F***ing Insurance rates!!

[Pete235]

I'm not sure if my American brethern are going through this but rising Ins. rates in Canada are getting ridiculous and out of hand! I'll assume that it is in no small part due to frivolous and ridiculous law suits. Here are some examples:

"The "Stella" Award - is for the most frivolous lawsuit in the U.S. The cases listed below are clear candidates. They are verging on the outright ridiculous and yet (in the good old USA) with the right attorney you could win anything.

1.) January 2000: Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas was awarded
$780,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little snot was Mrs. Robertson's son.

2.) June 1998: A 19 year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda
Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.

3.) October 1998: Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania was leaving
a house he had just robbed by way of the garage. He was unable to get the garage door open since the automatic door opener was not functioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and the garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation. Mr.Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found and a bag of dog food. He sued the homeowner's insurance, claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of half a million dollars.

4.) October 1999: Jerry Williams of Little Rock was awarded $14,500 and
medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door
neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in it's owner's fenced-in yard. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked at the time by Mr. Williams who was shooting it repeatedly with a1pellet gun.

5.) May 2000: A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of Lancaster, PA $113,500 after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx. The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson threw it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.

6.) December 1997: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses.

And the winner is:

7.) Mr. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City. In November 2000, Mr. Grazinski
purchased a brand new 32 foot Winnebago motor home. On his first trip
home, having joined the freeway, he set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back and make himself a cup of coffee. Not surprisingly, the Winnie left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mr. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising him in the handbook that he could not actually do this. He was awarded $1,750,000 plus a new Winnebago. (Winnebago actually changed their handbooks on the back of this court case, just in case there are any other complete morons buying their vehicles.)

[painintheazz]

I feel for you, I wanted to buy a cobra mustang well I can afford the payments on the thing but I sure as hell can't afford the insurance on a sports car for a 22 year old with 2 speeding tickets, in a high theft rate neighborhood. ERRRRRR, they quoted me at 4200 a year..... WTF, right now my damn 01 blazer is running me a cool 2900 a year, for a damn SUV. errrrrrrrrrr

[EXCESS]

Yep, people will sue for anything nowadays. The Stella Awards are named after the Stella that sued McDonalds after she spilled coffee on her crotch.

[Terinox]

That shit is CRAZY!!! Man, can't believe what things people get away with, my God, it's hilarious and sick at the same time!! I mean, damn, I should sue AR for getting me addicted and forcing me to sit here at their website for 6 hours a day at least

[jeffylyte]

lucky most jury awards get reduced on appeal. or flat out overturned.

[palme]

You wanna know what it cost to insure a bike here in Sweden? Up to $20.000 when your under 25 and own a sportbike...but there are ways around it, you can sign it on your grandma and get $200 for her funeral

[EXCESS]

Originally posted by palme
You wanna know what it cost to insure a bike here in Sweden? Up to $20.000 when your under 25 and own a sportbike...but there are ways around it, you can sign it on your grandma and get $200 for her funeral

Yeah, but I heard they give away a free Volvo with every insurance policy purchased.

[Full Intensity]

My rates rocketed, a buddy i know, his rates went up 1600

[The Butcher]

Actually, insurance rates going up don't really have anything to do with payouts on frivilous lawsuits. Truth is that the Insurance companies have lost a shitload of $ due to the downturn in the economy and subsequent losses in the markets. So, in order to get their money back, they fuck us over. Then they blame lawsuits as the cause, so you don't realize that they have been taking all of your premium money (which is essentially a safe gamble for them since most people end up paying way more in premiums throughout their life than they ever get back from Insurance companies) and have been investing it in other things so that they can try and make even more money. Trust me, Insurance Companies are not hurting due to "frivilous" lawsuits. Insurance companies are real good at not paying out to the people they probably should.

One other thing, while many of those lawsuits appear to be frivilous, you are not really getting all of the facts. That's not to say that the fucking idiot in the Winnebago deserved anything other than a swift kick in the ass for being so stupid, but you have to realize that there are checks and balances in the legal system that are set up to try and eliminate most of the unfair or outrageous payouts. Take into consideration the fact that a JURY of 12 or so people decided that the payouts on these cases was deserved. That means that 12 people (all of whom surely pay insurance premiums as well) decided that these people deserved the money they got. So, there was probably something else in the case other than what these little blurbs are telling us.

