Obama Supporters - Serious Question

[Metalject]

I'm not looking to start some hate war or anything like that. I have a simple question and I'd appreciate straight answers. If you support Obama, how can you do so based on these factors?

1. National Debt: will hit $16 trillion sometime today. More than $5 trillion in less than 4yrs.

2. Unemployment: hasn't gone down since he took office. In fact, it's up 1% since he took office. Obviously, that's not a large increase but it still hasn't gone down.

3. Housing Prices: the average value of a home in the U.S. has decreased by 40% in the last 4yrs.

4. Average Household Income: decreased by almost $5,000

5. Value of U.S. Dollar: down 20% in the last four years.

Forget all the hate speech against Romney. That doesn't answer the question. I'm not looking for stuff like "well Romney won't show his tax returns" or "I think Obama is better because he loves women and gays more." All of that is meaningless compared to the numbers above. Someone explain to me how they can support Obama being reelected with numbers like these?

[ramacher]

You forgot to add that Barack Obama, aka Barry Soetoro lived abroad in Indonesia, and expressed in his early memoirs his anti-colonial hatred of the United States. Obama rejects American exceptionalism and if elected to a second term, he will reshape America based on how best influenced him in his earlier years. Most don't know Obama was best buddies with Frank Marshall Davis, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Edward Said, and Roberto Unger; all leftist radicals that are hell bent on destroying this fine country from within. Believe what you want, but Obama for a second term would be a total disaster.

[Capebuffalo]

You forgot to add that Barack Obama, aka Barry Soetoro lived abroad in Indonesia, and expressed in his early memoirs his anti-colonial hatred of the United States. Obama rejects American exceptionalism and if elected to a second term, he will reshape America based on how best influenced him in his earlier years. Most don't know Obama was best buddies with Frank Marshall Davis, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Edward Said, and Roberto Unger; all leftist radicals that are hell bent on destroying this fine country from within. Believe what you want, but Obama for a second term would be a total disaster.

Someone saw 2016. It is a very scary thought. Following his fathers dream. To him even a poor American is to rich.

[lovbyts]

It's easy. Believe what he says, not what he does. Drink the Kool aid.

[ghettoboyd]

i think your all a bit foolish to think that all of americas problems have everything to do with obama....where where you all when Bush was in office and all of these problems where right here in front of you?...untill peeps stop with this political party bullshit, directing the blame towards the other party and start working together for the good of the people then we will forever take 2 steps forward then 3 steps backwards...we can argue this shit till we are blue in the face...who the fuk cares whose fault it is...who has the answers to fix it...please step forward...ooh and this bullshit about jobs...where are they? where do they come from..whos ass are they going to be pulled from cus guess what?...there are not enough jobs for everyone, its immpossible...once the republicans get into office its back to war cus war is good for the economy right?...ohh yea not so much anymore, what worked in the 40's and 50's dosent really apply today...cant wait for the republicans to get back into office so we can ask ourselves the same questions we do every four years...are we better of today then we where 4 years ago...my gueass will be like every other election year...NO...

[DSM4Life]

He has my vote.

[ramacher]

First of all, I highly respected President Bush, however, he spent money out of his a$$, money we didn't have. For ex. prescription medicare program for seniors, complete waste of money and something we simply cannot afford. Obama, on the other hand, is a anti colonialist marxist who wants to reduce the prosperity of America through global redistribution of wealth by fundamentally transforming America. He wants to crash our financial system through massive debts, huge entitlements, high taxations etc to even out the playing field for the "oppressed" in less developed countries because he blames their poverty on our free market system. He wants to lower our standard of living and give back to the "opressed what the opressors took" .. His world view is smothered in Black Liberation Theology.

