**Marcus's HIT Dungeon**

[DCI]

Chest was crazy heavy, my chest and tris had the craziest pump ever was bursting. Did crazy cardio today aswell

So heavy nearly got sick

[kelkel]

So what did you do DCI?

[DCI]

Bb heaviest weight HIT training.

Started off with 3 warm up sets progressively increasing weight and reps got a great pump and then went deep into it.

Started with incline bb press with 50kg db's for all 3 sets then 2 drop sets to forced reps and negs.

Same as above but flat and same as decline. Then onto heavyweight db flies and to destroy myself deep push ups as the pulley machine was occupied by an ape doing bicep curls for 49 million reps so just did push ups instead.

Then onto the bike for 20 mins hard cardio felt great after it. Serious pump and vascularity which is something only new to me cos was/am compared to yourself and marcus a fat bastard so really loving the lowering of bf and the increase in strength I never did 50kg on incline and dekline before

[kelkel]

Outstanding DCI. Remember a warm up set is just a warm up. If you're getting so pumped prior to your working sets then you may want to cut the reps back a bit and save that energy for your working sets. Glad the vascularity is coming for you as well as strength. Use it as a motivator to keep it going! Slowly work toward cutting those sets back a little by going further into "your" pain zone.

[marcus300]

Over the last few weeks ive had some pm's from guys asking questions regarding this thread and how myself and Kel train. It is fine to ask these questions on this thread so all the others benefit from the answers but there is one thing I must stress about the way we train. This type of training method is for the advanced bodybuilder ONLY and not a newbie who is just starting out. You need to have been training for at least a couple of years before implementing this types of extreme protocols to stimulate growth. The first 18-24 months of training your going to grow anyway due to simple overload on your system there is no need to go advanced when your growing and when you first start out you will be growing.

Going to failure is really hard to do many think they go to failure but in all honesty they don't they just go to were that little voice in their heads says " this is heavy and hurts now lets stop". It takes time and a lot of effort to learn going to true failure and even more effort going beyond. So take your time to understand how your body receives pain and how you can train yourself to these limits to stimulate growth.

Remember on your working set you go to true failure, then you take yourself past this by implementing either forced reps then negatives, or dropsets and on each drop to complete failure, or rest pause and again on each RP to total failure. This will recruit every muscle fibre possible and put your body under serious over load to start off the growth process. This working set is done once! if you can do more than one working set in this fashion your not going to true failure, remember that because I am listening to guys who are doing 3 working sets who say they are going to failure and beyond on each of the working sets and using dropsets, rest pause aswell, which if done correctly is impossible. The one working set to true failure and beyond is done and fully worked, after you have done one working set to true failure and use beyond failure protocols there is nothing more you can do to that part of the muscle, its time to move onto another movement.



Don't let that voice in your head say your at failure and the set is over, that voice is a weak fuker. Get the adrenalin flowing and think of things what really get your fire in your belly going and go to true failure were its completely impossible to do another rep even if I had a gun to your head, now that's failure and now its time to go beyond failure which is whole new ball game in itself....

[Doom44]

Have an awesome legs workout. Hard to walk now. Lol

[DCI]

Outstanding DCI. Remember a warm up set is just a warm up. If you're getting so pumped prior to your working sets then you may want to cut the reps back a bit and save that energy for your working sets. Glad the vascularity is coming for you as well as strength. Use it as a motivator to keep it going! Slowly work toward cutting those sets back a little by going further into "your" pain zone.

Thanks kel lots of great advice there I'll try the lowee warm up sets and see if I have more strength.

Lowering my bf is the hardest part of the whole deal but I know that this is a very slow process but I am getting better thankfully. Tonight is back can't wait

[DCI]

Should have stated the drop sets and negs were for the last set as that is to failure. Normally what we do is fail then do as many forced reps as possible then drop to say 25kg db then do to failure then negs, then drop again to something light like 15kg and repeat

[marcus300]

Thanks kel lots of great advice there I'll try the lowee warm up sets and see if I have more strength.

