**Marcus's HIT Dungeon**

[marcus300]

Out of curiosity marcus.

Do or did they check ck levels. Very curious on what urs are especially with kidney function

I'm under two doctors and that will be my other BW which I didn't get the numbers for. Not sure what they checked last I just got aa message regarding my PSA and Test and some other health issues they are looking into.

[marcus300]

Guys, My RC issue isn't getting any better which I know it wont but I wont have surgery because of the time out of the gym and also the chance of a full recovery are slim.

Whats happening now is my range of motion is getting less but I am stretching it and rolling everything out along with all the internet and external rotation exercise's for my cuff's. The thing is ive been experimenting with the pain aspect which is mainly on chest and shoulder press. What really sets me back with pain and soreness is the doing proper form and doing a proper range "my groove" so to speak. But what ive done over the last few session is limit my range and stop just short of were the pain starts and my cuff starts to cause me issues, once it starts its more or less game over.

Now I have 3 thoughts on this matter

1, stop doing the pressing movements and do plenty of other movements to try and stimulate the muscle
positive would be no pain -negative would be for me is muscle will disappear which will cause me serious head fuk

2, Try doing the pressing movements but with a short range of motion but dig deep into my intensity to bring out enough stress to stimulate the muscle or at least maintain. positive = no pain and hopefully stress the muscle to grow, negative= range of motion will get less and less and this will be my new groove.

3, Stick with what I am doing and keep stretching it and doing my pressing and go lighter when the pain starts


What are your thoughts guys?

I know what I want to do but would like to hear your thoughts

[NACH3]

I'm under two doctors and that will be my other BW which I didn't get the numbers for. Not sure what they checked last I just got aa message regarding my PSA and Test and some other health issues they are looking into.

Hey Big Man so glad to see and read your labs etc

BLAST OFF!

[Proximal]

Marcus, if you don't mind please - how old are you? Also can you get an MRI scheduled?

[marcus300]

Marcus, if you don't mind please - how old are you? Also can you get an MRI scheduled?

I am 49 this week ;(

Ive torn my RC it needs surgery, ive not got to involved because ive known this for a few years now. Ive not had a MRI and don't want to at this stage due to all the medical issues and appointments I am having, also the end result is they will want to operate and I wont have it done.

Any thoughts Prox

[marcus300]

Hey Big Man so glad to see and read your labs etc

BLAST OFF!

I wont be cycling I am still having BW done all the way up to Xmas with my haematologist, so once that's all sorted I will try a very small cycle

[NACH3]

Guys, My RC issue isn't getting any better which I know it wont but I wont have surgery because of the time out of the gym and also the chance of a full recovery are slim.

No surgery - PT and take it from someone whose gotten 3 and needs a reverse replacement!!

Whats happening now is my range of motion is getting less but I am stretching it and rolling everything out along with all the internet and external rotation exercise's for my cuff's. The thing is ive been experimenting with the pain aspect which is mainly on chest and shoulder press. What really sets me back with pain and soreness is the doing proper form and doing a proper range "my groove" so to speak. But what ive done over the last few session is limit my range and stop just short of were the pain starts and my cuff starts to cause me issues, once it starts its more or less game over.

Your strong minded Marcus - I can guarantee if you get in w/a Chiro(advanced Kinesiology degree) and put in more DTM work scraping look into Graston Technique etc laser treatment to break up scar tissue!

Now I have 3 thoughts on this matter

1, stop doing the pressing movements and do plenty of other movements to try and stimulate the muscle
positive would be no pain -negative would be for me is muscle will disappear which will cause me serious head fuk



2, Try doing the pressing movements but with a short range of motion but dig deep into my intensity to bring out enough stress to stimulate the muscle or at least maintain. positive = no pain and hopefully stress the muscle to grow, negative= range of motion will get less and less and this will be my new groove.

