The body fat, fat cell, abs, and Blue Oyster Bar thread.....

[dan991]

Continuing discussions from here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n#.UOw7LuTBG8A

Do we still want to continue to argue the fat, fat cell content, and cell displacement? Or are we on the ab routine now? Hell I forgot. Post whatever.....

[--->>405<<---]

personally i dont consider ur logic regarding body fat % and fat cells much of an argument! LOL..

[dan991]

personally i dont consider ur logic regarding body fat % and fat cells much of an argument! LOL..

How is area and displacement that difficult to comprehend? You CAN be fat, and have a 6 pack. You CAN be fat and be in shape......

Look at the people that are severely obese and then have their stomach tied or whatever. After they lose 100 lbs; they still have skin folds that some get surgery to remove. The "skin" is more than just skin- its fat cells. The skin stretches over the fat cells to make room for them. That's why they have to be removed. The amount of "fat" in the body is lower- but the cells are still physically there. The ONLY ways to remove fat cells are either cutting them out or destroying them. Destruction can be by chemotherapy... which is why cancer patients get skinny quickly.

[RaginCajun]

How is area and displacement that difficult to comprehend? You CAN be fat, and have a 6 pack. You CAN be fat and be in shape......

Look at the people that are severely obese and then have their stomach tied or whatever. After they lose 100 lbs; they still have skin folds that some get surgery to remove. The "skin" is more than just skin- its fat cells. The skin stretches over the fat cells to make room for them. That's why they have to be removed. The amount of "fat" in the body is lower- but the cells are still physically there. The ONLY ways to remove fat cells are either cutting them out or destroying them. Destruction can be by chemotherapy... which is why cancer patients get skinny quickly.

i am pretty sure you are right about this

[dan991]

And if you think about it... if someone had their stomach tied, and lost 200 lbs, and then used a caliper to measure skin folds (the purpose of caliper measuring) or a Bod Pod.... they would STILL have high "fat" content.... even when they appear to be skinny. So... the skin fold caliper measuring technique is inaccurate also?

[gearbox]

The fat cells shrink on a person that goes from 15% to 8%. This person is not still 15%. He is 8 due to the shrinking of cells. He has potential to get back to 15% more rapidly imo. But to say he is not 8% when he gets weighed in water is incorrect imo. You have taking something way out of context but I get your idea and agree with a few points

[dan991]

i am pretty sure you are right about this

I know I am... I did the research. If you are a fat kid- you're still fat 20 years later even after you "lost" all the fat. The cells are still there. Once your body makes a cell- the only way it goes away is by death or being cut out. So... the dude on TV that was once 400 lbs and is now 180 lbs ripped... still has the fat cell content of a 400 lb person.

[lovbyts]

I read an article about that a couple of years ago in regards to killing the fat cells with laser and then your body will dispose of them. Your body only produces so many of fat cells but of course they grow/stretch but if you kill them they dont come back. Doesn't mean you cant get fat only it's harder.

[dan991]

The fat cells shrink on a person that goes from 15% to 8%. This person is not still 15%. He is 8 due to the shrinking of cells. He has potential to get back to 15% more rapidly imo. But to say he is not 8% when he gets weighed in water is incorrect imo. You have taking something way out of context but I get your idea and agree with a few points

How can you be "8%" fat composition if you have more than 8% fat cells? That's where the actual argument is. If you take one cup of water, and move it from a milk jug to a smaller container- it appears to be less water... but its not... its still one cup. "Shrinking" the fat cells is actually just moving it to a smaller container.... because the fat cells are still there.

[RaginCajun]

I know I am... I did the research. If you are a fat kid- you're still fat 20 years later even after you "lost" all the fat. The cells are still there. Once your body makes a cell- the only way it goes away is by death or being cut out. So... the dude on TV that was once 400 lbs and is now 180 lbs ripped... still has the fat cell content of a 400 lb person.

content is not the proper word to use here

he would still have the same number of fat cells, but not fat content

[Misery13]

I'd just like to go on record and say thank you for ****ing up my pre contest thread. I wouldn't put money on you to win a contest against honey boo boo. Spend less time trying to shrink the fat around your waistline and more time shrinking the fat cells in your head.

[dan991]

I think women's breasts are a PERFECT example. If a women has double F's... only way to significantly reduce them is surgery. Sure- if she goes on a diet she can reduce them a cup size or whatever... but she's not gonna go from double F's to a A cup with a diet. Same thing applies to the guys claiming to be shredded body fat #'s like they are ready to run Mr. Olympia after a few cycles.

[GirlyGymRat]

I think women's breasts are a PERFECT example. If a women has double F's... only way to significantly reduce them is surgery. Sure- if she goes on a diet she can reduce them a cup size or whatever... but she's not gonna go from double F's to a A cup with a diet. Same thing applies to the guys claiming to be shredded body fat #'s like they are ready to run Mr. Olympia after a few cycles.

