted as this progresses.

I also bought some dht cream im going to use to give me a picker up and help clear this up faster. I've heard good things about it and with its help with reversing Gyno and it's more effective than andro gel or the other test creams due to no conversions. So hopefully things keep improving. As far as the rest of my health hard to see improvements with all the side effects from letro but I do feel better being off everything else. Still waiting on my labs back, but I have another dr. Appointment on the 9th.
Special thanks to Atomi and Marcus for all the help.

**gearbox** · 08-05-2012, 10:41 PM

Sounds like progress has been made

good luck

**austinite** · 08-05-2012, 10:42 PM

Glad you're making progress bro.

**GirlyGymRat** · 08-06-2012, 08:19 AM

Does this mean that men feel moody, tired cuz they have gyno or is moodiness a side effect from meds to treat it?

Mr razor is going thru this and I just don't know what ya'll mean by gyno!?! It sounds awful!!!

**HitIt** · 08-06-2012, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat

Does this mean that men feel moody, tired cuz they have gyno or is moodiness a side effect from meds to treat it?

Mr razor is going thru this and I just don't know what ya'll mean by gyno!?! It sounds awful!!!

the drugs make him feel like shit and growing tits has him depressed.

gyno is when a person starts to develop female breast characteristics. surely you understand that since you were 12 once. and yes it's awful for a guy. it would be like you growing a beard or developing male pattern baldness.

**Times Roman** · 08-06-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by HitIt

the drugs make him feel like shit and growing tits has him depressed.

gyno is when a person starts to develop female breast characteristics. surely you understand that since you were 12 once. and yes it's awful for a guy. it would be like you growing a beard or developing male pattern baldness.

well, there is a business opportunity here! if the letro don't work, he could take a second job as a wet nurse? =)

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

well, there is a business opportunity here! if the letro don't work, he could take a second job as a wet nurse? =)

I think I'm going to start talking the letro at night since it makes me really tired. And hopefully just sleep off the side effects

**HitIt** · 08-06-2012, 11:47 AM

what level was your estrogen at?

**Times Roman** · 08-06-2012, 11:50 AM

are you avoiding the gym during this time or just hitting it lightly?

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

are you avoiding the gym during this time or just hitting it lightly?

I was hitting it hard last week but I'm at 2mg Ed on the letro, today I had to hit it really lightly cause it's taking everything out of me. Letro kills everything seems like good and bad, it does not differentiate.

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by HitIt

what level was your estrogen at?

Estradiol sensitive results are 23pg/ml

Anyone know if that's good or bad?

**Vettester** · 08-06-2012, 01:38 PM

On a sensitive assay, that's a GREAT score. As mentioned, anything from 20pg to 30pg is excellent!

**HitIt** · 08-06-2012, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Razor

Estradiol sensitive results are 23pg/ml

Anyone know if that's good or bad?

but you were on stane and/or letro by the time you got your e2 checked right?

**Misery13** · 08-06-2012, 01:58 PM

Sounds like your almost all healed up. Stay motivated brother.

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by HitIt

but you were on stane and/or letro by the time you got your e2 checked right?

I was on the stane, the test was last Tuesday, so I'm sure my estrogen has crashed. I started the letro on wed. I'm going to start tapering down this week then starting the dht cream when it shows up and continue the nolvadex

I took off work this week cause I can't work like this. I'm just going to go to the gym 30min a day and the rest of the time, just going too lay on the couch.

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 07:13 PM

Yep I have hit rock bottom. Im prolly at 0.5 or less. Gym is getting harder and I cant turn my head left cause my entire upper right back is cramped and locked up. Im going to start tapering down tomorrow instead of waiting till the end of the week to start, I cant do this one more day. ill continue with the nolva and just start the dht cream on my right nipple as soon as it gets here.

**ImBlue** · 08-06-2012, 07:22 PM

ouch... sounds like a body cramp..

dude I feel for you on that.. never taken steroids .. but I know what it feels like not able to move your head and back locking up.. hot tub?

**Atomini** · 08-06-2012, 07:31 PM

Yeah, looks like your E2 readings are good. How is the tissue behind the nipple coming along? Is it receding? I would say that since your estrogen levels are fine, taper off the letro and get off it. Keep on the nolvadex , and try out the DHT cream, it may help in receding/eliminating the gyno tissue quicker.

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

Yeah, looks like your E2 readings are good. How is the tissue behind the nipple coming along? Is it receding? I would say that since your estrogen levels are fine, taper off the letro and get off it. Keep on the nolvadex, and try out the DHT cream, it may help in receding/eliminating the gyno tissue quicker.