[Shol'va]

Off hand I cannot speak for the other present ills America is suffering but on the national debt, most was acquired under Bush number 2 and his almighty quest for the holy grail (AKA WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION) in Iraq. BTW how is that going about now? So he starts a war that bleeds over into Afghanland spending trillions of American taxpayer dollars and pizzing off a whole lot of otherwise friendly Muslims. So now after 6-7 trillion added to the debt for Bush wars btw and it still took Obama to find and kill Osama Bin Hiding, who was the originator of 9-1-1 and not Irag or it's leader. And while he was all gung hoe over the war to finish daddys war of Iraq, he forgot about things at home and allowed Wall Street and the American Banks to go without following rules and protocols, causing the biggest crises in America since the Great Depression. So Bush was more then happy to get out of Washington after nearly destroying America as we know it. In walks Obama and is handed all the bad news that America is at it's brink. Then on top of that he finds out the The American Auto industry is fast going under. While the Republicans aka Mitt Romney says let the American Auto industry fail . Wow you got to love this guy. And if he is so uncaring about American industry that he doesn't support it, how is he going to get America back to work? His money is invested in foreign affairs and kept in off shore banks. Can we vote for a guy who could care less about American Industry? Also the republicans are still trying to blame American industrys' failure on unions! I mean come on now unions only make up about 10 percent of the workforce now. That boat wont float. They won't be happy till all unions everywhere are long gone! Why because then they can get wages down in America to compete against China at 29 cents per hour. And health care let me touch on it for a minute. Romney and his ilk want to take it away from the American people, but they themselves are covered under the best health care money can buy! And the Americans taxpayers, the very ones Romney wants to take theirs away from, is footing the Insurance bill for the guys! What nerve! Obama steps in and has to spend billions to shore up an economy at the brink spending trillions to bail walls street and the auto industry. Which btw at least the auto industry has paid back some of the money it borrowed and is continuing to pay it back where as wall street aka Mitt Romneys pals haven't paid back one red cent and have no plans to either! On top of this Romney is now telling every one who will listen that he was behind helping to bail out the auto industry and of it's successful turn around. I could go on but this and many other reasons I can't vote for the Romney Express.

[Rwy]

I dont think I am voting this year. Both suck. Romney is jsut a spineless lying politician and becoming president is another notch in his belt.

Obama is a ****ing mess and I find it really said that the Vice Presidents first comment to are we better off is Osama Bin Laden.

[spywizard]

I'm not for Romney But like Ryan for sure... but like most of the spanish and chatholic vote I'm voting against Barry..

[Rwy]

I'm not for Romney But like Ryan for sure... but like most of the spanish and chatholic vote I'm voting against Barry..

Ryan is a smart fycking dude. I will give him that

[JD250]

Ryan is as bipartisan as it gets.....even Obuma has sung his praises for that .....it's even on video, of course now that he's the opposition obummer claims all sorts of vile things about Ryan......typical obumma rhetoric..........Oh yea Boyd, lets not forget that all things that are bad are a direct result of Bush.....that one is getting a little tired.

[Metalject]

You forgot to add that Barack Obama, aka Barry Soetoro lived abroad in Indonesia, and expressed in his early memoirs his anti-colonial hatred of the United States. Obama rejects American exceptionalism and if elected to a second term, he will reshape America based on how best influenced him in his earlier years. Most don't know Obama was best buddies with Frank Marshall Davis, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Edward Said, and Roberto Unger; all leftist radicals that are hell bent on destroying this fine country from within. Believe what you want, but Obama for a second term would be a total disaster.

I agree. But despite that I was wondering how anyone could support him based on the numbers which no one has been able to answer yet.

[Metalject]

