Is it too much to ask???

[AlphaMike]

What does this statement even mean? "What's your excuse?" Am I too understand that a personal trainer and fitness model who have it as a job to look good should be compared to a random office or store clerk? Why could the message not have been something positive like "You can do it!" or "I believe in you!". This message is just about as intelligent as if my wife would post a picture of her in a lab coat with published articles in Nature magazine with our daughter in front asking everyone else "What's your excuse?". Does that mean everyone who is not a famous scientist is a loser?

~T

A lot of women use pregnancy or motherhood to be overweight, obviously the woman is saying "you have no excuse not to be healthier" and she's damn right

[bass]

What does this statement even mean? "What's your excuse?" Am I too understand that a personal trainer and fitness model who have it as a job to look good should be compared to a random office or store clerk? Why could the message not have been something positive like "You can do it!" or "I believe in you!". This message is just about as intelligent as if my wife would post a picture of her in a lab coat with published articles in Nature magazine with our daughter in front asking everyone else "What's your excuse?". Does that mean everyone who is not a famous scientist is a loser?

~T

no, you are comparing oranges and apples. there is no excuse for being fat unless you have health issues.

[Honkey_Kong]

no, you are comparing oranges and apples. there is no excuse for being fat unless you have health issues.

Even then, fat people with medical issues wouldn't be nearly as fat as they are if they made an honest effort not to be.

[lovbyts]

no, you are comparing oranges and apples. there is no excuse for being fat unless you have health issues.

Even then, fat people with medical issues wouldn't be nearly as fat as they are if they made an honest effort not to be.

AND, most of then if they lost the weight they would not have the medical issues either.

[tarmyg]

Let me start by pointing out the irony in a bunch of guys discussing how women in general should approach health, even as I write this I feel dumb.

A lot of women use pregnancy or motherhood to be overweight

This quote is probably one of the dumber things I have read on these forums in a long time. "Women use pregnancy" I simply can not even say it without laughing. I have to ask, is this a serious or ironic comment? It's common to misinterpret these kind of things so I am just asking!

there is no excuse for being fat unless you have health issues.

And there is of course no reason not to be a brainiac at an elite science institution unless you're stupid, correct?

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

[Honkey_Kong]

AND, most of then if they lost the weight they would not have the medical issues either.

Well I don't know if they wouldn't have the medical issues, but they definitely wouldn't have as many issues. But that's the world we live in. People would rather just take a bunch of pills to band-aid fix their problems instead of tackling the problem at the source. And it's rather sad because these lazy shit-bags really take away from those who do have legit problems.

When this whole obama care shit goes in to effect and they start rationing out the medical care, I think it's more than fair to give priority to those who exercise and eat healthy over those who chose not to.

[thisAngelBites]

Everybody chooses for themselves, how they look, how educated they are, how kind they are to other people. Even if sometimes they do nothing, that is a choice, and it is THEIR choice. They are autonomous agents and if they don't give a shit about how they look, they have no obligation to try and meet your needs as to how you think they should look.

And of course, people have a legal and autonomous right to express their opinions, but if you're defending the giving of unwanted opinions, then I presume you also agree with the women who come up to men like many of those here on this forum in the gym and explain (unsolicited) that women don't like the way very muscular men like them look, or those that approach Electra to inform her that her legs are unacceptable.

If you don't, I can't think of the reason between those types of scenarios that doesn't assume that one sort of person's preferences and views are correct, and the other isn't, and that's why it's okay to criticise people that have made different choices than you, but not okay to criticise people who value the same things you value.

And let me ask: how exactly does someone else's obesity and apathy hurt you?

You know your spoken judgment hurts people, right? I doubt those women want your sympathy - but they probably would prefer people who think fat people are sub-human, disgusting and are not fit to be out in the world should keep their mouths shut.

And seriously, maybe you are willing to consider that your judgment towards these women might be completely misplaced. Are you aware that a long term consequence of rape, molestation and/or incest is morbid obesity? Here are some of the first statistics I grabbed off the web: 20% of all women have had at least one incestuous experience, 1/3 of girls have sexually abused before the age of 18 (the number is 1/6 for boys, but as usual, I don't get the idea that fat men are seen as nearly as revolting as fat women), more than 1/5 of women have been victims of rape. And of course the real numbers are likely to be much higher than this because people estimate sexual crimes are underreported by anywhere from 60%-90%.

I agree you still have the right to be judgmental, but the real question is: should you? And I saw another comment about people's diseases and excuses, and I am sure women becoming obese in response to being violated may be seen as just another excuse. But in the end, I think it's unavoidable to conclude that you simply don't know the pain of other people, and hurting them just because you don't like the way they look, when they have done no harm to you is inhumane.

