Confronting a family member with a drug problem/addiction

hello all. well, my little brother was hooked on opiates and then went to suboxone to try to get off the opiates. low and behold, seems he abused the suboxone and now is on a spiral downward in life. seems he has been going to different family members to borrow money to pay for his addiction and pay day loans. he has numerous things that just keep catching up with him and it is just one lie after another. he just landed a great job with a great company, and hoping he won't lose that with this terrible addiction. i was aware he had a small problem, but did not know how bad it was until i started speaking with family members. everyone is ready to kick him out and have nothing to do with him. he is a really sweet, caring kid, that has a bad addiction. my question is, how do i go about confronting him to admit he has a problem? i know and realize that he has to make the want to change, just trying to figure out ways in which to do so. he gets really defensive quickly so trying not to push him away any further. when speaking to him on the phone, you would never know he has a problem and everything is always ok. i am getting info on outpatient programs but trying to figure out how to present the information to him. just really sad

I am sure a lot of people will chime in but I have been in a similar situation with my brother and his mental health issues. At the end of the day they need to want to get help. If he is borrowing money and has become a dead beat you need to realize that sweet caring kid is hidden and addiction has now taken over. I would think the first step is asking him if he wants help and try getting everyone to stop enabling his addiction and then speak to counselors on your best steps of action.


Good luck. It will be a tough road.

Dude..... I went thru this with my ex. Same scenario..... She tried outpatient treatments.... They didnt work. A lot of the outpatient programs have people that are court ordered to be there. My ex went there to sober up and left with a phd in other drugs.

All I can say is..... Take an aggressive position. The whole family needs to get behind him and refuse to help him anymore until he seeks treatment. My ex's family had to cut her off and kick her out - she spent one night on the street homeless and she decided to comply. She went to an in treatment facility and it took her 18 months.

If you need any advice..... Pm me. It's a serious issue and I've been through it. It sucks man.....

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Originally Posted by Hazard

Dude..... I went thru this with my ex. Same scenario..... She tried outpatient treatments.... They didnt work. A lot of the outpatient programs have people that are court ordered to be there. My ex went there to sober up and left with a phd in other drugs.

All I can say is..... Take an aggressive position. The whole family needs to get behind him and refuse to help him anymore until he seeks treatment. My ex's family had to cut her off and kick her out - she spent one night on the street homeless and she decided to comply. She went to an in treatment facility and it took her 18 months.

If you need any advice..... Pm me. It's a serious issue and I've been through it. It sucks man.....

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Not that its any of my business but it she finally clean?

So sorry to read this. Show him your love bc it can make a difference when he decides to get help. Unfortunately most ppl with addictions have to hit rock bottom first.

I have been in that position with my brother and trust me he won't change until he is ready.
It will be rough but I hope everything works out for the best.

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Originally Posted by Rwy

Not that its any of my business but it she finally clean?

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Yup..... She gets an apartment at a cheaper rate, was set up with a full time job with benefits that pays well, has a brand new car...... And doesn't pay one ounce of child support

I'm going to echo what Haz said, take an aggressive position.

I dealt with this for years as a young adult with my father.
Things didn't start getting better until I grew some balls about the situation and took a hard line stance.

They need to hit a bottom. They can hit a bottom on their own or you can help create it - it doesn't matter.
But until they hit a bottom and decide they want to change, things don't get better unfortunately.

Stay strong

sounds like intervention time.

my bro' is a druggy (with a family to boot)

many years ago, he was really going off the deep end with the meth, and so me and my pops went and confiscated his guns and ammo. the dude had almost 20k rounds for his AK. He was friggin pissed. But it needed to be done. He's also bi-polar, and a nut.

Don't know what to tell you mate.

Some can kick, many cannot.

I've kicked mine. It was tough.

All I can say is that in this day and age, many families have one in the family.

Good luck!
---Roman

Agree with all who have posted. You need to take a very hard stance and do not budge, the rest of your family MUST do the same thing. HE will need to bottom out before things will get better. He will guilt you, get mad at you, beg you, etc, but you cant give in. At that point he will either get better or not, but atleast you all will not continue to enable him to live how he is currently. Just understand that IF he gets better, he will thank you for standing strong and helping to force him to a position of wanting to change.

^agree. Addiction is a powerful, self feeding demon. The demon will feed on anything to perpetuate its existence. The demon will fight to stay alive. The demon will sacrifice its host to protect itself.

Don't fvck with the demon!

