Black Conservatives

[Metalject]

Before I go any begin, I hope this board has enough sense to not let this turn into some retarded race argument, as that's old and worn out and gets nowhere. Mods, I hope you'll let this thread stay as I would really like to hear some opinions. I understand it might create some idiotic comments because there are idiots out there, but if that does happen, maybe you can just remove those comments and let sane normal people talk about it like grown adults. Is that possible with a topic like this? I don't know, but I hope so.

I'm not a big fan of Sean Hannity's show. I don't really have anything against him but I often wonder if he's trapped like many in party politics and Dem or Rep that drives me nuts. However, I did catch a replay tonight of his show where he had a large audience of black conservatives. These were reporters, activist and politicians who are black and conservative, a rare combination in the U.S.

I found a few things interesting in this show. The primary question was why do most black Americans vote for the democratic party regardless of the candidate or the candidates track record? When it comes to Obama, the first election is easily understandable because of the historical significance, but the second election is very confusing when we consider the basic hard stats.

Since Obama took office, black unemployment has gone from 11% to nearly 15%. Some might say "big deal, that's only 4%" but 4% represents millions and millions of people. Black income has also gone down, more black Americans are also on government assistance now and that is NOT a good thing. Black youth unemployment is now over 50%. So why do most black Americans keep supporting this party when this group of politicians is not representing them or bringing forth any solutions but rather making it worse.

I would like to hear from some black people on this board who fall into that camp. I'm just looking for an honest answer. Not a bunch of hate talk back and forth between people, just honest answers.

And yes, I purposely use the phrase "Black Americans" as the term "African American" is in my opinion a bad phrase. We're just Americans, granted, I used the color of skin to distinguish one from another in this thread, but in the grand scheme we're just Americans, not African Americans, Irish Americans, Greek Americans, etc. This topic also came up in the program and all of the people in the audience hated the term "African American" because as they said it separates one group of Americans from the rest and I agree.

Thoughts?

[Hoggage_54]

1) Provide sources... Saying you saw something on TV is the same as saying you saw something on the internet. Knowledgeable members on this forum provide facts when giving advice to members, the same applies here.

2) Does this only apply to African Americans, or are other groups going through the same? Again, please provide sources... Millions of Americans have suffered from unemployment.

3) In the grand scheme, no you are all not "just Americans". If you believed we're all the same, you would not be classifying people into different groups. Everyone is unique and we all come from different cultures, which puts us into larger groups. This transcends political borders and being born in a certain place does not define us, but guides us.

4) This thread started as a race argument, so you can't say "I hope this board has enough sense to not let this turn into some retarded race argument," The very title of this thread involves race and you have selected a specific race to argue about...

5) Mitt Romney was a welfare recipient and Obama wasn't. Here is Mitt`s mom talking about receiving welfare: Lenore Romney on George Romney's Campaign for Governor - YouTube

[Euroholic]

Why do black people have it harder than white people? Theres no slavery your not allowed to be rasict. everyone is equal. So we all have the same opatounaties. The individual is in control of his own destiny.

[Armykid93]

Why do black people have it harder than white people? Theres no slavery your not allowed to be rasict. everyone is equal. So we all have the same opatounaties. The individual is in control of his own destiny.

X100 not sure why but many people feel this is not the case

[Metalject]

1) Provide sources... Saying you saw something on TV is the same as saying you saw something on the internet. Knowledgeable members on this forum provide facts when giving advice to members, the same applies here.

2) Does this only apply to African Americans, or are other groups going through the same? Again, please provide sources... Millions of Americans have suffered from unemployment.

3) In the grand scheme, no you are all not "just Americans". If you believed we're all the same, you would not be classifying people into different groups. Everyone is unique and we all come from different cultures, which puts us into larger groups. This transcends political borders and being born in a certain place does not define us, but guides us.

4) This thread started as a race argument, so you can't say "I hope this board has enough sense to not let this turn into some retarded race argument," The very title of this thread involves race and you have selected a specific race to argue about...