Off hand I cannot speak for the other present ills America is suffering but on the national debt, most was acquired under Bush number 2 and his almighty quest for the holy grail (AKA WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION) in Iraq. BTW how is that going about now? So he starts a war that bleeds over into Afghanland spending trillions of American taxpayer dollars and pizzing off a whole lot of otherwise friendly Muslims. So now after 6-7 trillion added to the debt for Bush wars btw and it still took Obama to find and kill Osama Bin Hiding, who was the originator of 9-1-1 and not Irag or it's leader. And while he was all gung hoe over the war to finish daddys war of Iraq, he forgot about things at home and allowed Wall Street and the American Banks to go without following rules and protocols, causing the biggest crises in America since the Great Depression. So Bush was more then happy to get out of Washington after nearly destroying America as we know it. In walks Obama and is handed all the bad news that America is at it's brink. Then on top of that he finds out the The American Auto industry is fast going under. While the Republicans aka Mitt Romney says let the American Auto industry fail . Wow you got to love this guy. And if he is so uncaring about American industry that he doesn't support it, how is he going to get America back to work? His money is invested in foreign affairs and kept in off shore banks. Can we vote for a guy who could care less about American Industry? Also the republicans are still trying to blame American industrys' failure on unions! I mean come on now unions only make up about 10 percent of the workforce now. That boat wont float. They won't be happy till all unions everywhere are long gone! Why because then they can get wages down in America to compete against China at 29 cents per hour. And health care let me touch on it for a minute. Romney and his ilk want to take it away from the American people, but they themselves are covered under the best health care money can buy! And the Americans taxpayers, the very ones Romney wants to take theirs away from, is footing the Insurance bill for the guys! What nerve! Obama steps in and has to spend billions to shore up an economy at the brink spending trillions to bail walls street and the auto industry. Which btw at least the auto industry has paid back some of the money it borrowed and is continuing to pay it back where as wall street aka Mitt Romneys pals haven't paid back one red cent and have no plans to either! On top of this Romney is now telling every one who will listen that he was behind helping to bail out the auto industry and of it's successful turn around. I could go on but this and many other reasons I can't vote for the Romney Express.

Bush spent way too much money, that's true. He increased the debt by more than $4 trillion in 8yrs. Obama has increased it by $5 trillion in 3.5yrs. Both increased it by way too much...Obama just took it to light speed.

As far as where Romney invest his personal wealth, personally I don't see how this has any baring on any of the issues listed above. He did what was best for his personal wealth, something we all do. As president, hopefully he'd do what is best for the personal wealth of the country...that's what you'd hope for with any president. Hopefully it would not include things like giving insane amounts of money to China in order to educate Chinese prostitutes on safe sex which was a chunk of the stimulus package.

Unions...sort of off topic from where I was wanting to go with this but just something to keep in mind. How about Walmart? One of the most successful American businesses of all time, and it has no union.

I cannot deny Obama inherited a bad situation, no one can justifiably say he didn't. However, no one can justifiably say it has improved based on the numbers. Based on the numbers it's only gotten worse.

[gearbox]

This is why I am curious why anyone would want to run. We are so messed up, the plate is to big!

[Metalject]

...and still no one is able to answer the original question. I've yet to hear an Obama supporter anywhere be able to answer this question when those simple yet important facts are part of the discussion.

[gixxerboy1]

1. National Debt: will hit $16 trillion sometime today. More than $5 trillion in less than 4yrs. There is alot that effected that. Less people working so less people paying taxes. More people on government assistance like unemployment and food stamps. The Bush tax rates. Still spending a fortune on wars.

2. Unemployment: hasn't gone down since he took office. In fact, it's up 1% since he took office. Obviously, that's not a large increase but it still hasn't gone down.
Yes if you look at the day he went into office. But that was just the start of the huge hit. People where loosing there jobs left and right when he took office. He didnt create the mess. If you compare the numbers from 2 years ago to now its improved.

3. Housing Prices: the average value of a home in the U.S. has decreased by 40% in the last 4yrs. I dont think houses were worth what they were selling for 5-8 years ago. they where way over inflated. I agree there were other issues too.

4. Average Household Income: decreased by almost $5,000According to the census bureau in 2010 the median income was higher then 2006 numbers.

5. Value of U.S. Dollar: down 20% in the last four years.

Forget all the hate speech against Romney. That doesn't answer the question. I'm not looking for stuff like "well Romney won't show his tax returns" or "I think Obama is better because he loves women and gays more." All of that is meaningless compared to the numbers above. Someone explain to me how they can support Obama being reelected with numbers like these?

I'm not saying i like Obama. But you can just look at the day he took office and todays numbers to compare. We were in a free fall when he took office. It feel for months before starting to turn around. So is today better then the day he took office maybe not. Is it better then the numbers from this time 2 years ago yes.

