Carreer Crossroad

[Igifuno]

I'm busier than ever at work. Been with my company for 6 years and it's a US top 5 (no.4) within it's industry.

Turned down a VP role last year because I couldn't get the family on board to relocate. So last week I interviewed with another top 5 (no.2), and it went extremely well. In fact, I'm expecting an offer next week.

Will need to negotiate salary and hopefully will be able to negotiate something I'll consider worthwhile since I have so much tenure with my existing company.

The complacent side of me doesn't want to go because I can do my job with my eyes closed, if I'm not traveling I work from home and can go to the gym and eat from my kitchen.

With this new role it will be more corporate, I'll have to go to the office most days, it will be balls to the wall busy, even busier than I am now.

From a career standpoint however, I know this is the right thing to do.

Here's a question for you all, with respect to money, what do you think is an appropriate percentage amount to expect order to make a move from a company where I have so much tenure?

I was thinking I should negotiate somewhere in the neighborhood of 15% above what I'm currently making now with consideration of the fact that I am not unhappy, I will be starting from scratch (speaking about tenure) by making a move.

Thoughts?

[probuild42]

It really depends. So your going from the top 4 company to the top 2 company. If your current company is in growth mode that is exceeding the company you are applying at and you can demonstrate your participation in that growth, then set the bar higher. As my thought would be that you would be in demand to the no2 company.

However if the no2 company is exceeding your current company in growth, not just size. Well then you may not be as much of asset to them.

What are you bringing to the table that they need? I wouldn't think no 2 company would care if your happy where you are currently at. Also, is the new job stable as far keeping you employeed?

But I could be way off as this scenario may not even apply to your field.

[Cuz]

Man I have no clue bro as far as negotiations go but I bet with your experience you will nail it brother! Good luck friend.

[Igifuno]

It really depends. So your going from the top 4 company to the top 2 company. If your current company is in growth mode that is exceeding the company you are applying at and you can demonstrate your participation in that growth, then set the bar higher. As my thought would be that you would be in demand to the no2 company.

However if the no2 company is exceeding your current company in growth, not just size. Well then you may not be as much of asset to them.

What are you bringing to the table that they need? I wouldn't think no 2 company would care if your happy where you are currently at. Also, is the new job stable as far keeping you employeed?

But I could be way off as this scenario may not even apply to your field.

thanks for the thoughts man..

Here's the situation with growth... this is precisely why I'm even considering a change.. my company is growing, but not in my backyard, we're growing in select market. I get it and it makes sense, but it also means a sh*t ton of travel for me. I won't make VP with this company unless I relocate, and apparantly that's not an option right now unless I want a divorce.. lol.

So I'm helping my company grow for sure, but we're not focused on the market in my area, which has been frustrating. The No.2 company is very dense in my local market and has an outstanding reputation and yes, it would be very stable.

I would definitely bring value to the table with the new company, both with growth and with a new style of administration, and they know it. I'd lose all my tenure, but either way, it would be another 5 years before I get another opportunity for a VP role, so I figure I may as well do it with a better company that has more leverage and more presence where I want (or need) to be.

I just need to get them to give me what I need to leave, which I figure is 15%. I'm already at the top end of the typical range for my position in my market, so I think they may want to play a little hardball, which is fine. Understandable because I'm putting myself above the average range. Maybe they'll offer the same base and a larger bonus potential, which is actually cool with me. All I need to do then is perform favorably.

[Igifuno]

Man I have no clue bro as far as negotiations go but I bet with your experience you will nail it brother! Good luck friend.

Thanks brutha chad Damn you're looking chizzled dude. Proud of you. Hey 104 more posts and you need to get yourself a title..

Maybe... The Humble One.. haha.. hope you're well man.

[probuild42]

thanks for the thoughts man..

Here's the situation with growth... this is precisely why I'm even considering a change.. my company is growing, but not in my backyard, we're growing in select market. I get it and it makes sense, but it also means a sh*t ton of travel for me. I won't make VP with this company unless I relocate, and apparantly that's not an option right now unless I want a divorce.. lol.

So I'm helping my company grow for sure, but we're not focused on the market in my area, which has been frustrating. The No.2 company is very dense in my local market and has an outstanding reputation and yes, it would be very stable.