5) Mitt Romney was a welfare recipient and Obama wasn't. Here is Mitt`s mom talking about receiving welfare: Lenore Romney on George Romney's Campaign for Governor - YouTube

1. Here are some sources you asked for regarding unemployment and income:

Black Leaders Open Fire on Obama Over Unemployment - Donald Lambro - Page full

Obama Leaves the Black Community Behind | The Progressive

LAMBRO: Unemployed and black in Obama's America - Washington Times

2. The national unemployment rate is currently a little over 7%...you can look this up pretty much anywhere.

3. The thread asked a simple question, why do most black people support the democratic party. There's no other way to ask this question. Yes, I could have asked why other races support this or that party or way of thinking, but no other race supports any party at such a high rate, so I was curious as to why. What do every day black voters think? And yes, we are all unique individuals regardless of the country we live in. Constantly dividing ourselves into different types of Americans by where our ancestors came from a billion year ago is, however, meaningless. I don't give a crap where my ancestors came from, I know where they came from but it's meaningless. I'm an American. Yes, I'm white but my skin color doesn't define me. But still the question remains from the OP and I don't know how else to word it.

4. By retarded race argument I don't want the thread to turn into anything more than what it was intended to be, to answer a simple question and provide some thought and insight. By retarded race argument, I was implying I didn't want this thread to turn into racial attacks. And no, asking a question like this is not a racial attack. If the vast majority of all white people voted for only one party I'd ask the same question, but that's not the case. White voters are pretty well evenly split with only a slight advantage to the republican party over the democratic party.

A Closer Look at the Parties in 2012 | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

5. I have no idea what your last point has to do with the question in this thread so I don't know how to respond to it.

[zaggahamma]

saw the show and makes an interesting discussion

[Lunk1]

Metal, have you ever tried your hand at politics? I will tell you the secret I learned the hard way. Come election time, the group that shows up to vote in the largest numbers, is the group that has an axe to grind.

[Rusty11]

Metal, have you ever tried your hand at politics? I will tell you the secret I learned the hard way. Come election time, the group that shows up to vote in the largest numbers, is the group that has an axe to grind.

Very true.
When Obamacare begins levying fines against those without insurance, I assume those that voted him in will still say he's for the "little guy" and continue to sing hiis praises.

[Black]

Simple answer. If the government continues to give assistance without penalties, there aren't any incentives for people to do better or change anything.

If you're ok with getting stuff for free, why wouldn't you continue to support the people that are giving it to you?

[Times Roman]

Why do black people have it harder than white people? Theres no slavery your not allowed to be rasict. everyone is equal. So we all have the same opatounaties. The individual is in control of his own destiny.

This statement is a little naive. I'm a big dumb Irish boy, and I've seen a few things in my time. I've been on executive teams that were still a little on the racist side. It becomes clear to me when we go to the pub and have a few beers and things loosen up. No one speaks of it in the office, and in fact will deny it, but I have worked for many companies where top management was predominantly male and all white in a multi racial community.

Racism is not overt like it was when i was growing up. Today, it is much more subtle. Sure, I'm not going to deny that enrollment rates at community colleges are demographically on par, but there are still very subtle hiring practices that preclude an uneven playing field.

Trust me, the "good ol' boy" system is STILL alive and well.

EDIT:
Sure, I'm not going to deny that enrollment rates at community colleges are NOT demographically on par

[JohnnyVegas]

Why do black people have it harder than white people? Theres no slavery your not allowed to be rasict. everyone is equal. So we all have the same opatounaties. The individual is in control of his own destiny.

What you say SHOULD be true, but it isn't. Not even close. We are in control of of our destinies within the opportunities that are available but we do not have the same opportunities.

[gixxerboy1]

What you say SHOULD be true, but it isn't. Not even close. We are in control of of our destinies within the opportunities that are available but we do not have the same opportunities.

Very true, the area you live in and the money your family has effects a lot of your future

[gixxerboy1]

Metalject my opinion is a lot of people don't blame Obama for all the downfalls. They blame congress, just look at their approval rating. The president can only do so much

[Metalject]

Metalject my opinion is a lot of people don't blame Obama for all the downfalls. They blame congress, just look at their approval rating. The president can only do so much

I agree completely. Congress is equally at fault. I can't stand most of them, democrat or republican. The democratic party has largely turned into this monster progressive machine and many (most) of the republicans are just a slightly smaller version of the same monster. What's amazingly confusing though is while their approval rating is so low, we continue to vote the same people in.

But when it comes to Obama, any president pushes an agenda. That's their job, or at least part of it, to set a tone and influence congress. But not once has Obama brought forth any plan or ideas to help turn the tide that is making the black economic situation worse. Sure, he's talked about entitlements in regards to all people, but that's not a solution. Even worse, he has brought forth comments and ideas on making sure there is equal self-economic equality when it comes to latinos and the gay community. So again, why did nearly every black person in this country vote for him again?