Heres the ticket ticket imho! I'm trying the same bug concentrating on 3/4 reps high intensity very short rest periods and.... Ever think of traps and tris next day for accessory work like bis/& forearms?!?!

3, Stick with what I am doing and keep stretching it and doing my pressing and go lighter when the pain starts

We're In pain daily and it's a mind Fvk from the get go! Let's figure this out as we both struggle very hard with delts and pressing now... Whatcha think?! Want to try and collaborate and see what works - we both respond much a like!

What are your thoughts guys?

I know what I want to do but would like to hear your thoughts

....

[Sfla80]

Guys, My RC issue isn't getting any better which I know it wont but I wont have surgery because of the time out of the gym and also the chance of a full recovery are slim.

Whats happening now is my range of motion is getting less but I am stretching it and rolling everything out along with all the internet and external rotation exercise's for my cuff's. The thing is ive been experimenting with the pain aspect which is mainly on chest and shoulder press. What really sets me back with pain and soreness is the doing proper form and doing a proper range "my groove" so to speak. But what ive done over the last few session is limit my range and stop just short of were the pain starts and my cuff starts to cause me issues, once it starts its more or less game over.

Now I have 3 thoughts on this matter

1, stop doing the pressing movements and do plenty of other movements to try and stimulate the muscle
positive would be no pain -negative would be for me is muscle will disappear which will cause me serious head fuk

2, Try doing the pressing movements but with a short range of motion but dig deep into my intensity to bring out enough stress to stimulate the muscle or at least maintain. positive = no pain and hopefully stress the muscle to grow, negative= range of motion will get less and less and this will be my new groove.

3, Stick with what I am doing and keep stretching it and doing my pressing and go lighter when the pain starts

What are your thoughts guys?

I know what I want to do but would like to hear your thoughts

What about sticking to pre exhaust. So by the time if you do a pressing movement the weight will be a little lighter and less stress?

I've never had shoulder issues.....so honestly have no clue in this matter.

Just thought even thought I know you already know it, I would give my thoughts

[NACH3]

I wont be cycling I am still having BW done all the way up to Xmas with my haematologist, so once that's all sorted I will try a very small cycle

Ok - I gotcha Marcus how's your Pro and platelets?!

[marcus300]

Nach

I haven't looked into those but will do. The problem with the UK we are so behind in this area where the States every second corner you got some specialist. We are so backwards it really fucks me off

I do feel I need a right good stretching professionally because I am a bit what you call muscle bound, especially around the shoulders and chest area.

So you think stick with the shorter range of motion see what that does? This was my aim to be honest for the next 6-8 weeks.

[BG]

Thats what I did buddy, it was 4 months no pressing, it recovered to about 70%, then GH mended it the rest of the way. You know what you have to do, you just have to commit to doing its which isnt easy. You know I just went through about 6 months of this, do what you gotta do. Now those fuckers wont look at me, I get done with a set and get up everybody looking down, at the wall, picking up a 10lb dumbbell even though they were just using 55's....................I know they were watching, place is covered with mirrors

[marcus300]

What about sticking to pre exhaust. So by the time if you do a pressing movement the weight will be a little lighter and less stress?

I've never had shoulder issues.....so honestly have no clue in this matter.

Just thought even thought I know you already know it, I would give my thoughts

I do pre exhaust now mate and my lighter weight still irritates me, for me to grow or maintain I have to get the intensity up or its just a waste of time I lose sized a lot but I think my time could be coming to be honest.

I like the discussion and trust everyone's judgement, tossing ideas around helps

[BG]

I am 49 this week ;(

Still younger the Kel

[marcus300]

Ok - I gotcha Marcus how's your Pro and platelets?!

They are concerned with low P but nothing as been done yet, not sure they know what to do with me. They say I'm unique lol cunts

[marcus300]

Thats what I did buddy, it was 4 months no pressing, it recovered to about 70%, then GH mended it the rest of the way. You know what you have to do, you just have to commit to doing its which isnt easy. You know I just went through about 6 months of this, do what you gotta do. Now those fuckers wont look at me, I get done with a set and get up everybody looking down, at the wall, picking up a 10lb dumbbell even though they were just using 55's....................I know they were watching, place is covered with mirrors

So you suggest no pressing at all?

