The only thing ill give Europe credit for in healthcare is they get treatments approved faster. That can be good an bad I suppose tho. There's a reason why we have long testing and trials but I'd like to see it a bit faster
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
The only thing ill give Europe credit for in healthcare is they get treatments approved faster. That can be good an bad I suppose tho. There's a reason why we have long testing and trials but I'd like to see it a bit faster
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
In ireland gyno removel is 100% free.Originally Posted by Hazard
Knowledgeable Member
Yeeeeeeea I was waiting for someone to say how everyone in the western world outside of America are socialists, three rungs down the ladder from a full blown third Reich! If you're from the UK, Canada, EU or Australasia don't presume to offer America an opinion on democracy cause we're all filthy, commie loving prolls living in monotone boxes with cameras in every room.
Do some of the people using words like communism and socialism actually know their meaning, or are they saying those words cause they heard it somewhere else and they saw it got a reaction.
Honkey Kong has laid his argument intelligently and he's basically told "can't get health insurance, well fvck you bro".
That's the message told to anyone with diabetes, epilepsy or any kind of disability..."fvck you bro, I'm fine, you're not"
I never thought being born with a disease made you undemocratic..
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Agree..... Some people need to see how the rest of the world live so they no what they have or don't have. It just seems crazy that people would rather have guns then healthcare.
Senior Member
Why the interest in having the u.s. be like the rest of the world? Country envy.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Country envy? You cant serious....
They should just lock this thread so it does not get more heated.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
I have no disdain for Europe. I love it actually..... Im Belgian heritage. I don't really care to discus any other topics honestly..... Atleast not in this thread.
What it boils down to is this...... America says you can make you're own living doing what you want as long as it falls within legal confines. Shit.... You can polish turds and sell em and it makes you a million - good for you. By the same token..... If you fail - you had and have every opportunity to make a different life for yourself.
Now..... Doctors choose to be doctors. They have the smarts to become other things in life but traditionally..... Doctors do very well money wise. These people pay a shit ton of money and start their lives in an assload of debt. A one size fits all healthcare system limits how much money a doctor can make. He can't charge what he wants. Is that fair? Is that what America's founding fathers would have wanted? Forget Europes values. Forget how you guys run your country. This isn't Europe...... And I don't mean that negatively.
I'm trying to figure out what you guys want to see here. What you are saying is every man should take care of the man next to him. How is it fair tho that one person unrelated to another has to contribute to his health? Now I resonantly disagree with a person not being able to get coverage. But I'm not in agreement with me paying for it. Why should I hafta pay for a junkie with diabetes...... Or a fat person who developed diabetes. Why should money come out of my pocket to assist a child molester? Lets face it..... I may not mind assisting a father of two who gets cancer but the fact is..... Not all cases are like that.
People in America have a tendency to abuse the system...... This will be another proven case.
Euro...... Nothing is free. You pay for the healthcare one way or another. If you don't see that ur nuts
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
Member
Sure there's nothing wrong with all Doctors charging what ever they please for their service.....
Just same as there's nothing wrong with oil companies charging whatever they please for gas.
Or farmers raising their prices of their services because hell they want to be rich too.
Watch what you say. Because you can't say one group of people can do it but cry foul when another does the same.
I happen to have awesome medical insurance where I'm fully covered. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't fight to help change things for the better for those who struggle. ( I'm not talking about welfare or whatever)
I'm an electrician and have wired many many Dr's homes.
They all complain about not making enough money
They all complain about all the hours they work.
They all complain about their debt when out of medical school.
They all also were building multimillion dollar Holmes while driving BMW n Benz with extra cars sitting in the garage.
Hmmmm REALLY!!!
American GREED is the problem nothing is never enough anymore.
Most people are so self centered only caring about themselves.
Doing whatever it takes to get more money.
Knowledgeable Member
Government shutdown? What a joke.
The IRS...still fully functional. If you received a paycheck during this "shutdown" you still had your taxes taken out and if you're 1099 you'll still be expected to pay taxes on the money you made during the "shutdown." The IRS, still fully staffed and ready to rape you in the ass without any lube or even a please and thank you.
Defense department, still fully functional, no halts, stalls, etc, in fact, big military operations are still happening, a big news worthy kill just yesterday.
The two big things government does are still working.
What odd is big companies have layoffs all the time, thousands of people. It's not that they want to but they have to. This rarely makes the news. But when someone in the government loses their job, it's a national disaster. Looks like these people can now enjoy being in the same boat we are all in in real life.
John Stossel made a good point the other day, keep the shutdown going. Let's see how big a difference it makes in everyone's lives having all these menial programs shutdown....BTW, it won't make a difference.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
For the record ..... I have no medical coverage right now. That doesn't mean I'm going to advocate a health reform bill that was put together shitty just so I can be covered.
