**Marcus's HIT Dungeon**

[scotty51312]

Thanks Kel. You're an enigma wrapped in a mystery. Yeah I need to throw my scale away. But that number for what ever reason is an important one to me. For now anyway.

Scales aren't necessarily evil IMO, with a combination of the way I look and at what weight I'm at I get a good picture of which way I'm heading. There have been times I've stayed the same weight and my body composition has changed quite a bit. Which was helpful information when I was trying to cut, and seemed to be adding lean mass.

But weight isn't a defining factor for me. I look bigger now at 5'11 207 than i did at 225

[kelkel]

Thanks Kel. You're an enigma wrapped in a mystery. Yeah I need to throw my scale away. But that number for what ever reason is an important one to me. For now anyway.

You stole that from Batman. Great line though! Nothing personal against scales but I do just fine every few weeks checking things in the mirror. I can see and feel if things are going in the correct direction. Scales got kicked to the curb when I stopped competing, and that was a loooong time ago...

[Black]

You stole that from Batman. Great line though! Nothing personal against scales but I do just fine every few minutes checking things in the mirror. I can see and feel if things are going in the correct direction. Scales got kicked to the curb when I stopped competing, and that was a loooong time ago...

There ya go buddy.

[Capebuffalo]

You stole that from Batman. Great line though! Nothing personal against scales but I do just fine every few weeks checking things in the mirror. I can see and feel if things are going in the correct direction. Scales got kicked to the curb when I stopped competing, and that was a loooong time ago...

Stole is a harsh term. Borrowed without the intent of returning is a much better way to state it.
Hey I'm a work in progress. I finally am secure enough I don't have to throw heavy weight around poorly in the gym anymore. That took almost 30 years. So lbs on a bar don't matter anymore. But damn if the lbs on the scale still matters. I'll get there. It won't be today though. Or tomorrow. Lol

[Capebuffalo]

There ya go buddy.

Just realized you fixed that. Ha ha. Nice.

[kelkel]

Hey I'm a work in progress. I finally am secure enough I don't have to throw heavy weight around poorly in the gym anymore. That took almost 30 years. So lbs on a bar don't matter anymore. But damn if the lbs on the scale still matters. I'll get there. It won't be today though. Or tomorrow. Lol

Cape that's progress. Learning to control what you do and keep your ego out of it, thus putting the intended effort where it should be will make a big difference in a short period of time. Not saying weight isn't necessary, quite the opposite. Just not at the expense of sloppy form. And the scale is just another tool in your arsenal.

[Capebuffalo]

Bent over rows 1 warm 2 working
Seated cable row 2 working with a drop
Dead lifts 2 working.

Barbell curls 2 working

Shaking at this point. Nice.

[Back In Black]

Arse. Turned up at my gym this morning and it's closed all week. Looks like it will be over 2 weeks off lifting for me. Grrrrr

[Capebuffalo]

Arse. Turned up at my gym this morning and it's closed all week. Looks like it will be over 2 weeks off lifting for me. Grrrrr

That sucks. Damn.

[DontTaseMeBro]

Killed legs again today. Started with calves. They have really grown. Kicked the sh!t out of some deep "ass to grass" squats. Ten of those to failure will definitely have you gasping. I love leg day - its a sickness.

[kelkel]

Arse. Turned up at my gym this morning and it's closed all week. Looks like it will be over 2 weeks off lifting for me. Grrrrr

Why would they do that without notice?

Killed legs again today. Started with calves. They have really grown. Kicked the sh!t out of some deep "ass to grass" squats. Ten of those to failure will definitely have you gasping. I love leg day - its a sickness.

yep.

[Fllifter]

Bent over rows 1 warm 2 working
Seated cable row 2 working with a drop
Dead lifts 2 working.

Barbell curls 2 working

Shaking at this point. Nice.

Cape are you currently on cycle ?

[Capebuffalo]

Cape are you currently on cycle ?

Not currently.

[Back In Black]

That sucks. Damn.

Yes. It really fvcking does!

Why would they do that without notice?

I was away all last week job training. I dare say they put a notice out last week. Hopefully we are getting some new kit!

[Capebuffalo]

Ok. Marcus obviously is a huge Dorian fan and follower of his HIT principles. I having listened to Marcus also am a follower of his principles. I have seen the best results of my training since using them. But somewhere in the back if my head this seemed like something I had heard or seen or knew about slightly. Tonight I remembered why this was familiar.

