Dogs and genetic diposition

[Lunk1]

While whoring a bit ago a topic of debate came up. Since not everybody visits the whore house I thought I would get more input.

The question is wether or not certain dog breeds can be "trusted" do to their natural inherant instincts.

This isn't about if an individual do is bad or good because even as pointed out a dog with certain predisposes natures can be taught to be obediant.

But over all are some dog breeds just naturally dangerous or is it simply based on their upbringing and training.

Another words nurture or nature????

[red_hulk]

I have a pit bull and it pisses me off when people make them out to be monsters. I've never met a mean dog personally, but dogs that are trained to be or abused will turn out with a bad disposition. It's usually a trainer/owners fault and rarely, not never, the animals.

People do forget that that is what they are, animals, and if they are provoked will attack. So will people. And people would attack for much less.

The problem with my breed of choice is their power and ability to lock their jaws. So when they do attack they cause much more damage. There was a case on the news the other week where an older man was walking his pit and had a heart attack. The dog wouldn't let anyone near his owner. Cops came and shot the dog dead. Shit pisses me off as if they can't shoot it in the leg or subdue the dog, they opt for death.

I can seriously go on forever so ill leave it at that

[Times Roman]

not sure about dangerous, since once domesticated, most of the hostility has already been bread out.

however, some dogs like the Australian Cattle Dog is extremely intelligent and really only wants to do a few certain things. Fetch comes instinctively and they will play for hours until almost ready to drop. this is a excellent example of nature vs. nurture, since these dogs need zero training to perform these tasks.

[AXx]

Lunk would you like me to join in?? Or just watch this till its gets interesting??? Lol

[Dpyle]

Dogs much like people, regardless of breeding some are just natural born assholes. That's my take on it as I have seen bully breeds that were the biggest babies you could find and tiny breeds that are the most aggressive you could imagine and vice versa.

[Rwy]

Its funny. I have a german shepherd male not fixed and every once and awhile he takes a shot at the crown and I give him a little beating and I keep it moving. Working dogs need an alpha male presence or they are going to try and become an alpha male. I think I am pretty good with dogs. With that being said....

The other day I am in the store getting him some raw hide and this black guy walks in on the ghetto side asking for a training book on a pressa canario. I look at him and go they dont make books to train that dog. Have you ever even owned a dog which he replied no to. I was trying to explain how dangerous this dog is when its raised by an inexpereinced owner and how there are not even rescues for these dogs because they are so hard to break once they come into there own.

So certain dogs require certain skills or some will becomes problems.

[Shsm]

Its funny. I have a german shepherd male not fixed and every once and awhile he takes a shot at the crown and I give him a little beating and I keep it moving. Working dogs need an alpha male presence or they are going to try and become an alpha male. I think I am pretty good with dogs. With that being said....

The other day I am in the store getting him some raw hide and this black guy walks in on the ghetto side asking for a training book on a pressa canario. I look at him and go they dont make books to train that dog. Have you ever even owned a dog which he replied no to. I was trying to explain how dangerous this dog is when its raised by an inexpereinced owner and how there are not even rescues for these dogs because they are so hard to break once they come into there own.

So certain dogs require certain skills or some will becomes problems.

I love German Shepherds, they're the best dog breed in the world. I can't wait until I get my own...

[greenwell001]

Chocolate lab all the way. I had a 120lb boxhead that I loved. She made it 13 yrs. What the **** is a pressa canario?

[red_hulk]

Chocolate lab all the way. I had a 120lb boxhead that I loved. She made it 13 yrs. What the **** is a pressa canario?

Looks like a pit on steroids lol

[lestat85]

Just like with people, it's not the breed, but the individual dog's personality. Though, certain breeds are more dangerous than others, when they are aggressive. Again, it depends on the individual dog, though, and how it's raised. Not the breed.

[Gaspari1255]

All female dogs are hewas and untrustworthy.

[Shsm]

Looks like a pit on steroids lol

You're not kidding...

[greenwell001]

Looks like a bull mastif, are they the same?

[Lunk1]

Here is my point from the whore conversation earler.

I am not going to say that an individual dog is bad or good. Perhaps the ones that each one of you have is that exeption to the rule but....

I AM saying that even since domestication (as TR pointed out) certain breed have been bred to do certain jobs and behave in a certain manner. it is how they are wired. It's in their DNA so to speak.