I would definitely bring value to the table with the new company, both with growth and with a new style of administration, and they know it. I'd lose all my tenure, but either way, it would be another 5 years before I get another opportunity for a VP role, so I figure I may as well do it with a better company that has more leverage and more presence where I want (or need) to be.

I just need to get them to give me what I need to leave, which I figure is 15%. I'm already at the top end of the typical range for my position in my market, so I think they may want to play a little hardball, which is fine. Understandable because I'm putting myself above the average range. Maybe they'll offer the same base and a larger bonus potential, which is actually cool with me. All I need to do then is perform favorably.

Sounds like you have a great since of direction with the new company! I like the statement is bold.

One of the incentives I have used with my employees that has worked well was add a percentage of their bonus to their base pay structure. If the business and they achieved are goals. This has provided them continual raises and a vested interest in the success and growth of my business!! win win

Best of luck!

[Igifuno]

Sounds like you have a great since of direction with the new company! I like the statement is bold.

One of the incentives I have used with my employees that has worked well was add a percentage of their bonus to their base pay structure. If the business and they achieved are goals. This has provided them continual raises and a vested interest in the success and growth of my business!! win win

Best of luck!

Thanks bro and I absolutely agree. I don't mind relying on performance at all.

[Cuz]

Lol crack me up man. All is good

[BG]

Tough call, do you think the situation change is worth the 15%> What if you regret not being able to eat and train the way your were and it effects your life. I just changed jobs and it totally screwed up training and Im pissed, wish I didnt make the change. 15% salary increase may have helped me feel better , but I just changed to be in a better environment.

[Hazard]

Tough call, do you think the situation change is worth the 15%> What if you regret not being able to eat and train the way your were and it effects your life. I just changed jobs and it totally screwed up training and Im pissed, wish I didnt make the change. 15% salary increase may have helped me feel better , but I just changed to be in a better environment.

Same here..... I'm making more money than at my last company but I'm suffering long hours and its physically demanding. The gym I suffering

[Igifuno]

Tough call, do you think the situation change is worth the 15%> What if you regret not being able to eat and train the way your were and it effects your life. I just changed jobs and it totally screwed up training and Im pissed, wish I didnt make the change. 15% salary increase may have helped me feel better , but I just changed to be in a better environment.

Well this is a big part of it you just hit on.. I KNOW I will not have the freedom I have now, and so the left side of my brain is telling me to stay, keep my freedom, and just stick with the status quo. The right side of my brain knows this is a sacrifice worth taking becuase of the career opportunities with this company vs. my existing one. From a career standpoint it will be in my best interest to make the move.. I don't doubt that. But I will NOT get to train the way I have been. Which isn't the end of the world, I think. It's not like I'll stop training, I'll just have to adjust to another method of getting the time in. Maybe at lunchtime, maybe after work..

[Igifuno]

Same here..... I'm making more money than at my last company but I'm suffering long hours and its physically demanding. The gym I suffering

You're going to need to switch to endurance training soon with all the running you're doing. Your job makes you do CARDIO!!

[Euroholic]

What ever makes you happy op. money is not everything

[Hazard]

You're going to need to switch to endurance training soon with all the running you're doing. Your job makes you do CARDIO!!

Eff that

Dude you hafta get up here before this new job ales up all ur time lol

[cuzz6119]

If the job is going to be more demanding and fast pace than your current one it seems 15% is a little low ball and that's not taking into account what you are giving up in tenure at your old job where you could have taken a VP position if not for your situational constraints. You should ask for what you think a person with your experience is worth in the market currently. If No. 2 wants you they will give it to you and if they don't want to pay you the money then it seems you have your answer. Your'e the one giving up something not them so it's all on what you think you are worth. If it's best for you as far as career growth is concerned though then it might be worth moving to the new job without a pay raise as you will benefit in the long run. You should do up a cost benefit analysis and see what best for you and your family but regardless you gotta be making them gains in and out of the gym. Good luck bro I'm sure it will work out to your advantage.

[Igifuno]

If the job is going to be more demanding and fast pace than your current one it seems 15% is a little low ball and that's not taking into account what you are giving up in tenure at your old job where you could have taken a VP position if not for your situational constraints. You should ask for what you think a person with your experience is worth in the market currently. If No. 2 wants you they will give it to you and if they don't want to pay you the money then it seems you have your answer. Your'e the one giving up something not them so it's all on what you think you are worth. If it's best for you as far as career growth is concerned though then it might be worth moving to the new job without a pay raise as you will benefit in the long run. You should do up a cost benefit analysis and see what best for you and your family but regardless you gotta be making them gains in and out of the gym. Good luck bro I'm sure it will work out to your'e advantage.

