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Thread: Their children are dying because they use prayer instead of medicine.

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    austinite's Avatar
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    Their children are dying because they use prayer instead of medicine.



    A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.


    Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.


    Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.


    Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.


    "There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."


    A man who answered the phone at a listing for Herbert Schaible declined to comment and hung up.


    A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.



    Philadelphia Police Department/AP
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    The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.


    At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.


    "You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.


    Prosecutors on Monday sought to have the couple jailed, but Lerner permitted them to remain free because their seven other children had been placed in foster care.


    "He feels they are a danger to their children — not to the community, but to their own children," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore, who prosecuted the couple in 2010, said Tuesday.


    Herbert Schaible, 44, and his 43-year-old wife grew up in the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia and have served as teachers there. The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing — From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.


    "It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.


    A phone message left with the church on Tuesday was not immediately returned.


    The church's pastor said in 2010 that the couple had never received medical care themselves beyond the help of a lay midwife who attends home births.


    The Schaibles did take their children for medical checkups as required by their probation, according to Jayaraman, the defense attorney. Jayaraman said that Brandon was checked by a doctor when he was 10 days old, but she did not know whether the child had seen a doctor since.


    "Nobody argues that these aren't very loving, nurturing parents," she said Tuesday. "Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."
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    I know a mom who is an all natural all organic and refuses to give 6 year child antibiotics. Poor kid was sick for months, deteriorating week over week. Finally the grandmother stepped in and took the little girl to a doctor when she was sitting her. I don't understand these ppl. Misguided!!


    Side note: mother who is all natural phenatic recently had breast enhancement.

    Serious flawed behaviorIMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat View Post
    I know a mom who is an all natural all organic and refuses to give 6 year child antibiotics. Poor kid was sick for months, deteriorating week over week. Finally the grandmother stepped in and took the little girl to a doctor when she was sitting her. I don't understand these ppl. Misguided!!


    Side note: mother who is all natural phenatic recently had breast enhancement.

    Serious flawed behaviorIMO.
    Boobs are never flawed; she probably had organic saline in them!


    I believe in faith and even healing; but to solely rely on them for the health of one's child when a simple pill can save them is just plain stupid. How they were allowed to keep the second child is beyond me.

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    Come on people dont you know god only helps those who help themselves......I always loved that riddle


    Anyhow this is no different from any extremist and its sad that they were given the chance to do this a second time to a child. They look sick in the head.

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    can't fix stupid!

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    Extremists are fukn stupid...doesn't matter what they are extreme about!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rwy View Post
    Come on people dont you know god only helps those who help themselves......I always loved that riddle
    Actually man made; it's not biblical.

    But yeah, absolutely extreme views with no biblical support.

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    The death penalty seems fitting

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    Im not religious, but surely if these people are that devout, cant they believe that maybe gods answers to their prayers was modern medicine? God works in mysterious ways...

    In this day and age, regardless of your religious beliefs, surely you'd seek out medical attention. Its just common sense.

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    Wow its scary to think that way back the whole U.S used prayer to heal. Until the middle east and islam taught us about medicine to heal.

    These parents should be stoned

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    Quote Originally Posted by TbolzNdbols View Post
    Wow its scary to think that way back the whole U.S used prayer to heal. Until the middle east and islam taught us about medicine to heal.

    These parents should be stoned
    There have always been religious sects that believe in prayer for healing only; that isn't what the entire nation used to believe, much less practice.

    Lets not forget that most of what we have for modern medicine, vaccinations, research and antibiotics were developed here in the US. And medicine wasn't Islamic, it goes back much further than that. If you want to give credit to anyone, it's the Chinese. But every culture had medicinal herbs and processes to heal illness; some more useful than others.

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    I should be the first to condemn this and state how this is is an example of why religion is a bad thing, but whatever your beliefs, no loving God would condone neglect and these two need to go to jail, for no other reason than to stop breeding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    I should be the first to condemn this and state how this is is an example of why religion is a bad thing, but whatever your beliefs, no loving God would condone neglect and these two need to go to jail, for no other reason than to stop breeding.
    This has nothing to do with religion though..this is just extremist behavior at is finest. Dowsnt matter if ppl are living in the hills to avoid "the man", joining radical groups like PITA or this type of shyt above.

    Anytime you take a believe and then choose to be a radical extremest, then you have lost perspective on reality.

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    Adults have the right to believe what they want. The government already knew that this religion existed health department should have been checking on anyone belonging to this group that is not an adult.

    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Herbert and Catherine Schaible A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.
    These people already demonstrated that they were willing to allow one child to die in observance of their faith. The state should have stepped in and taken their children from them and ensured that they didn’t have anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    This has nothing to do with religion though..this is just extremist behavior at is finest. Dowsnt matter if ppl are living in the hills to avoid "the man", joining radical groups like PITA or this type of shyt above.

    Anytime you take a believe and then choose to be a radical extremest, then you have lost perspective on reality.
    good thought

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    I wonder if I beat that dude within an inch of his life if he would seek medical attention. Im very curious.

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    austinite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    I wonder if I beat that dude within an inch of his life if he would seek medical attention. Im very curious.
    Seems like a fair experiment to me.
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    Not everyone should be allowed to breed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TbolzNdbols View Post
    Wow its scary to think that way back the whole U.S used prayer to heal. Until the middle east and islam taught us about medicine to heal.

    These parents should be stoned
    Where did you learn this?
    Western Medicine largely stemmed from the Greeks, then the Romans, then was further developed by the Muslim world until Western Europe picked it back up in the Renaissance (which came long before the US).

    But medicine largely sucked and wasn't much more effective than prayer (IMO) until the late 19th century with the advent of germ theory, vaccines, and then antibiotics.

    Quote Originally Posted by LGM View Post
    There have always been religious sects that believe in prayer for healing only; that isn't what the entire nation used to believe, much less practice.

    Lets not forget that most of what we have for modern medicine, vaccinations, research and antibiotics were developed here in the US. And medicine wasn't Islamic, it goes back much further than that. If you want to give credit to anyone, it's the Chinese. But every culture had medicinal herbs and processes to heal illness; some more useful than others.
    Chinese (Eastern) medicine may be older than Western, but Eastern medicine has little to do with modern, Western medicine.
    Last edited by Bonaparte; 05-04-2013 at 01:39 AM.

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