And the president can only do so much with out the senate or house going along.
If asked would i want Obama to be president again i might say no. But since its a choice between Obama or Romney, i'd take Obama.

[Bryan2]

First of all, I highly respected President Bush, however, he spent money out of his a$$, money we didn't have. For ex. prescription medicare program for seniors, complete waste of money and something we simply cannot afford. Obama, on the other hand, is a anti colonialist marxist who wants to reduce the prosperity of America through global redistribution of wealth by fundamentally transforming America. He wants to crash our financial system through massive debts, huge entitlements, high taxations etc to even out the playing field for the "oppressed" in less developed countries because he blames their poverty on our free market system. He wants to lower our standard of living and give back to the "opressed what the opressors took" .. His world view is smothered in Black Liberation Theology.

No offense or anything but this sounds pretty nut job conspiracy theory dude....

The way you describe obama paints a picture that he is purposely trying to kill america lol. Just because he does a shitty job doesn't mean there is some secret agenda that he planned since he was 7 years old spending his whole life for everything to fit exactly into place so he can **** everyone over. The simple fact of the matter is the world and america are so ****ed up now that no one is going to be able to fix the condition we are in. Even if we have a solid plan in which both parties agreed 100% on all lines it just is not physically possible to fix over the course of 1 or even 2 terms.


Long term plans are where the world needs to look to and set realistic goals for the next 8-10 years. There is no such thing as an easy fix with where the current worlds state of events are.

[Riptorn]

Someone explain to me how they can support Obama being reelected with numbers like these?

The TLDR post ole boy summed it up. All those numbers didn't necessarily stem from Obama. He didn't do anything to help fix it but crap like this has been going on forever. If I had to start the current crisis somewhere it'd be with Clinton dipping into Social Security money instead of trying to balance the budget with spending cuts and raising taxes. The buck was passed from that helping to inflate the housing market and leaving us where we are today.

I'm a firm believer in JFKs quote to ask what you can do for your country. All these handouts are what's destroying our society.

[frank13]

I'm not saying i like Obama. But you can just look at the day he took office and todays numbers to compare. We were in a free fall when he took office. It feel for months before starting to turn around. So is today better then the day he took office maybe not. Is it better then the numbers from this time 2 years ago yes.

And the president can only do so much with out the senate or house going along.
If asked would i want Obama to be president again i might say no. But since its a choice between Obama or Romney, i'd take Obama.

i agree, questions answered

[gearbox]

The TLDR post ole boy summed it up. All those numbers didn't necessarily stem from Obama. He didn't do anything to help fix it but crap like this has been going on forever. If I had to start the current crisis somewhere it'd be with Clinton dipping into Social Security money instead of trying to balance the budget with spending cuts and raising taxes. The buck was passed from that helping to inflate the housing market and leaving us where we are today.

I'm a firm believer in JFKs quote to ask what you can do for your country. All these handouts are what's destroying our society.

You hit the nail on the head. "All the hand outs" its ridiculous

[Metalject]

I agree that he inherited a mess, but so did Ronald Reagan. Obama also had two full years of full control, he had both houses of congress. He also came in as president with a congress being held by his part the previous two years during a time when numerous pieces of democratic based legislation was passed. However, rather than focusing primarily on freeing up private growth, he primarily focused on health care, as well as the continuation of every last entitlement program on earth as well as enhancing them an then dumped a trillion dollars into the economy into programs that largely failed or had absolutely no meaning or baring on the U.S. economy.

The overall point, a successful president finds a way to create significant improvement. This may mean he has to work with the other side the way Bill Clinton did successfully during his first term, but is something Obama has refused to do. We're talking about a president that hasn't signed a budget in his entire term, even when he had full control of both houses of congress. This is, in my opinion, completely unacceptable.

