Which President would you do better under?

**Ernst** · 09-20-2012, 01:52 AM

There's this website put together by UC Berkeley students that (supposedly) shows which candidate you'd be better off under. Go ahead, enter your info and see where you end up!

You can share your results in the poll and if you're comfortable doing so, maybe share which candidate you think you'll be voting for too!

https://www.politify.com/election/personal

Between the two I personally benefit under Romney, albeit not by a whole lot.

**Matt** · 09-20-2012, 02:46 AM

Being from the UK it matters little to me but i like Obama for some reason, Romney seems a little plastic and like Bush he comes across as the type of guy i'd like to punch...

I wonder how many people in the US won't vote for Obama just because of his colour?? I remember watching Obama being sworn in, in front of him they put this big bullet proof screen, did they really believe he might start shooting at the crowd??

**austinite** · 09-20-2012, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Matt

Being from the UK it matters little to me but i like Obama for some reason, Romney seems a little plastic and like Bush he comes across as the type of guy i'd like to punch...

I wonder how many people in the US won't vote for Obama just because of his colour?? I remember watching Obama being sworn in, in front of him they put this big bullet proof screen, did they really believe he might start shooting at the crowd??

For A LOT of folks, color is the final deciding factor. No matter how good one may be, if he/she is not the color they prefer, they will not be voting.

LOL, I'm sure you were kidding, but the screen is for his protection

Anyway, when finances are a major factor in ones decision process, those who don't make much money will probably vote for Obama. And those who make really good money will not.

**RaginCajun** · 09-20-2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

For A LOT of folks, color is the final deciding factor. No matter how good one may be, if he/she is not the color they prefer, they will not be voting.

LOL, I'm sure you were kidding, but the screen is for his protection

Anyway, when finances are a major factor in ones decision process, those who don't make much money will probably vote for Obama. And those who make really good money will not.

or the ones who don't work, don't pay taxes, don't care to work, in our country illegally, and get food stamps for their 11 children!

it goes for all races, purple or whatever

and LMAO at matt's comment about obama shooting at the crowd! hahahaha

**Shol'va** · 09-20-2012, 08:50 AM

Which President would you do better under?

Well according to Monica Lewenski, she did better while she was under Bill Clinton......

**RaginCajun** · 09-20-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

Which President would you do better under?

Well according to Monica Lewenski, she did better while she was under Bill Clinton......

hahahaha!

good one there sholv

**< <Samson> >** · 09-20-2012, 09:06 AM

You can't beat Mr. Obama. I have never ate this good when I had a job. I live off steak and sea food and get money for going to school. I just can't beat that with working some POS good for nothing job while paying taxes for some other tool like myself.

Just can't beat it, he pays for my juice and my food. Too bad it's with someone else's money. But, money is money. Good job Mr. Obama, you bought my vote - not that you need it.

**Misery13** · 09-20-2012, 09:59 AM

I don't like boys... I like girls.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-20-2012, 10:01 AM

for me Obama. I'm doing better now then after the economy crashed. I can get health care. For years i had no health insurance because of pre existing condition.

**JWP806** · 09-20-2012, 10:23 AM

I'd be doing about the same moneywise (+$500/yr under Romney) under either according to this but I personally can't stand how Romney is against things like same sex marriage, stem cell research. Also, the fact that the idiot wants to teach abstinence-only sex education is mind boggling. I can't really get over his personal ideals and it's scary to me that someone who is going to lead our country lets their religious beliefs interfere with some of their policies.

**< <Samson> >** · 09-20-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by JWP806

Also, the fact that the idiot wants to teach abstinence-only sex education is mind boggling. I can't really get over his personal ideals and it's scary to me that someone who is going to lead our country lets their religious beliefs interfere with some of their policies.

Look at that, I learned something. I never read or listened to anything on the guy to tell you the truth. But, that is BS.

**greenwell001** · 09-20-2012, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by < <Samson> >

You can't beat Mr. Obama. I have never ate this good when I had a job. I live off steak and sea food and get money for going to school. I just can't beat that with working some POS good for nothing job while paying taxes for some other tool like myself.

Just can't beat it, he pays for my juice and my food. Too bad it's with someone else's money. But, money is money. Good job Mr. Obama, you bought my vote - not that you need it.