And I was going to stop, but writing that last sentence made me wonder this, so I am going to ask: why is it so important to be judgmental of these people? Why is being judgmental of people like this worth defending? How does it benefit you such that the hurt they must feel becomes comparatively unimportant?

Angel,
I come from the most obese state in the USA, internet be damned these women need to make themselves presentable for society. I've known some ladies who were self conscious, I've known some who didn't care in the least. Bottom line is if they have the right to be apathetic and obese, I have the right to judgmental and unsympathetic.

[thisAngelBites]

This is an excellent point. Let me give a real-life example: there are some very intelligent people on this board, and there are also a fair amount of people are that downright stupid.

Mind-bogglingly, befuddlingly, fatuously, gormlessly, abject idiots. And I am not even counting the very young guys who come here trying to inject steroids at 16.

Now it's a fact these people are dumb, just as it's a fact that some people are fat. I can blame people for their own stupidity, for not taking matters into their own hands and finding a way (mental exercise, uni, smart drugs, classes, tutors, hard work etc), and deriding them, saying "I have worked hard to become an intelligent person. People who are stupid are clearly too lazy and disgusting and apathetic and should not be allowed to open their dumb fvcking mouths in public, because as an intelligent person who values intelligence, I think they are not presentable."

Perhaps I should start threads complaining that people are responsible for their own nauseating, repugnant lack of intelligence, advocating people get off their lazy arses and into uni so that they can grow a functioning neuron. I can also complain about how frustrated I am that so many people nowadays are dumb and uneducated, and it's a real epidemic.

I value intellect and education. Not everyone else does. Should I exercise my right to my opinion and tell these people what fvckwits they really are? Because up until now I have just been answering their questions and helping where I can. Are they so reprehensible that I have a duty to let them know what I think?

This message is just about as intelligent as if my wife would post a picture of her in a lab coat with published articles in Nature magazine with our daughter in front asking everyone else "What's your excuse?". Does that mean everyone who is not a famous scientist is a loser?

~T

[thisAngelBites]

I think it's notable that what I wrote above looks really nasty, and yet when it's written about fat people it just seems normal.

[lovbyts]

This is an excellent point. Let me give a real-life example: there are some very intelligent people on this board, and there are also a fair amount of people are that downright stupid.

Mind-bogglingly, befuddlingly, fatuously, gormlessly, abject idiots. And I am not even counting the very young guys who come here trying to inject steroids at 16.

Now it's a fact these people are dumb, just as it's a fact that some people are fat. I can blame people for their own stupidity, for not taking matters into their own hands and finding a way (mental exercise, uni, smart drugs, classes, tutors, hard work etc), and deriding them, saying "I have worked hard to become an intelligent person. People who are stupid are clearly too lazy and disgusting and apathetic and should not be allowed to open their dumb fvcking mouths in public, because as an intelligent person who values intelligence, I think they are not presentable."

Perhaps I should start threads complaining that people are responsible for their own nauseating, repugnant lack of intelligence, advocating people get off their lazy arses and into uni so that they can grow a functioning neuron. I can also complain about how frustrated I am that so many people nowadays are dumb and uneducated, and it's a real epidemic.

I value intellect and education. Not everyone else does. Should I exercise my right to my opinion and tell these people what fvckwits they really are? Because up until now I have just been answering their questions and helping where I can. Are they so reprehensible that I have a duty to let them know what I think?

I dont see anything wrong with your analogy and I fit into that category somewhat or at least I did but was smart enough to know I needed to make a change.

I coasted through high school. Worked doing basic labor and low level factory work for several years making OK money. After getting laid off a couple of times I saw the light I needed to go back to school and retrain.

I was initially told by one of the main advisers I should retrain in another factory type job but I disagreed and said I wanted to get into computers and networking. I was told this was not for me and it was best for me to stick to a field I was familiar with. Again I disagreed and was told if I wanted to go into another field I would need to take an assessment test. He was trying to discourage me, I'm not sure why.

Well I took their assessment test and passed it with flying colors. Basically it said I could retrain in any field I wanted. The adviser was surprised and seemed annoyed so I though it was my job to annoy him more and said obviously I could train to do his job if I wanted to lower myself to that point..

We have to many people who just dont want to put any effort into anything be it diet, training, relationships or life in general and always looking for the easy way out or feel entitled without putting in any work.

In other words, I agree with you.

[AlphaMike]

Let me start by pointing out the irony in a bunch of guys discussing how women in general should approach health, even as I write this I feel dumb.