Mike Mentzer. His high intensity training. It is similar to Dorians but possibly higher intensity. I mean 1 set to failure. 2-3 days a week maybe. I was blind for so long I didn't think that would work at all. But can it? It did with Mike ( the only person ever to receive a perfect score of 300 in an Olympia) didn't it?

Do any of you have any thoughts on Mike and his training? Has anyone used his philosophy? Did it work. Did Dorian borrow from Mike or vise versa?

Here is some thing Mike wrote : It should be understood also that genetic endowment is the prime determinant of bodybuilding success. Arnold and Lee, not to mention myself, Dorian Yates and all who have achieved extraordinary levels of muscular development, possess an abundance of the requisite genetic traits, including long muscle bellies, greater than average muscle fiber density, and superior recovery ability.

The best way, therefore, to compare the efficacy of the two training approaches is to examine the results obtained by a genetically superior practitioner from each camp. On May 1, 1973, Casey Viator entered into an experiment -- conducted at Colorado State University in Fort Collins -- for the purpose of discovering how much muscle he would gain on a high-intensity training program in one month.


Casey trained only three times a week, with each workout lasting no more than 30 minutes. Since the duration of the experiment was a month, this meant that Casey trained 12 times, for a total of only six hours. The result was that Casey went from a starting bodyweight of 166 pounds to his previous highest bodyweight, in top muscular condition, of 212 pounds. The exercise physiologist who conducted the experiment, Dr. Eliot Plese, discovered (using a sophisticated radioisotope assay machine) that Casey lost 17 pounds of fat during that month. Casey's actual lean body-mass gain, therefore, was not merely the 46 pounds as evidenced on the scale, but a whopping 63 pounds -- and all from only six hours of training!



Casey Viator, one of the greatest bodybuilders ever and the man who introduced Mike Mentzer to Arthur Jones.
Now contrast Casey's achievement with what Arnold Schwarzenegger did to prepare for the 1975 Mr. Olympia contest. Arnold has gone to considerable lengths advertising the fact that, starting in July of that year, he trained twice a day for two hours each session, or four hours a day, six days a week, right up to the contest date in November. As a result of training that totalled 288 hours, Arnold put on approximately 25 pounds of lean mass, going from his starting weight of 200 pounds to 225. It is interesting to note that Arnold, in gaining back only 25 pounds of muscle, failed, in that four-month period, to reach his previous best muscular bodyweight of 237 pounds.
Not only are Casey and Arnold genetically gifted, both were also regaining muscle mass, which happens more readily than gaining it in the first place. And since both were taking steroids during these periods of training, one is left to conclude that the factor accounting for Casey's vastly superior achievement was his use of high-intensity training principles. (When I asked Arnold, in 1979, why he had failed to attain the same 237 pounds for the 1975 Mr. Olympia that he competed at in the 1974 Mr. Olympia, he responded by saying that the four months he had to prepare wasn't enough time.)


To those who question the validity of the abbreviated high-intensity training approach, by noting the numerical superiority of those utilizing the "more is better" volume approach, I need only point out that statistical generalizations do not constitute valid proof in matters open to individual choice. A good historical example is that for thousands of years millions of people sincerely believed that the earth was flat, but that didn't make it so.


A mistake made by many muscle magazine readers is to assume that the routines currently ascribed to the top champs are of the same variety they've always used. In most cases, the champs started their bodybuilding careers, and developed the bulk of their muscle mass, with abbreviated routines performed two to three times a week, using basic exercises and heavy weights. As they progressed into the competitive ranks, they made the mistake -- as I did for a while -- of increasing the number of sets along with the number of workouts per week, which explains why many stagnate and even retrogress. Increasing the duration and frequency of their workouts was done in conjunction with the use of steroids, which help to prevent, or at least reduce, the loss of muscle mass that otherwise results from chronic marathon training.


Considering the fact that the self-proclaimed experts have neither provided a consistent, rational theory of training, nor addressed the issues raised here, it is little wonder that so many cynical bodybuilders remain painfully bewildered.