[frank13]

Ronald Reagan was a douchebag and overrated

[gixxerboy1]

I dont think its Obama failed to work with the other side. How many republicans said the main goal was to not have him reelected? And refused to work with him.
The gop put forward more bills on birth control and abortion then they did jobs.
Even when the republicans weren't in control how often did they filibuster?
They did everything they could not to work together.
Is Obama perfect. No, but you can't blame a guy for not putting out a huge fire fast enough. When you started the fire. And you have guy s still running around, pouring gas on it.

[gixxerboy1]

If romney wuns and he does have all the answers things aren't going to, change overnight. Peoples home values arent going to double in a couple, years. Everyone isn't going to get a raise at work.
This is going to be a long recovery even if everything goes perfectly.

[frank13]

romneys a weirdo anyways who the hell would want him to be president + hes mormon and who would someone running the country and making decisions based on there religion and not whats good for everyone

[Metalject]

Ronald Reagan was a douchebag and overrated

Probably the best president we've had in our lifetime. This is one of the few things most republicans and democrats will actually agree on.

[Metalject]

I dont think its Obama failed to work with the other side. How many republicans said the main goal was to not have him reelected? And refused to work with him.
The gop put forward more bills on birth control and abortion then they did jobs.
Even when the republicans weren't in control how often did they filibuster?
They did everything they could not to work together.
Is Obama perfect. No, but you can't blame a guy for not putting out a huge fire fast enough. When you started the fire. And you have guy s still running around, pouring gas on it.

I understand what you're saying. Still, the republican congress has put a budget in front of him time and time again and he refuses to consider it unless it increases the tax rate.

As for bills on jobs by the GOP, a GOP that functions like it's supposed to isn't going to come up with a bunch of bills on jobs. One of the biggest parts of their platform is not controlling the job market but limiting regulations so that it can control itself. The GOP doesn't want to create jobs, it wants to allow the private sector to have the freedom to do it itself. Even Bill Clinton understood this concept far more than Obama does. In fact, he's even praised Romney for his work at Bain Capitol, all while pissing Obama off because it was caught on camera. Kind of a side note, I'm a little surprised that Clinton is speaking at the DNC. It's no secret he and Obama hate each other.

[Metalject]

If romney wuns and he does have all the answers things aren't going to, change overnight. Peoples home values arent going to double in a couple, years. Everyone isn't going to get a raise at work.
This is going to be a long recovery even if everything goes perfectly.

That's true. I don't think anyone who supports Romney thinks that it will improve overnight. That's the Obama side that reports miracles like that...do you remember the chants after he won? All the people talking about how he was going to fix it all, they won't have to worry about their bills or buying groceries or any of that.

I think if Romney gets elected, and has full control of congress he'll be able to do a few things pretty quick that will satisfy a lot of Americans.

[Metalject]

romneys a weirdo anyways who the hell would want him to be president + hes mormon and who would someone running the country and making decisions based on there religion and not whats good for everyone

You mean making decisions based on their moral convictions as every last president in history including the current one has done. This is impossible to separate from the individual, religion or the lack of religion shapes our thought process.

[Rwy]

If romney wuns and he does have all the answers things aren't going to, change overnight. Peoples home values arent going to double in a couple, years. Everyone isn't going to get a raise at work.
This is going to be a long recovery even if everything goes perfectly.

1000% agree its going to be the same bullshit for another 4 years.

[Rwy]

What I am starting to notice is that more and more people are starting to be done with the bullshit. I expect record numbers for non voters this year.

Eventually I think you get to the point where you vote for dumb instead of dumber but after that why even bother? What starts happening when more and more people stop voting.

[Bryan2]

Interesting take on the matter from someone at a different forum...


Let me see if I can take a little more unbiased shot at this:
Obama plan:
Raise taxes on the rich (over $250,000/yr in income) to pre-Bush tax cut levels while leaving Bush tax cuts on those making under $250k (from 33% to 36% on income over $250k). Why it will fail: It does not raise enough revenue to do anything. These taxes will raise $800 billion in the next 10 years while there will be a $13 trillion deficit in the same time. How republicans argue it: The increases taxes on small business owners and therefore they will not be able to afford to hire new people. Why republicans are wrong: Only 2% of small businesses owners make more than $250k/yr. Also, let's say you make $300k from your business, your taxes will only go up $200 a year (no k).