I went from D to freakin barely B with diet. I was not happy.

[dan991]

content is not the proper word to use here

he would still have the same number of fat cells, but not fat content

Content is not the proper word? "Fat" that you burn off is the content of the fat cell....

Correct- he would still have the same number of fat cells, but NOT the "fat" content in the cell.... he's the trick though; a fell cell contains 35% water, 5% protein, and the rest is what makes up "fat" aka "fatty acids". So if someone was 25% body fat and they burned the fatty acids- how can they get to 7% body fat when they have the cell count of someone 25%, and 40% of those 25% are water and protein? Sure.. you can burn some of the water- but adding gear to the mix makes water retention even worse.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

How can you be "8%" fat composition if you have more than 8% fat cells? That's where the actual argument is. If you take one cup of water, and move it from a milk jug to a smaller container- it appears to be less water... but its not... its still one cup. "Shrinking" the fat cells is actually just moving it to a smaller container.... because the fat cells are still there.

Seriously? I didn't really get into the last thread because it was brought off topic but what your saying is such garbage. You realize that it's 8%, which is a relative number. So if you put a glass of water from a full glass into a milk jug, then yes, the % of water to air decreases. Just like if you lose fat by shrinking fat cells you will decreases your fat content and therefor fat %. What does fat cell content have to do with fat percentage? Fat percentage is simply a ratio of fat content to total body weight.

[dan991]

I'd just like to go on record and say thank you for ****ing up my pre contest thread. I wouldn't put money on you to win a contest against honey boo boo. Spend less time trying to shrink the fat around your waistline and more time shrinking the fat cells in your head.

Hey... I asked to have all my posts moved! I don't have that power... and I stopped after the first "you're jacking my thread" post but others kept it going. Sorry!

I don't have a lot of fat cells on my waste line... mine are in my neck and chin. I retain fat in my face and neck more than anywhere else.

[--->>405<<---]

How can you be "8%" fat composition if you have more than 8% fat cells? That's where the actual argument is. If you take one cup of water, and move it from a milk jug to a smaller container- it appears to be less water... but its not... its still one cup. "Shrinking" the fat cells is actually just moving it to a smaller container.... because the fat cells are still there.

this is where ur messing up IMO.. ur 8% bf because 8% of ur total weight is made up by FAT!!! its weight man.. WEIGHT.. weight..

its weight.. (did i say its weight??)

[dan991]

Seriously? I didn't really get into the last thread because it was brought off topic but what your saying is such garbage. You realize that it's 8%, which is a relative number. So if you put a glass of water from a full glass into a milk jug, then yes, the % of water to air decreases. Just like if you lose fat by shrinking fat cells you will decreases your fat content and therefor fat %. What does fat cell content have to do with fat percentage? Fat percentage is simply a ratio of fat content to total body weight.

The argument is people claiming to be 8% body fat over their entire body- that's bullshit. If anything... most displace the fat over a larger area by gaining size from working out; not necessarily "losing" it. The average person carries damn near 100,000 calories stored in the form of fat... you need calories to build muscle.

[gearbox]

Fat cells shrink when you lose weight. And in a cup of milk with muscle bones and fat cells. You shrink some fat cells you are then taking up less volume in the cup of milk due to your fat cells taking up less space because they are not big and fat. Hence 15% to 8%

[Back In Black]

Is anybody on about displacement of fat cells? You are right that people hold fat more in some parts of their body than others but what difference does that make. If I think my abs make me look 7% and my ar5e makes me look 12% then so what? An overall body composition test will say exactly what I am.

By your argument, a pro BB who is 22% in the off season steps on stage 'looking' much leaner but he actually is still 12% because that's his 'normal' fat %? What if he was 39% when he started trying? His fat cells haven't been removed so he's still 30% on stage?

Or do the fatty acids in his fat cells actually lessen because of energy output, thereby meaning less fatty acids, thereby meaning less bf%. Or are they all just displaced into the brain where you can't see them?

You have a pic somewhere that you stated you were 18%. Seriously??

[dan991]

Everyone keeps using abs and midsection as a reference- that's bullshit. Its NOT accurate in any form. Having abs doesn't make you 7%.

I would bet... 405 and I are probably VERY close in body fat content. Only way to tell is to get a full body DXA scan. I would bet our fat % is within 1-2% to the point that 405 and I should do a DXA scan... and I'll pay for his via PayPal if I'm wrong. Both of us should post full body pics and let all members guess where we are for body fat prior to the scan- post the scan results.

[krugerr]

A point about killing fat cells - there are several threads on the forums about either 'Laser Lipo' or freezing the fat cells. This destroys them and they are removed from the body as waste. Both have good reviews and feedback.

Interesting thread to read. Disheartening to think my BF% might be much higher... According to OP

-Krugerr

[dan991]

And I'm gonna bet that the scan result is probably closer to double what most vote.... any takers?