About 20 years ago I found myself in a situation similar to that experienced by many of the aspiring bodybuilders I now communicate with on a daily basis. I avidly read all the muscle magazines, and had memorized the training routines, dietary regimens, and even the personal habits of all the top champs. Following their lead, I utilized the "more is better" principle, performing up to 30 sets per bodypart, training three hours a day, six days a week. After months of training in this fashion with no progress, my motivation waned so much I began thinking seriously about ceasing my training efforts altogether. I reasoned that if training three hours a day wasn't sufficient to cause an increase in my muscle mass, then perhaps I would have to up my training to four hours a day. And it was difficult to justify spending even more time in the gym every day, as I was already tired from my 12-hour work days in the Air Force and the three-hour daily workouts. If developing a championship physique meant giving up all social life and spending one-fourth of my waking hours in some dank gymnasium, it just wasn't worth it.

[almostgone]

Standing EZ curl -2w/u Work- 6-3-1
Incline d'bell curl -2 w/u. Work-6-4-2.5
Concentration curls 2 w/u. Work-5-1-3 negatives
Seated hammer curl 2 w/u Work -3-1.5
Triceps press down 2w/u Work-6-3-3
Close grip Smith press 2 w/u Work-6-3-1.5
EZ curl incline skullcrusher- 1 w/u Work-6-2
Kickbacks Work-3-drop-2

Had some aggression to displace. Decent lift today!

[scotty51312]

Today was leg day. I've started doing a reverse pyramid squat routine.
Squat warm up 20reps@135

8 reps 305
10 reps 295
10 reps 285
10 reps 245
10 reps 225
10 reps 185
all done with 60-90 seconds rest
Then BB lunges, 3 sets 10 each side
Finshed with a superset of extensions and curls

After i was finished today I fell down the stairs after cardio and tried to pop back up before anyone saw it. Ofcorse the hottest chick in the gym was standing right there

[almostgone]

Today was leg day. I've started doing a reverse pyramid squat routine.
Squat warm up 20reps@135

8 reps 305
10 reps 295
10 reps 285
10 reps 245
10 reps 225
10 reps 185
all done with 60-90 seconds rest
Then BB lunges, 3 sets 10 each side
Finshed with a superset of extensions and curls

After i was finished today I fell down the stairs after cardio and tried to pop back up before anyone saw it. Ofcorse the hottest chick in the gym was standing right there

Wowwww..impressive.amount of leg work, Scotty!! Is this something you periodically incorporate?

[Dpyle]

Just finished chest and I'm gonna be useless the rest of the day.

Incline DB press/ fly superset: 1 feel set 2 working

Decline cable press/ fly: 1 feel 2 working

Hammer strength press: 1 working w RP

2 quick working sets to finish pumping tris

Rope push downs with 1 drop
Reverse grip straight bar push downs w 1 drop

Only took 45 min including changing times.

[Capebuffalo]

Db presses 1 warm 2 work
Smith machine press 1 working
Db raises side then front 2 working
Reverse pec deck 2 working

Less than 20 min

[Capebuffalo]

Found the answer to one of my above questions

To understand Mike Mentzer you have to understand bodybuilding in the ’70s. physique champs typically worked out twice daily and trained body parts thrice weekly with 20 or more sets each session. Mentzer called this madness, claiming there was too much endurance-style toil and not enough growth-stimulating sets or rest. He adopted the high-intensity beliefs of Arthur Jones in formulating his own philosophy: Heavy Duty.

His recipe was low-rep sets pushed to failure and beyond in brief and infrequent workouts. Mentzer’s competitive career was as intense and abbreviated as his routines. He won the Mr. America at 24, but after a controversial fifth at the 1980 Mr. Olympia he retired at 28. Still, the iconoclast espoused Heavy Duty until his death in 2001, and his tenets—adopted by six-time Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates—continue to impact training routines.

Heavy Duty Tip Sheet

- Sets need to be pushed to absolute failure or beyond, and such sets must be kept to a minimum.

- To propel sets beyond full-rep failure, have one or more partners assist on forced reps.

- Emphasize the eccentric halves of reps as much as the positive halves.

- To maximize recovery, workouts should be brief and infrequent.

- If you don’t have a partner to assist on forced reps, do rest-pause reps once you reach failure in
a set. Rest for 10–15 seconds and then get one rep. Do this two or three times.