I dont mind to help pay for someone tyring to better theirself by going to school, but i dont want to pay for your streak and sea food. Obama want wealth redistribution and i work hard for what i make and i dont want him saying since i make this amount i am going to pay for so and so's 10 kids. Its rediculous. I dont like either one, but my vote will be for Romney. I just wish my boy Ron Paul would get on a third party ticket, shit i might just write him in.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-20-2012, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by greenwell001

I dont mind to help pay for someone tyring to better theirself by going to school, but i dont want to pay for your streak and sea food. Obama want wealth redistribution and i work hard for what i make and i dont want him saying since i make this amount i am going to pay for so and so's 10 kids. Its rediculous. I dont like either one, but my vote will be for Romney. I just wish my boy Ron Paul would get on a third party ticket, shit i might just write him in.

the tax code has been based on wealth redistribution for decades. Its not Obama

**JAB1** · 09-20-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by greenwell001

I dont mind to help pay for someone tyring to better theirself by going to school, but i dont want to pay for your streak and sea food. Obama want wealth redistribution and i work hard for what i make and i dont want him saying since i make this amount i am going to pay for so and so's 10 kids. Its rediculous. I dont like either one, but my vote will be for Romney. I just wish my boy Ron Paul would get on a third party ticket, shit i might just write him in.

It doesnt work like that do a little resarch

**greenwell001** · 09-20-2012, 11:48 AM

Thats funny. I can see you guys have no clue, i will leave it at that

**Times Roman** · 09-20-2012, 12:14 PM

I don't like Romney because of his religious beliefs and how that impacts what he wants to do - he seems to be yet another religious idealogue that "knows better than you or I" and pretends he is a moral authority and wants to fashion this country as his church sees fit.
I don't like Obama because he seems to have no fiscal restraint, and is yet another tax and spend democrat.

I'll probably vote for the Libertarian again this year.

It surprises me that many feel they need to have their vote fall on the side of victory. So instead of voting their convictions, they protest vote.

**JWP806** · 09-20-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by greenwell001

I dont like either one, but my vote will be for Romney. I just wish my boy Ron Paul would get on a third party ticket, shit i might just write him in.

I'm with you here 100%. Ron Paul is the man.

**RaginCajun** · 09-20-2012, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I don't like Romney because of his religious beliefs and how that impacts what he wants to do - he seems to be yet another religious idealogue that "knows better than you or I" and pretends he is a moral authority and wants to fashion this country as his church sees fit.
I don't like Obama because he seems to have no fiscal restraint, and is yet another tax and spend democrat.

I'll probably vote for the Libertarian again this year.

It surprises me that many feel they need to have their vote fall on the side of victory. So instead of voting their convictions, they protest vote.

TR, with all due respect, why waste your vote? you know that guy won't win. i am a registered independent as well, but they will never, ever get any kind of vote number to even burn a candle to the other candidates.

**evander87** · 09-20-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I'll probably vote for the Libertarian again this year.

Me too. I'm so over a two party system. I like my guns AND believe a woman should have the right to choose.

Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00

TR, with all due respect, why waste your vote? you know that guy won't win. i am a registered independent as well, but they will never, ever get any kind of vote number to even burn a candle to the other candidates.

Because if enough "independent" voter vote for the independent ticket the two big parties will take notice and have to take the 3rd party seriously.

**RaginCajun** · 09-20-2012, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by evander87

Me too. I'm so over a two party system. I like my guns AND believe a woman should have the right to choose.

Because if enough "independent" voter vote for the independent ticket the two big parties will take notice and have to take the 3rd party seriously.

we all know that will not happen soon enough! i agree with all points, trust me

**JWP806** · 09-20-2012, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I don't like Romney because of his religious beliefs and how that impacts what he wants to do - he seems to be yet another religious idealogue that "knows better than you or I" and pretends he is a moral authority and wants to fashion this country as his church sees fit.
I don't like Obama because he seems to have no fiscal restraint, and is yet another tax and spend democrat.

That my issue as well.

Someone who is intelligent enough to have a MBA and JD from Harvard and have a net worth of over $200 million still believes in the bible and God. This wouldn't be an issue to me if this wasn't such an influence on his thoughts on the advancement of science and simple shit like same-sex marriage. I can not wrap my head around the fact that he is against stem cell research. I feel like having Romney in the white house is going to set us back in time.

**Times Roman** · 09-20-2012, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00

TR, with all due respect, why waste your vote? you know that guy won't win. i am a registered independent as well, but they will never, ever get any kind of vote number to even burn a candle to the other candidates.

