America is as screwed up as the rest of the world

[DanB]

Lol, not really as much as it's made out to be to be honest. We'd be on par with Europe anyway. Sure look at what we won at the olympics

Czech republic is apperantly the biggest pisshead nation on planet, ireland only fifth or sixth i think

We have a "pub culture" were as alot of eastern europe has a "get wasted" culture

Miles off topic so i shut up now.....

[gixxerboy1]

Case point example. The problem with the US is that it is so vast and there is so much to do and see in your country, why wouldn't you think it is great. And you can go for 2k miles and still be in the same country wereas in Europe you do the same 2k miles in the same direction from West to East you go through maybe 7 countries depending on the way you go.

This makes you realise that other countries have their own things and qerks. Wereas no matter were you go in america it all really looks the same. And to be honest, I cannot blame ye and what was said there is a lot of media propaganda on your side of the world. The news comes out with some crazy statements. I have to say though a lot of the American's I have met when I was over there last year were great and really nice people and open to listening about europe and Ireland compared to some. But all countries have their problems, I couldn't get over how ireland is depicted as being drunk all the time while, when I was in europe I have never seen to many pissed people during the day in my life and drinking all day. Probably worse than us but the issue is that we have the perception of being drunk on tv etc so everyone assumes that we are. Perception is a strange thing is skews things very quickly and easily.

i've lived in a few areas and traveled to alot of different places inside the US. Honestly some are like complete opposite worlds.

[songdog]

Wow Bronzer, you're a really compassionate guy.

Many homeless people and others on disability suffer from a mental or physical illness and cannot hold down a job. Try getting out more instead of listening to other hate-mongers and bigots. We are the most screwed up 1st world country, by far. And it isn't because of welfare, but a lack of it. Look at any good European country's welfare, healthcare, and correctional systems and you'll see where we're failing.

As for "taking their kids away", let me guess: you're going to vote for a guy/party who apposes abortion, wants to do away with real sex-ed (abstinence doesn't count), and would make oral contraception less available, right? Well, that's just going to create more poor kids. And what do you think will be the main consequence of putting millions of poor kids in foster homes or orphanages? (BTW, orphanages are for kids whose parents are deceased, by definition) That's right: more taxes that YOU WILL BITCH ABOUT.

I have to disagree with you on this one Bro.My wife worked at a homeless shelter.and I can say this 90% of the people there I wouldnt admit to knowing let alone give a job to.To me the Red Cross is one of the more screwed up agencies I have ever seen.The people who really needed the help dont get it.But a Red Cross employee will eat donated food while the others cant.The whole system is fuked.Sorry RANT!

[Bonaparte]

I have to disagree with you on this one Bro.My wife worked at a homeless shelter.and I can say this 90% of the people there I wouldnt admit to knowing let alone give a job to.To me the Red Cross is one of the more screwed up agencies I have ever seen.The people who really needed the help dont get it.But a Red Cross employee will eat donated food while the others cant.The whole system is fuked.Sorry RANT!

I don't see how any of that addressed my point...but you just reinforced mine with that bolded statement. It isn't that they don't want to work (well, there are always exceptions), but that nobody will hire them because many are physically or mentally incapable of holding down a job.

[dec11]

You mean the IRISH arn't drunk all the time? Shit thats been my ecuse for years. German and Irish. Drink and fight and drink and fight and drink andfight some more!

I agree, I hate my country's attitude towards drinking, the country is full drunken arseholes and I'd happily leave Ireland in a flash. Some see the culture as endearing, it's not, it's a fvcking disgusting disgrace.

[Bryan2]

Less than 10% of the homeless population stay on the streets for 1 year.

Average statistics in the US show that most homeless people are without shelter for around 2-4 months.......

Might change some peoples viewpoint of the word "homeless"

[JD250]

I agree, I hate my country's attitude towards drinking, the country is full drunken arseholes and I'd happily leave Ireland in a flash. Some see the culture as endearing, it's not, it's a fvcking disgusting disgrace.

Sure there's all that but you guys got those cool little fvcking leprachauns running around over there, thats gotta be worth something.

[dec11]

Sure there's all that but you guys got those cool little fvcking leprachauns running around over there, thats gotta be worth something.

Lmao

[dec11]

When I was working doors, a lot of tossers here in Ireland would ask me if I got what they termed as 'alot of trouble off those English fvckers', in all my 4yrs of doing doors and now hotel management, I've never had one problem with any of the English I've encountered and that includes stag nights etc. I find English women probably the most friendliest people of all, well Polish girls would be a close 2nd.

Just goes to show the sectarian nature ever present in Ireland.

[austinite]

When I was working doors, a lot of tossers here in Ireland would ask me if I got what they termed as 'alot of trouble off those English fvckers', in all my 4yrs of doing doors and now hotel management, I've never had one problem with any of the English I've encountered and that includes stag nights etc. I find English women probably the most friendliest people of all, well Polish girls would be a close 2nd.