[AD]

Db presses 1 warm 2 work
Smith machine press 1 working
Db raises side then front 2 working
Reverse pec deck 2 working

Less than 20 min

hey cape, since we are as old as each other , got a question for you. what do you think is effective warm-up? listed above, sounds like you warm up with one set and the went heavy immediately.

personal experience, while on my last cycle, on a chest day, i started with maybe 2-3 warm-up sets, and went heavy. immediately felt a sharp pain in my right pec, but kept on going, thinking that it's "good" pain. kept pushing throughout the whole session. and later that day, the pain got so bad that i couldn't take a deep breath without feeling severe pain. took me almost 2 months to recover from that one.

nowadays, i warmup with more than 5 sets. close to 7-8 sets actually.

[Capebuffalo]

hey cape, since we are as old as each other , got a question for you. what do you think is effective warm-up? listed above, sounds like you warm up with one set and the went heavy immediately.

personal experience, while on my last cycle, on a chest day, i started with maybe 2-3 warm-up sets, and went heavy. immediately felt a sharp pain in my right pec, but kept on going, thinking that it's "good" pain. kept pushing throughout the whole session. and later that day, the pain got so bad that i couldn't take a deep breath without feeling severe pain. took me almost 2 months to recover from that one.

nowadays, i warmup with more than 5 sets. close to 7-8 sets actually.

It depends on how the warm up feels. If it's good I move on if not I will do more. My warm up usually starts no less than 20 lbs lighter than what my working weight will be.

[AD]

It depends on how the warm up feels. If it's good I move on if not I will do more. My warm up usually starts no less than 20 lbs lighter than what my working weight will be.

wow, thats pretty heavy. like a feel set. i am so afraid of more injuries nowadays, i start with only half the weight. small increment on each warmup set. guess that makes me older that you

[kelkel]

Do whatever you have to do to feel warmed up. If your not and you enter your working set wondering if you're ready, how productive do you think it will be?
It's also body part dependent. Meaning legs will usually take much more of a warm-up than smaller body parts like biceps. The more weight you move on an exercise the more warm ups it usually requires.

[Capebuffalo]

wow, thats pretty heavy. like a feel set. i am so afraid of more injuries nowadays, i start with only half the weight. small increment on each warmup set. guess that makes me older that you

Just smarter than me.

[Capebuffalo]

I'd love your thoughts on Mentzer Kel.

[kelkel]

I'd love your thoughts on Mentzer Kel.

I've told the story before here but I actually met them both back in the day. Cool stuff.

[Capebuffalo]

I've told the story before here but I actually met them both back in the day. Cool stuff.

Wow.

[kelkel]

Wow.

Just means I'm old.....er....

[Dpyle]

Db presses 1 warm 2 work
Smith machine press 1 working
Db raises side then front 2 working
Reverse pec deck 2 working

Less than 20 min

Damn cape did you even break between sets!?

[Capebuffalo]

Damn cape did you even break between sets!?

A little bit. Lol

[scotty51312]

Wowwww..impressive.amount of leg work, Scotty!! Is this something you periodically incorporate?

To be honest I'm definitely not a fan of volume workouts. I've just kinda hit a wall lately, Most of the time I do legs its 5-6 sets of two exercises. Squats, Then either deads (depending on when back day is), lunges or maybe even hacks.

[Capebuffalo]

Can you guess who these guys are?



Damn

[Cuz]

Can you guess who these guys are?



Damn

Well Marcus is on the left haha...I posted that pic in here several months ago lol. It was a back day

[scotty51312]

Ronnie and Arnold

[Capebuffalo]

Ronnie and Arnold

Ding ding. We have a winner

[kelkel]

Did legs yesterday. Usual stuff:

Extensions
Vertical press
Squats
Seated leg curls
Calf crap.

ZERO knee pain. I kept waiting and waiting for it and it didn't show up. Dammit that was nice.

[Cuz]

Did legs yesterday. Usual stuff:

Extensions
Vertical press
Squats
Seated leg curls
Calf crap.

ZERO knee pain. I kept waiting and waiting for it and it didn't show up. Dammit that was nice.

Good to hear Kel.

[Capebuffalo]

Did legs yesterday. Usual stuff:

Extensions
Vertical press
Squats
Seated leg curls
Calf crap.

ZERO knee pain. I kept waiting and waiting for it and it didn't show up. Dammit that was nice.

If I can sneek away I've got legs today. And will give me 5 days training this week. Yeah me.

Good news on the knee Kel