I use my vote to vote my conscious, not try and predict who will win or prevent someone else from winning.

any time you feel that a minority candidate can't change the political outcome, look at Ross Perot.

He kept Bush out of a second term.

He was largely instrumental in generating a political environment where a balanced budget was important, and in fact, for a couple of years, we did have a balanced budget.

**spywizard** · 09-20-2012, 04:32 PM

So.. all of you now owe $51,000 is your share of the debt.. so if you are eating off the rest of us that actually pay taxes.. you still owe that much.. or you are waiting for someone else to pay it for you..

nice life..

$16,000,000,000,000 in debt that is we are borrowing money to send it to people in the middle east who sell us oil at $90 per barrel..

nice life..

the slogan for this year is "Anyone but Obama"...

**Hoggage_54** · 09-20-2012, 05:47 PM

Let's not forget Mitt Romney's dad was once a welfare receipient, so according to Mitt, his own dad wouldn't vote for him.

**ac guy** · 09-20-2012, 06:39 PM

I came in better under Obama in the survey, but I don't see how the country is better off than it was. Will Romney do any better? I won't hold my breath, but honestly, if Barry loses the race, it will be a miracle.

**RaginCajun** · 09-20-2012, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I use my vote to vote my conscious, not try and predict who will win or prevent someone else from winning.

any time you feel that a minority candidate can't change the political outcome, look at Ross Perot.

He kept Bush out of a second term.

He was largely instrumental in generating a political environment where a balanced budget was important, and in fact, for a couple of years, we did have a balanced budget.

Good points. I liked Ross Perot, he is what made me want to an independent. At that time, I wasn't old enough to vote though

**Metalject** · 09-21-2012, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I don't like Romney because of his religious beliefs and how that impacts what he wants to do - he seems to be yet another religious idealogue that "knows better than you or I" and pretends he is a moral authority and wants to fashion this country as his church sees fit.
I don't like Obama because he seems to have no fiscal restraint, and is yet another tax and spend democrat.

I'll probably vote for the Libertarian again this year.

It surprises me that many feel they need to have their vote fall on the side of victory. So instead of voting their convictions, they protest vote.

I think all leaders, regardless of the position act on the basis of their religious ideology or lack thereof. It's impossible to separate that from yourself because it largely defines how you see the world. Obama himself has done the same thing, his redistribution ideology goes hand-in-hand with his belief in collective salvation, which he has talked about numerous times.

The biggest problem of all though, it has nothing to do with a candidates religious beliefs...far from it. The biggest problem is we have become lazy. We now let the government rule us, we are under its heel rather than it under our heel, which was supposed to be the entire point of the U.S. Put in place a government that protects are ability to live free....nothing less, nothing more. That's why people complaining about what a president is going to do about jobs is such a BS complaint. It's not his job to make jobs, it's his job to stand out of the way and ensure there is freedom for people to find and make their own jobs. But America has become so lazy and entitled to itself that many can't see this, and this same argument works for a lot of issues.

**optionsdude** · 09-22-2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I use my vote to vote my conscious, not try and predict who will win or prevent someone else from winning.

any time you feel that a minority candidate can't change the political outcome, look at Ross Perot.

He kept Bush out of a second term.

He was largely instrumental in generating a political environment where a balanced budget was important, and in fact, for a couple of years, we did have a balanced budget.

THANK YOU TIMES!!!!!!
A vote for change is a vote for someone who isn't in the 2 party system. If people continue to think voting for an independent or third party is throwing away their vote things will never change. I'm also with you guys on Romney's religious influence. There's a great documentary out right now on current tv called "The mormon candidate" check it out if you get a chance. Mormonism is a cult. I'm not just saying this because of the documentary,I lived in Idaho for a few years growing up and you were either a mormon or a mormon hater.

**dhriscerr** · 09-22-2012, 06:19 PM

Obama but only because he supports wind energy wether you agree with it or not, I'm not big on subsidies so im kind of against production tax credits, but shit, it pays my bills and helps me provide for my family so what else am I suppose to do?

**JohnnyVegas** · 09-22-2012, 06:36 PM

I put in my info and it says that BOTH will result in my income going up by:

Obama: $5,238
Romney: $5,200

...so that was helpful. Basically exactly the same.

The site says 70% of American households will benefit from Obama winning. Since that site seems to only be looking at financial benefit, who will pay for that gain by the majority?

I think demonizing Romney for being Mormon is an unconscionable as demonizing Obama for being black. Is their religion silly? Who cares, they all are. No self professed non-Christian will be president for quite a while, so that is a level playing field.

