No God

[Mentalism]

After my study of the Kabbalah and related texts (Goetia, 72 Names of God etc.,) I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no "heaven" or "hell" by definition, and are just mearly means of describing mental states of being - not actual places.

"Spirits" and "Demons" are really just acts of your conscious/unconscious mind. Demons being knowledge or ego based actions, and "higher spirits" or angels as people say would be acts of true will or "self".

If anyone is familiar with the Goetia, they know of King Solomons system of evoking and controling "spirits". Through ceremonies using perfumes, candles, props, hallucinagins, etc., all to alter the state of the person "evoking" this spirit. It all is symbolic of certain areas or portions of your very own brain that normally go left untapped, and by following these rituals, you supposidly "open" these special areas of your own mind.

So.. no spirits, no demons, no devil, no "God" by definition. Its my belief that "God" is nothing more then a higher state of being, and that Jesus was nothing but a modern day magician.

Not sure if anyone follows any type of philosophy... but just thought Id bring this up and see where it goes.

[Terinox]

There is a God...I AM GOD!

Well okay, I'm not, that's the name I like to use on my MSN Nickname. Well, according to Descartes, not only does God excist, but he virtually controls everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. From the smallest thing to the biggest thing. From the movement of your arm, to the love you feel for a women.

Then go check out some of the stuff Locke talks about, he is quite disgusted with the whole God theory, and pretty much believes we are all on our own. There are TONS of opinions, you gotta read a bit of each, and see where it takes you.

No, Jesus was no son of God, nor was he even a modern day magician. I actually think Monty Python portrayed Jesus the perfect way. He was nothing more then a simple humble man, a good hearted man, who liked to care for people, and wanted to help people live better lives, who had ideas of how life should be lived, etc... I don't even think Jesus talked about God the way everyone claims he did, he probably never even claimed to be the son of God, nor was he happy about being betrayed and murdered, etc...

His body did not disappear and go into the heavens, a bunch of the Church's hooligans went to the cave, took his body, and burnt it/burried it/drowned it, or something very similar to that. Jesus was all a big conspiracy by the church to shut people up, and give more power to the Church/King, and keep the peasants doing what they were doing, farming their food, and giving it to the royalties.

[EXCESS]

Judging from similar threads in the past, this thread will probably be closed or deleted. Why? Because there's always someone that is unable to take part in a thoughtful debate in a mature manner. If anyone plans on flaming or insulting religions, plan on your words being deleted. Let's see where this thread goes...hopefully it works out.

[Matt Foley]

Originally posted by EXCESS
Judging from similar threads in the past, this thread will probably be closed or deleted. Why? Because there's always someone that is unable to take part in a thoughtful debate in a mature manner. If anyone plans on flaming or insulting religions, plan on your words being deleted. Let's see where this thread goes...hopefully it works out.

unfortunately, these posts usually cannot be discussed rationally.my thoughts exactly EXCESS.

[Rickson]

God says your wrong. And that you can drink winny.

[tt333]

I belive theres a god. The one thing that scares the shit out of me is , what if we were never here? How was the earth really created and how were all the other planets really created? This shit doesnt pop up on its own, somebody had to create it.

[Natoli220]

And that you can drink winny - Rickson .

I have seen too much shit that cannot be explained by science. Somethings are true whether we believe in them or not. If there is no God so be it. At least I lived my life that promoted the well-being of my friends and foes. There are only two absolute truths: Death and taxes. You have to remember your eyes lie to you to everyday. We do not see things as what they really are. Molecules to atoms all the way to quarks. Our metabolism allows us only to see certain things @ certain speeds. If you were to put an apple in front of snail (it has a 3 second reaction) and picked it up under three seconds, to the snail it would be fuzzy and then disapears into thin air. The samething could be happening to us. Also there is no memory bank in our brains (according to modern science) it seems to float in the air. Read the book How to know God, it was written for Atheists and it converted me by using science prove the existence of God.

[FCECC2]

Originally posted by Terinox
There is a God...I AM GOD!

Well okay, I'm not, that's the name I like to use on my MSN Nickname. Well, according to Descartes, not only does God excist, but he virtually controls everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. From the smallest thing to the biggest thing. From the movement of your arm, to the love you feel for a women.

Then go check out some of the stuff Locke talks about, he is quite disgusted with the whole God theory, and pretty much believes we are all on our own. There are TONS of opinions, you gotta read a bit of each, and see where it takes you.

No, Jesus was no son of God, nor was he even a modern day magician. I actually think Monty Python portrayed Jesus the perfect way. He was nothing more then a simple humble man, a good hearted man, who liked to care for people, and wanted to help people live better lives, who had ideas of how life should be lived, etc... I don't even think Jesus talked about God the way everyone claims he did, he probably never even claimed to be the son of God, nor was he happy about being betrayed and murdered, etc...