Dont become a co dependent. Dont ever give him money for any reason. Dont give him a place to stay or any help except a ride to a clinic where he will spend at least 3 months getting clean.

Ive been there also 1st hand with my 1st wife. I did everything humanly possible and in the end it made no difference. Ljke everyone said he won't change until he hits rock bottom and drags everyone down with him.

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Originally Posted by Hazard

Yup..... She gets an apartment at a cheaper rate, was set up with a full time job with benefits that pays well, has a brand new car...... And doesn't pay one ounce of child support

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Who pays for that?

IMO suboxone is some nasty stuff. It does help some to off the opiates but I have seen people abuse it and use it to help with getting dope sick. They will take opiates for awhile and then switch back to suboxone for awhile. I doctor has to get special training to write suboxone. I have seen that people sell it just like they do opiates. Sad, very sad.

I don't think that out pt will help at all. Only a 90 day in house treatment with a detox center is really going to help. Then he needs to be in an out pt program and possibly in a half way house after the 90 days to get keep clean. Some need a lot more help than others. I can say that there is not an easy way to help or confront this. You just need to do it.

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Originally Posted by Rwy

Who pays for that?

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Her inpatient treatment program was funded by the state. Then she got assistance through the program. They found her an apartment which is cheap and in a really nice area of nj. It's not like a hood apartment..... It's in a wealthy area. They helped her get a good job and they deduct money from her paycheck to partially pay for the apartment. I'm assuming the state covers the rest.

What I've learned in 30 years.....

If you are a divorced mother..... With custody..... You can bleed your ex husband dry.

I you are a divorced father..... With custody..... Your ex wife isn't subject to he same standards.

I love my daughter to death and do everything I can for her. My ex has bought her 3 packs of diapers, 2 packs of wipes, and a few outfits in the 2 1/2 years she's been born. Yet she posts pictures and shit all over Facebook about how much she loves her and how she's a great mother. I'm fed up

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Originally Posted by lovbyts

Dont become a co dependent. Dont ever give him money for any reason. Dont give him a place to stay or any help except a ride to a clinic where he will spend at least 3 months getting clean.

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x2. Don't enable him and don't allow your immediate family to do so either. Any monetary help you provide him will only be aiding in his eventual death.

The reality is your Brother is unemployable in his present condition & will only lose this job at some point anyway. Therefore, don’t allow him to use his current job as a reason to refuse in-patient treatment. If anything, he must use his employer's health insurance to enter treatment now while he still has a job. You must have some type of family intervention and totally cut him off if he refuses help.

Also, please do not listen to those who choose to bash treatment and/or recovery programs. You’ll often find these sour words principally come from those who have failed at it or know someone that failed at it. Truth is that program(s) of recovery do work & never fail anyone, it is people that fail the program.

Would also suggest that you attend a local Al-Anon meeting in your area. There will be many people there that are in your same situation that can offer you true guidance. Good luck...

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Originally Posted by Hazard

Her inpatient treatment program was funded by the state. Then she got assistance through the program. They found her an apartment which is cheap and in a really nice area of nj. It's not like a hood apartment..... It's in a wealthy area. They helped her get a good job and they deduct money from her paycheck to partially pay for the apartment. I'm assuming the state covers the rest.

What I've learned in 30 years.....

If you are a divorced mother..... With custody..... You can bleed your ex husband dry.

I you are a divorced father..... With custody..... Your ex wife isn't subject to he same standards.

I love my daughter to death and do everything I can for her. My ex has bought her 3 packs of diapers, 2 packs of wipes, and a few outfits in the 2 1/2 years she's been born. Yet she posts pictures and shit all over Facebook about how much she loves her and how she's a great mother. I'm fed up

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Why does none of this surprise me? Oh yeah because I went through a lot of the same except my daughter ended up getting $400 a month from SSI death benifits.

thanks all who commented. yes, he is pretty much at rock bottom as far as finances go. i am getting the family all on the same page, so that is not an issue any longer. we kind of went thru this with my step brother, he was addicted to meth and served some time. so far, he is clean. the family have all refused him money now, so he will have to fight it on his own. he just landed a great job with shell, so he has went thru hair tests and all. he has a script for the suboxone so he won't get fired for it showing up on a drug screen. as all of you have mentioned and I am with you all on this, he has to admit he has a problem. i live a state away, so i was unaware that all of this was going on until my mom broke down. i am wanting to take an aggressive approach with him but i do not want to get into a yelling match with him. i know he will make up the same damn excuse about his back and his knee pain (doctor prescribed pain killers ) and that is why he went to suboxone but is abusing it as well. thank you all for responding, means a lot!