I am a dog lover and have trained and raised dogs in my younger days a bit. But I have grown over the years to develope a distrust of certain breeds simply because I know what they are bred to do.

The argument that its not the dog its the owner doesnt sit well with me. Some of these breeds can appear very docile but are a virtual ticking time bomb because they have certain instincts and desires that are inherent to their breed,

For examples: Any dog can be trained to fetch, but a retriever has a strong desire bred into them to perform that act and therefore in most cases the training is easy or even non existant. Pointers are bred to point upland game birds for another example. They will do this even as a small puppy. The instincts are so strong that the only training necessary is obedience.

These examples can easily be turned around and be used against protection class dogs such as Rot, Dobies, Shepards and so on. The have a drive, a desire, an inherant need to to protect. This by nature makes them more dangerous to have as pets and especially with small children who may be viewed by the animal as a threat to it's territory.

Again I am sure that everyone here that has one of these type of dogs has been fortunate enough to get one that is an exeption to this and is the biggest baby and loves kids....but the disire to to what they have bben bred to do is still in there. All the obediance in the world can't take it out of them.

[JohnnyVegas]

We have a Pit or Staffordshire mix that is a total sweetheart but is dog aggressive in our community. She is fine almost everywhere else. Sometimes she can get into dominance scuffles at the dog park.

We don't know if it is because she is a Pit, but she is unreliable as many in that breed are. Even when she seems fine we need to be vigilant and never have a soft grip on here leash. She is only 40 pounds but is strong as an ox.

When she is wound up she will snap at anything that gets close to her head. I have been bitten twice while holding here back when she charges other dogs.

We have been working with her with I inconsistent results and we have a trainer that is recommending a shock collar. We don't know if we want to do that, but we can't have a dog that is dangerous.

[Lunk1]

We have a Pit or Staffordshire mix that is a total sweetheart but is dog aggressive in our community. She is fine almost everywhere else. Sometimes she can get into dominance scuffles at the dog park.

We don't know if it is because she is a Pit, but she is unreliable as many in that breed are. Even when she seems fine we need to be vigilant and never have a soft grip on here leash. She is only 40 pounds but is strong as an ox.

When she is wound up she will snap at anything that gets close to her head. I have been bitten twice while holding here back when she charges other dogs.

We have been working with her with I inconsistent results and we have a trainer that is recommending a shock collar. We don't know if we want to do that, but we can't have a dog that is dangerous.

JV..I have used shock collars for years on bird dogs...they wrk great and are far mor humane than ppl think. I have turned the seeting all of the way up and at best it is like a 9V on your tongue...but they get it. After a short time just putting the collar on changes their attitude.

Thanks for the post...I honestly feel like it drives my point home further even if that wasn't the meaning.

[MuscleInk]

JV..I have used shock collars for years on bird dogs...they wrk great and are far mor humane than ppl think. I have turned the seeting all of the way up and at best it is like a 9V on your tongue...but they get it. After a short time just putting the collar on changes their attitude.

Thanks for the post...I honestly feel like it drives my point home further even if that wasn't the meaning.

I used citronella collars. The look on their damn face is priceless when it goes off and it makes the house smell springtime fresh!!!!

[ghettoboyd]

I love German Shepherds, they're the best dog breed in the world. I can't wait until I get my own...

i agree with you bro german sheperds are the best...

[dec11]

Looks like a bull mastif, are they the same?

yep, dogo argentino, presa and cane corso are all mastiffs just from diff regions. saw a docu about a dogo arg that cleaned up a puma to protect two kids, thing had half its face torn off but still killed the puma. i want one of the three for a guard dog, but they're illegal in Ireland.

cane




dogo

[dec11]

Dogs much like people, regardless of breeding some are just natural born assholes. That's my take on it as I have seen bully breeds that were the biggest babies you could find and tiny breeds that are the most aggressive you could imagine and vice versa.

thats just a mad crazy statement.

ive two dalmatians that are the sweetest animals on earth and infact, i have yet to have had a dog that is an 'asshole'

[Hunter]