Just goes to show the sectarian nature ever present in Ireland.

It's the accent. Even when they're rude it still sounds nice . Speaking of which, I use an English voice on all business line menu's.

[Lunk1]

i've lived in a few areas and traveled to alot of different places inside the US. Honestly some are like complete opposite worlds.

Amen...if you go from the north to the deep south it is like a foreign country. So much different culture in the US which at the end of the day is what makes us truely unique.

[dec11]

It's the accent. Even when they're rude it still sounds nice . Speaking of which, I use an English voice on all business line menu's.

haha, North East England girls, I could listen to em all night, once got pulled out of a stag in N'castle and ended up spending 2 days in Durham with a sexy b1tch, ah good times, the lads were phoning me to see where the fvck I was and she was giving them a running commentary of what we were up to lol.

In Ireland however, you have to go to Mass with em for at least 4 Sundays in a row and you might get 2nd base lol

[Lunk1]

haha, North East England girls, I could listen to em all night, once got pulled out of a stag in N'castle and ended up spending 2 days in Durham with a sexy b1tch, ah good times, the lads were phoning me to see where the fvck I was and she was giving them a running commentary of what we were up to lol.

In Ireland however, you have to go to Mass with em for at least 4 Sundays in a row and you might get 2nd base lol

Suck good Irish Catholic lasses

[Bonaparte]

You assholes managed to turn a perfectly good political flamewar into some fond recollection of girls from the UK.

Uhhhhggg...lol

[dec11]

You assholes managed to turn a perfectly good political flamewar into some fond recollection of girls from the UK.

Uhhhhggg...lol

it all comes back to perving lol

[Shol'va]

[Lunk1]

You assholes managed to turn a perfectly good political flamewar into some fond recollection of girls from the UK.

Uhhhhggg...lol

A bunch of test filled men can not carry on a convo too long with out it turning to sex. I am surprised it made it past 3 or 4 posts

[Shol'va]

Let me see if I can fan some flames here....lol

[dec11]

That's way to far. Did you tell him to GTF over it? I would have and I live in the states. That's what's wrong with America as a whole they have had everything handed to them on a platter.

Bonaparte to add to your statement, lots of homeless are vietnam or war vets. Kinda depressing if you ask me.

i shit you not, heres another call i recieved in the hotel only last week and a complete howler:

American woman: i wish to file a complaint

me: yes madam?

AW: i want a contact for the person who designed this hotel

me: what is the problem?

AW: well, im too short to be able to see in the bathroom mirror and there isnt a label beside the hook on the door to tell me if its safe to hang my shower cap there, i dont want to rot the door. so i reckon someone needs to set him straight, i assume its a man cos he didnt think about shorter women

me: just hang it there, its fine and im afraid the designer of the hotel has passed on many years ago

AW: can you provide his next of kin's contact?

me: just fill out the complaint form, its in the bed side table.




I mean, fvck me!!!!! how stupid does it get???? one is just bursting to say 'wise the fvck up, you retard'!!! LMAO

[dec11]

one from the Notre Dame v Navy football w'end:

american woman: there is an alarm going off, can you stop it?

me: No, its at least three blocks away and nothing to do with the hotel

AW: so i pay good money and you refuse to stop this alarm?

me: i cant do anything about it, its nothing related to this premises

AW: call the police?

me: they'll laugh at me

AW: well im gona call the damn police and if they dont do anything i'll have my attorney call them tomorrow

me: (couldnt resist taking the piss at this stage) interpol could possibly help?

AW: yeah? have you got their number

me: they're a secret organisation im afraid

AW: you're just not gona help me are you? i want a refund tomorrow.

she then hung up.


it gets crazier every friggin time lol. 100% genuine, you couldnt make this shit up!!

[lovbyts]

It's not just here, there are crazy people who feel entitled to everything they can imagine all over the world. I have been saying it for many years we have far to many warning signs, safety barriers and things in place to help protect the mentally inept. I say let survival of the fittest (smartest) work it out meaning we get rid of most all lawyers also. The world would be a much safer and friendlier place.

[dec11]

It's not just here, there are crazy people who feel entitled to everything they can imagine all over the world. I have been saying it for many years we have far to many warning signs, safety barriers and things in place to help protect the mentally inept. I say let survival of the fittest (smartest) work it out meaning we get rid of most all lawyers also. The world would be a much safer and friendlier place.

i never get it anywhere near on the level as i do from americans compared to other nations mate, it just is crazy, you'd have to experience it to see for yourself.

i'd say the 2nd most demanding would be from the African nations. Europeans tend to give a sigh or tut and move on. the native Irish are becoming quite adept at being whingeing bast@rds as well these days also, its all 'in a recession you'd expect better' with them

these are just my experiences, ive no prejudice against anyone but sorry, when it comes to outright crazy bizarre irrational behaviour no-one tops the Yanks

[thegodfather]

Less than 10% of the homeless population stay on the streets for 1 year.