Ur comparison with docs and oil companies is off a bit. Oil companies can corner the market since there aren't nearly as many. If you don't like what one doc charges you can goto another.
One solution to creating affordable healthcare is to create more competition. We can currently only purchase insurance from the state we reside in. Allowing in competition will drive the price down some. This won't help pre-existing cases but its a start.
I'm a single father between jobs at the moment. Things are very tight and I live off side jobs (low voltage wiring) - I'm not spending $200 on insurance every month because its going to affect life at home. When obamacare forces me to buy insurance what am I to do? Am I supposed to tell my daughter I can't buy her winter clothes but its okay because atleast those with diabetes are covered by insurance?
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
What about all the people that got laid off or had their hours reduced to below 30hrs a week so their companies wouldn't have to get them insurance? Not only were their hours cut but now that also have to spend $200/month for the shittiest coverage plan.
I guess they can sleep better at night tho knowing they aren't selfish.
I bet those with pre-existing conditions won't lose any sleep
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
As an electrician would you come fix my house for a rate I think is fair based on my income? Electricians charge a lot and I can't afford it. Shouldn't we all have working lights? Or is that not a born right either?
how would you like it if the government stepped into your field of work and said "we're cutting your hourly rates in half to make it more affordable to the American people" now by law you can't charge more.....
I'm sure you'd agree that electricians are necessary today. We need them..... Now what happens when we limit what an electrician can make? How many kids are going to look at jobs and say "we'll plumbers get paid more, masons get paid more, roofers get paid more...... Why should I be an electrician?"
Now lets apply this to a profession that costs $250,000-$300,000 to become. How many people will want I become doctors when their pay is limited by the government when they have the smarts to get into engineering?
We nee to look at the BIG picture...... There is more to it than "we need to not be selfish"
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
Knowledgeable Member
I'm just saying, Universal Health care hasn't caused anyone I know to go without food on the table. It's employed in some 50 countries around the world today.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
But how long has it been around? What would happen if your government just changed the system today?
America doesn't have it so to change the current standard will undoubtedly have an effect don't you think?
Someone just entering the workforce in Europe will have the money taken out of their checks in the form of taxes. They don't know any different so their lives are planned according to how much they know they bring home.
To make this relevant to you let's take for example what you make each month. Lets say its enough to get by with little wiggle room. Some months are ether than others. Now lets say your government says "we need to take action against (insert cause) and we will be increasing taxes to cover the expense to fight it" that tax for you happens to be more than you can afford with all your other expenses. You see what I'm saying?
The American people aren't used to an increase of this size. It will be a mandatory $200/month for the cheapest plan. Lets not forget here that obamacare offers different plans. Just because you pay the $200 doesn't mean all your healthcare is covered now. You still have a deductible to meet.....
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
The bigger issue here is this overhaul costs $1 trillion and there's no guarantee it'll work. If it fails - we royally fvcked ourselves.
If it works..... We then have to figure out how to pay for it. Cuz right now..... It's not fully funded either.....
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
Productive Member
^^^^ this well said. Greed is the problem.
Productive Member
i agree with you on this point. This is a loophole that will need to be closed. I'm sure there are others too, but no bill or law is good for everyone. There is a lot of good in this but also some bad.
Member
Like I've said several times I'm not for so called Obamacare . But I know for a fact that Hospitals are over charging for everything. This is due in part to Doctors , Hospitals putting profit over people. Drug companies pushing treatment instead of curing. Insurance companies raising rates to inconceivable levels for simple basic care plans.
And an Electricians rates are not through the roof as compared to DR's.
Plus you can go with out electricity and still live a long healthy live.
You can not go with health care the same way.
And Dr's do have you cornered like oil companies.
In your fatally injured you either pay or DIE. I say that's pretty cornered.
I could go round n round with you about the flawed system known as our healthcare.
But it would solve nothing.
The first step to fixing a problem is recognizing there is a problem.
Up until Obama no president has really recognised the problem. But yet everyone wants to point the finger at someone TRYING to fix a problem.
people get a fricking clue the government want all us divided with one side pointing the finger at the other.
So none us will stand together against the biggest problem this country has and that's our own government.
So while some blame the Dems n some blame the Reps. The Democrats and Republicans still collect their fat checks with the best benefits doing whatever they please
Because all of us are to busy blaming the other.
In order to be heard you have to speak the loudest. And the American people can't be heard when only a portion of us are speaking.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
It's not pay or die currently...... It's actually a tax burden but you won't die because you can't pay. Every hospital has signs hanging in the emergency rooms that state: "you can't be turned away because you don't have insurance or you can't pay" - its actually against the law for a hospital to turn you away.
I agree that we need the reform..... Like everyone else here. But instead o involving the government in the choices of our treatments and them telling us what we can and can't do...... They should have looked into how to fix the price gouging and creating competition.