Lowering my bf is the hardest part of the whole deal but I know that this is a very slow process but I am getting better thankfully. Tonight is back can't wait

If your bf is not increasing or decreasing then the first thing you need to do is increase your cardio to create a calorie deficit, your bf will start to drop off and after a while your body will adapt to this increased cardio and the gains will get slower and slower, then its time to decrease your cals from your TDEE by around 300-500 and carb cycle. Keep on the cardio and keep carb cycling at 300-500 less than your TDEE. Again your body will adapt and things will slow down so a further decrease in cals to suit your new body weight will be needed and also you can start playing around with the timing of your carbs, either pre and post workout or have all your carbs in the morning and mid afternoon and no more until the next morning. Its all about learning how your body will tap into its fat cells for fuel while preserving muscle tissue, with burning bf nothing is static you need to adjust things daily if need be and once you have come to a brick wall with calorie manipulation via carb cycling, calorie timing and cardio then its time to start looking at some compounds what will give you the edge to burn more bf..

[marcus300]

Should have stated the drop sets and negs were for the last set as that is to failure. Normally what we do is fail then do as many forced reps as possible then drop to say 25kg db then do to failure then negs, then drop again to something light like 15kg and repeat

I struggle to understand what you really mean mate but in this thread ive written a full workout and there are many workouts what ive explained showing the process of working sets to failure and beyond. Hope it helps if you need further assistance jst let me know and I will write it out in simple terms so you fully understand. But from your progress pics your doing something right for sure

[DCI]

Thanks marcus, yep I am begining to think its time to carb cycle. I havent stopped loosing bf its just slowed up is all. I will start it soon just need to ween myself into it. Just get my head round it.


I know you have sorry for coming across as confusing. This is the method you posted ages ago when I first tried the hit training that you posted. So 3 sets in for 6-8 reps then 4-6 reps and then failure. After failure set i drop weight with a combo of failure then have my buddy help me with forced positives then slow negatives then drop weight again repeat.

I know it's not exactly the same but its 90% the same as you posted my body is responding to it thankfully.

But if you think that the above is wrong let me know and I'll change as to be honest if it wasn't for yourself I'd still be a big chap but with too mich bf

[marcus300]

Listen to what Kai says at 9.40 onwards regarding failure

[marcus300]

Thanks marcus, yep I am begining to think its time to carb cycle. I havent stopped loosing bf its just slowed up is all. I will start it soon just need to ween myself into it. Just get my head round it.


I know you have sorry for coming across as confusing. This is the method you posted ages ago when I first tried the hit training that you posted. So 3 sets in for 6-8 reps then 4-6 reps and then failure. After failure set i drop weight with a combo of failure then have my buddy help me with forced positives then slow negatives then drop weight again repeat.

I know it's not exactly the same but its 90% the same as you posted my body is responding to it thankfully.

But if you think that the above is wrong let me know and I'll change as to be honest if it wasn't for yourself I'd still be a big chap but with too mich bf

I have the same approach to training as Dorian which is HIT style training.One all out set which takes you to failure and beyond what will stimulate the most muscle growth. My style slightly changes if I don't have a training partner so other intensity protocols are used rather than one all out set which involves a partner helping you with forced and negatives. If I do have a partner to train with I will use the one working set approach which involves taking the set to muscular failure using a weight which would target around 6-8 reps at the most, once I hit failure I will do 2 forced reps with the help of my partner, this will take me to complete concentric muscle failure then with the same weight I will do a further 2-3 reps of negatives. Once I hit negative failure and another rep is impossible I would of overloaded and recruited a huge amount of muscle fibres which in turn will stimulate muscle tissue growth like no other.