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Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00

thanks all who commented. yes, he is pretty much at rock bottom as far as finances go. i am getting the family all on the same page, so that is not an issue any longer. we kind of went thru this with my step brother, he was addicted to meth and served some time. so far, he is clean. the family have all refused him money now, so he will have to fight it on his own. he just landed a great job with shell, so he has went thru hair tests and all. he has a script for the suboxone so he won't get fired for it showing up on a drug screen. as all of you have mentioned and I am with you all on this, he has to admit he has a problem. i live a state away, so i was unaware that all of this was going on until my mom broke down. i am wanting to take an aggressive approach with him but i do not want to get into a yelling match with him. i know he will make up the same damn excuse about his back and his knee pain (doctor prescribed pain killers ) and that is why he went to suboxone but is abusing it as well. thank you all for responding, means a lot!

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If he is getting prescribed Suboxone, I'd say that he is already aware and has admitted he has a problem, otherwise he wouldn't be getting prescribed Suboxone. The bigger issue is the behavior, not the drugs, they are a symptom of behavior problems. I want to add really quickly, that in bringing this up to him you should not be dictating anything to him when it comes to recovery, this is HIS recovery not yours, so the modality of therapy needs to be his choice, otherwise it will fail. He needs to overcome the physical dependency before you can start talking about changing his behavior. So you have some information going into it, with opiate/opoid dependency (addiction is NOT a medical term, the proper word is dependency, as described in the new DSM-VI), the first thing he needs to tackle is 'acute withdrawal' this is usually a 7-10 day period where the dependent person feels intense physical discomfort covering a wide range of symptoms, most people need to be medically supervised for withdrawal, it is not dangerous, but the pain and discomfort is usually so great that most people cannot bare it. There are a host of medications which are great for this. A 7-day detox would be the best course of action.

I'm going to completely disagree with the aforementioned posters. 12-step based recovery programs, of which 95% of 30&90 day drug treatment programs, and most half-way houses for that matter are, have an ABYSMAL success rate hovering in the <10% range. The average drug dependent individual will go through (7) 30 day inpatient treatments before achieving abstinence. That's not to say that it doesn't work for some people, it does, it usually takes several tries and failures however. Hence why its said that relapse is part of recovery. I really cant emphasize how much I disagree with the philosophy of drug free recovery aka 12-step/NA based recovery. They have a track record which includes encouraging people with mental illness such as bi-polar and schizophrenia to abstain from their medication because they aren't truly 'clean'. It makes my blood boil... You should understand that the majority of the 'Therapists' as they call themselves within these facilities, are NOT licensed therapists by the state, meaning they do not have a PhD in Psychology or Clinical Psychology. I can say that I've never met a properly credentialed 'Therapist' in addiction medicine. It varies by state, but in this state, all thats needed to get a certificate to do therapy in a drug rehab, is a short online class, and 3,000 hours of clinical time. These people are not part of mainstream medicine, that includes the entire apparatus, the rehab facilities and their employees.

The entire aim of treating dependency is to modify behaviors which have become entrenched over a long period of time. This can be done in more than one way, 12-step recovery is one way to do it, but it usually requires people to have a belief in God, and can be very 'cult' like. There are a number of therapies such as Vivitrol (Naltrexone) which is a shot which blocks the opoid receptor for a 30-day period. Obviously Suboxone is another option. Notice I didn't say any of these are 'good' options, empirically at least. There is no 'good' way to treat opoid dependency, there is just trying the different therapies and finding what works for that individual. All of them should be explored with an objective mindset, after the acute withdrawal period is over. From there, users will experience PAWS (Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) which can mimmick acute withdrawal symptoms anywhere from 1-18 months after initial detoxification, although the symptoms are usually quite protracted. Suboxone and other 'opoid maintenance/replacement' therapies are what we refer to as 'harm reduction'. I.E.- he is not hustling people to get his Suboxone, he is not at risk of law enforcement consequences, and is not engaging in other high-risk behaviors associated with drug dependence, it is a far lesser evil. Replacement therapy coupled with counseling(by a licensed counselor holding an MS,MSW, or PhD) is recommended to sort through all of the accompany issues of dependency, and a support network.