Good stuff right there and no doubt there are some things that are non-monetary that hold high value, like freedom, and being able to be home most days when my kids get home. I do think from a career standpoint, and a long-term standpoint, there is just more opportunity with making a move. Tough to swallow but I'm convinced it will be the best move.

I think 15% is reasonable, I don't want to bid myself out realistically. I've always been pretty good negotiating contracts, but never felt like I was great at negotiating my salary, so I want to be prepared this time and be prepared to fight for what I want. At least this way I'll be whole-hearted and feel good about making the move.. if I make the move.

[Oki-Des]

I personally would go for a 40% raise. If you speak first, that is the number you will be working from. No matter what they are probably going to counter, and if they don't, then you probably did not ask for enough. If you get a 15% raise, but are not as happy with your situation free time and such, you probably will not be happy with only a 15% raise and regret the decision. What you should work on is explaining how you will benefit this new company and help them to a degree that it makes sense. I am the CEO of a medical company, and if someone doesn't ask for something they will not get it. When someone asks for too much, I sometimes do not give it to them, but it is not because I think they are not worth it. I am just not always willing to pay it. I would ask for a 40% increase, and then let them negotiate it down to around 20%. At that point it might be worth the change in positions. You cant job hop often or no one will want you. But since you have shown loyalty for many years, this is your chance to go for it. Good luck!

[Euroholic]

Do you regret not taking that vp igi?

[probuild42]

I personally would go for a 40% raise. If you speak first, that is the number you will be working from. No matter what they are probably going to counter, and if they don't, then you probably did not ask for enough. If you get a 15% raise, but are not as happy with your situation free time and such, you probably will not be happy with only a 15% raise and regret the decision. What you should work on is explaining how you will benefit this new company and help them to a degree that it makes sense. I am the CEO of a medical company, and if someone doesn't ask for something they will not get it. When someone asks for too much, I sometimes do not give it to them, but it is not because I think they are not worth it. I am just not always willing to pay it. I would ask for a 40% increase, and then let them negotiate it down to around 20%. At that point it might be worth the change in positions. You cant job hop often or no one will want you. But since you have shown loyalty for many years, this is your chance to go for it. Good luck!

Im self employeed person that represents a large corp. I hate dealing with corporate. Penny pinching bastards, love to tell me how to spend my money. Try to get a nickel out them and its treachery!

No offense Oki-Des.

He does make a good point. Hold to your values. Come in confident but not arrogant. I agree its a good idea to set the bar high.

[Oki-Des]

No offense taken. I just wanted to offer another opinion. If I were only able to get a 15% raise though, I would probably take the offer to my current location and try to get them to pay me more to keep me. He might be able to get a 10% raise and keep the job he can do easily with more freedom. Sometimes people value you more when they know there is a chance they might leave. I have an employee that I paid $175K last year. The year before he made $110K, but we had a talk and I ended up offering a significant increase because I wanted to keep him. He got more than a 62% increase in salary, so I just wanted to let him know it is possible.

[Igifuno]

Do you regret not taking that vp igi?

Yeah I was bummed out a bit, but we had just moved the year before and my oldest daughter just adjusted to her first year in high school and the previous move was hard enough on her.. So they were just not on board with it. So maybe not so much regret, but I was pretty disappointed.

[Euroholic]

Yea i suppose thats what you have to do with a family i guess.

[Igifuno]

Oki I appreciate the thoughts and experience. It had me redoing some numbers this evening actually.

There shouldn't be any harm done with starting high, so I think I will set my sights on a higher percentage. This is a big company and I know they know what the typical range is for my position. 40% is a long shot, but perhaps 20-25% would be a good starting point for me without them telling me to have a nice day. Lol.

I'm excited about the possible change. Truth be told, I haven't really been engaged with my job for a long while. It's easy, but not much fun. With this company, as opposed to my current one, I'll be set up to be a player for a VP role with any mid sized company in my market within a couple years. It's got a great reputation and is very **********, which is attractive. Lot more work, but better company, better counterparts, better opportunity for future growth and advancement and, hopefully, better money.