This quote is probably one of the dumber things I have read on these forums in a long time. "Women use pregnancy" I simply can not even say it without laughing. I have to ask, is this a serious or ironic comment? It's common to misinterpret these kind of things so I am just asking!


And there is of course no reason not to be a brainiac at an elite science institution unless you're stupid, correct?

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

You should feel dumb, because all you did was quote other posts and say how dumb they are. Please elaborate on why the comments are dumb and why fat, unhealthy people have are in the right here. If you saw a person walking slowly to the edge of a cliff or would you spout some nonsense about it being their god given right?

[AlphaMike]

Everybody chooses for themselves, how they look, how educated they are, how kind they are to other people. Even if sometimes they do nothing, that is a choice, and it is THEIR choice. They are autonomous agents and if they don't give a shit about how they look, they have no obligation to try and meet your needs as to how you think they should look.

And of course, people have a legal and autonomous right to express their opinions, but if you're defending the giving of unwanted opinions, then I presume you also agree with the women who come up to men like many of those here on this forum in the gym and explain (unsolicited) that women don't like the way very muscular men like them look, or those that approach Electra to inform her that her legs are unacceptable.

If you don't, I can't think of the reason between those types of scenarios that doesn't assume that one sort of person's preferences and views are correct, and the other isn't, and that's why it's okay to criticise people that have made different choices than you, but not okay to criticise people who value the same things you value.

And let me ask: how exactly does someone else's obesity and apathy hurt you?

You know your spoken judgment hurts people, right? I doubt those women want your sympathy - but they probably would prefer people who think fat people are sub-human, disgusting and are not fit to be out in the world should keep their mouths shut.

And seriously, maybe you are willing to consider that your judgment towards these women might be completely misplaced. Are you aware that a long term consequence of rape, molestation and/or incest is morbid obesity? Here are some of the first statistics I grabbed off the web: 20% of all women have had at least one incestuous experience, 1/3 of girls have sexually abused before the age of 18 (the number is 1/6 for boys, but as usual, I don't get the idea that fat men are seen as nearly as revolting as fat women), more than 1/5 of women have been victims of rape. And of course the real numbers are likely to be much higher than this because people estimate sexual crimes are underreported by anywhere from 60%-90%.

I agree you still have the right to be judgmental, but the real question is: should you? And I saw another comment about people's diseases and excuses, and I am sure women becoming obese in response to being violated may be seen as just another excuse. But in the end, I think it's unavoidable to conclude that you simply don't know the pain of other people, and hurting them just because you don't like the way they look, when they have done no harm to you is inhumane.

And I was going to stop, but writing that last sentence made me wonder this, so I am going to ask: why is it so important to be judgmental of these people? Why is being judgmental of people like this worth defending? How does it benefit you such that the hurt they must feel becomes comparatively unimportant?

To my original post,
Maria kang is a fitness spokeswoman, makes a living motivating women to lead healthier lives. Some people need an extra kick in the ass, some people need to be embarrassed in order to be motivated. Anyone that doesn't care about their appearance will care even less about a little Asian woman on facebook

Why I care,
Like I said, I come from the most obese state In the union hands down. These are strangers angel, they're my friends and family that I love and care about and interact with daily. I watch them suffer through a myriad of issues related to their obesity. I'm not standing on the sideline laughing and pointing, I'm trying to help these people turn their lives around and this sometimes requires a little more than just a "come on, you can do it!" mentality.

You brought up some valid points on the abuse angle, but that's a completely different matter(psychological damage, I had long term relationship with a woman that suffered through this)

[thisAngelBites]

These are strangers angel, they're my friends and family that I love and care about and interact with daily. I watch them suffer through a myriad of issues related to their obesity. I'm not standing on the sideline laughing and pointing, I'm trying to help these people turn their lives around and this sometimes requires a little more than just a "come on, you can do it!" mentality.

You brought up some valid points on the abuse angle, but that's a completely different matter(psychological damage, I had long term relationship with a woman that suffered through this)

AlphaMike, I am not just talking to you in this post - I replied to your post directly, but I am addressing what I see as a general problem and in many of the comments, in this post and in many others.

I understand it is painful to see people you love being self destructive, but I have never once seen deeply shaming people or treating them in inhumane ways encourage anyone to change when they otherwise can't or won't, of their own accord. I am SURE that everyone who is fat knows they are fat, and are completely aware that most of society thinks they are a lower form of life than any dog, and ought not be allowed to exist.

I think a lot of those people are suffering for many reasons we don't understand, and I doubt the vitriol and opprobrium from others makes people feel better. You may think it inspires people to change - I don't have any evidence concerning that, and so if you really think you are being helpful, then I can accept that, although I disagree.