I cant go on gh at this moment in time mate, ive got a lot of internal organs enlarged and in the back of my head I think its down to gh so at this stage I wont touch it also I am having constant BW done and want to be totally clean ive got a lot of issues going on.

[marcus300]

Still younger the Kel

Kel's a freak, but I love my dad xx

[Proximal]

guys, my rc issue isn't getting any better which i know it wont but i wont have surgery because of the time out of the gym and also the chance of a full recovery are slim.

Whats happening now is my range of motion is getting less but i am stretching it and rolling everything out along with all the internet and external rotation exercise's for my cuff's. pending what the mri says, manual therapy from a trained therapist could be helpful to properly stretch out the joint to give you more range (much better than what you can do on your own)

the thing is ive been experimenting with the pain aspect which is mainly on chest and shoulder press. What really sets me back with pain and soreness is the doing proper form and doing a proper range "my groove" so to speak. you may have to alter your preferred groove. For instance with flat bench, you might have to keep the elbows tighter depending upon how much you flare them out & drop the bar lower on your chest. Overhead press with the olympic bar is going to be tough to alter. Smith machine will allow you more flexibility with your elbow positioning

but what ive done over the last few session is limit my range and stop just short of were the pain starts and my cuff starts to cause me issues, once it starts its more or less game over.

Now i have 3 thoughts on this matter

1, stop doing the pressing movements and do plenty of other movements to try and stimulate the muscle
positive would be no pain -negative would be for me is muscle will disappear which will cause me serious head fun

overhead pressing simply will cause friction to your cuff - end of story. Flat bench less so as indicated above

2, try doing the pressing movements but with a short range of motion but dig deep into my intensity to bring out enough stress to stimulate the muscle or at least maintain. Positive = no pain and hopefully stress the muscle to grow, negative= range of motion will get less and less and this will be my new groove.

Smith machine and others give you more flexibility here so that you can alter your "groove" and also start the movement in a comfortable place.

3, stick with what i am doing and keep stretching it and doing my pressing and go lighter when the pain starts.

get the mri to find the extent of your damage to help answer this. But if you push it to the point of pain, you are very likely causing more damage.


what are your thoughts guys?

I know what i want to do but would like to hear your thoughts

I'll stop there, didn't want to get too long winded.

Will have to vary my response a bit, it took too long to write and there have been numerous posts already

[NACH3]

Nach

I haven't looked into those but will do. The problem with the UK we are so behind in this area where the States every second corner you got some specialist. We are so backwards it really fucks me off

I do feel I need a right good stretching professionally because I am a bit what you call muscle bound, especially around the shoulders and chest area.

So you think stick with the shorter range of motion see what that does? This was my aim to be honest for the next 6-8 weeks.

I'm gonna try it too... Your already doing one BP only every 7-10 days etc - you can throw in your accessory rears w/back(shrugs/& rear delts)?!?! This has helped med w/my thickness not pressing but now w/this shorter ROM we blades together pull scraps inand rep that shit out?!?!

[BG]

So you suggest no pressing at all?

I cant go on gh at this moment in time mate, ive got a lot of internal organs enlarged and in the back of my head I think its down to gh so at this stage I wont touch it also I am having constant BW done and want to be totally clean ive got a lot of issues going on.

Yes I did no pressing except for very light smith incline bench to keep my chest pumped with lots of cables. Shoulders were all laterals and raises, everything super sets with different exercise but same muscle targeted. Get that shit pumped.

Listen, you know your not going to lose muscle, maybe size and some strength but your diet would have to be in a deficit to lose muscle as long as you are training. Let your body rebound and it all will come back, plus some, trust me Im doing it right now.