[Rwy]

Metal, have you ever tried your hand at politics? I will tell you the secret I learned the hard way. Come election time, the group that shows up to vote in the largest numbers, is the group that has an axe to grind.

And Obama bought a ton of votes on the second election. Why bite the hand that feeds you

[Rwy]

I know this is a little off topic but its a rant. Black people are ****ed. A lot of them live in an area that its kill or be killed. So many turn to gangs for protection which in hand turns to drugs, murder, incarciration then tax paying dollars going to support them. Its a vicious cycle that is rarely broken. How can anyone really get ahead in that situation.

No single person republican or dem or independent can change anything in the us. The united states is a big barge of shit that can only be swayed in a direction. The party system is flawed. There are too many beliefs from too many different age groups. Older republicans are too conservative where younger ones are coming around on certain social issues. But most important there are too many different agendas.

Every day that comes and goes I just realize there is no fixing anything becuase everyone in power is in this for themselves and how they can become richer. Why dont we look into natural gas instead of gasoline. Ohhh we all know the answer to that one. How much do you think is given to parties for lobbying aka legal bribery. Once again we come back to dont bite the hand that feeds you.

You know today I went to get gas and the difference between a cash and credit card price was 71 cents per gallon. So to fill up my truck with my debit car it would cost me an additional $14 but hey I can grab cash out of the atm and then pay $6 atm fee for me to avoid paying $14. I had no idea the oil companies were not making money that they need to gouge us ever more.


The only way anything is going to change in this country is when the people have had enough and there is a complete purge of every politician in office. I honestly see people start rioting in the us like they do in other countries.

[kelkel]

Simple answer. If the government continues to give assistance without penalties, there aren't any incentives for people to do better or change anything.

If you're ok with getting stuff for free, why wouldn't you continue to support the people that are giving it to you?

Very well said DD.....


Here's an interesting quote going along with DD's comment. I'm sure most of you have read this before:


1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[gixxerboy1]

Simple answer. If the government continues to give assistance without penalties, there aren't any incentives for people to do better or change anything.

If you're ok with getting stuff for free, why wouldn't you continue to support the people that are giving it to you?

I'm sure there may be some. But I doubt the majority of people on assistance are happy and content with their situation.

[Rwy]

I am sure a lot of them are on drugs and should be drug tested before receiving assistance!!!!

[gixxerboy1]

I am sure a lot of them are on drugs and should be drug tested before receiving assistance!!!!

they tried it here in Florida, I honestly agreed with it. Until only a small percentage failed the test and the state lost money. It cost more to test everyone then they saved by catching people.

[Rwy]

Actually I remember hearing about that a few years ago. I wonder if it was easy for people to cheat

[gixxerboy1]

Actually I remember hearing about that a few years ago. I wonder if it was easy for people to cheat

we all know depending on what drugs you do its not hard to pass with a little notice of when your getting tested.

[Spartans09]

Many blacks and poor people in general have traded the "American Dream" for scraps off the table of the government.
Additionally, what once was intended as a safety net has turned into a comfy hammock and that hammock is really made out of spider web. They can never get out once they get in.

[gixxerboy1]

Many blacks and poor people in general have traded the "American Dream" for scraps off the table of the government.
Additionally, what once was intended as a safety net has turned into a comfy hammock and that hammock is really made out of spider web. They can never get out once they get in.

You really think living on unemployment, food stamps, or welfare is a comfy hammock?

[Rwy]

NO but people adapt.

[Black]

You really think living on unemployment, food stamps, or welfare is a comfy hammock?

Again, it's all about the type of person. To me and you, no, there is nothing desirable about being on assistance. But there are people out there who are content receiving whatever they get and don't strive for anything more.

I see 'help wanted' signs all over the place around where I live.

Also, I've worked for a Job and Family Services government agency in the past. I've witnessed people who were told they were working too many hours to receive a higher tier of assistance. So they would talk to their employers and have their hours cut. That's just one of many different instances.

I also saw a lady come in and get a gas card (just like food stamps, but gas) and then drive away in a Cadillac Escalade.