His body did not disappear and go into the heavens, a bunch of the Church's hooligans went to the cave, took his body, and burnt it/burried it/drowned it, or something very similar to that. Jesus was all a big conspiracy by the church to shut people up, and give more power to the Church/King, and keep the peasants doing what they were doing, farming their food, and giving it to the royalties.

for the legend part im totally with you teri.
in many religion "god" was only a blurrry answer to anything. it was more easy to blame or to thanks an unreachable force. through ages you see how peoples poor knowlegdes made them unable to act or think by there owns. paradise, life after death and other stupid stuff was made to keep humans mood up and reduce depress due to the fact that THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT THERE PRESENT LIFES. after this no one knows. dont lie to your self. thats it.

i could talk about theology and philo for hours but i have some diffuclty to write my exact though in english sorry

[FCECC2]

Originally posted by tt333
I belive theres a god. The one thing that scares the shit out of me is , what if we were never here? How was the earth really created and how were all the other planets really created? This shit doesnt pop up on its own, somebody had to create it.

astrophysics have many time prove how astral entity were "made". 15 billions years is so damn long everything can happen, thing pops out and other dies. The mechanism is jsut too complex to us to understand it right. This is why again we thing that it must be GOD. we are just too dumb to understand thats it!!!

[FCECC2]

but again this is just my thoughs dont flame pleaze, i respect everyones opinion and believes

[Red Ketchup]

As you might guess, I am a total and complete atheist... to me anything to do with religion is a cruch for people who need to believe. Got nothing against that, it's just not my ballgame.


In response to this thread, I'll have to side with George Carlin.

Here are some of my favorite quotes:

"In the Bullshit Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.
Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you.
He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!"


"I want you to know, when it comes to believing in god- I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is FUCKED-UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago."



And my all time favorite:

"Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes."

Red

[FCECC2]

red those quotes are awesome!!!!
they just simply explain why religions were created. To control and to sucks our funds!!!

[Big Rush]

Originally posted by Rickson
God says your wrong. And that you can drink winny.

haha, hey Rickson, when does God say I should start Clomid?

[FCECC2]

the 5th Day

[Red Ketchup]

I always liked:

God is dead! - Friedrich Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead... - God

Red

[clockworks]

man, i can totally dig that. i've had similar thoughts like what you are talking bout. tell me more...=)

-- clocky baby

Originally posted by Mentalism
After my study of the Kabbalah and related texts (Goetia, 72 Names of God etc.,) I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no "heaven" or "hell" by definition, and are just mearly means of describing mental states of being - not actual places.

"Spirits" and "Demons" are really just acts of your conscious/unconscious mind. Demons being knowledge or ego based actions, and "higher spirits" or angels as people say would be acts of true will or "self".

If anyone is familiar with the Goetia, they know of King Solomons system of evoking and controling "spirits". Through ceremonies using perfumes, candles, props, hallucinagins, etc., all to alter the state of the person "evoking" this spirit. It all is symbolic of certain areas or portions of your very own brain that normally go left untapped, and by following these rituals, you supposidly "open" these special areas of your own mind.

So.. no spirits, no demons, no devil, no "God" by definition. Its my belief that "God" is nothing more then a higher state of being, and that Jesus was nothing but a modern day magician.

Not sure if anyone follows any type of philosophy... but just thought Id bring this up and see where it goes.

[Juggernaut]

Mentalism, have you read anything by Jung? Sorry I'm not familar with it by heart but some of the things he talks about dealing with methology and the subconscious (he calls it something else) run along the samelines as you described.

As for myself I think there is a God. But that's me. Be it how I was brought up or what was drummed into my head over the years it doesn't matter really it's just the way I think. Besides, I really want there to be a God because I have a crap load of questions for him. Like can you drink Winny or not? I know dumb joke.

[Matt Foley]

Originally posted by Rickson
God says your wrong. And that you can drink winny.

you can only drink liquid winny,and you can mix water and oils.

[mammoth]

I am my god. I control my destiny. I am responsible for my accomplishments and my failures.

[tolinka]

Mentalism--- I see what you are sayin bro. I honestly can say that I had the exect same thougths about this times to times. Never really read Kabalah(I always want to though) I have read some Buddahist stuff. Although I dont remember them relalting anything to demons and angels, I did it myself from my own life experinces.

Please, tell us more.

[Mentalism]

I forgot I started this thread until today.. glad to see it didn't turn into a massive fire fight.

Terinox - I think your correct for the most part about what Jesus was. When I say "magician" I mean... he was a practitioner of a science or technology not fully understood by man.