Unfortunately, getting the votes of non-intellectually curious fringe Christians (no, I am not saying all Christians) requires Republicans to go too far to the right for many issues. Their stance on women's issues is moronic. I also fear for my beloved science (I noticed someone above commented on stem cell research). Don't get me started on their stance on gays.

I think Romney is more centrist than he seemed for the primary. Now I hope he will shift to the center a bit. And why not? The votes he needs from the far right would rather die than vote for Obama, so how about he looks less dickish for a bit. A little more compassionate. A little more giving. A little more caring.

**JD250** · 09-22-2012, 06:39 PM

What will happen when we have to repay all the FREE money that Obama has spent? If Obama gets re-elected imagine the mess he will "inherit" this time. Some of you won't vote for Romney because he is Mormon....really? Are you the same people who cry foul when someone expresses concerns about Obamas muslim ties?

My take is this, and I think it's appearant from these posts.....Obama supporters only care about what THEY can get out of the deal for themselves RIGHT NOW with NO concern for the good of this nation, our economy, our freedoms or what future generations will be left with, some of you would trade it all right now for more free shit from the magic muslim. ANYBODY BUT obama!!! I'd vote for sponge bob before obama.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-22-2012, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by JD250

What will happen when we have to repay all the FREE money that Obama has spent? If Obama gets re-elected imagine the mess he will "inherit" this time. Some of you won't vote for Romney because he is Mormon....really? Are you the same people who cry foul when someone expresses concerns about Obamas muslim ties?

My take is this, and I think it's appearant from these posts.....Obama supporters only care about what THEY can get out of the deal for themselves RIGHT NOW with NO concern for the good of this nation, our economy, our freedoms or what future generations will be left with, some of you would trade it all right now for more free shit from the magic muslim. ANYBODY BUT obama!!! I'd vote for sponge bob before obama.

This is where you always get me. You dont think its right people wont vote for Romney because he is Mormon but make the Magic Muslim comment.
The Mormon doesnt bother me. Honestly id rather that then Santurom and his strong Catholic views.

We have been spending tons of money we havent had well before Obama got in office. I dont think he is great with the debt but im not blaming it all on him either. There are very few in politics that are serious about making real cuts. I dont think Romney will be any different on that.
I'm not an Obama supporter. But given the choice we have now, i am voting for him over Romney
I think Obama is better at foreign matters then Romney
I wanted Romney to win the primaries. I was going to vote for him. I lost any confidence in him. He does not have what it takes to President.

**Vettester** · 09-22-2012, 08:55 PM

Guys and gals, review the facts! Here they are ...

Here's your change!
Jan. 2009 Today % of Change Source
Average retail price/gallon gas US $1.83 $3.85 84% 1
Crude oil /European Brent (barrel) $43.48 $99.02 127.7% 2
Crude oil, West TX Inter. (barrel) $38.74 $91.38 135.9% 2
Corn, No.2 yellow, Central IL $3.56 $6.33 78.1% 2
Soybeans, No. 1 yellow, IL $9.66 $13.75 42.3% 2
Sugar, cane, raw, world, lb. Fob $13.37 $35.39 164.7% 2
Unemployment rate, non-farm, overall 7.6% 9.4% 23.7% 3
Unemployment rate, blacks 12.6% 15.8% 25.4% 3
Number of unemployed 11,616,000 14,485,000 24.7% 3
Number of fed. Employees 2,779,000 2,840,000 2.2% 3
Real median household income $50,112 $49,777 -0.7% 4
Number of food stamp recipients 31,983,716 43,200,878 35.1% 5
Number of unemployment benefit recipients 7,526,598 9,193,838 22.2% 6
Number of long-term unemployed 2,600,000 6,400,000 146.2% 3
Poverty rate, individuals 13.2% 14.3% 8.3% 4
People in poverty in U.S. 39,800,000 43,600,000 9.5% 4
U.S. Rank in Economic Freedom World Rankings 5 9 N/A 10
Present Situation Index 29.9 23.5 -21.4% 11
U.S. Dollar versus Japanese yen exchange rate 89.76 82.03 -8.6% 2
U.S. Money supply, M1, in billions 1,575.1 1,865.7 18.4% 13
U.S. Money supply, M2, in billions 8,310.9 8,852.3 6.5% 13
National debt, in trillions $10.627 $16.052 32.2% 14

Just take this last item: In the last two years we have accumulated national debt at a rate more than 27 times as fast as during the rest of our entire nation's history!!