[Spartans09]

Ideal, no. Too comfortable, yes. People by the millions don't take advantage of their freedom and in fact do trade their freedom and the "American Dream" for the freebies off the government table.

[Spartans09]

Long-term unemployment, long term welfare, long term food assistance, Obama phones, etc.. This is a major part of the problem. It sure as hell does provide just enough comfort to suck the aspirations out of people to really go after what they are capable of. As long as the handouts keep coming, the votes keep rolling in. The liberals have destroyed entire generations of people with these god-forsaken policies-designed for one thing- to keep them in power.

[JohnGalt]

Don't ask useless questions. How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is John Galt?

[Honkey_Kong]

This really isn't a "black" problem as it is a poor-people's problems. It's easy to claim it's a black problem, because there is a higher percentage of them that are poor than other racial groups, but there are more white people milking welfare than there are blacks. What about those people?

It comes down to the fact of the matter is there is no incentives for somebody who is disadvantaged economically TO work hard. You think a $9 an hour McJob is going to even be worth it, when they make more money swallowing their pride and cashing that welfare cheque? Menial jobs don't pay the bills that are essential for living.

It's impossible to pay your rent, put food on the table, clothe yourself and your family, have transportation without government subsidies or flat out welfare, when you're in their positions.

Welfare/subsidies are really only a symptom of the problem. And the problem's scope is greater than the actual poor. It's the entire system that is flawed and designed to fail. Our entire economy is designed on the necessity of having a shortage of everything. Therefore there must be a distribution of said resources. Then it turns in to a game of why should such and such get the bigger share.

If you don't believe me on that, ever wonder why food costs are so expensive? You know the government purposely subsidizes farmers to either not grow or to destroy portions of their crops in order to drive the cost of food up. What impact does that have on the poor? Does it make that McJob worth it when they'll receive more money to not work? Everybody needs enough money to eat.

[Euroholic]

All i no is i was poor as a child. We were on welfare. We only ate 2 meals a day back then. I worked hard saved my money and bettered my self. So if i can do it why cant everybody? Its not a race thing its a lazy/pride thing.

[Honkey_Kong]

All i no is i was poor as a child. We were on welfare. We only ate 2 meals a day back then. I worked hard saved my money and bettered my self. So if i can do it why cant everybody? Its not a race thing its a lazy/pride thing.

Because in America, they don't pay people $200k a year to dig ditches.

[lovbyts]

All i no is i was poor as a child. We were on welfare. We only ate 2 meals a day back then. I worked hard saved my money and bettered my self. So if i can do it why cant everybody? Its not a race thing its a lazy/pride thing.

My parents always told me/us we were poor. Had no extra money for Christmas presents so dont expect much. Had no money for birthday presents so dont expect much. No money to go on trips but they said if things work out we will go to Disney Land next summer. I went with a friend when I was 21.

My dad worked for the biggest AC manufacturer in the state. I watched them give a couple hundred to the church every week including several cars, (not new but very good) pianos, organs and other big ticket items.

What it taught me was to not short my kids on life and experiences. That does not mean to give them everything they ask for or want but it means you have a choice most of the time to learn from your experiences and change them instead of following the same path.

I got to a point at one time where I had to apply for public assistance and got food stamps for about 6 months. The system is really set up not to help people unless you are willing to do nothing to better yourself and just accept what they give you. Because I owned a house, car and a small piece of property elsewhere I had to pay back 100% of what they gave me over the 6 months and they wanted in full as soon as I started working. lol It took me about 6 months to get them paid back and they were none to nice about it.

Still, I had the choice to just accept what they would give me and it would have been enough to live but not to the standards I wanted to be at and would not lower myself but I can see how people get caught up in it and give up.

Case in point there was a story recently where a woman was on welfare for years and also doing some training so she could get a decent job. When she did find employment after getting her paycheck she called the welfare office complaining about all the taxes in her paycheck because her bring home pay was not what she expected. They advice she got from the welfare office was priceless. They said quit your job and go back on welfare. That's what she did. Nice...

[Lunk1]

This really isn't a "black" problem as it is a poor-people's problems. It's easy to claim it's a black problem, because there is a higher percentage of them that are poor than other racial groups, but there are more white people milking welfare than there are blacks. What about those people?

It comes down to the fact of the matter is there is no incentives for somebody who is disadvantaged economically TO work hard. You think a $9 an hour McJob is going to even be worth it, when they make more money swallowing their pride and cashing that welfare cheque? Menial jobs don't pay the bills that are essential for living.