We were found on small government and every single year we're going back to the ways in which we left in the first place
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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Productive Member
Simple solution to funding government healthcare would be to regulate food stamps in the same way as the WIC program. Rather than just giving out an amount of money for any food product. Limit it to only certain items such as rice, beans, milk, and such. No name brand items either. The abusers of the system will eventually drop out leaving excess funds to channel into other programs.
I get so sick of standing in line behind people paying for a cart load of soda and other candies and garbage with their food stamps. Hell even at convenience stores things like redbull are covered by EBT cards.
This brings up another question. Food stamps, a program backed by our tax dollars allows this kind of frivolous garbage into the hands of the "needy" then where does government healthcare draw the line on covered items? Will we start seeing every piece of lazy trash walking around with a boob job and Botox paid for on tax money? Are they gonna pay for gastric bypass for every fat shit that's too lazy to get off the couch?
The big problem with this government is that every time they get a little they want a little more, not unlike the people enjoying the free ride they feel they are "entitled" to.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
As far as I know lol boob jobs won't be covered :-p
The government healthcare won't cover name brand treatments unless absolutely necessary. You will get the cheapest effective treatment..... Not the best treatment.
Regarding food stamps...... That shit NEEDS to change. I worked with a guy who cashed in food stamps for real money and then he'd buy booger sugar with it.
They should be given the basics to live..... Period
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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Knowledgeable Member
Cosmetic procedures? Unlikely.
Formulary will most likely be generics.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
This is why we need to delay this..... Everything was passed too fast without enough thought being put into it.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/28/te...th-care-plans/
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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Productive Member
Kinda late to delay something that is law and being implemented as we speak. They not gonna stop it, best thing is hopefully politicians to come will change the things that don't work.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
Obama can delay it...... That's what this shut down is about. He just refuses to..... He won't negotiate. Something as serious as this shoul be ironed out as best as possible before it goes into effect don't you think?
On another note..... My grandmother retired last year. My grandfather is retired also. They now live on a fixed income and both have Medicare advantage. They're rates were just increased because obamacare plan revisions were made.
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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AR-Elite Hall of Famer
How bout this.....
Obamacare: if you can't afford insurance you can apply for obamacare. It's a cheaper bare bones insurance plan that will allow those with pre-existing conditions and those who can't afford insurance to have coverage. Thus leaving the rest of us alone
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
^^^^^Why not everyone pay 2% of there income and the Government spend less on military to fund a health system for all?
There are many ways to do a health system
Senior Member
What about the people who don't work?
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
2% of 100,000 is $2000. Not nearly enough to cover everyone.
Also..... And this is a guess..... The government probably won't make any money off us that way lol
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
Also how is it fair for a guy who makes $10m to pay $200,000 for healthcare when someone else pays $2000 or less?
They'd never get that shit passed here
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
NOT DOING SOURCE CHECKS......
Productive Member
Well euro, I currently hand over 33% of my base income and when my OT kicks into the higher tax bracket I pay more than that for those hours worked. I don't want to pay an additional 2%, but I'd be more than happy to have to pay only the 2%.
I get tired of seeing people collect a tax return for more than they paid in when I'm lucky if I get back 1/4 of what I had to pay.
Senior Member
Then we could take 2% to feed everyone than 2% to house everyone than 2% to cloth everyone. Until we are all the same. Hmmmm this sounds like something any ideas what?
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
I hate taxes too guys. I earn 200k a year and i have to pay 70k and i only get but 11k but thts just the way it is.Ive excepted it. At least getting a few good perks and living in a country with a high standard of living makes the sting of paying taxes a bit better.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
you still can not grasp Communism can you? You would not even pay taxes the state provides you with everything
you need.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Its not fair i pay more in taxes than the average wage in aus but thats just how it is.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
If people are getting more tax back then they paid than that is a problem with your tax laws. That needs to be reformed
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
Ok but if you lived here you would pay only 12k or so for ur healthcare..... And thats with a badass plan with a low deductible if any. Your employer here may actually pay for your healthcare......
To each their own...... Right? Should everyone be the same? What's good for one may not be good for the next. We have the freedom to choose - we aren't just told "this is how it is" - until now actually.
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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AR-Elite Hall of Famer
What this boils down to once again is that healthcare isn't a natural born right. I don't care how you slice it..... How you want to argue it. It was never intended to be guaranteed.
Failure is not and option..... ONLY beyond failure is - Haz
Think beyond yourselves and remember this forum is for educated members to help advise SAFE usage of AAS, not just tell you what you want to hear - Knockout_Power
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"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Well hazard some people are just to dumb to look after them selfs. Thats why governments take control. Thats why rhodesia was the best country in history. White or black if you were not dumb and uneducated you had a voice not to mention the highest standard of living in the world and a sense of Community
They should just close this threas we could arguee this till were blue in the face
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