Dht cream would not suppress my natural test the way Androgel would right? Because its already converted into its final form as DHT right. Which would also keep estrogen down as well.

**Vettester** · 08-06-2012, 10:10 PM

Razor, what dosage level did you get up to on the Letro?

Yeah, the fatigue gets a little rough, but that will improve as your body naturally seeks homeostasis.

You might also notice some achy joints, brittle nails & hair, and of course the libido decline. Guys don't realize just how important estrogen is to the body. It effects so many critical areas of our well being, even with the immune system. Please ensure that you take plenty of vitamins during this period, especially plenty of C, D-3, B12, plus some calcium, and don't be skipping meals.

Also, you are correct, DHT is converted downstream from testosterone when it's introduced (or interacts) with the 5A-reductase enzyme. The HPTA regulates natural test production by signalling the testicles with LH. This process works through a negative feedback loop with the HPTA and the testicles.

**Razor** · 08-06-2012, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Vettester

Razor, what dosage level did you get up to on the Letro?

Yeah, the fatigue gets a little rough, but that will improve as your body naturally seeks homeostasis.

You might also notice some achy joints, brittle nails & hair, and of course the libido decline. Guys don't realize just how important estrogen is to the body. It effects so many critical areas of our well being, even with the immune system. Please ensure that you take plenty of vitamins during this period, especially plenty of C, D-3, B12, plus some calcium, and don't be skipping meals.

Also, you are correct, DHT is converted downstream from testosterone when it's introduced (or interacts) with the 5A-reductase enzyme. The HPTA regulates natural test production by signalling the testicles with LH. This process works through a negative feedback loop with the HPTA and the testicles.

I got up to 2.0mg for one day. It's very harsh at that dose. I'm eating a ton of food right now and not skipping any meal as you recommended. I'm gonna start b12 injections soon and I'm getting enough nutrients in as well from real foods and veggies.

**Vettester** · 08-06-2012, 10:44 PM

Make sure you up your calcium ... And I forgot to mention Omegs (EFA's). Plenty of them as well.

**songdog** · 08-07-2012, 06:17 AM

Glad to hear things are working out for you

**GirlyGymRat** · 08-08-2012, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by HitIt

the drugs make him feel like shit and growing tits has him depressed.

gyno is when a person starts to develop female breast characteristics. surely you understand that since you were 12 once. and yes it's awful for a guy. it would be like you growing a beard or developing male pattern baldness.

T/y for the explanation....and I just don't see that a beard and baldness is becoming on me : )

Razor - good to hear that it is working out for you!

**Razor1** · 08-08-2012, 09:38 PM

Today is my last day on letro, so Im gonna be ok

**Capebuffalo** · 08-09-2012, 02:30 PM

I'm confused. You are now Razor formerly known as Razr. Who the hell is Razor1?

**Razor** · 08-09-2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

I'm confused. You are now Razor formerly known as Razr. Who the hell is Razor1?

My account was hacked yestraday as I just came to find out. I had to re register to get back on. They changed my password and then took some senstive information out of my PM and used it. Which I had to clear up. I know the name of the guy Im just waiting on an email address so we can find out who it was .

Anyways I need to make an update, went to the doctor today and the lump is about a centimeter now, I saw a different doctor this time and they finally ordered a lab for estrogen, which I had been waiting on for weeks and finally went and got it done myself with labcorps. 1 more day of letro and the rest im just going to use nolvadex and dht cream. Im hoping my energy comes back quick because ive been in the dumps with crashed estrogen.

**Capebuffalo** · 08-09-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Razor

My account was hacked yestraday as I just came to find out. I had to re register to get back on. They changed my password and then took some senstive information out of my PM and used it. Which I had to clear up. I know the name of the guy Im just waiting on an email address so we can find out who it was .

Anyways I need to make an update, went to the doctor today and the lump is about a centimeter now, I saw a different doctor this time and they finally ordered a lab for estrogen, which I had been waiting on for weeks and finally went and got it done myself with labcorps. 1 more day of letro and the rest im just going to use nolvadex and dht cream. Im hoping my energy comes back quick because ive been in the dumps with crashed estrogen.

Stat sucks. How often does that happen. What safe guards are in place to keep it from happening again.?

**Razor** · 08-09-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Stat sucks. How often does that happen. What safe guards are in place to keep it from happening again.?

Well I had a 5 numeral password, I changed it to a 10 numeral and phonetic password, that should be better this time, you never think its gonna happen i guess