Average statistics in the US show that most homeless people are without shelter for around 2-4 months.......

Might change some peoples viewpoint of the word "homeless"

This is for my friend Bonaparte with regards to healthcare since we're talking statistics now. Of the alledged "47 million uninsured Americans," 1/3 or 33% are between jobs and will have coverage within 90 days. Additionally, nearly 12 million illegal immigrants were counted in that number, further degrading its legitimacy as a factual piece of data, and erroding the credability of the Democrats position on healthcare coverage. Because in truth, when its all said and done, the number of Americans who are truely uninsured, cannot get coverage, fallen completely through the cracks, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-10 million people. I think that we can find a more efficient way to provide healthcare to those disenfranchised people, rather then overhauling the entire healthcare system we have now. And just so you guys know, Illegal immigrants (or undocumented persons, for the fu*king liberal PUSSIES who insist on being politically correct, because they say a human being cant be 'illegal') are not entitled to ANY programs in the United States, they are by their very nature CRIMINALS, who are absolutely no different then a criminal who breaks into your home while you're not home, or not paying attention, and then starts to steal your food, your water, and your other resources within your home. It doesn't belong to them, they've not contributed anything towards it, and therefore they are not entitled to its benefits. The only healthcare they are entitled to, is that which is covered under EMTALA, that if they are injured in an accident or otherwise, we are required to make their condition STABLE. But if they want to recieve ongoing treatment and care for their condition, they can pony up the 'dineros' to pay for the services they are using, or (for the liberal Europeans in the thread) they can 'piss off' to back whence they came, and get treated in their own countries facilities, where they have some legitimate right to the services there.

I'd really like to steer this back towards a foreign policy, United States as its percieved abroad discussion, as intended by Gixxer. Anyone care to challenge me on the ills of American foreign policy? Or perhaps on Americans and our gun rights? I love pissing off people who think its marvelous that they've acquesiced their God given right to self defense with a firearm to the state, and think that Americans are off their meds for still owning guns. Sorry if I dont give much credence to opinions from people who allow their government to pass laws where they throw innocent people in prison when they use force to defend themselves, and make it absolutely unthinkable to use force and even deadly force to defend ones property with. A country which used to stand for things like honor, integrity, and power, who now requires by law that its citizens retreat (i.e.- turn tail and run the other fu*king way) when danger or criminals present themselves, and makes it illegal to use a weapon to ward off such attackers. I have little sympathy, and in fact disdain, for people so placated, naive, and content to believe that their government can provide protection for them at all times, everywhere. One thing is for certain though, your government has definitely spent a small fortune ensuring that once you're bludgeoned to death by a group of thugs or a knife wielding crimnal, they'll be able to catch him after you're dead with all of the CCTV cameras blanketing the living shit out of your country. 280 of those cameras are in BATHROOMS inside your public schools, of a total of 8,000 cameras within your public schools nationwide. So, I apologize if I have trouble taking critiscism from a people whos country has taken political correctness and turned it into a sort of doctrinalism, making every aspect of society politically correct by legislature or by force.

[lovbyts]

Thegodfather,

I always love your logic and how you spell it out in simple terms. I wish I had your way with words and always enjoy reading your post.

[thegodfather]

Thegodfather,

I always love your logic and how you spell it out in simple terms. I wish I had your way with words and always enjoy reading your post.

Thanks brosef, I appreciate that a lot....It's just a past time now, unfortunately I dont get to use the written word in my new field of study/career path as much as I did had I continued on with constitutional law.

[dec11]

This is for my friend Bonaparte with regards to healthcare since we're talking statistics now. Of the alledged "47 million uninsured Americans," 1/3 or 33% are between jobs and will have coverage within 90 days. Additionally, nearly 12 million illegal immigrants were counted in that number, further degrading its legitimacy as a factual piece of data, and erroding the credability of the Democrats position on healthcare coverage. Because in truth, when its all said and done, the number of Americans who are truely uninsured, cannot get coverage, fallen completely through the cracks, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-10 million people. I think that we can find a more efficient way to provide healthcare to those disenfranchised people, rather then overhauling the entire healthcare system we have now. And just so you guys know, Illegal immigrants (or undocumented persons, for the fu*king liberal PUSSIES who insist on being politically correct, because they say a human being cant be 'illegal') are not entitled to ANY programs in the United States, they are by their very nature CRIMINALS, who are absolutely no different then a criminal who breaks into your home while you're not home, or not paying attention, and then starts to steal your food, your water, and your other resources within your home. It doesn't belong to them, they've not contributed anything towards it, and therefore they are not entitled to its benefits. The only healthcare they are entitled to, is that which is covered under EMTALA, that if they are injured in an accident or otherwise, we are required to make their condition STABLE. But if they want to recieve ongoing treatment and care for their condition, they can pony up the 'dineros' to pay for the services they are using, or (for the liberal Europeans in the thread) they can 'piss off' to back whence they came, and get treated in their own countries facilities, where they have some legitimate right to the services there.