If you look at the powers that "magick" preaches, there is nothing mystical about them at all - as long as your perception is in the right place. For example, Solomon's Goetia preaches that once you learn to control these "spirits" you will be able to (1) demolish your enemies, (2) obtain treasure, (3) heal ailments etc.

(1) - As you begin to realize the fundamental laws which govern the universe (ie the law of equality) and in turn destroy your enemy by developing compassion towards him or excite compassion.
(2) - Business capacity in the brain may be stimulated.
(3) - Abnormal states of the body may be corrected and tissues might be brought back tone etc., in obedience to currents started from the brain.

...as you can see these are all mental realizations or feats accomplished by a concentration of focus or power in your very own brain. Nothing mystical about that, but to the majority who is not familiar with such techniques it might seem miraculous or metaphysical.

[Cycleon]

Originally posted by Mentalism
After my study of the Kabbalah and related texts (Goetia, 72 Names of God etc.,) I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no "heaven" or "hell" by definition, So.. no spirits, no demons, no devil, no "God" by definition. Its my belief that "God" is nothing more then a higher state of being, and that Jesus was nothing but a modern day magician.

Now its funny that you dont believe in God since he mentioned you twice in his word:

[I]Psalm 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
Psalm 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalm 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Psalm 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psalm 53:4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God.



PS - first clue is that you are studying the Kabalah - wonder what led you to that - Keep in mind, as kevin Spacey said so well in the Usual Suspects - The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World He Didn't Exist

[Mentalism]

Either that or it's hard for you to dismiss the beliefs you were raised up on...

I believe in some type of Creator. Most common references to God, especially those in the bible, are not speaking of God the Creator, but rather God as a state of being that anyone can achieve.

And if you use the Bible as your only source of religious study... then I think you will be missing a couple pieces of the puzzle for a very long time. To use any one source as the definative "guidebook" to any one topic (especially of religion) is dumb in my opinion.

[Buddha_Red]

the path of religion and mental conditioning takes many forms.

I am a buddhist but i respect all forms of religion and even the people that do not believe in anything.

Its a personal journey, no one can give an answer to the HUGE questions.

Follow your heart and do no harm to others

[Tock]

Materialism makes the most sense to me . . . basically, everything that happens occurs because the situations immediately before set things to happen that way. And so on and so on. Restated simply, everything happens for a reason.

I once had notions of becoming a fundamentalist preacher. Taught Sunday School for several years, during my lesson preparations I found a few things that didn't quite make sense, which led to other questions for which I never have gotten a satisfactory answer. Twenty years later I couldn't tell myself that I beleived that the Bible was the inspired word of the universe's creator.

I suppose there might be a god (or several gods), but I can't say that I know there is one. But I can say that materialism makes sense to me. And I suppose that if God can be an atheist (he is, isn't he?) then so can I, and for the same reason--lack of evidence.

--Tock

ps- If God created Satan, and
. . . If Satan is the Father of All Evil,
. . . Then God is the GrandFather of All Evil.

[Buddha_Red]

you bring up some interesting ideas.

i noticed your avatar, totally within this topic heh

[Slypknot]

One funny thing I've found is the more I would dig in - the more questions (which could not possibly be answered) would crop up. I'd become confused/frustrated and eventually end up putting the book down - be it the bible or any other religious text.

I too believe that we inherit what our parents believed - and it's quite a hard thing to dismiss (depending upon their religion). My parents being Chrisitian obviously blessed me with that belief system - though I tend to bend it a little here and there and keep it as generalized as possible (limiting the dogma portions).

I can't dismiss that Jesus is the son of God. Regardless of what I've read and no matter how many conflicting issues crop up - I'm just hard wired to believe this. There's nothing that can prove he wasn't, nor that he was - so it's just a personal thing. I think I draw the line though when others begin trying to 'sell' their personal beliefs...the ole "I'm right you're wrong" approach.... "I'm going to heaven and you're burning in hell"..... BAD apples if ya ask me - it's what causes wars.

I don't think this belief robs me or anyone else - if anything it provides a 'connection' to something out there more powerful than myself. Humans appear to require this to function and grow spiritually. I feel bad for those who attempt to believe in nothing, that's a toughie! Just think, who's name would you yell out when tragedy strikes and ya begin the primitive beggining to a divinity?

Can't yell out 'NO ONE! HELP!'....heheh

[Mentalism]

Slyknot- said it perfect man. If you don't believe in God, if you don't believe some 'higher force' is watching you and helping you from about... what are you going to do!

People NEED to believe there is something greater then themselves out there, they NEED to have FAITH that some GOD is watching them from above. Just my opinion tho.

People forget that God didn't create religion, man did.