And the abuse angle could explain a lot of female obesity. 1 out of 3 women have been sexually abused!! I doubt that is an isolated thing, and I have seen research on this, which I will try to dig up.

[thisAngelBites]

I dont see anything wrong with your analogy and I fit into that category somewhat or at least I did but was smart enough to know I needed to make a change.

I coasted through high school. Worked doing basic labor and low level factory work for several years making OK money. After getting laid off a couple of times I saw the light I needed to go back to school and retrain.

I was initially told by one of the main advisers I should retrain in another factory type job but I disagreed and said I wanted to get into computers and networking. I was told this was not for me and it was best for me to stick to a field I was familiar with. Again I disagreed and was told if I wanted to go into another field I would need to take an assessment test. He was trying to discourage me, I'm not sure why.

Well I took their assessment test and passed it with flying colors. Basically it said I could retrain in any field I wanted. The adviser was surprised and seemed annoyed so I though it was my job to annoy him more and said obviously I could train to do his job if I wanted to lower myself to that point..

We have to many people who just dont want to put any effort into anything be it diet, training, relationships or life in general and always looking for the easy way out or feel entitled without putting in any work.

In other words, I agree with you.

Good for you for not being dissuaded by someone who clearly didn't know what they were talking about, and for giving it back to him. He probably had his own struggles, but I find people are lot more understanding when we talk about what we think, and are honest

I'm sure you would have had a completely different relationship with that guy if he had encouraged you, and admitted that it was all a bit daunting because he was thinking he had gone as far as he could, and could see you surpassing him in time. (or whatever the reason was for treating you that way)

I also agree that life feels better when we work hard at what we do. I think some people have serious obstacles to having what the biohacking community would refer to as optimised lives. Lack of resources, support and love, mental health problems, physical problems - we don't know other people's struggles. I just don't think people should be treated like animals if they make other choices. We are all trying to do our best.

[thisAngelBites]

I hate unhealthy people. They make healthcare costs expensive. Think about it. People eat and live healthy lives, they require less medicine/health care, doctors would charge less because of supply and demand, then when the healthy people do need some health care, it won't cost and arm and a leg.

PLOS Medicine: Lifetime Medical Costs of Obesity: Prevention No Cure for Increasing Health Expenditure

[Times Roman]

I've tried to mellow down my vocalizations against the obese community. True, 80%+ is easily preventable. And they ARE easy targets for ridicule. But i sometimes forget my Libertarian roots. I need to remember that so long as they are not hurting me or mine, then why should it matter to me? Forget the argument that they are driving up health care costs. The incremental cost of Their health conditions are a drop in the bucket compared to prolonging life those last few days in ICU, or in the legal battles people fight with their attorneys.

the only time I am really bothered by a fat person, is when I'm flying economy and they are next to me, not only taking up their entire space in the chair, but a part of mine as well.

[tarmyg]

You should feel dumb, because all you did was quote other posts and say how dumb they are. Please elaborate on why the comments are dumb and why fat, unhealthy people have are in the right here. If you saw a person walking slowly to the edge of a cliff or would you spout some nonsense about it being their god given right?

I have to ask, is this a serious or ironic comment? It's common to misinterpret these kind of things so I am just asking!

There was a question in there, I have highlighted it for you to make sure you do not miss it again.

~T

[Juced_porkchop]

But she's not even talking about people who want to compete. She's talkin about borderline obese people and those who continue to support them.

Sure some people have medical issues that can cause them to be overweight but for fvcks sake they don't have to weigh 300lbs

TOTALLY AGREE!
maria kang did a good thing. we are soo fat as a world now that its "OK" to be obes? Not its not,just like its not healthy to be a junkie or a boozer... we should NOT hat on them, but we should NOT support them for being obese like its ok and healthy.. its NOT!.

[Juced_porkchop]

AlphaMike, I am not just talking to you in this post - I replied to your post directly, but I am addressing what I see as a general problem and in many of the comments, in this post and in many others.

I understand it is painful to see people you love being self destructive, but I have never once seen deeply shaming people or treating them in inhumane ways encourage anyone to change when they otherwise can't or won't, of their own accord. I am SURE that everyone who is fat knows they are fat, and are completely aware that most of society thinks they are a lower form of life than any dog, and ought not be allowed to exist.

I think a lot of those people are suffering for many reasons we don't understand, and I doubt the vitriol and opprobrium from others makes people feel better. You may think it inspires people to change - I don't have any evidence concerning that, and so if you really think you are being helpful, then I can accept that, although I disagree.