I'd really like to steer this back towards a foreign policy, United States as its percieved abroad discussion, as intended by Gixxer. Anyone care to challenge me on the ills of American foreign policy? Or perhaps on Americans and our gun rights? I love pissing off people who think its marvelous that they've acquesiced their God given right to self defense with a firearm to the state, and think that Americans are off their meds for still owning guns. Sorry if I dont give much credence to opinions from people who allow their government to pass laws where they throw innocent people in prison when they use force to defend themselves, and make it absolutely unthinkable to use force and even deadly force to defend ones property with. A country which used to stand for things like honor, integrity, and power, who now requires by law that its citizens retreat (i.e.- turn tail and run the other fu*king way) when danger or criminals present themselves, and makes it illegal to use a weapon to ward off such attackers. I have little sympathy, and in fact disdain, for people so placated, naive, and content to believe that their government can provide protection for them at all times, everywhere. One thing is for certain though, your government has definitely spent a small fortune ensuring that once you're bludgeoned to death by a group of thugs or a knife wielding crimnal, they'll be able to catch him after you're dead with all of the CCTV cameras blanketing the living shit out of your country. 280 of those cameras are in BATHROOMS inside your public schools, of a total of 8,000 cameras within your public schools nationwide. So, I apologize if I have trouble taking critiscism from a people whos country has taken political correctness and turned it into a sort of doctrinalism, making every aspect of society politically correct by legislature or by force.

all i can see here is basically, me, myself and I.

coming from a society destroyed from indiscriminate gun and bomb violence, i personally think firearms SHOULD NOT be available to the general public ANYWHERE.

do you think its correct that some crazed fvcking lunatic had the capacity to acquire the weaponry to enable him to storm into a cinema and kill innocent people and all the other indiscriminate mass shootings that have happened in the US ?

if you're afraid of the world then hiding behind a gun won't make you any braver and you have to understand we dont all walk around expecting to be attacked. you've quite a bit of growing up to do tbh.

[Matt]

all i can see here is basically, me, myself and I.

coming from a society destroyed from indiscriminate gun and bomb violence, i personally think firearms SHOULD NOT be available to the general public ANYWHERE.

do you think its correct that some crazed fvcking lunatic had the capacity to acquire the weaponry to enable him to storm into a cinema and kill innocent people and all the other indiscriminate mass shootings that have happened in the US ?

if you're afraid of the world then hiding behind a gun won't make you any braver and you have to understand we dont all walk around expecting to be attacked. you've quite a bit of growing up to do tbh.

For many years i would have agreed with you here Dec however i've since changed my mind on the subject.

As you know only a very select few here are allowed to own guns, that didn't help those 2 female police officers who were shot dead here in Manchester last week. Most of us could easily walk out of the door now and purchase a gun...

Im not saying we should change our laws on owning guns, i just think the Yanks should hold on to their right to own them....

[dec11]

For many years i would have agreed with you here Dec however i've since changed my mind on the subject.

As you know only a very select few here are allowed to own guns, that didn't help those 2 female police officers who were shot dead here in Manchester last week. Most of us could easily walk out of the door now and purchase a gun...

Im not saying we should change our laws on owning guns, i just think the Yanks should hold on to their right to own them....

tradigies like those two officers have happened before and will continue to happen unfortunately. giving arms access to everyone wont change the fact that criminal elements will more than readily do it again, sad but true.

ive legally held firearms in the past and if someone had of broken into my house, i still wouldnt have used them.

could you imagine the chaos in the UK/Ire if people could legally hold machine guns etc? i know ppl who would settle drunken quarrels with them without a split second thought.

[Honkey_Kong]

Thanks brosef, I appreciate that a lot....It's just a past time now, unfortunately I dont get to use the written word in my new field of study/career path as much as I did had I continued on with constitutional law.

You should change your name to theGOODfather. Preach on.

[Honkey_Kong]

tradigies like those two officers have happened before and will continue to happen unfortunately. giving arms access to everyone wont change the fact that criminal elements will more than readily do it again, sad but true.

ive legally held firearms in the past and if someone had of broken into my house, i still wouldnt have used them.

could you imagine the chaos in the UK/Ire if people could legally hold machine guns etc? i know ppl who would settle drunken quarrels with them without a split second thought.

Dec, honestly most people who own guns wouldn't ever use them on another person. Even in times of eminent danger. It's one thing to beat somebody up to a pulp with their fists or a pool cue, it's another thing to kill someone. Ask any soldier what their first kill was like.

And it's really not the legally obtained weapons that are used in killing people, it's the ones that aren't.

