This happened in my home state. Is that a lawsuit I smell brewing?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...ed-by-officer/
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This happened in my home state. Is that a lawsuit I smell brewing?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...ed-by-officer/
I saw this, too. Thought it was pretty crazy. How did they know he wasn't just attacked?
Perhaps the cop thought his manhood was a lethal weapon....
Its sad really, complete wasn't of life...
Campus cops=Paul Blart mall cop!
I assume the campus police in this situation do not carry tasers? I'm all for the officer protecting himself, but I would think a less lethal option would have been considered.
That's crazy. It is sad. I did find odd that they had to point out he was a muscular nude male and not just a nude male
Ya, you can already smell where this thing is headed. "Steroid using male gets nude and attacks campus police". :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigZthedestroyer
I'd like to hear how Shov or DSM would have handled this situation ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleInk
They shouldve used a stun gun.
stop in the name of the law!!Quote:
Originally Posted by lunk1
Yeah or called for backup and take the dude to the groundQuote:
Originally Posted by songdog
Tazers are becoming pretty standard issue equipment anymore not to mention I am sure he had mace and an ASP or a Baton atr his disposal. Oh...and he could have simply retreated and got help.Quote:
Originally Posted by songdog
THIS is what happens when you hire college kids to play police man. The 2 major state Universities here won't let the Campus Police carry guns!!
I was somewhat surprised to see campus police issued guns when I moved to the US. Unless things have changed recently in Canada, campus officers are not issued any side arms - there may be guns locked in the cruisers, but some how I think not. Although I was not raised in a country where the right to bear arms is a constitutional right, I certainly would WANT to be issued a side arm as a campus police. I've spoken to many Campus police in Canada who deal with domestic issues, especially Friday and Saturday evenings where alcohol is almost always involved and the officers are always cautious to engage because it is not uncommon for violence to escalate when alcohol is involved and in many situations, the perpetrators in domestic disputes often have weapons (knives, blunt object) at their disposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
While it really sux that deadly force was used. Keep in mind that in the abscence of other officers or stun guns ( I assume from what I have read that this was the case) then when you are approached by a college level wrestler most likely high on either PCP or Bath Salts and you tell the suspect to stop he comes forward you retreat then he continues to come forward you repeat your warning then when you run out of room to back up your choices are pretty simple either shoot him or hope he does not overpower you and choke you to death.
From everything I have read on this the officer did not dump his clip as is so often the case, rather he fired one shot to the chest. The suspect fell to the ground then got up and tried to continue his assualt but was unable to as he rapidly lost function due to bleed out. The fact that he got back up shows that he was pretty determined to do bodily harm to the officer, as I say this really sux but if the officer was alone and did not have any other options then he did what he felt was nessacary. Keep in mind that it would take a college level wrestler about a minute to choke a less capable person to death.
By the way I am all for non-lethal force I have actually written several papers on the need for bean bag type multishot weapons and thier ability to diffuse situations like this. I wrote them after a situation occured where I live where a knife wielding father of three was off his medication and had to be shot in front of his children under simalar circumstances to prevent an attack on the wife since the officer had no other weapon available.
The problem is that I want agree and argue with FFM. The reason is because we are ALL monday Morning quarterbacking this thing and we were not in the officers shoes. It's easy to say I would have done this and I would have done that BUT...you were not there.
The officer obviously felt that his life was in danger and used deadly force to protect it. Completely justified...sad, but justified
Canadian campus police, at least in MB, are not issued firearms. They do carry batons however. Canadian campus police are actually using the term police less and less often. An old coworker, who also worked at a local university, told me they were instructed to only call themselves police when making arrests or entering dorm rooms. They were to call themselves security for any minor issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscleInk
I assume the reason why he was described as being muscular was an attempt to justify how a nude assailant could cause the officer to be afraid enough to use a firearm to defend himself.
Yeah its the kind of shit that rips out your heart, a reportedly nice kid looses it and winds up dead. But by the same token when faced by a very muscular naked guy ( who it is reported was a college wrestler and the cop may have known this) high as a kite and clearly acting very crazy coming toward you when you have your gun drawn I really would not want to wrestle him and hope for the best and leave my kids without a father.
This is exactly what they teach you in the academy. There are no warning shots or "injury shots". If you fire a shot, you are to to shoot CENTER MASS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Far from massive
Not sure about the states, but Canadian law allows deadly force when there is fear of death or grievous bodily harm, which is basically a fancy way of saying serious injury. If the officer was genuinely afraid for his life, then, as unfortunate as it is, he did the right thing. I would however hope that, if they aren't already trained, that this shows the need for training officers how to defend themselves without needing to go straight to their firearms. As with many other professions, I think this shows the need to have more options available for officer safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
Agreed if the cop had shot trying to wound him the assailant would no doubt have continued his attack and who knows what the outcome would have been, maybe several other people would have been shot before it ended.
Myself I do not think I could shoot an unarmed person, this is one reason I will never be a police officer.