Buffette Rule-people that make over $1 million a year have to pay 30% tax rate no matter how they make their money (investment or income). This is because people that get their income from investments pay a much lower tax rate (around 15%). Why it will fail: Once again, it is only a drop in the bucket. This will raise under $50 billion in 10 years. Compare that to $13 trillion again. How republicans argue it: This removes money from investments into companies (venture capitalist, private equity, etc.) and without these investments, companies will fail or not be able to expand. Why republicans are wrong: People are not going to stop investing in companies just because there is a higher tax rate, however, there may be incentives to make less risky bets (really depends on how the rest of the economy is doing).


Save money on health services (Medicare, Medicaid, etc.) by reforming the nations healthcare system. If everyone has insurance or public subsidized insurance people will start seeing doctors before it gets to an emergency room level issue. It is cheaper to pay for a family doctor visit than an ER visit (it is all more complicated than I am making it out). Why it will fail: For profit insurance companies will still control our healthcare system. The focus of this bill was to increase access to healthcare. The reforms do very little to actually control costs. How republicans argue it: Death panels, rationed care, long waits, can't see the doctor you want, etc., etc. Why republicans are wrong: Private health insurance already limits which doctors you can see (in network/out of network) and can deny treatment.
I just looked through Obama's website, and I can't tell if he is still trying to push any kind of stimulus. But he has had several "jobs" bills and targeted investments (e.g., green energy) to stimulate the economy. Why it will fail: None of the stimulus packages have really been done correctly. They use one time funds for reoccurring costs (prevent layoffs of police, teacher, etc.) that just kicks the can down the road instead of investing in infrastructure (a new bridge can be beneficial for the next 50 years...a new nationwide high speed rail system could fundamentally change the economy like the interstate system did, etc.). How republicans argue it: Kick back for unions and big donors (e.g., Solyndra). Why republicans are wrong: They do the exact same thing, except they give money to companies they like.


Romney plan:
Maintain all current tax rates. Evidently I am behind on this, Romney would lower everyone's taxes 20% lower than Bush. He will supposedly pay for this by eliminating/limiting deductions and credits, but doesn't say what. Why it will fail: Every group that has seriously studied the budget says that we have to increase revenue somehow. You cannot fix the budget deficit through cuts alone. How democrats argue it: Tax cuts for the rich. Why democrats are wrong:
It is not a tax cut, it is failing to raise their taxes. Edit: Everyone gets a 20% cut so it is the same for everyone, though 20% of a $1 million is much more than 20% of $25k. Plus, there is the percentage vs actual money argument. While Romney paid less than 15% in taxes, that still comes out to $3 million dollars.
Lower corporate tax rates from 35% to 25% so they have more money to hire people, expand, etc. Why it will fail: Most large businesses do not pay the 35% rate anyway. Companies have record amounts of cash on hand. It is not the tax rate that is keeping companies from hiring people, it is a lack of demand for their products. How democrats argue it: Putting wall street before main street. Why democrats are wrong: Well, in a way, they are not wrong, but it is really a difference in philosophy. Let me give this its own paragraph.


Both the maintaining the current tax rates and lower corporate tax rates have the same underlying philosophy: Rich people and rich companies create jobs. Any money you take away from them is less money they have to hire people or expand (which creates jobs by buying things from other companies). This is the "trickle down" argument. Though, as I said before, companies have record amounts of cash right now and they are not hiring. This is because consumers are not spending as much (they do not have jobs, they are making less money in a new job, they are paying off debt, they are scared and hoarding money, etc.) so giving a company a tax break will not cause them to hire someone. Let's say I have a company that sells $1 million of product a year. Let's say I have one manager making $100k, 14 employees making $50k, and I take $200k profit as the owner (yes, I have a mystical place with no overhead costs). Now, lowering my tax will put $20k more in my pocket a year, but I still only sell $1 million in goods so I don't need any more people. Maybe I go and buy a new machine with that money, or maybe I just stick it away in the bank to help next time sales dip even lower.