[dec11]

It's one thing to protest...hell it's one of our inaliable (sp) rights. It's a whole nother thing for a country to finance terrorism. Terrorism that has been pointed at numerous contries not just the US.

I support the right to protest...except for those fuks that protest at soldiers funerals (hell even they have the right to speak their peace).

The United States has NEVER made an unprovoked attack on foreign soil unlike some of the contries I assume you speak of...sorry but it's hard not to have a sour taste in your mouth.

Do I want to bomb a country or hold EVERyone that lives there responsible...hell no. I prefer that individuals be punished for their cimes, and that not every person of that race, religion or decent be looked down upon for the actions of the few.

the US governments are fantastic in creating the catalysts though

[thegodfather]

all i can see here is basically, me, myself and I.

coming from a society destroyed from indiscriminate gun and bomb violence, i personally think firearms SHOULD NOT be available to the general public ANYWHERE.

do you think its correct that some crazed fvcking lunatic had the capacity to acquire the weaponry to enable him to storm into a cinema and kill innocent people and all the other indiscriminate mass shootings that have happened in the US ?

if you're afraid of the world then hiding behind a gun won't make you any braver and you have to understand we dont all walk around expecting to be attacked. you've quite a bit of growing up to do tbh.

I'm confused, we have differing view points on the private ownership of firearms, and because of that, I have quite a bit of growing up to do? My work in the field of Constitutional Law/Constitutional Interpretation has been published, so I hope it is not a matter of credentials on the subject which is making you aprehensive to discuss it with me, I assure you, I'm qualified despite only being 25 years old.

You have posited your argument with a straw man attack, of course I don't feel that its correct for a 'crazed lunatic' to acquire weapons and enable him to commit a mass shooting on innocent civilians. I'm sorry that your society was nearly destroyed from indiscriminate gun&bomb violence, I truly am dec11, but it is important to understand the CONTEXT of the society in which we are speaking of. OUR society was BUILT on gun violence, our firearms were what enabled us to throw off the chains of British oppression and form a country which many argue is the greatest yet to exist on Earth, with the most individual liberties and prosperity. We have become a true global hegemony in the span of 236 years, an impressive feat when measured against the rise of other societies.

Your argument is the typical argument made by so many liberals in our country, but it ignores so many facets of our society. First, there is a fallacy which posits that those of us who are law abiding citizens, that exercise our God given, Constitutionally protected right to own and carry firearms concealed about our persons are 'afraid of something,' are 'hiding from something,' or are 'paranoid.' We like to say, that we would much rather have a firearm and never need one, then to need a firearm, and not have one. In our country, the US Supreme Court, the highest in our land, has ruled that the Police bear absolutely no liability to protect innocent citizens. On its face, it seems like a rather harsh ruling, however it simply acknowledges the fact that police officers and police forces, are not omnipotent God like forces, which are able to be everywhere, at every moment, where ever bad things are happening at in our society. There are those of us in our society, who, being law abiding citizens, choose to exercise this great right that our founders thought so important to be protected that they list it SECOND in our Bill of Rights behind only the freedom of speech and assembly. They felt that firearm ownership was a tenet of a free society, a society which should have the capacity not to just defend itself from the evils of others in society, but to defend itself from the evils perpetrated by men in government for THOUSANDS of years preceding the 236 years our country has been in existence. Many like to extoll the virtues of a free society, and speak of despotism as if its so very old, and as if freedom has been around for so long. It is not, FREEDOM is a NEW idea by historical and societal standards, and it is the firearm which allows freedom to be preserved, because the founders recognized something inherent in firearms which is so very unique.

The unique thing about firearms Dec11, is that they are a force multiplier, and a great equalizer. They allow one person to have a considerable impact, but better then that, they allow a very weak person to defeat a very strong person. Never before in history has such a weapon existed. A 74 year old grandmother with frail, weak, brittle bones can successfully defeat a young, strong, virile attacker. A 42 year old father of three who is caught in a parking garage alone, with no police within 5 minutes of him, can successfully fend off 2,4,8, even 10 attackers at once, giving him the chance to see his three children and wife again. While it is true that gun violence exists in our country, I should remind you that only the most grotesque aspects of gun ownership are displayed by the media, and seldom does the news report how often guns SAVE LIVES. It doesn't make for sensational headlines, and when it does make its way into the media, they often report the victim as being 'lucky' to be alive. It's often very easy to overlook the profound impact guns can have on those weakest in society, because many of us on this board are big strong men, who believe ourselves to be able to handle ourselves in tough situations. But I challenge many of you to think about your loved ones, your women, think about them and whether or not you'd want them to have a fighting chance getting into their car in the evening against an attacker twice their size, or multiple attackers twice their size. Firearms allow them to do this. Our countries own FBI, reports that firearms are used 1,500,000 to 2,000,000 times per year to SAVE LIVES, over 90% of those instances, the mere presence of the firearm being displayed was enough to dissuade the attacker from continuing. Juxtapose those numbers with the estimated 15,000 or so gun deaths in a country of 340,000,000 people, per year. Those are total gun deaths, not all are murders, it includes suicides, negligent discharges (accidents), and even lawful self-defense with a firearm is considered a gun homicide. When you look at it through that lens, it begins to come into focus.