[Igifuno]

I wonder why it stars out the word in*ovative

[lovbyts]

I'm thinking for most people a 20% bump would be very nice as long as you are already up in the 100K +

My job I would need a good 25%+ to make a change.

Dont get to comfortable though, it's easy to stay in one place but most companies like to see someone who makes changes every 7 - 10 years to be value added. Someone who has been the same place for 20 years most places look at it as a negative anymore, not loyal like they use to.

[almostgone]

I'm busier than ever at work. Been with my company for 6 years and it's a US top 5 (no.4) within it's industry.

Turned down a VP role last year because I couldn't get the family on board to relocate. So last week I interviewed with another top 5 (no.2), and it went extremely well. In fact, I'm expecting an offer next week.

Will need to negotiate salary and hopefully will be able to negotiate something I'll consider worthwhile since I have so much tenure with my existing company.

The complacent side of me doesn't want to go because I can do my job with my eyes closed, if I'm not traveling I work from home and can go to the gym and eat from my kitchen.

With this new role it will be more corporate, I'll have to go to the office most days, it will be balls to the wall busy, even busier than I am now.

From a career standpoint however, I know this is the right thing to do.

Here's a question for you all, with respect to money, what do you think is an appropriate percentage amount to expect order to make a move from a company where I have so much tenure?

I was thinking I should negotiate somewhere in the neighborhood of 15% above what I'm currently making now with consideration of the fact that I am not unhappy, I will be starting from scratch (speaking about tenure) by making a move.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you've researched the prospective employer a good bit, Igi. Can you extrapolate a rough idea of their pay scale? If so, roughly split the difference between the upper third of their pay scale and 10% over your current salary. If they offer a salary within that range, ask to take a week to consider, and then you and Mrs. Igi need to have a serious "think" session. Ask yourselves:
1) What do we think is best for the family?
2) What will we gain or lose by accepting/rejecting the job offer?
3) What adjustments can WE make to allow you(Igi) to train at the level you desire/are satisfied with?

More money is great, but if you and the family can't enjoy the $$, then the $$ aren't really worth it, are they??
Don't worry man. I have a high level of confidence that you and Mrs. Igi will find the answer that is best for you and the Igi clan.

****Edit**** I know you've already thought on this, but don't forget to include your benefits...especially profit/goal sharing, 401(k) matching, HSA contributions, company provided insurance(s), optional life insurances.......any and all forms of compensation that you receive.

[Igifuno]

I'm thinking for most people a 20% bump would be very nice as long as you are already up in the 100K + My job I would need a good 25%+ to make a change. Dont get to comfortable though, it's easy to stay in one place but most companies like to see someone who makes changes every 7 - 10 years to be value added. Someone who has been the same place for 20 years most places look at it as a negative anymore, not loyal like they use to.

Very true.. Even 3-5 years now lots of professionals are getting their feelers out there. I'm with mine 6 now.. So not a job hopper. Really never have been. Also agree 20% would be great, I honestly think 15% is attainable, but will start higher and see what happens.

[almostgone]

I wonder why it stars out the word in*ovative

Old research company....

[Igifuno]

Sounds like you've researched the prospective employer a good bit, Igi. Can you extrapolate a rough idea of their pay scale? If so, roughly split the difference between the upper third of their pay scale and 10% over your current salary. If they offer a salary within that range, ask to take a week to consider, and then you and Mrs. Igi need to have a serious "think" session. Ask yourselves: 1) What do we think is best for the family? 2) What will we gain or lose by accepting/rejecting the job offer? 3) What adjustments can WE make to allow you(Igi) to train at the level you desire/are satisfied with? More money is great, but if you and the family can't enjoy the $$, then the $$ aren't really worth it, are they?? Don't worry man. I have a high level of confidence that you and Mrs. Igi will find the answer that is best for you and the Igi clan.

Thanks AG, all valuable and sound input right there. I'm familiar with the pay scale and I'm putting myself right over it with a 15% increase. Not to say it's not realistic, but they'll have a ceiling.

Me and Mrs. Igi have talked a lot and crunched some numbers tonight as well. Check this out, I'm figuring over $7k additional in gas annually with this new gig. That's a hell of a factor right?