If I don't have a training partner I will use methods such as drop sets and rest pause, obviously I do change things around sometimes but those are my basic training principles I stick to when building and maintaining muscle tissue. When I use dropsets I drop the weight immediately with the least amount of rest in-between drops so I thoroughly burn and take the muscle to complete failure. When I add in rest pause I do a set to failure and rest for 5-10 seconds then do a few more reps with the same weight, I will rest pause a few times within that working set to complete muscle failure. If I feel I can add a further set because I felt like I was holding back or I still feel another set is in there I will do another working set. I do have variations to each of these training protocols and it depends on the day how I change things around but that should give you an idea how I grow, build and maintain tissue.

Looking at the both types of training methods I do prefer training with a partner and doing one working set to complete failure and beyond. What I mean by beyond is the negative parts of the working set. Negatives done at this stage of a working set after muscle failure on the lifting part causes serious trauma to the muscle which will stimulate the release of growth factors to start the muscle tissue growth process. Your also 40% stronger on the eccentric part of the lift so once you hit failure in the lifting part of the exercise by yourself and adding forced with your partner the negatives will take you beyond and recruit further fibres like nothing I've experienced with any other training routine. Once this as been hit there is no need to do anything else because the damage has occurred and no more can be recruited only burn out...So short intense training sessions what recruit and stimulate the most muscle fibres is the way forward to building huge size and also maintaining muscle tissue.

[marcus300]

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to find the right training protocol for your body to grow. You have to try many training routines and find which one you respond best to. We also need to get in the right mind set when we walk in that gym, you going there for one purpose and if you don't push your body beyond what its capable of doing your not going to grow bigger. You want to be leaving that gym feeling like you just done 10 rounds with Tyson in his hay day. You have to go through the pain, you have to push and pull the hardest you have ever done before, you have to push your body to places where its never been before and push past the pain every single time you go in the gym.

Overload your body to a state were its screaming for you to stop and no matter what you couldn't do one more rep even if your life depended on it, if you don't train in this fashion your not training hard enough. Do you want to be bigger than anyone else, do you want to turn heads and do you want to have that monster size what no one else has got then if this is the case stop *****ing around in the gym and stop going through the motions and push past your limits and use methods what take you to hell and back.

I train that hard my eye balls shake and I find it hard to focus, I mentally prepare myself and think of things what make me angry and I push that last rep out no matter what. I kind of like the pain in certain bodyparts and I can push past it into a world of total hell, I feel like I am on fire and I swear I can feel the blood surging through my veins into the muscle what I am working. When I've done my last working set I know I cant perform another rep even if someone had a gun to my head and said you'll die if you don't do another rep, I know I've come to my limit and the sick thing about this is I actually enjoy it., I dream about it, I think about it and I cant wait to get back in the gym to do it again. Its like I'm self harming because the torture I go through is extremely painful but I know this is what I have to do to maintain what I've got and to build those extra few lbs of tissue. This is what separates the normal guys who look like they go to the gym to the fuking monsters what walk this earth

Now are you training hard enough? ask yourself can you train harder because if the answer is yes your restricting your gains and wasting money and time. Why spend all that money on gear, gh and food when your not attacking your body like you should be. Think about it and make your next workout like your going to war with yourself.

[DCI]

Two truly epic posts there man. Maybe I miss understood you from the first post but this training is really making my bodyb respond in a manner I have never seen remember I have only been doing this for 6 months well this style of training.

Last night 2 of us did all the above in 45 mins, then cardio after to me that is very quick and intense works out at 7 and a half mins each per excersise by the end of it I was close to gettong sick which is somethomg I have never before this new routine so I am constantly pushing it. Also I have started to concentrate more of the mental focus side of it which you have said before but I am now doing that and it is amazing how much of a difference does to your training.

Last set of decline pressing I was hyped up and managed 6 reps then forced by the spotter then drops was crazy when i got up from the bench had a major head rush

[Zodiac82]

Out of all of those what is your weakest body part? You know where I'm going with this?

Kel if my bis are a weak point....and I work back/bis.... I see where u said to hit the weaker muscle first....would that still be "wise" to do being my back bein the bigger muscle group? or would that actually workout better because it'll force me to use my back more than using the secondary muscle group?