Exactly. Fire centre mass and make sure the threat is incapacitated, which almost always means dead when firearms are involved. Once the gun is drawn, you have very few options. The last thing you ever want is to risk the attacker taking your gun from you if it turns into a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronzer
Yes and NO Bronzer...LE is trained to stop the threat. Has nothing to do with center mass. You do whatever is neccessary to stop the threat. If that means reactionary drills (2 to the body one to the head) I love that shit! or 15 rnds, reload and fire 15 more...so be it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronzer
I actually train CWP students to aim pelvic girdle. Puting one betwwen the running ligyhts takes to much muscle memory and fine motor skill work under stress, center mass is organ rich but a motivated assailant can still carry on a fight with one to the lungs or heart even. You bust up the pelvis and spinal chord...no more fight!!
Center MassQuote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
It's the 21 ft rule. It says that an assailant can clear 21 ft of space and deliver a deadly blow to an officer before the officer can react and utilize his weapon.
This is due to the time it takes the mind to process the information and react to an action.
It's 21 feet in 1.5 seconds for the average person. An athletic person or someone well trained may even be faster. This applies to knifes and similar weapons, not unarmed assailants. I would hope that most law enforcement should be able to deal with unarmed assailants without having to go straight to their firearm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
Hopefully this is a lesson to the university that they need to provide some form of non lethal defence as well as training to their people to hopefully prevent more situations like this. It's too bad a young man had to lose his life in this situation.
i agree Lestat..I have never seen a police force Campus or other wise that issues a fire arm but no intermiediate weapons. This is clearly a training issue!Quote:
Originally Posted by lestat85
A muscular nude man verses a cop with a loaded gun. Need I say more? and use of lethal deadly force against the nude man? I could see the cop maybe firing a warning shot or even a shot into the guys leg to stop him. But only enough force necessary to stop the nude man. this is just another sad situation that will get swept under the rug. The nude man will probably have drugs in his system and they will say he was a danger to himself and others so deadly force was called for. Personally I think the nude man was probably packing more (meat) uhum I mean heat than the cop and the cop was jealous of the guys muscular body. What a waste...
Naked zombie attacks. More than likely another tragic ending to experimenting with drugs.
There are a number of videos showing cops encountering PCP addicts who were unarmed...fear for their life? FKN right! Ah human being on mind altering drugs can be a powerful and dangerous weapon by itself!
I understand the idea that warning shots or leg and arm shots sound like a good idea. However, speaking as someone trained and who wears a firearm for work, these are highly dangerous and not a realistic solution. The reason you are trained to fire centre mass has nothing to do with damage done, but rather being able to hit your target under stress. As you encounter high levels of stress, your ability to hit a small target diminishes and the likelihood of missing is increased, risking an innocent bystander being hit. As far as warning shots are concerned, a bullet will travel a very long distance if not interrupted and there have been people wounded and killed by accident when guns have been fired into the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shol'va
There have been many reported incidents where people high on various drugs, especially PCP, have been shot in the chest and continued to attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
I have personally had to restrain a person high on coke and meth. The person was lucky if the were even 100lbs and it took 5 of us to restrain them, with difficulty.
Honestly that sounds like fun...I still think I would have loved to become a cop!Quote:
Originally Posted by lestat85
ahh so now we are talking about the appropriate use of force to subdue the man.. perhaps he was on pcp or other drug that made him capable of killing even after the officer had shot him severing his spinal cord.. we have documented studies of that happening..Quote:
Originally Posted by Shol'va
or
the college/highschool student shooting students, since he is not a threat to the officer perhaps the use of force to stop him would be to use harsh words, and then maybe sending for his parents, and then maybe a threat of suspension, then we could taser him (no wait that's too harsh after all he may be underage) etc etc..
According to the law of the land, even a citizen when confronted with an attacker that communicates intent to kill/harm, has the opportunity and capability to do so, naked or not, if the victim (the campus security) has the lawful right to protect himself, then others that may be effected by this threat if he believes/thinks/suspects he has the right to defend himself, if death is threatened, then that same level of defense can be deployed..
Tasers are not effective in many cases where drugs are involved..
it's justified homicide.. sue him?? for doing his job?? or sue the college since they hired him, or the insurance policy that protects them...
I wonder why the cost of a college education is so expensive now a days, after all everyone keeps saying the teachers are not getting that money.. someone has to be right??
I think you are going to see more of this type of thing with the explosion of MMA. Lets be honest we all know someone that if they got close enough to engage a cop, the chances are decent not great but decent that they could subdue him.
I tried a few times. Where I live, they don't seem to like hiring young guys. It often takes applicants 3-7+ attempts. I've personally known, a few people, including myself, who have simply given up because it costs a lot of money between obtaining their requirements to apply and taking time off work to do their tests and interviews.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
The biggest problem with these types of confrontations is that once they are close enough to fight, they are close enough to attempt to take the gun. One of the scariest things you could have happen, would be to lose your weapon to the assailant.Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrydrpepper
As I've already said, if the officer didn't have any other intermediate weapons or training and was genuinely afraid that his life was in danger, then, as unfortunate as it is, he did the right thing.
It's impossible to really judge without knowing everything about what happened and what the officer was thinking.
[QUOTE=spywizard;6213121]ahh so now we are talking about the appropriate use of force to subdue the man.. perhaps he was on pcp or other drug that made him capable of killing even after the officer had shot him severing his spinal cord.. we have documented studies of that happening..
If that was the case then it was definitely justified.IMO and unless or until one of us are in the policeman's shoes at that time under those circumstances, it's easy to second guess. Who knows it could have even been a suicide by cop. We just don't have all the facts.