[NACH3]

They are concerned with low P but nothing as been done yet, not sure they know what to do with me. They say I'm unique lol cunts

Lmao you are!

[marcus300]

I'll stop there, didn't want to get too long winded.

Will have to vary my response a bit, it took too long to write and there have been numerous posts already

Thanks Prox

I haven't flat BB benched for around 15yrs, its all db's and I do change my elbows to help with the pain.

I actually did the injury doing decline bench press heavy lol

I am learning more intro any pressing movements and its more or less with the Viking press or seated military press which helps with the point of pain, but I don't get any if I limit the range of motion.

I couldn't do any RC exercises at first but with internal and external rotations ive built up some strength and do ok with them which has helped me a lot but I am getting frustrated that's why ive changed some things around.

I think I need to go and get some good stretching done

[marcus300]

Yes I did no pressing except for very light smith incline bench to keep my chest pumped with lots of cables. Shoulders were all laterals and raises, everything super sets with different exercise but same muscle targeted. Get that shit pumped.

Listen, you know your not going to lose muscle, maybe size and some strength but your diet would have to be in a deficit to lose muscle as long as you are training. Let your body rebound and it all will come back, plus some, trust me Im doing it right now.

I do lose muscle fast mate if I don't train in a certain way, I found this out before any injuries that's why I am so passionate about HIT, it made me huge but once I dropped it I lost size its how my body works. But I know I cant do what I use to do so I am just tossing things around seeing what will work best for me. Thanks for the input very interesting.

What shoulder injury did you have bg?

[Proximal]

I am 49 this week ;(

I see so many guys at the gym older than me with fantastic physiques. YOU ARE A YOUNG MAN!

Ive torn my RC it needs surgery, ive not got to involved because ive known this for a few years now. Ive not had a MRI and don't want to at this stage due to all the medical issues and appointments I am having, also the end result is they will want to operate and I wont have it done.

Any thoughts Prox

First off, surgery isn't a guarantee to fail - but of course you can't beat the shit out of that shoulder. But then you can take care of it to no end and it can still tear. But in the hands of a good surgeon, your odds are good it will hold.

Got it about the MRI, but it tells a LOT, because there is SO MUCH GOING ON THERE. That being said, right now you are in the dark because you don't know exactly what is torn and how badly it is, so you can't really make the greatest of decisions.

The ultimate risk is finally tearing all three tendons completely and having the muscles pull them back so they can't be reattached. Then movement is severely limited as well as your options in terms of what you can and can't do in the gym.

Nach, I'm sure your reading this and I'm not going to sugar-coat this. Total shoulders are to control pain and give patients some return to daily function. This really is not an option you guys want to face until you know your days in the gym are done.

You have to ask yourself Marcus, when you get into your mid 50's, 60's and beyond - what will you be satisfied with regarding your physique and being able to work out? Maybe that answer will help dictate how much you want to taper your workouts now to buy yourself time.

[marcus300]

I'll stop there, didn't want to get too long winded.

Will have to vary my response a bit, it took too long to write and there have been numerous posts already

Prox, if I use more of a baseball to roll into my rear delt and scapula would this help or do I need someone to manipulate this area by hand?

[Proximal]

Thanks Prox

I haven't flat BB benched for around 15yrs, its all db's and I do change my elbows to help with the pain.

I actually did the injury doing decline bench press heavy lol

I am learning more intro any pressing movements and its more or less with the Viking press or seated military press which helps with the point of pain, but I don't get any if I limit the range of motion.

I couldn't do any RC exercises at first but with internal and external rotations ive built up some strength and do ok with them which has helped me a lot but I am getting frustrated that's why ive changed some things around.

I think I need to go and get some good stretching done

You might not be able to get adequate external rotation because of joint tightness. This will be helped by a professional physical therapist (not a chiro). This is someone who is familiar with joint mechanics, not just muscle. Internal rotation shouldn't be an issue.