-Beast Mode-

[kelkel]

Personally I was never a fan of Bi's following back. Yes, I know bi's are heavily involved in back work and the logic is they are warm and you can get by with less work, yadda, yadda. I always felt like I was short-changing them that way. That said, only you can assess whether that style works for you and if you can still give them 110% effort. A thought may be to restructure your workout if you have doubts. I would not train bi's first prior to back work. To me that would be similar to training triceps prior to chest.

[Hazard]

Personally I was never a fan of Bi's following back. Yes, I know bi's are heavily involved in back work and the logic is they are warm and you can get by with less work, yadda, yadda. I always felt like I was short-changing them that way. That said, only you can assess whether that style works for you and if you can still give them 110% effort. A thought may be to restructure your workout if you have doubts. I would not train bi's first prior to back work. To me that would be similar to training triceps prior to chest.

It didn't take me long to figure out that it didn't feel right. When I stopped training bis with back and tris with Chest my arms blew up.

[kelkel]

Over the last few weeks ive had some pm's from guys asking questions regarding this thread and how myself and Kel train. It is fine to ask these questions on this thread so all the others benefit from the answers but there is one thing I must stress about the way we train. This type of training method is for the advanced bodybuilder ONLY and not a newbie who is just starting out. You need to have been training for at least a couple of years before implementing this types of extreme protocols to stimulate growth. The first 18-24 months of training your going to grow anyway due to simple overload on your system there is no need to go advanced when your growing and when you first start out you will be growing.

Going to failure is really hard to do many think they go to failure but in all honesty they don't they just go to were that little voice in their heads says " this is heavy and hurts now lets stop". It takes time and a lot of effort to learn going to true failure and even more effort going beyond. So take your time to understand how your body receives pain and how you can train yourself to these limits to stimulate growth.

Remember on your working set you go to true failure, then you take yourself past this by implementing either forced reps then negatives, or dropsets and on each drop to complete failure, or rest pause and again on each RP to total failure. This will recruit every muscle fibre possible and put your body under serious over load to start off the growth process. This working set is done once! if you can do more than one working set in this fashion your not going to true failure, remember that because I am listening to guys who are doing 3 working sets who say they are going to failure and beyond on each of the working sets and using dropsets, rest pause aswell, which if done correctly is impossible. The one working set to true failure and beyond is done and fully worked, after you have done one working set to true failure and use beyond failure protocols there is nothing more you can do to that part of the muscle, its time to move onto another movement.



Don't let that voice in your head say your at failure and the set is over, that voice is a weak fuker. Get the adrenalin flowing and think of things what really get your fire in your belly going and go to true failure were its completely impossible to do another rep even if I had a gun to your head, now that's failure and now its time to go beyond failure which is whole new ball game in itself....

Love that line and it's so damn true. We all have that voice in our head. You just have to learn how to ignore that "weak fuker."

[Back In Black]

Marcus, do you prefer training with a partner or do you like the variety that going solo gives you?

Kel, I know you mentioned earlier your old training partners but if you could get a new one with the same drive and philosophy, you'd prefer to have a partner?

[kelkel]

Marcus, do you prefer training with a partner or do you like the variety that going solo gives you?

Kel, I know you mentioned earlier your old training partners but if you could get a new one with the same drive and philosophy, you'd prefer to have a partner?

Wow. It would be great to train with the big man to see if my old ass could keep up. I know we're similarly disciplined. It's been probably a dozen years since I've had a partner and I'm pretty set in my ways now. I have not lifted in a commercial gym in almost 10 years. Maybe if he (a partner) came to my house and didn't talk much cause my Ipod is thumping and there would be little to no conversation. It would be nice to get pushed every now and then in a competitive way by someone of similar strength and discipline. That said, one of the best partners I had was a guy I would never consider a bodybuilder. He was more of a smaller power lifter (181) who wanted to learn "bodybuilding" a bit. We had a great run and are friends to this day. One of my closest actually.