We Americans severely lack the ability to see our actions and our lives through the lenses of other people not from our country. I would propose however, that you yourself Dec, are not allowing yourself to put on the appropriate lense to see in our society, how absolutely beneficial lawful gun ownership can be. Please, click this link with an open mind, and browse through some of the news stories that you will not see on the main page of CNN, or on international news at all, and you will be able to understand our passion for gun ownership. http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

The aforementioned chronicles up to date instances of law abiding citizens with a clean criminal record, defending their lives, the lives of their loved ones, and their property, against thugs and criminals who would seek to do them grievous bodily harm, to deprive them of their lives, or to deprive them of their property. It is important to understand, that in cities which have completely outlawed gun ownership (or attempted to), that these areas are the ones most frought with gun violence. Because while the liberal politicians who write and pass these laws, have only the best and most pure intentions at HEART, they have such detrimental unintended consequences. Laws like those, unfortunately, ensure that the law abiding citizen is deprived of the God given right to self-defense with a firearm, but that the criminal who disobeys laws by their very nature, is still able to obtain a firearm and the criminal, knowing that his victims who follow the law have a 99% chance of being unarmed, has an open invitation to commit violent acts with no threats of reprisal. Conversely, those states and cities which allow their citizens to own firearms and carry firearms, see a reduction in violent crimes across the board.

There will always exist horrible derranged people who do horrible derranged things Dec. But can you in good conscience, tell the 74 year old grandmother, to 42 year old father of three, the 22 year old female college student, that because there are people who do bad things with guns on occasion around the country, that they have to call 911 and pray that the Police can arrive in time before the 74 yr old grandmother suffers greivous bodily harm and death, before the 42 year old father of three cannot return to his children and wife that night, before the 22 year old female college student is brutalized, raped, and killed by a sick and sadistic killer. Will you tell them, that they must be martyrs, that they must be martyr's because there exists bad people, who do bad things, with a tool which can be used for evil, but which is overwhelmingly used for good in this country? Tell them that, that you want to take away the only shot they have at surviving such an attack, that they have to close their eyes and pray that the sick sadistic human beings that attack them DECIDE to spare their lives.

I won't tell them that, and I will continue to exercise the rights that my founders decided were important to protect and preserve, and if God forbid, a sick and sadistic human being decides to accost me or my family members, I can sit comfortably knowing, that I WILL DECIDE whether I live or die, whether I suffer grievous bodily harm or not, at the hands of a sick violent individual. I will not beg for mercy from someone who cannot comprehend the concept, and I will not close my eyes and pray that there are Police close enough to come save me, before the life leaves my body at the hands of a killer.

[dec11]

I'm confused, we have differing view points on the private ownership of firearms, and because of that, I have quite a bit of growing up to do? My work in the field of Constitutional Law/Constitutional Interpretation has been published, so I hope it is not a matter of credentials on the subject which is making you aprehensive to discuss it with me, I assure you, I'm qualified despite only being 25 years old.

You have posited your argument with a straw man attack, of course I don't feel that its correct for a 'crazed lunatic' to acquire weapons and enable him to commit a mass shooting on innocent civilians. I'm sorry that your society was nearly destroyed from indiscriminate gun&bomb violence, I truly am dec11, but it is important to understand the CONTEXT of the society in which we are speaking of. OUR society was BUILT on gun violence, our firearms were what enabled us to throw off the chains of British oppression and form a country which many argue is the greatest yet to exist on Earth, with the most individual liberties and prosperity. We have become a true global hegemony in the span of 236 years, an impressive feat when measured against the rise of other societies.

Your argument is the typical argument made by so many liberals in our country, but it ignores so many facets of our society. First, there is a fallacy which posits that those of us who are law abiding citizens, that exercise our God given, Constitutionally protected right to own and carry firearms concealed about our persons are 'afraid of something,' are 'hiding from something,' or are 'paranoid.' We like to say, that we would much rather have a firearm and never need one, then to need a firearm, and not have one. In our country, the US Supreme Court, the highest in our land, has ruled that the Police bear absolutely no liability to protect innocent citizens. On its face, it seems like a rather harsh ruling, however it simply acknowledges the fact that police officers and police forces, are not omnipotent God like forces, which are able to be everywhere, at every moment, where ever bad things are happening at in our society. There are those of us in our society, who, being law abiding citizens, choose to exercise this great right that our founders thought so important to be protected that they list it SECOND in our Bill of Rights behind only the freedom of speech and assembly. They felt that firearm ownership was a tenet of a free society, a society which should have the capacity not to just defend itself from the evils of others in society, but to defend itself from the evils perpetrated by men in government for THOUSANDS of years preceding the 236 years our country has been in existence. Many like to extoll the virtues of a free society, and speak of despotism as if its so very old, and as if freedom has been around for so long. It is not, FREEDOM is a NEW idea by historical and societal standards, and it is the firearm which allows freedom to be preserved, because the founders recognized something inherent in firearms which is so very unique.