I have hunted with many different breeds of dogs. Most of it comes down to socializing puppies and keeping a firm hand. My chesapeake bay retriever however doesnt hunt well with other dogs. He doesnt pull any stunts but he deffiantly wants to. I used shock collar on all my dogs but it should never be used to inflict pain its just a stimuli. You should look for a perk of the ears etc. Its just to get their attention. I love my dogs alot they sleep right in our hallway between us and the kids. However the worst thing you can do is treat a dog like a person it just confuses them.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

I have a Pressa canario, 1 yr old, 100+ lbs. Really mild mannered, gets beat up at the dog park constantly by dogs he could shred to pieces. Just a big baby that only wants to play and hump. But, if anything, dog or human is threatening to me or the gf it's like he's a completely different dog. I had my buddy push me and my dog was about 30 yards away, he sprinted at my buddy and body checked him and stood in between us until I calmed him down. The lab I owned previously was nothing like this and would never had been so protective. Instincts and breed definately play a role in their behavior.

[lovbyts]

I have a Pressa canario, 1 yr old, 100+ lbs. Really mild mannered, gets beat up at the dog park constantly by dogs he could shred to pieces. Just a big baby that only wants to play and hump. But, if anything, dog or human is threatening to me or the gf it's like he's a completely different dog. I had my buddy push me and my dog was about 30 yards away, he sprinted at my buddy and body checked him and stood in between us until I calmed him down. The lab I owned previously was nothing like this and would never had been so protective. Instincts and breed definately play a role in their behavior.

We had a doberman like that. I think I was the only one he never bit or snapped at also. He broke his cable on his run to get at my sisters BF onetime when he was trying to intimidate me. I was like 13 and he was 21. Didnt go over to well with our dog. He didnt body check though, it was a very solid bite and hold until I walked away and he made sure to get his point across.

[Lunk1]

I have a Pressa canario, 1 yr old, 100+ lbs. Really mild mannered, gets beat up at the dog park constantly by dogs he could shred to pieces. Just a big baby that only wants to play and hump. But, if anything, dog or human is threatening to me or the gf it's like he's a completely different dog. I had my buddy push me and my dog was about 30 yards away, he sprinted at my buddy and body checked him and stood in between us until I calmed him down. The lab I owned previously was nothing like this and would never had been so protective. Instincts and breed definately play a role in their behavior.

Im glad you chimed in SS and also glad you have experience in both ends of the spectrum of dogs. Would you not agree that certain precautions have to be taken with the Pressa that you would have never had to take with the lab and that the Pressa just simply could never be "trusted" like you would the lab?

[JD250]

Hundreds of years of breeding has been used to get the exact result desired in any given blood line for any given breed, of course the AKC has totally fvcked that up here in the states. Bottom line is that some dogs are wired to be aggressive.....that doesn't mean they aren't nice dogs or good pets it just means that for generations they were bred to obtain certain traits, some owners are total assholes and make dogs mean and sometimes dogs are just plain mean all by themselves.

I've trained several dogs in my life for hunting and can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that dogs and their personalities are as varied as the people who own them, but to say that it's ALL about how they are raised is a ludicrous statement and to say that all dogs of a certain breed are killers is just as ludicrous although one MUST consider the traits that that breed has inherently.

I use terriers for coyote hunting and can tell you without a doubt that they are VERY aggressive animals, they will also cuddle up with you in the recliner if you let them. However I have hunted with one in particular that was just plain mean and had no use for other animals or people, he was raised in the same environment as the others, just didn't take to being social but he did have all the traits that were bred into that bloodline.....

[Lunk1]

Hundreds of years of breeding has been used to get the exact result desired in any given blood line for any given breed, of course the AKC has totally fvcked that up here in the states. Bottom line is that some dogs are wired to be aggressive.....that doesn't mean they aren't nice dogs or good pets it just means that for generations they were bred to obtain certain traits, some owners are total assholes and make dogs mean and sometimes dogs are just plain mean all by themselves.

I've trained several dogs in my life for hunting and can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that dogs and their personalities are as varied as the people who own them, but to say that it's ALL about how they are raised is a ludicrous statement and to say that all dogs of a certain breed are killers is just as ludicrous although one MUST consider the traits that that breed has inherently.

I use terriers for coyote hunting and can tell you without a doubt that they are VERY aggressive animals, they will also cuddle up with you in the recliner if you let them. However I have hunted with one in particular that was just plain mean and had no use for other animals or people, he was raised in the same environment as the others, just didn't take to being social but he did have all the traits that were bred into that bloodline.....