To continue on a power lifting note. One of the first gyms I trained at was all power lifters. I was the only bodybuilder there. I learned so much from those guys and how both styles of training help the other. IMHO, one of the best things a newer body builder can do is to train like a power lifter for a while and focus on the basic lifts: squat, bench and deadlifts. It helps to build your core strength which dominoes favorably toward building muscle. On top of that it's damn fun and there's a lot of camaraderie in that sport, especially when training for a meet.

Rant over.

[marcus300]

Marcus, do you prefer training with a partner or do you like the variety that going solo gives you?

Kel, I know you mentioned earlier your old training partners but if you could get a new one with the same drive and philosophy, you'd prefer to have a partner?

I love training with partners who are in the same mental state as myself, one of the reason is I adore forced and negative training. My body explodes when doing these and I think the reason being is there is no rest what so ever, at total positive failure you get your partner to assist another 2 reps then you positive strength as gone completely and then the partner helps you with 2 negatives, doing this correctly really fuks me up big time and stimulates growth. But when I don't have a partner I still love the dropsetting or rest pause all I have to do is get my mind set right and I'm in my fighting zone to attack my body.

If I had to pick one way, it would be training with a partner.

[--->>405<<---]

marcus obviously negs are out when training solo. what do u recommend then? dropsets to positive failure??

[Back In Black]

Interesting you mention power lifters Kel, my last gym was owned by 2 brothers, both power lifters. Not your typical looking power lifters, both drug free and one a world champion a couple of years ago. Great techniques and extremely methodical. For them, it's not just about shifting ALOT of weight but their technique has to great for favourable leverages etc. I learned some stuff but wish I'd learned more. Funnily enough though, I didn't really progress much, I trained the same time as them and spent most my time watching them rather than focusing on what I was doing lol.

[Back In Black]

I love training with partners who are in the same mental state as myself, one of the reason is I adore forced and negative training. My body explodes when doing these and I think the reason being is there is no rest what so ever, at total positive failure you get your partner to assist another 2 reps then you positive strength as gone completely and then the partner helps you with 2 negatives, doing this correctly really fuks me up big time and stimulates growth. But when I don't have a partner I still love the dropsetting or rest pause all I have to do is get my mind set right and I'm in my fighting zone to attack my body.

If I had to pick one way, it would be training with a partner.

Yeah, I'm on the lookout for a partner but nobody trains anything other than volume where I lift and I don't suspect I will be able to convince them otherwise. At least. Not until I'm much bigger by the end of the year and they want to know the secret

[Zodiac82]

Personally I was never a fan of Bi's following back. Yes, I know bi's are heavily involved in back work and the logic is they are warm and you can get by with less work, yadda, yadda. I always felt like I was short-changing them that way. That said, only you can assess whether that style works for you and if you can still give them 110% effort. A thought may be to restructure your workout if you have doubts. I would not train bi's first prior to back work. To me that would be similar to training triceps prior to chest.

It didn't take me long to figure out that it didn't feel right. When I stopped training bis with back and tris with Chest my arms blew up.

yeh it sucks because I've just switched from antagonist groups....so it doesnt leave too much room for another split....maybe chest/bis and back/tris?? but I also wanted to start a delt/tris split....ughghugggh I hate when I start to overthink stuff

-Beast Mode-

[Zodiac82]

during that storm we were getting multiple lighting strikes (5-6) virtually in the same spot ever so often....I couldn't get it on my phone

-Beast Mode-

[marcus300]

marcus obviously negs are out when training solo. what do u recommend then? dropsets to positive failure??

When I don't have a partner I implement dropsets and on each drop I take myself to positive failure until I cant do another rep, sometime even half reps, then I will drop again until failure once again. Or I will implement rest pause were I taking my working set to true failure then rest for 10 secs and rep again until true failure, then rest again and rep away until failure right down to around 1-2 reps on the RP. These methods take you beyond failure and you don't need a partner but for forced reps and negs you need a very good partner to understand how much weight to help you with until you come to positive failure.