The unique thing about firearms Dec11, is that they are a force multiplier, and a great equalizer. They allow one person to have a considerable impact, but better then that, they allow a very weak person to defeat a very strong person. Never before in history has such a weapon existed. A 74 year old grandmother with frail, weak, brittle bones can successfully defeat a young, strong, virile attacker. A 42 year old father of three who is caught in a parking garage alone, with no police within 5 minutes of him, can successfully fend off 2,4,8, even 10 attackers at once, giving him the chance to see his three children and wife again. While it is true that gun violence exists in our country, I should remind you that only the most grotesque aspects of gun ownership are displayed by the media, and seldom does the news report how often guns SAVE LIVES. It doesn't make for sensational headlines, and when it does make its way into the media, they often report the victim as being 'lucky' to be alive. It's often very easy to overlook the profound impact guns can have on those weakest in society, because many of us on this board are big strong men, who believe ourselves to be able to handle ourselves in tough situations. But I challenge many of you to think about your loved ones, your women, think about them and whether or not you'd want them to have a fighting chance getting into their car in the evening against an attacker twice their size, or multiple attackers twice their size. Firearms allow them to do this. Our countries own FBI, reports that firearms are used 1,500,000 to 2,000,000 times per year to SAVE LIVES, over 90% of those instances, the mere presence of the firearm being displayed was enough to dissuade the attacker from continuing. Juxtapose those numbers with the estimated 15,000 or so gun deaths in a country of 340,000,000 people, per year. Those are total gun deaths, not all are murders, it includes suicides, negligent discharges (accidents), and even lawful self-defense with a firearm is considered a gun homicide. When you look at it through that lens, it begins to come into focus.

We Americans severely lack the ability to see our actions and our lives through the lenses of other people not from our country. I would propose however, that you yourself Dec, are not allowing yourself to put on the appropriate lense to see in our society, how absolutely beneficial lawful gun ownership can be. Please, click this link with an open mind, and browse through some of the news stories that you will not see on the main page of CNN, or on international news at all, and you will be able to understand our passion for gun ownership. http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

The aforementioned chronicles up to date instances of law abiding citizens with a clean criminal record, defending their lives, the lives of their loved ones, and their property, against thugs and criminals who would seek to do them grievous bodily harm, to deprive them of their lives, or to deprive them of their property. It is important to understand, that in cities which have completely outlawed gun ownership (or attempted to), that these areas are the ones most frought with gun violence. Because while the liberal politicians who write and pass these laws, have only the best and most pure intentions at HEART, they have such detrimental unintended consequences. Laws like those, unfortunately, ensure that the law abiding citizen is deprived of the God given right to self-defense with a firearm, but that the criminal who disobeys laws by their very nature, is still able to obtain a firearm and the criminal, knowing that his victims who follow the law have a 99% chance of being unarmed, has an open invitation to commit violent acts with no threats of reprisal. Conversely, those states and cities which allow their citizens to own firearms and carry firearms, see a reduction in violent crimes across the board.

There will always exist horrible derranged people who do horrible derranged things Dec. But can you in good conscience, tell the 74 year old grandmother, to 42 year old father of three, the 22 year old female college student, that because there are people who do bad things with guns on occasion around the country, that they have to call 911 and pray that the Police can arrive in time before the 74 yr old grandmother suffers greivous bodily harm and death, before the 42 year old father of three cannot return to his children and wife that night, before the 22 year old female college student is brutalized, raped, and killed by a sick and sadistic killer. Will you tell them, that they must be martyrs, that they must be martyr's because there exists bad people, who do bad things, with a tool which can be used for evil, but which is overwhelmingly used for good in this country? Tell them that, that you want to take away the only shot they have at surviving such an attack, that they have to close their eyes and pray that the sick sadistic human beings that attack them DECIDE to spare their lives.