One other "check" in the system is the fact that if the judge deems an award to be out of line, he/she can lower the amount. This happens from time to time, but it's rarely reported b/c nobody would hear about these awards if the titles in the paper were something like "JURY AWARDS IDIOT $100,000,000 FOR SLIPPING ON HIS OWN SPIT IN A RESTARAUNT, but a judge lowered the amount to $100".

And last, but not least, we have lawyers to thank for a majority of the safety features in things like automobiles, machinery, etc. Companies that manufacture machinery, cars, etc are in the business of making money. If they can save a few million dollars by not putting a latch here, or a hook there, they will do so. Now that they fear getting their asses sued for making products that are unsafe, the things we use are actually safer for us than they probably would be if there weren't lawyers around to sue companies to get them to do something as simple as install a safety latch.

[mammoth]

Originally posted by The Butcher
Actually, insurance rates going up don't really have anything to do with payouts on frivilous lawsuits. Truth is that the Insurance companies have lost a shitload of $ due to the downturn in the economy and subsequent losses in the markets. So, in order to get their money back, they fuck us over. Then they blame lawsuits as the cause, so you don't realize that they have been taking all of your premium money (which is essentially a safe gamble for them since most people end up paying way more in premiums throughout their life than they ever get back from Insurance companies) and have been investing it in other things so that they can try and make even more money. Trust me, Insurance Companies are not hurting due to "frivilous" lawsuits. Insurance companies are real good at not paying out to the people they probably should.

I have an aunt who owns an insurance company and can garauntee that its the frivilous lawsuits that have increased insurance premiums. Economy does play a role as well, but the substantial increase in frivilous lawsuits as well as insurance fraud is what has increased the premiums and not mainly the economy. Insurance companies spend millions of dollars a year defending themselves in frivilous suits and they have to increase premiums in order to keep up with the increasing expenses. That is also why medical insurance has gone up as well!

One other thing, while many of those lawsuits appear to be frivilous, you are not really getting all of the facts. That's not to say that the fucking idiot in the Winnebago deserved anything other than a swift kick in the ass for being so stupid, but you have to realize that there are checks and balances in the legal system that are set up to try and eliminate most of the unfair or outrageous payouts. Take into consideration the fact that a JURY of 12 or so people decided that the payouts on these cases was deserved. That means that 12 people (all of whom surely pay insurance premiums as well) decided that these people deserved the money they got. So, there was probably something else in the case other than what these little blurbs are telling us.

You also have to remember that the majority of these frivilous suits are won based on how they are presented to the court by the attorney. Attorneys are paid to be bullshit artists and most of them can change favor of the jury.

[The Butcher]

I have an aunt who owns an insurance company and can garauntee that its the frivilous lawsuits that have increased insurance premiums. Economy does play a role as well, but the substantial increase in frivilous lawsuits as well as insurance fraud is what has increased the premiums and not mainly the economy. Insurance companies spend millions of dollars a year defending themselves in frivilous suits and they have to increase premiums in order to keep up with the increasing expenses. That is also why medical insurance has gone up as well!


Payouts for punitive damages on lawsuits by Insurance Companies are lower now than they have ever been. They are somewhere around 4%. Source: University of Wisconsin Law Professor (I'd have to scan through 30 minutes of video about Tort Reform in order to get his name, but I do rememeber that he was from University of Wisconsin). I will agree with you that there is alot Insurance Fraud going on, and yes, that does affect our rates quite a bit. However, it's not insurance fraud in lawsuits, it's just straight up insurance fraud that goes undetected that makes Insurance Companies lose money.

Both of my Grandparents owned Insurance Companies as well. However, as is usually the case, it's not these insurance companies that set the rates. The Underwriters who honor the policies are the ones that jack up the rates, then the Insurance Companies that you and I visit to get our policies have to jack up their rates in order to make a profit, and they pass the burden on to us, the end users. Yes, these Insurance Companies have to spend millions every year to defend themselves against lawsuits. However, I would argue that most of them are not frivilous. You have to take into consideration that most lawyers who bring lawsuits against Insurance Companies do so on a contingency basis. Meaning, if they don't win anything (or settle) then they don't get paid. That being the case, the lawyer has to determine if the case is valid enough to put the time and considerable cost into filing the case. If a lawyer can get $250/hour practicing law that is not on a contingency basis, he is not going to waste his time with a frivilous lawsuit where the potential exists that he won't get shit from it if the case is not somewhat valid. It wouldn't be worth it to him/her. That is not to say that there are not some frivilous lawsuits out there. I would certainly agree that there are some shady lawyers out there as well. But, to say that frivilous lawsuits are the cause of our increased premiums is passing the buck off to the wrong person.