Very curious to what their bonus criteria looks like. Kind of anxious now . Good thing I'll be up to my eyeballs next week and won't have time to think about it. Off to Nashville tomorrow..

[Igifuno]

****Edit**** I know you've already thought on this, but don't forget to include your benefits...especially profit/goal sharing, 401(k) matching, HSA contributions, company provided insurance(s), optional life insurances.......any and all forms of compensation that you receive.

Absolutely. This is huge. If I told you what I pay for family benefits now you'd sh*t a pickle.

[almostgone]

Thanks AG, all valuable and sound input right there. I'm familiar with the pay scale and I'm putting myself right over it with a 15% increase. Not to say it's not realistic, but they'll have a ceiling.

Me and Mrs. Igi have talked a lot and crunched some numbers tonight as well. Check this out, I'm figuring over $7k additional in gas annually with this new gig. That's a hell of a factor right?

Very curious to what their bonus criteria looks like. Kind of anxious now . Good thing I'll be up to my eyeballs next week and won't have time to think about it. Off to Nashville tomorrow..

Y'all are doing it right then! Fuel costs, child care, any expenses/loss of per diem....you know the drill.
Not sure what the pollen count is like in Nashville, but it's brutal here in SC right now. If you have allergies, might want to bring some antihistamines.

[almostgone]

Absolutely. This is huge. If I told you what I pay for family benefits now you'd sh*t a pickle.

Too late, buddy. My employer just had annual enrollment for our insurance...consumer driven health plan???? Pffft. I believe I could drive the d@mn thing a little cheaper/more economical.

[kronik420]

More money more problems

[lovbyts]

Too late, buddy. My employer just had annual enrollment for our insurance...consumer driven health plan???? Pffft. I believe I could drive the d@mn thing a little cheaper/more economical.

Welcome to Obamacare

[almostgone]

Welcome to Obamacare

Embarrassing, isn't it? I have friends that are small business owners (mainly small machine shops/fabrication shops) and they share the same sentiment as the parent companies of my employer....basically "WTF?"

[almostgone]

I'm sure you've thought about this Igi, but check out the prospective employer regarding their 401k plan.... a rollover from your current plan into their plan is often the better option.

[lovbyts]

Embarrassing, isn't it? I have friends that are small business owners (mainly small machine shops/fabrication shops) and they share the same sentiment as the parent companies of my employer....basically "WTF?"

They are doing everything they can to eliminate the small business owners all together. Obamacare, higher minimum wage and we wont even start with all the regulations. No breaks or help for the small business owner anymore.

[tcw]

Well this is a big part of it you just hit on.. I KNOW I will not have the freedom I have now, and so the left side of my brain is telling me to stay, keep my freedom, and just stick with the status quo. The right side of my brain knows this is a sacrifice worth taking becuase of the career opportunities with this company vs. my existing one. From a career standpoint it will be in my best interest to make the move.. I don't doubt that. But I will NOT get to train the way I have been. Which isn't the end of the world, I think. It's not like I'll stop training, I'll just have to adjust to another method of getting the time in. Maybe at lunchtime, maybe after work..

1. There is Risk involved in every change
2. Your negotiation strength comes from your a)options and b)ability to walk away

With the above in mind, 15% raise is not that much in the scheme of things. You are risking the known for the unknown. Could be better...could be worse.

1. Are there other opportunities in the same area in the same line of work?
2. Who are the Main Players in your Corp that you will be working with?
3. What are their personality and management styles and how do you fit in?
4. What do the SO and kids think of the move and how will their life's be affected?

Lots of things to consider....

IN THE END...life is full of Risks. You just have to do your best to control the one's you can control....and give the rest to (you know who).

~T

[DCI]

With the added mileage could you wangle a company car? I love mine saves me a fortune in travelling the country etc and having free fuel and the greatness of sheer abandonment when driving the car and parking it in rough places etc.

I think the lads are right with you low balling it at 15% try 30 or 40 and you will probably end up where you wanna be. If they want you bad enough they will pay

[ghettoboyd]

good luck igi whatever you decide...I know you will do great...my company just told me Friday that they are eliminating my position company wide...there obligated to find my something within the company so I still have a job I guess?...ill be ok though im ready for a change as well...getting the resume updated and going to shop myself around...