[DCI]

Back tonight going in 5 mins will report back later

[Zodiac82]

during that storm we were getting multiple lighting strikes (5-6) virtually in the same spot ever so often....I couldn't get it on my phone

-Beast Mode-

wuuups....this was suppoesed to go in your photo thread Marcus

-Beast Mode-

[marcus300]

This week so far ive trained

delts & abs
back
legs

all three were great workouts, pushed my limits and trained fast to keep the intensity, been a little down on the cardio and eating loads, my body is telling me to eat so I sure am eating. Hitting around 8 meals a day plus cheating at the weekends. Fat gain as been minimal but strength and size increases have been visual each week. not as shape as I usually am but size wise i'm big and feel like I am building muscle. Not been on the scales but my guess is I am around 255 ish or maybe more.

Injuries - slight shoulder injury, crunches when pressing ( I know its old fuking age)

lower back pain has gone, the low dose deca as really kicked in and no issues what so ever. I struggle doing squats but blasted a few plates easy last night without any pains.

Over all I am going more thick set, muscle bellies are getting fuller and wider. I am close to going on cycle just deciding what to do either hit it big or just go for maintenance.

Body improvements - my back width and thickness as come on more than anything since ive been focusing on the weak parts of it

calves are improving each week, but going through a lot of pain to get some decent size on them.

arms - don't stop growing, short heavy bursts beyo9nd failure and they just grow and explode

resting for a couple of days unless things change and they probably will

[DCI]

Holy shit, that is great to hear esp the injuries that are healing. Amazing that you can get crazy gains man esp at your size already means we all can do it no problem pnce we focus and as you have said lots of times learn your body and how it reacts

[kelkel]

This week so far ive trained

delts & abs
back
legs

all three were great workouts, pushed my limits and trained fast to keep the intensity, been a little down on the cardio and eating loads, my body is telling me to eat so I sure am eating. Hitting around 8 meals a day plus cheating at the weekends. Fat gain as been minimal but strength and size increases have been visual each week. not as shape as I usually am but size wise i'm big and feel like I am building muscle. Not been on the scales but my guess is I am around 255 ish or maybe more.

Injuries - slight shoulder injury, crunches when pressing ( I know its old fuking age)

lower back pain has gone, the low dose deca as really kicked in and no issues what so ever. I struggle doing squats but blasted a few plates easy last night without any pains.

Over all I am going more thick set, muscle bellies are getting fuller and wider. I am close to going on cycle just deciding what to do either hit it big or just go for maintenance.

Body improvements - my back width and thickness as come on more than anything since ive been focusing on the weak parts of it

calves are improving each week, but going through a lot of pain to get some decent size on them.

arms - don't stop growing, short heavy bursts beyo9nd failure and they just grow and explode

resting for a couple of days unless things change and they probably will

Yeah ok. Who you trying to kid here?

[marcus300]

Yeah ok. Who you trying to kid here?

Its true took me 2 years to work on certain areas of my back.


Anyway did train today, all I did was eat,drink and sleep all day. Not even been out of the house lol did some stuff online and that's it. good old rest day

Whats it like State side on this special day guys?

[Euroholic]

How often do you do traps mate?

[marcus300]

How often do you do traps mate?

Once every 5-7 days.

[Euroholic]

Once every 5-7 days.

Just shrugs? Barbell or db?what about Farmers walk?

[marcus300]

Just shrugs? Barbell or db?what about Farmers walk?

BB shrugs mostly, never done farmers walk. Its the more the way I train what gets results than the exact movement. I train to failure and I mean true failure then I use methods to go beyond failure, this is were most fail. Trapezius is a very large muscle what is tough so it needs attacking to really stimulate growth.

[Euroholic]

BB shrugs mostly, never done farmers walk. Its the more the way I train what gets results than the exact movement. I train to failure and I mean true failure then I use methods to go beyond failure, this is were most fail. Trapezius is a very large muscle what is tough so it needs attacking to really stimulate growth.

The way you talk about faliure You sound just like dorian. You dont no him do you?

[marcus300]

The way you talk about faliure You sound just like dorian. You dont no him do you?

No I don't know him