Even if you limit the range with shoulder pressing, unfortunately there still is friction & damage.

How are you with lateral raises and front raises to just below parallel or upright rowing?

[Proximal]

Prox, if I use more of a baseball to roll into my rear delt and scapula would this help or do I need someone to manipulate this area by hand?

Baseball sure - I've used a golf ball - hurt more, but got deeper (no jokes guys). The massage affect is not addressing the issue, just the after-affects of the aggravation, which left the muscle spasming.

[marcus300]

First off, surgery isn't a guarantee to fail - but of course you can't beat the shit out of that shoulder. But then you can take care of it to no end and it can still tear. But in the hands of a good surgeon, your odds are good it will hold.

Got it about the MRI, but it tells a LOT, because there is SO MUCH GOING ON THERE. That being said, right now you are in the dark because you don't know exactly what is torn and how badly it is, so you can't really make the greatest of decisions.

The ultimate risk is finally tearing all three tendons completely and having the muscles pull them back so they can't be reattached. Then movement is severely limited as well as your options in terms of what you can and can't do in the gym.

Nach, I'm sure your reading this and I'm not going to sugar-coat this. Total shoulders are to control pain and give patients some return to daily function. This really is not an option you guys want to face until you know your days in the gym are done.

You have to ask yourself Marcus, when you get into your mid 50's, 60's and beyond - what will you be satisfied with regarding your physique and being able to work out? Maybe that answer will help dictate how much you want to taper your workouts now to buy yourself time.

I hear you regarding surgery but even Dorian's surgery on his RC didn't work and for me to hunt out the best I would end up leaving the country for the operation and that's just not going to happen, here in the uk we are a few years behind if you ask me.

I know I should have a MRI but just trying to get the best out of this situation at present, got to many things going on with my body to start with the surgery route and in all honesty ive spoken to loads and not one said if they had the option again they would do it again, most say its worse. Doesn't give me hope at all.

What a question Prox, what do I want to look like to be honest how I look now, but that's not going to happen. I am just looking for the answer what will put things right and I know there isn't one. I have to accept things and train accordingly I know this but just tossing ideas around seeing what you guys think.

Ive really strengthened my other RC's by the exercises ive been doing so I guess that's progress

[Proximal]

Yes I did no pressing except for very light smith incline bench to keep my chest pumped with lots of cables. Shoulders were all laterals and raises, everything super sets with different exercise but same muscle targeted. Get that shit pumped.

Listen, you know your not going to lose muscle, maybe size and some strength but your diet would have to be in a deficit to lose muscle as long as you are training. Let your body rebound and it all will come back, plus some, trust me Im doing it right now.

This is great - provided the motion is pain-free - that is the key now.

However, not knowing how badly everything is torn (MRI, sorry) - it's still a ticking time-bomb and even if it is pain-free, it can just go.

[marcus300]

You might not be able to get adequate external rotation because of joint tightness. This will be helped by a professional physical therapist (not a chiro). This is someone who is familiar with joint mechanics, not just muscle. Internal rotation shouldn't be an issue.

Even if you limit the range with shoulder pressing, unfortunately there still is friction & damage.

How are you with lateral raises and front raises to just below parallel or upright rowing?

Lateral raises on the cybex seated machine which is pure side delt is good, no pain and strong. Free weight db's is different strength is down and movement looks odd on my left side.

front raises which ive only started to do because I felt I didn't need to because of the pressing I could do, are good so long as I raise the weight and bring it slightly inwards say its like in line with my nose.

upright rows are done with db's in singles which are fine

[Sfla80]

Question...kinda on and off subject...

Seems like a good 50% of members here have RC issues.

Is this primary from heavy lifting.

Is this something to expect in my future?

[marcus300]

This is great - provided the motion is pain-free - that is the key now.

However, not knowing how badly everything is torn (MRI, sorry) - it's still a ticking time-bomb and even if it is pain-free, it can just go.