You also have to remember that the majority of these frivilous suits are won based on how they are presented to the court by the attorney. Attorneys are paid to be bullshit artists and most of them can change favor of the jury.

If the lawyer can present the case to the court in a manner that 12 people think that person deserves a settlement, then they probably deserve a settlement. And, like I said, if the award is out of line the judge has the power to step in and reduce the award. Insurance Companies have been very succesful in advertising for their own cause by convincing everyone that it is these frivilous lawsuits that cause our insurance rates to go up. So, before the jury even enters the courtroom, they have been unfairly biased in favor of the insurance company b/c they think "If we give a big payout on this case, our rates will go up." So, the plaintiff's attorney is already at a disadvantage b/c he/she has to try and win over a jury that is already biased in favor of the Insurance Company.

I particularly like when you stated "Attorneys are paid to be bullshit artists and most of them can change favor of the jury."
Who do you think is representing the Insurance Companies?

[mammoth]

Well without quoting I will say that I agree that the punitive panyouts are less but I don't think that the amount of expense for defense of lawsuits has changed. I don't mean to come off as saying that the lawsuits are the ONLY thing that increases our insurance premiums, but I do feel as though it plays a large part in it as well as all the other factors such as economy, fraud, and so forth. I can't really argue the point however, simply because my information is hearsay.

I don't see where insurance companies advertise the fact that the increase is due mainly to lawsuits. Also to think that a jury will rule in favor of a insurance company simply because they fear a rate hike, to me, seems highly un-likely. I don't think that our society is that naive!

[David B.]

Originally posted by Pete235
I'm not sure if my American brethern are going through this but rising Ins. rates in Canada are getting ridiculous and out of hand!

Down here, it's the health insurance rates that are skyrocketing, and showing no signs of slowing down. At least that's something you don't have to worry about up in Canada.

--dnb

[The Butcher]

Originally posted by mammoth

I don't see where insurance companies advertise the fact that the increase is due mainly to lawsuits. Also to think that a jury will rule in favor of a insurance company simply because they fear a rate hike, to me, seems highly un-likely. I don't think that our society is that naive!

Have you ever seen the "Stop Lawsuit Abuse" billboards or commercials on TV? Insurance companies are huge contributors to the lobbies that create those ads. And it's really not too far fetched to believe that a jury would consider something like giving a smaller award in a case b/c they figure that their rates might increase from it. Unfortunately, our society IS that naive. Mammoth, don't think I am trying to blast you here. Just trying to give the other side of the story that is less publicsized. When election time comes around, pay attention to the political ads. You'll be able to tell who is collecting campaign fund donations from the insurance companies. Just look for the politicians whose platform has alot to do with Tort Reform.

[mammoth]

Originally posted by The Butcher


Have you ever seen the "Stop Lawsuit Abuse" billboards or commercials on TV?

No I haven't seen those. Probably due to the fact that I don't watch TV hardly at all.


Insurance companies are huge contributors to the lobbies that create those ads. And it's really not too far fetched to believe that a jury would consider something like giving a smaller award in a case b/c they figure that their rates might increase from it. Unfortunately, our society IS that naive. Mammoth, don't think I am trying to blast you here. Just trying to give the other side of the story that is less publicsized. When election time comes around, pay attention to the political ads. You'll be able to tell who is collecting campaign fund donations from the insurance companies. Just look for the politicians whose platform has alot to do with Tort Reform.

I don't feel like you are blasting me at all. Its nice to know that there are some people who can have a disagreement without flaming. It is scary to know that some people in this world actually are that naive, but luckily I have not been around those people. Most of the people I know are smarter than that. Plus, I hang around alot of republicans who are capitalist pigs so for them its all about the benjamins, if ya know what I mean.

[sin]

just thought id weigh in. in high school car ford festiva. cost=$6000.00
insurance=$3000.00/year with a clean driving record! health insurance=$900.00/year and when i cut my hand open last year the er still cost me $600.00 out of pocket! just for them to lean the wound and wrap it. what is the purpose of having health insurance if it doesnt cover anything?

[David B.]

Originally posted by sin
just thought id weigh in. in high school car ford festiva. cost=$6000.00
insurance=$3000.00/year with a clean driving record!

Car insurance gets a LOT cheaper when you hit 25.

--dnb