Cut the size of the federal government. Money spent on the federal government is money not being spent in the private sector. Why it will fail: Since we are not talking about new tax cuts, only keeping the existing ones in place, cutting the spending of the federal government will just remove money from the economy. Romney's website only has about $2.6 billion in cuts (not counting the $95 billion for "Obamacare") and then another $222 billion in cost saving by being more "efficient and effective". He will cut 10% of the federal workforce. That is over 200,000 jobs lost. He will also cut their pay by 30-40%. That is $50 billion a year removed from the economy. Plus, it should be pointed out that almost all of the increase in government employees during Obama come from Defense, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security (places Republicans traditionally protect). How democrats argue it: Romney will cut services for the poor. Why democrats are wrong: Well, they are not really, after all, if defense cuts are off the table, there is not much left to cut. However, Obama realizes there is waste in the federal government and has tried eliminated programs. Also, other than Family Planning, Romney has not specifically targeted programs for the poor (and that has nothing to do with poor, but abortion).


Reducing regulations on businesses will cause the economy to increase. Why it will fail: It all really depends on what regulations are removed/changed. There are bad regulations out there that actually hurt jobs, but there are also many good regulations that help the country, environment, and overall economy. Returning banking regulations to pre-2008 is probably a bad idea. Removing environmental regulations from oil companies is probably a bad idea. But the devil is in the details. How democrats argue it: They want to destroy the environment and put everyone in the poor house. Why democrats are wrong: Hyperbole.
I think I have hit all of the major components of their plans, but I am sure I missed something.
Edit: I made a mistake on Romney's tax plan.

[Metalject]

I think a lot of people would agree it will truly take drastic measures for the economy and the countries overall financial security to improve. Many on the right as well as right-leaning libertarians want to see true dramatic cuts and to role the dice with far less regulation on small businesses. It's not like the opposite approach is working. However, this is going to require the country to go through some major, for lack of a better word, birthing-pains so to speak. But it may be the only solution.

On the other side of the fence, Obama's plans do nothing to reduce overall spending...the national debt only increases. Despite no concrete budget, based on what spending has already been committed to we know the debt will increase by another $1 trillion in 2013 under Obama's watch based on what he wants to do and continue to do. This is all assuming he doesn't add any other expenses, and based on the past 4 yrs it's highly unlikely he won't increase spending even more.

The only way this country will recover economically is through drastic changes in spending, true massive cuts. That means a lot of programs and government agencies must be removed. Yes, it also means some people will lose their government job, but for the overall financial security it is the only way. I'm not just talking about pulling the band aide off, but basically biting the bullet out that's stuck in its arm with its own teeth. Unfortunately, we may have to hit a true disaster economically like we've never seen this for most people to realize it, and that's going to make recovery all the more difficult.

There are so many people who when they hear about dramatic cuts like this immediately start saying things like "it's not fair." Well, the government is not supposed to be in the business of fair. It's prime directive is protecting the country, and this includes protecting it from itself. We survived, grew and flourished for years without this insane spending and there's no reason we can't do it again.

[Shol'va]

Well no matter who you support or vote for, all we can hope is they do something constructive to help the country and it's people for a change. It's crazy how one side is always wanting to go after Social Security. Granted both sides did their fair share of raiding it, but only one side wants to do away with it as it now stands. It was set up to be a self sustaining benefit. And if the politicians, the very ones who now want to dismantle it, had of left it alone in the first place and not skimmed billions out of it for their pet projects, starting with using it to support the Vietnam war, it would be in great shape. But those greedy politicians could not stand it to see this fund with trillions of dollars sitting their untouched. So they raided the SS lock box and now that they never paid any back in, they want the American public, retirees and future retirees to bear the cost and burden. If life were fair we would go after every one of the politicians involved in raiding the ss trust and force them to put their own money into it. And since all those politicians are millionaire and billionaires it would go a long way in shoring up the fund. IMO These guys lie cheat and steal from the American Public and we keep re electing them to office. We need some sort of honor and integrity restored to those offices. But I don't see that happening any time soon. Anyone worth their salt who wants to go and run for an office of House or Senate, that has honor and integrity is chased out by the good ole boy network as they spread and create lies about the honest ones to where they won't run for any office and we get stuck with what is left over. Not only that but now there is big money backing those who only take care of those who get them elected. So in return they make and pass bills and laws favorable to those who elected them instead of laws and bills that would help the country or the majority of it's people. Am I wrong here?