I might just have one after ive had the all clear with everything else

[Tlolec the toilet]

Question...kinda on and off subject...

Seems like a good 50% of members here have RC issues.

Is this primary from heavy lifting.

Is this something to expect in my future?

Same here, i'm noticing that many are much older than i am too.

[Proximal]

Last thought.

Find a qualified physical therapist and tell them your history & needs. They should do:

1. Range of motion, joint motion exam of your glenohumeral joint.
2. A series of manual muscle tests to determine how strong your supraspinatus, infraspinatus and teres minor are. This alone should give you some improved insight as to how much or little each of these are involved.

Hope I've been somewhat of a help. Anything I can do Marcus, let me know.

[marcus300]

Question...kinda on and off subject...

Seems like a good 50% of members here have RC issues.

Is this primary from heavy lifting.

Is this something to expect in my future?

I know a lot of guys with shoulder issues it seems to be part of the game we are in. The constant attack on the delts without proper repair and rest may be a big issue. Heavy lifting doesn't help and when I was power lifting really hurt me lol. I once spoke to a therapist who Dorian use to go to and he said if you haven't been injured your not training hard enough, kind of sounded stupid and I told him but he said every athlete comes across injuries we have to learn from them because if your at the top of your game your going to push yourself to your limits and this is the danger zone.

I had a RC issues on my other shoulder in my 20's and it repaired, I did that from heavy pressing and pushing myself to hell.

[marcus300]

Last thought.

Find a qualified physical therapist and tell them your history & needs. They should do:

1. Range of motion, joint motion exam of your glenohumeral joint.
2. A series of manual muscle tests to determine how strong your supraspinatus, infraspinatus and teres minor are. This alone should give you some improved insight as to how much or little each of these are involved.

Hope I've been somewhat of a help. Anything I can do Marcus, let me know.

Thanks you have been a great help and everyone else.

I will be hitting you up via pm soon I think lol

[marcus300]

Legs today

Single leg extensions
3 warm up sets
1 working set with 2 rest pause

lying leg curls
2 feel sets
1 working set to failure plus 2 rest pause

V squat machine
2 working sets heavy to failure

Squats wide leg -high bar
3 sets of higher end reps

Calves (Kel your a cunt)
standing and seated both to failure 3 sets each

[BG]

Chest/Shoulders

Front laterals-Outside up next rep inside up slight twist
Dumbbell presses-Normal
Flat bench-med weight for reps, 1st time doing them in 6 months (not smith)
Cables-High/Med/med~low
Smith shoulder press-2 warms-1 working-1 drop
Flat dumbbells-2 sets of 70lb very slow
Incline dumbbells-2 sets of 70lb very slow
Single arm cable laterals w/straight bar front cable raise supers

Abs

[Proximal]

Lateral raises on the cybex seated machine which is pure side delt is good, no pain and strong. Free weight db's is different strength is down and movement looks odd on my left side.

Odd looking movement likely from compensating with scapular muscles. I'd stick with the seated machine - personally love it myself. You can really control your range, do drop sets easily, etc.

front raises which ive only started to do because I felt I didn't need to because of the pressing I could do, are good so long as I raise the weight and bring it slightly inwards say its like in line with my nose.

upright rows are done with db's in singles which are fine

You've got exercises to work with, which is saying a LOT - that's GREAT news.

[marcus300]

You've got exercises to work with, which is saying a LOT - that's GREAT news.

My thoughts exactly, I stick with the machine seems to take everything else out of the movement and is directly on the lateral head, love it and really can drop set the hell out of them

[Proximal]

Question...kinda on and off subject...

Seems like a good 50% of members here have RC issues.

Is this primary from heavy lifting.

Is this something to expect in my future?

Doesn't have to be heavy lifting. It's just the nature of the joint. You just have to respect it. If it hurts, find out why - huge mistake to work through it.