Thanks JD..I think you drive my point home as well. Certain breeds are simply hard wired to have certain characteristics thus making them higher risk if you will.

[Dukkit]

Ive owned Labs, pits, rots, chow chows, terriers.

They were all great dogs.

None were aggressive by themselves.

Some were aggressive when I was threatened (or they thought I was)

Some were aggressive when another dog confronted them or bothered them.

But those were all situations.

Like just a person.

Im aggressive if someone threatens someone I know.
Or if someone is aggressive towards me.

Its that simple.

There is nothing in their DNA.

Thats like saying womans DNA should have breeding in them to cook well.

Or mens DNA should have breeding to hunt.

Not even.

[Lunk1]

Ive owned Labs, pits, rots, chow chows, terriers.

They were all great dogs.

None were aggressive by themselves.

Some were aggressive when I was threatened (or they thought I was)

Some were aggressive when another dog confronted them or bothered them.

But those were all situations.

Like just a person.

Im aggressive if someone threatens someone I know.
Or if someone is aggressive towards me.

Its that simple.

There is nothing in their DNA.

Thats like saying womans DNA should have breeding in them to cook well.

Or mens DNA should have breeding to hunt.

Not even.

If ya think about it Dukk it is!

Women are hard wired to do domestic thing. They are nesters by nature.

They have certain traits that are geneticaly coded into their DNA

Same with men...we still are hard wired to hunt, gather, protect and provide.

By nature we are more aggressive than our sexual counterpart.

Millions of years of breeding has mad humans just as predictable as dog breeds.

[Dukkit]

If ya think about it Dukk it is!

Women are hard wired to do domestic thing. They are nesters by nature.

They have certain traits that are geneticaly coded into their DNA

Same with men...we still are hard wired to hunt, gather, protect and provide.

By nature we are more aggressive than our sexual counterpart.

Millions of years of breeding has mad humans just as predictable as dog breeds.

We are more aggressive not because of DNA instincts... but because we have testosterone and DHT amounts that women do not.
That wasnt "bred" into us. Thats how we were created/made/evolved.

Now if you want to argue that some dogs have more aggressive traits due to maybe different hormones or such... then thats a different story

[Lunk1]

We are more aggressive not because of DNA instincts... but because we have testosterone and DHT amounts that women do not.
That wasnt "bred" into us. Thats how we were created/made/evolved.

Now if you want to argue that some dogs have more aggressive traits due to maybe different hormones or such... then thats a different story

Checking the hormone levels of different breeds of dogs...that might be an interesting thing to do

[JohnnyVegas]

Checking the hormone levels of different breeds of dogs...that might be an interesting thing to do

I have always wondered about that. When you breed a dog for muscle mass, it is really breading for hormone levels? How does my female Pit mix have such thick muscle and how the hell does she maintain it eating dry dog food?

[Lunk1]

I have always wondered about that. When you breed a dog for muscle mass, it is really breading for hormone levels? How does my female Pit mix have such thick muscle and how the hell does she maintain it eating dry dog food?

and it would explain the aggresive nature of certain breeds...naturally higher homone levels hmmmm????

[dec11]

Ive owned Labs, pits, rots, chow chows, terriers.

They were all great dogs.

None were aggressive by themselves.

Some were aggressive when I was threatened (or they thought I was)

Some were aggressive when another dog confronted them or bothered them.

But those were all situations.

Like just a person.

Im aggressive if someone threatens someone I know.
Or if someone is aggressive towards me.

Its that simple.

There is nothing in their DNA.

Thats like saying womans DNA should have breeding in them to cook well.

Or mens DNA should have breeding to hunt.

Not even.

out of all the 'guard' type breeds the rotty is still hard to beat!

[Rwy]

I love German Shepherds, they're the best dog breed in the world. I can't wait until I get my own...

They are amazing animals. The loyalty and devotion he has for me and my family is uncanny. I have full blown conversations with him and he understand exactly what I am saying.

[Rwy]

I have a Pressa canario, 1 yr old, 100+ lbs. Really mild mannered, gets beat up at the dog park constantly by dogs he could shred to pieces. Just a big baby that only wants to play and hump. But, if anything, dog or human is threatening to me or the gf it's like he's a completely different dog. I had my buddy push me and my dog was about 30 yards away, he sprinted at my buddy and body checked him and stood in between us until I calmed him down. The lab I owned previously was nothing like this and would never had been so protective. Instincts and breed definately play a role in their behavior.