I won't tell them that, and I will continue to exercise the rights that my founders decided were important to protect and preserve, and if God forbid, a sick and sadistic human being decides to accost me or my family members, I can sit comfortably knowing, that I WILL DECIDE whether I live or die, whether I suffer grievous bodily harm or not, at the hands of a sick violent individual. I will not beg for mercy from someone who cannot comprehend the concept, and I will not close my eyes and pray that there are Police close enough to come save me, before the life leaves my body at the hands of a killer.

why did i think you were studying medicine? i could have swore you said that?

to me, you display almost agoraphobic symptoms, do you spend time worrying about possible violence coming your way?

the law never claims to be perfect and it cant be everywhere every time, but i'll hedge a fair bet that it would be alot worse without policed societies. we just can't support anarchy when bad things happen.

you guys have access to plenty of non lethal defence, CS sprays, tasers etc etc. ive seen a few ppl get a face full of CS and its game over very fast. secure homes adequately, dont place oneself in possible dangerous situations. when i did doors and ppl asked me for directions to a certain bars etc in the city, alot have spurned my advice about not walking through certain bad areas on the way. now think of when that person gets jumped on that street and mugged etc, it wouldnt have happened if they'd have taken a taxi like advised. theres alot ppl can do to keep themselves out of danger besides carrying a lethal weapon.

the overwhelming majority of criminals operate under conditions that protect them from being caught, those conditions can be spotted and avoided. sure there will always be out of the blue occurrences that can occur anywhere.

[dec11]

well my sleeping tabs have just kicked in and i can barely think of what my names is now.

i just had a laugh at how my 'crazy american questions' quotes have been interspersed through the shootings and doom and gloom posts of this thread

[Lunk1]

why did i think you were studying medicine? i could have swore you said that?

to me, you display almost agoraphobic symptoms, do you spend time worrying about possible violence coming your way?

the law never claims to be perfect and it cant be everywhere every time, but i'll hedge a fair bet that it would be alot worse without policed societies. we just can't support anarchy when bad things happen.

you guys have access to plenty of non lethal defence, CS sprays, tasers etc etc. ive seen a few ppl get a face full of CS and its game over very fast. secure homes adequately, dont place oneself in possible dangerous situations. when i did doors and ppl asked me for directions to a certain bars etc in the city, alot have spurned my advice about not walking through certain bad areas on the way. now think of when that person gets jumped on that street and mugged etc, it wouldnt have happened if they'd have taken a taxi like advised. theres alot ppl can do to keep themselves out of danger besides carrying a lethal weapon.

the overwhelming majority of criminals operate under conditions that protect them from being caught, those conditions can be spotted and avoided. sure there will always be out of the blue occurrences that can occur anywhere.

These are compliance based weopons and because they cause no bodily harm they are really only useful gainst a compliant attacker. One who is truelly motivated would not be stopped by non lethal force.

[stocky121]

haha, North East England girls, I could listen to em all night, once got pulled out of a stag in N'castle and ended up spending 2 days in Durham with a sexy b1tch, ah good times, the lads were phoning me to see where the fvck I was and she was giving them a running commentary of what we were up to lol.

In Ireland however, you have to go to Mass with em for at least 4 Sundays in a row and you might get 2nd base lol

well thats the north east for you

[DCI]

i've lived in a few areas and traveled to alot of different places inside the US. Honestly some are like complete opposite worlds.

Ohh ya I'd imagine the deep south would be completely different but if you go to the major populated areas and they all look the same if not similar. But the culture stays roughly the same, wereas in Europe there are lot of differences there.

haha, North East England girls, I could listen to em all night, once got pulled out of a stag in N'castle and ended up spending 2 days in Durham with a sexy b1tch, ah good times, the lads were phoning me to see where the fvck I was and she was giving them a running commentary of what we were up to lol.

In Ireland however, you have to go to Mass with em for at least 4 Sundays in a row and you might get 2nd base lol

You're just doing it wrong with the irish ones

[gixxerboy1]

take a look at elections. We say we want free elections and domocracy all over the world. We complain the election in Afghanistan was corrupt. Our media complained about Egypt's results. Egypt picked who they wanted thats what a free election is.
Then you look at our elections here. How much money is spent on it. Sheldon Adelson gave an interview this weekend. He says he has already spent over 70 million on this election and is willing to go to 100 million on it, How does that not look corrupt to every other country?

[Lunk1]

take a look at elections. We say we want free elections and domocracy all over the world. We complain the election in Afghanistan was corrupt. Our media complained about Egypt's results. Egypt picked who they wanted thats what a free election is.
Then you look at our elections here. How much money is spent on it. Sheldon Adelson gave an interview this weekend. He says he has already spent over 70 million on this election and is willing to go to 100 million on it, How does that not look corrupt to every other country?

Political canidates should NOT be allowed to take $ from special interest groups or big businesses. What happened to the days of campaign $ being raised by small dinners and meet and greets where if Joe Blow the small town plant worker wanted to support you by donating $20 then great. Now Elections are bought and paid for.

[jimmyinkedup]

Political canidates should NOT be allowed to take $ from special interest groups or big businesses. What happened to the days of campaign $ being raised by small dinners and meet and greets where if Joe Blow the small town plant worker wanted to support you by donating $20 then great. Now Elections are bought and paid for.

Damn Gix you nailed it. I couldnt agree more man.