Over 27 times as fast. Metaphorically speaking, if you are driving in the right lane doing 65 MPH and a car rockets past you in the left lane. 27 times faster, it would be doing 7,555 MPH!

What baffles me is that people say they "think" they can't trust Romney! If you like BIG Government, then just keep it where we are at! If the above numbers and stats are well deserving for this administration to keep their jobs, then really it wouldn't matter if those numbers were 5x higher than they are, you're just going to reward people for poor performances! Keep in mind, President Obama called GW Bush "Unpatriotic" for the amount of debt he created in 8 years, which isn't anywhere close to what we have seen in 3-1/2 years!! When do you start holding people accountable??

Sources:
(1) U.S. Energy Information Administration; (2) Wall Street Journal; (3) Bureau of Labor Statistics; (4) Census Bureau; (5) USDA; (6) U.S. Dept. Of Labor; (7) FHFA; (8) Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller; (9) RealtyTrac; (10) Heritage Foundation and WSJ; (11) The Conference Board; (12) FDIC; (13) Federal Reserve; (14) U.S. Treasury

**Bonaparte** · 09-22-2012, 09:06 PM

It's hilarious (and terrifying) how Fox "News" has convinced the Right that Obama basically invented welfare and the national debt. You can twists statistics any way you want, like those making it seem as though the Wall Street bailout (passed under the Bush administration and executed under Obama's term) was part of Obama's secret plot to bankrupt the nation and redistribute 1st world wealth to the 3rd world (or whatever asinine conspiracy theory that new "2012" film put forward).

**optionsdude** · 09-22-2012, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

I put in my info and it says that BOTH will result in my income going up by:

Obama: $5,238
Romney: $5,200

...so that was helpful. Basically exactly the same.

The site says 70% of American households will benefit from Obama winning. Since that site seems to only be looking at financial benefit, who will pay for that gain by the majority?

I think demonizing Romney for being Mormon is an unconscionable as demonizing Obama for being black. Is their religion silly? Who cares, they all are. No self professed non-Christian will be president for quite a while, so that is a level playing field.

Unfortunately, getting the votes of non-intellectually curious fringe Christians (no, I am not saying all Christians) requires Republicans to go too far to the right for many issues. Their stance on women's issues is moronic. I also fear for my beloved science (I noticed someone above commented on stem cell research). Don't get me started on their stance on gays.

I think Romney is more centrist than he seemed for the primary. Now I hope he will shift to the center a bit. And why not? The votes he needs from the far right would rather die than vote for Obama, so how about he looks less dickish for a bit. A little more compassionate. A little more giving. A little more caring.

Sorry about hating on the mormons Johnny but some tried to make life hard on my family for not being mormon as well as parents telling their kids not to play with me since I wasn't mormon. I personally never have been a religious person and neither were my parents. Baptists in the south were also bad,I had kids telling me that me and my family we were all going to hell because we didn't go to church.

**optionsdude** · 09-22-2012, 09:39 PM

Vettester where and when was gas $1.84 per gallon? According to last sundays Oakland tribune in the story "Gas prices bow to no one" the price of gas in sept. 2008(Bush) was $3.96 and in sept 2012 it was $3.85 so that would make gas cheaper,under Obama for the same time period,the sept. before the election. I'm not backing Obama,I always vote for a 3rd party candidate. I'm just trying to point out the illusions our media tries to cast on all issues to the general public. Especially Fox news. I suggest FSTV especially for some of the news on any protests and raw footage from them,not the grossly exaggerated,or edited and filtered versions the mainstream media shows. However I will admit theres no hot anchorwoman,or anchorman.

**Vettester** · 09-22-2012, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by optionsdude

Vettester where and when was gas $1.84 per gallon? According to last sundays Oakland tribune in the story "Gas prices bow to no one" the price of gas in sept. 2008(Bush) was $3.96 and in sept 2012 it was $3.85 so that would make gas cheaper,under Obama for the same time period,the sept. before the election. I'm not backing Obama,I always vote for a 3rd party candidate. I'm just trying to point out the illusions our media tries to cast on all issues to the general public. Especially Fox news. I suggest FSTV especially for some of the news on any protests and raw footage from them,not the grossly exaggerated,or edited and filtered versions the mainstream media shows. However I will admit theres no hot anchorwoman,or anchorman.

Sourced from the US Energy Information Administration. I would have to look up the Oakland Tribune to see what they're showing.