And the abuse angle could explain a lot of female obesity. 1 out of 3 women have been sexually abused!! I doubt that is an isolated thing, and I have seen research on this, which I will try to dig up. you pick your poison... be it food or drugs, its up to YOU to be able to deal with stresss or trauma in an effective and/or healthy way, NO excuses....

my mother is pretty fat and i love her, but i would/will not support it. mind you she has a thyroid problem, but medical or not you should get ti taken care of, i dont give a crap if its genetic, medical issue or lazynes. its not healthy and it can be done regardless of our issues. fat is not ok.. do i love my mom? yes of course, but i think its reallt stupid she is not taking her meds for thyroid, just like i think its stupid for sa fat guy to walk into mcdonalds.. no its not easy to then become thin, but if you are not going to put in any effort be it medication you need or a decent diet, then dont complain to the world about being fat or how all the models are thin! do it or STFU already and deal with it, medical or not its lazyness IMO..... i dont think we should abuse fat people or any persons with disability..., but i sure as hell wont be supportive of obese people, regardless the issue is diet or meds...

[Times Roman]

TOTALLY AGREE!
maria kang did a good thing. we are soo fat as a world now that its "OK" to be obes? Not its not,just like its not healthy to be a junkie or a boozer... we should NOT hat on them, but we should NOT support them for being obese like its ok and healthy.. its NOT!.

the world is NOT obese!

most of the countries i travel to, the locals are NOT fat. Obesity is a thing only seen in this world on a large scale in the last generation or so.

If you want to know which countries are obese, take a look at those countries that use GM wheat. Look at those countries that use large amounts of sugar in their processed food. Look at those countries that utilize the fast food industry as a significant source of their caloric intake....

....if you look at THESE countries, I feel you will find a high correlation between these items, and obesity in those countries that have those items.

[AlphaMike]

There was a question in there, I have highlighted it for you to make sure you do not miss it again.

~T

You phrased it rhetorically which usually does not imply wanting an answer, I'm absolutely serious when I say that "WOMEN USE PREGNANCY AND MOTHERHOOD AS AN EXCUSE" There, hope you got it.

The real issue isn't "All women should look like (insert model name)", its that some women absolutely let themselves go to shit without even an attempt at a healthier choice. Not saying a pregnant woman, carrying a child, shouldn't be overweight. She's eating for two and its ludicrous to oblige her to try and maintain a figure during this period. But afterwards, when she's still packing on weight because of poor food choices and sheer apathy, now that's a problem. Unfortunately this phenomena is more prevalent in the US than any other country due to our over privileged lifestyle. Very few of these women have an excuse.

[bass]

Let me start by pointing out the irony in a bunch of guys discussing how women in general should approach health, even as I write this I feel dumb.


This quote is probably one of the dumber things I have read on these forums in a long time. "Women use pregnancy" I simply can not even say it without laughing. I have to ask, is this a serious or ironic comment? It's common to misinterpret these kind of things so I am just asking!


And there is of course no reason not to be a brainiac at an elite science institution unless you're stupid, correct?

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

my wife who gave birth to 10 children (not counting miscarriages) gained about 10 pounds of weight more than her normal weight, and she lost it inside three months after giving birth. she gained about 30 pounds with one pregnancy and she lost all the extra weight within 6 months. I have no idea why the two comments made by me and AlphaMike are not realistic or reasonable! most people choose to be fat, just look at the stupid responses against Maria made by the losers making fun of her, the joke is on them, they choose to eat cookies in bed and look like slobs. get over it.

[< <Samson> >]

Yada yada. . .Good the bad & who cares

But, damn she looks excellent. . . With 3 kids, straight amazing!

[ElectraMaddox]

Yada yada. . .Good the bad & who cares

But, damn she looks excellent. . . With 3 kids, straight amazing!

Samsonnnnn

[Igifuno]

Uh-oh Samson.. You just got the 'Sammsooonnn'! Haha

[ElectraMaddox]

Let me start by pointing out the irony in a bunch of guys discussing how women in general should approach health, even as I write this I feel dumb.


This quote is probably one of the dumber things I have read on these forums in a long time. "Women use pregnancy" I simply can not even say it without laughing. I have to ask, is this a serious or ironic comment? It's common to misinterpret these kind of things so I am just asking!


And there is of course no reason not to be a brainiac at an elite science institution unless you're stupid, correct?

Thanks
~T

---

"I stay mostly by myself, but it's OK, they know me here"
Follow my personal story here: Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com Forums - An honest journey - Blogs

Lmao well said!

[ElectraMaddox]

Uh-oh Samson.. You just got the 'Sammsooonnn'! Haha

He was my first friend on the forum lol

[Igifuno]

let's be friends too.. FR sent