[JDawg1536]

Interesting take on the matter from someone at a different forum...


Let me see if I can take a little more unbiased shot at this:
Obama plan:
Raise taxes on the rich (over $250,000/yr in income) to pre-Bush tax cut levels while leaving Bush tax cuts on those making under $250k (from 33% to 36% on income over $250k). Why it will fail: It does not raise enough revenue to do anything. These taxes will raise $800 billion in the next 10 years while there will be a $13 trillion deficit in the same time. How republicans argue it: The increases taxes on small business owners and therefore they will not be able to afford to hire new people. Why republicans are wrong: Only 2% of small businesses owners make more than $250k/yr. Also, let's say you make $300k from your business, your taxes will only go up $200 a year (no k).

Another reason Republicans are wrong: No small-business owner goes out and hires a new employee because he can afford to, out of the goodness of his heart. If there is a need to hire someone, you hire them. If there isn't, you don't. Saving a few bucks on taxes has no bearing on that whatsoever.

[JD250]

^^^^^^ You don't shat about business and it shows in your posts and your political jibberish is nearly as non-sensical, I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Bottom line, if govt. would not only allow small businesses to grow without the burden of regulation but actually support them with their power to change laws and create MORE tax shelters.....this country would change overnight!! But some sorry ass bleeding heart liberal fvck will cry like a bitch because someone else is enjoying some success and it's just not fair .........blah blah blah waaaaah.......instead of taking a risk and doing the same thing as the succesful ones........hence the current administration and their mind numbing regulations and Govt. control

[Lunk1]

Probably the best president we've had in our lifetime. This is one of the few things most republicans and democrats will actually agree on

.

Another time we will agree....hell Clinton owes all of his success to Reagan

[spywizard]

as a republican... i can't hear what barry has to say from the back of the bus...

[gixxerboy1]

Interesting take on the matter from someone at a different forum...


Let me see if I can take a little more unbiased shot at this:
Obama plan:
Raise taxes on the rich (over $250,000/yr in income) to pre-Bush tax cut levels while leaving Bush tax cuts on those making under $250k (from 33% to 36% on income over $250k). Why it will fail: It does not raise enough revenue to do anything. These taxes will raise $800 billion in the next 10 years while there will be a $13 trillion deficit in the same time. How republicans argue it: The increases taxes on small business owners and therefore they will not be able to afford to hire new people. Why republicans are wrong: Only 2% of small businesses owners make more than $250k/yr. Also, let's say you make $300k from your business, your taxes will only go up $200 a year (no k).

Buffette Rule-people that make over $1 million a year have to pay 30% tax rate no matter how they make their money (investment or income). This is because people that get their income from investments pay a much lower tax rate (around 15%). Why it will fail: Once again, it is only a drop in the bucket. This will raise under $50 billion in 10 years. Compare that to $13 trillion again. How republicans argue it: This removes money from investments into companies (venture capitalist, private equity, etc.) and without these investments, companies will fail or not be able to expand. Why republicans are wrong: People are not going to stop investing in companies just because there is a higher tax rate, however, there may be incentives to make less risky bets (really depends on how the rest of the economy is doing).

Here is my issue with that argument. So what if its a drop in the bucket its a start. Thats the issue with the spending also. Oh its only 50million oh this is 300million its nothing. Well all the shit ads up, both ways. No it may not be a fix all but its a start.
Just like doing a budget at home. The little things add up. Not buying coffee every morning may not get you to pay the car payment. But if you cut that, drop HBO from your cable, order take out less. They add up. I dont get the point its not worth doing unless its huge.