**Vettester** · 09-22-2012, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

It's hilarious (and terrifying) how Fox "News" has convinced the Right that Obama basically invented welfare and the national debt. You can twists statistics any way you want, like those making it seem as though the Wall Street bailout (passed under the Bush administration and executed under Obama's term) was part of Obama's secret plot to bankrupt the nation and redistribute 1st world wealth to the 3rd world (or whatever asinine conspiracy theory that new "2012" film put forward).

The thing is though, it was Obama who said the debt was "unpatriotic", and it was Obama that said by this time unemployment would be down, and if it wasn't this would be a "one term proposition".

I'm actually more of a Libertarian when it comes down to it, and I was quick to point out the flaws of GWB just the same. Truth be said, I think Hillary would have made such a better President than this guy. It was wrong for GWB to do any bailouts just the same!

And IMO, it's just not about Mr. Obama specifically. I hold his entire administration accountable. And YES, I think the Republican Congress is just as fvcked up, but let's all keep in mind that Mr. Obama had his first two years carte blanche by having full control of the house and senate.

He made all sorts of promises, it didn't happen. It's time for someone new ... And if that guy don't perform, get his ass out too!

**Metalject** · 09-23-2012, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

It's hilarious (and terrifying) how Fox "News" has convinced the Right that Obama basically invented welfare and the national debt. You can twists statistics any way you want, like those making it seem as though the Wall Street bailout (passed under the Bush administration and executed under Obama's term) was part of Obama's secret plot to bankrupt the nation and redistribute 1st world wealth to the 3rd world (or whatever asinine conspiracy theory that new "2012" film put forward).

I don't think the issue people have with Obama is based on him taking money from Americans and giving it to 3rd world countries...although many, including myself believe he needs to reign this spending in tremendously. The issue of redistribution is based here at home. Although simplistic sounding it's simply closing the gap between classes by force. This is the issue most have with Obama because to close that gap he has to take the money from somewhere and growth has to be hindered at one end while encouraged on the other. Personally I can't think of anything worse than that but this is viewed as a successful U.S. in Obama's eyes. Is he trying to purposely ruin the country? No, of course not. He's trying to improve it based on what he believes is right...it just so happens many believe what he wants isn't improvement at all.

Last thing, of course Obama didn't create welfare but he most certainly enhanced it beyond what it's ever been. More people are on food stamps, an insane amount more and the work requirement has been removed from the welfare system. He didn't create welfare but he's created a new system. As far as the debt, it's nearly six trillion in 3.5yrs, that's close to what Bush spent in 8 full yrs...which was way to much too. Either way, I don't understand how anyone can argue with a supportive stance for Obama based on his own debt numbers.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-23-2012, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

I don't think the issue people have with Obama is based on him taking money from Americans and giving it to 3rd world countries...although many, including myself believe he needs to reign this spending in tremendously. The issue of redistribution is based here at home. Although simplistic sounding it's simply closing the gap between classes by force. This is the issue most have with Obama because to close that gap he has to take the money from somewhere and growth has to be hindered at one end while encouraged on the other. Personally I can't think of anything worse than that but this is viewed as a successful U.S. in Obama's eyes. Is he trying to purposely ruin the country? No, of course not. He's trying to improve it based on what he believes is right...it just so happens many believe what he wants isn't improvement at all.

Last thing, of course Obama didn't create welfare but he most certainly enhanced it beyond what it's ever been. More people are on food stamps, an insane amount more and the work requirement has been removed from the welfare system. He didn't create welfare but he's created a new system. As far as the debt, it's nearly six trillion in 3.5yrs, that's close to what Bush spent in 8 full yrs...which was way to much too. Either way, I don't understand how anyone can argue with a supportive stance for Obama based on his own debt numbers.

Again not true. States can ask for a waiver from the Federal Law. If they have a plan that shows their state plan would work better and move more people from welfare to work. I think it has to be 20% more. I may be wrong on that. So nothing changes unless a gov request a waiver. And if they receive the waiver and dont get more people off welfare then they loose the waiver.

Under the new policy, states can now seek a federal waiver from work-participation rules that, among other things, require welfare recipients to engage in one of 12 specific “work activities,” such as job training. But, in exchange, states must develop a plan that would provide a “more efficient or effective means to promote employment,” which may or may not include some or all of the same work activities. States also must submit an “evaluation plan” that includes “performance measures” that must be met — or the waiver could be revoked.