Your dog is one year old. Its still a baby and what you are doing is ****ing stupid.

[Rwy]

Im glad you chimed in SS and also glad you have experience in both ends of the spectrum of dogs. Would you not agree that certain precautions have to be taken with the Pressa that you would have never had to take with the lab and that the Pressa just simply could never be "trusted" like you would the lab?

You are using the wrong word. Its not about trust. Its about a dog misreading a situation and that can happen. The other day I was walking my dog and a meter maid pulled our her ticket machine (looks like a big gun) and was coming at my direction fast and my dog took it as a threat and he let her know he didnt like it.

Now as a responsible dog owner I am constantly watching and am trying to control these situation.

[Rwy]

Thanks JD..I think you drive my point home as well. Certain breeds are simply hard wired to have certain characteristics thus making them higher risk if you will.

Yes if you have a working dog you dont let it run lose in the back yard with your kids friends. That can def mis read something. Their job is to protect and thats what they watch for. My gf was walking the dog on the street and someone women came up and was talking very close to my gfs face waving her arms and raising her voice. My dog took it as a threat and he jumped up and pushed the women back. He said get the **** out of her space lady and she did. No a lab is not going to do that but most working dogs will.

[73mustang]

My two bits for what it's worth... I have owned a few dogs throughout the years, from Pitbulls to Great Danes.
NO dog cannot be behaviorally modified, period. A bad dog is only bad because of the owner. Period.
Dogs need to know their place in your pack, since they obviously come from a pack hierarchy system. You MUST be the Alpha, and they must be Omega. Once they understand this they are very content because they know where they stand. A dog that bites, growls, or shows aggression are dogs that are jockeying for position because they don't know where they stand usually because people humanize them, which inevitably confuses them and gets them into trouble.
With proper pack leadership, all dogs can become "good" dogs. They want to please, they all want to know love and affection, which they will happily give back in spades. A dog that has been mistreated merely requires a lot more patience and compassion, and almost always will come around, but it can take serious effort. To some up my thoughts, no dog is beyond redemption, and all dogs can be fantastic pets.

[Flagg]

There are no such thing as bad dogs, just bad owners.

That said, some breeds do have a disposition to aggression more than other dogs and there's no denying that a bigger dog will do more damage.

I've known little old ladies that have owned perfectly fine staffies and "tough guys" with retrievers. But lets face facts, a golden retriever is far less likely to turn on a person than a pitbull would. That said, certain breeds get a bad rep unfairly. I mean if anyone has seen the size of a St Bernard or Newfoundland they could easily kill a person in the wrong situation. I've known black labs to get pissed off very quickly.

I really love dogs, but of course some dogs are more prone to aggression than others. It pisses me off that people say they like dogs but only own pit bulls or staffs, just seems like a status thing then.

EDIT: In my opinion, there's no such thing as a domesticated animal. If dogs and cats were truly domesticated, they both wouldnt try and kill small animals in the woods (which both animals will do given the chance).

[dec11]

There are no such thing as bad dogs, just bad owners.

That said, some breeds do have a disposition to aggression more than other dogs and there's no denying that a bigger dog will do more damage.

I've known little old ladies that have owned perfectly fine staffies and "tough guys" with retrievers. But lets face facts, a golden retriever is far less likely to turn on a person than a pitbull would. That said, certain breeds get a bad rep unfairly. I mean if anyone has seen the size of a St Bernard or Newfoundland they could easily kill a person in the wrong situation. I've known black labs to get pissed off very quickly.

I really love dogs, but of course some dogs are more prone to aggression than others. It pisses me off that people say they like dogs but only own pit bulls or staffs, just seems like a status thing then.

EDIT: In my opinion, there's no such thing as a domesticated animal. If dogs and cats were truly domesticated, they both wouldnt try and kill small animals in the woods (which both animals will do given the chance).

exactly, i rescued a big dalmatian male who was unusually large for the breed and had been kept in a run with kids poking sticks at him, he was probably one of the most dangerous dogs ive had or known, he had to be harnessed and muzzle on walks and i had to fence right around my yard to keep him in and away from ppl.