It's impossible to pay your rent, put food on the table, clothe yourself and your family, have transportation without government subsidies or flat out welfare, when you're in their positions.

Welfare/subsidies are really only a symptom of the problem. And the problem's scope is greater than the actual poor. It's the entire system that is flawed and designed to fail. Our entire economy is designed on the necessity of having a shortage of everything. Therefore there must be a distribution of said resources. Then it turns in to a game of why should such and such get the bigger share.

If you don't believe me on that, ever wonder why food costs are so expensive? You know the government purposely subsidizes farmers to either not grow or to destroy portions of their crops in order to drive the cost of food up. What impact does that have on the poor? Does it make that McJob worth it when they'll receive more money to not work? Everybody needs enough money to eat.

Get a second job at BK, maybe a 3rd at Wendys. I have had to do it, why shouldn't they?
The Govt needs to simply STOP subsidizing shyt. Farmers are becoming millionaires with increasing land values and higher crop prices, yet the Govt sends them huge checks in the mail.

[Spartans09]

Because in America, they don't pay people $200k a year to dig ditches.

Why should we pay $200,000 a year to dig a ditch? Menial jobs are not meant for life time careers, they are stepping stones. Same goes for McDonalds or most retail jobs. These are the first step on the ladder to success-your job is to climb that latter as fast as you can with your desire and skills. Most of us all started at this level and worked beyond it. We sure didn't wait around for the government to improve our positions. Personal responsibility is what is lacking with many poor people who continue to vote for liberal, central planned government policies that destroy anything they touch. Look at Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Newark, and on and on and on. Anything that has been impacted by these policies for any period of time and you find desperate people and a rotted once great city.

[lovbyts]

Why should we pay $200,000 a year to dig a ditch? Menial jobs are not meant for life time careers, they are stepping stones. Same goes for McDonalds or most retail jobs. These are the first step on the ladder to success-your job is to climb that latter as fast as you can with your desire and skills. Most of us all started at this level and worked beyond it. We sure didn't wait around for the government to improve our positions. Personal responsibility is what is lacking with many poor people who continue to vote for liberal, central planned government policies that destroy anything they touch. Look at Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Newark, and on and on and on. Anything that has been impacted by these policies for any period of time and you find desperate people and a rotted once great city.

I dont think he is saying he thinks they should but there are those who do seem to think (on the left) all jobs should pay the same or at least higher but all that does is raise the price of everything else...

I agree, most all of us who are worth their salt have worked hard labor or demeaning type jobs without complaining much and did a good enough job to move up the ladder. That doesn't mean that needs to be your career either, keep bettering yourself and learning to work smarter, not harder.

[Rwy]

Because in America, they don't pay people $200k a year to dig ditches.

No we dont. We pay 5 supervisors a 100k to watch 1 guy dig a ditch. How mnay times do you see construction on a highway or bridge and everyone is working. Its more like everyone is sitting around and there are one or two guys working.

[Zodiac82]

No we dont. We pay 5 supervisors a 100k to watch 1 guy dig a ditch. How mnay times do you see construction on a highway or bridge and everyone is working. Its more like everyone is sitting around and there are one or two guys working.

yep....im in that field....foreman's watchin other ppl workin....and other contractors 10 guys sittin around....one guy working...

dont get me wrong....the foreman's have paid there dues....but still 90k to basically sit around....man I wanna be a foreman lol

-Beast Mode-

[kelkel]

And now to lighten the mood:

I Was Born A Poor Black Child - YouTube

Steve Martin - You Mean Im Going to Stay the Color - YouTube

[Metalject]

Well, this thread took an entire different direction than I meant it to. Happens I guess.

Anyway, on the entitlement issue, and that is a 100% colorless issue, the problem is simple. Welfare, food stamps, any type of assistance, the reason that system is messed up is simple. It's not used for its intent. Government assistance is meant to be used when there is no other option. Currently it's used to give you a little more. For example, without government assistance maybe you can't afford to buy the fillet but you can still buy a pound of ground beef. Government assistance is meant for when you're desperate. If you're paying for cable TV, eating whatever you want at the grocery story, paying for a $100+ a month phone bill and things like that, you don't need government assistance. There are plenty of things you can cut out and plan a better budget that allows you to live within your means. And then from there you can strive for more on your own.