[Armykid93]

Who cares about a full body scan. You can't see the fat cells in your bone marrow. They don't make a difference in appearance. I don't understand why you can't just drop this. Its beyond ridiculous.

[Back In Black]

Everyone keeps using abs and midsection as a reference- that's bullshit. Its NOT accurate in any form. Having abs doesn't make you 7%.

I would bet... 405 and I are probably VERY close in body fat content. Only way to tell is to get a full body DXA scan. I would bet our fat % is within 1-2% to the point that 405 and I should do a DXA scan... and I'll pay for his via PayPal if I'm wrong. Both of us should post full body pics and let all members guess where we are for body fat prior to the scan- post the scan results.

If you read my post properly I didn't say I was 7% just because my abs made me look that way!!!!!!'

[dan991]

Who cares about a full body scan. You can't see the fat cells in your bone marrow. They don't make a difference in appearance. I don't understand why you can't just drop this. Its beyond ridiculous.

You can't see fat cells in bone marrow? Uhm... yea, you can because its added mass to the bone. How does it not make a difference in appearance? Any mass of any type makes a difference in appearance. Think I'm joking... take a before picture. Then take Hydrochlorothiazide for a week. Take another pic. Post them. Watch how fast you "cut"- without even going to the gym. You're gonna look like you just spent 8 months cutting in a week.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Who cares about a full body scan. You can't see the fat cells in your bone marrow. They don't make a difference in appearance. I don't understand why you can't just drop this. Its beyond ridiculous.

Agreed.

Dan your wrong, when someone brings up a valid point you sidestep it and go off on something else. You should really just drop the subject, you know your wrong but are just don't want to admit it.

[dan991]

Me- best guess: 19% body fat, 188.3 lbs, 5'8" I am saying for the record that 19% of my 188.3 lbs is body fat.

[dan991]

Agreed.

Dan your wrong, when someone brings up a valid point you sidestep it and go off on something else. You should really just drop the subject, you know your wrong but are just don't want to admit it.

How am I side stepping a valid point? You're telling me you cannot see fat in your bone marrow? How can you not see mass? Look in the mirror- its ALL mass.

[Back In Black]

Just cos you might be from a side angle doesn't mean you are overall!!!!!!
Lets see back and legs!

[S&S_ShovelHead]

I actually didn't say that. Go read my first post in this thread and refute it, if you cant then your claims are wrong.

[--->>405<<---]

^^ 19% there?? A front shot would be better but my guess would be 12-14% max.. But front shot is really needed

[dan991]

Just cos you might be from a side angle doesn't mean you are overall!!!!!!
Lets see back and legs!

At work, can't get naked for ya. But here are two other pics... still gonna say between 17-19% in both of these also.

[dan991]

^^ 19% there?? A front shot would be better but my guess would be 12-14% max.. But front shot is really needed

If at the time you took your avi pic, and I took the shower pic, we both got a DXA scan I would be we are within 1% of each other.

[Back In Black]

Before

6ft
230lbs
No visible definition anywhere

After
6ft
190lbs
Visible abs and more definition in every part if the body.
Lean body mass visibly increased

So, what weight has he lost?

[dan991]

So here's the actual point to this... If at 188.3 lbs and 19% body fat I look like that.... what does a person of the same height that claims to be 200 lbs 8% look like? Fvcking Arnold!

[dan991]

I went from D to freakin barely B with diet. I was not happy.

Proof required... post pics... (j/k)

Okay.. you went from a D to a B. You honestly believe you could go from a DD to an A? Wouldn't you have small flabby sagging boobs then because the skin from DD is still there which in itself would take up the entire cup of an A. That's my argument- How does someone who was 25+% body fat at one point in their life turn into Mr. Olympia?

[--->>405<<---]

Here the thing: my skin is freaking thin dude. I have vascarity on my abdomen. The bod pod said i was 9.9% at 193lbs 5'9"

U say im 19% based on flawed logic (IMO) and ur opinion..

Im going with the bod pod on this one. Ill look up dxa and see if there is one around here.

[Lunk1]

The only thing that is undisputable and without argument about this entire thread is...Dan, your an ugly fuker (good thing you say you make bank) lol

[dan991]

Seriously? I didn't really get into the last thread because it was brought off topic but what your saying is such garbage. You realize that it's 8%, which is a relative number. So if you put a glass of water from a full glass into a milk jug, then yes, the % of water to air decreases. Just like if you lose fat by shrinking fat cells you will decreases your fat content and therefor fat %. What does fat cell content have to do with fat percentage? Fat percentage is simply a ratio of fat content to total body weight.

Here's the thing with fat content- its not selective. All cells are equal in content and some areas on your body contain more cells. Men have more fat cells in their midsection; women in their thighs, boobs, and ass. If 35% of a fat cell is water, and 5% is protein.... that leaves 60% of fatty acids. IF your on cycle- your retaining more water and burning fatty acids. How much of the cell do you think is actually being "shrunk"? Water weighs MORE than fat....