I think its great that you have everyone on board not to give him money. However, I would caution against 'cutting him off' or trying to have him kicked out of wherever he is living. The family can be stern, but SUPPORTIVE, from a position of love. Doing what some members have suggested will only alienate your brother, it may drive him further into dependency and abuse, and ultimately lead to more dangerous behaviors and a fatality. If he feels like he has nothing left, he may say '**** it', and decide to go full force into dependency. It sounds to me from your description he does know he has a problem, hence why hes prescribed Suboxone, he perhaps just needs to be guided back on track.

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Originally Posted by Times Roman

^agree. Addiction is a powerful, self feeding demon. The demon will feed on anything to perpetuate its existence. The demon will fight to stay alive. The demon will sacrifice its host to protect itself.

Don't fvck with the demon!

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Yup I've been going threw this for a while my self.

Give me couple hours,I will pm you.

I am a addict, and can def help you out. I have been clean of opiates for years , suboxone helped.

When I get to office I will pm you buddy.
Stay in the fight, most that take opiates hate them , they are nasty shit

Get ready for the roller coaster ride. Everyone has already offered very good advice so I will simply reiterate the high points.

1) You cant force him to get better
2) Do not enable his addiction (no $, no food, no place to stay...nothing)
3) As Godfather mentioned, a detox period is crucial. I always recommend 7-10 days in jail before entering treatment
4) In patient NOT out patient
5) Do not let his addiction be your addiction

I deal with addicts and their families almost everyday. There is no one size fits all approach so do not be afraid to fail and try again.

Thanks all again for the support and information.

godfather, you are correct in a lot of what you say. my family kind of kept me out of the loop on some things so i am now taking initiative to get my brother back. after speaking with family members yesterday, it seems that he had definitely got himself into a lot financial trouble and now looking back, he was prob using the drugs to cope with his problems instead of fixing them, which in turn, got him into more debt. my mom is taking him to a bankruptcy attorney on friday so hoping that will help out with some of this. my family is very supportive so i know we can overcome this, just need him to want to get better. the detox is something that he needs to do, and he needs to choose how to do so. i have some friends who will be sending me information about programs in his area, i want him to have as many options as possible so he can choose his path to getting clean.

Recovering heroin addict here. First off there are a ton of great things people have said here, but the tough news that you need to hear is that if he does not want to get clean there is no amount of talking from you or your family that will make him do so. He needs to choose his own path and unfortunately for us addicts it is not always a good one. It is one that can lead to jail, institutions and unfortunately death. My path led me to the streets, prison, back out to the streets then finally to a rehab. Rehab was a great place to finally see how far this shit took me. I went from popping pills to snorting pills to injecting pills to finally shooting heroin. I hustled non stop to get what I needed on a daily basis.

The only thing you and your family can do is tell him how you feel, tell him you are going to stop helping and supporting him. If you don't stop you are only helping the problem. It is much easier to say this kind of stuff rather than actually do it, but if he won't stop you need to stay strong as a family and still not help him (monetarily speaking). You can be there for him to talk and to tell him you love him, but you all should no longer be his doormat. A bankruptcy lawyer will help relieve some of his "monetary stress" but it will not be enough to make him stop using drugs, it more than likely runs much deeper than that financial things. Getting him out of debt will free up a larger percentage of his income to go towards drugs.

I can't stress enough... You said "my family is very supportive so i know we can overcome this, just need him to want to get better"- what if he does not want to get better? What if he does not want to stop? Why would he want to stop when you guys are taking him to bankruptcy lawyers? He has a good job now, he will be able to afford more. Addicts never think they have a problem, I thought sticking a needle in my arm and hustling every day was normal when I was out there doing my thing. I didn't think I had a problem.

- Research in-patient programs, be wary of suboxone and methadone treatments, these things often do not have the best success rates.
- You can not force your brother to do anything he does not want to do
- Sometimes addicts NEED to hit rock bottom in order to see how much they lost and how much more they can lose
- If you do not cut him off he is always going to find a way to scam you (its what we do for a living. Addicts are masters at lying)
- If he gets in to a rehab make sure he starts going to some kind of 12 step meeting
- Drug addicts are addicts of all drugs, he should not be drinking if/when he gets out of rehab

PM me or reply here if you have any other questions.

I put my family through hell, but I would still be putting them through hell had they not shown that "tough love" for me and cut me off and kicked my ass out of the house.

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Originally Posted by ElDude

- Research in-patient programs, be wary of suboxone and methadone treatments, these things often do not have the best success rates.
- You can not force your brother to do anything he does not want to do
- Sometimes addicts NEED to hit rock bottom in order to see how much they lost and how much more they can lose
- If you do not cut him off he is always going to find a way to scam you (its what we do for a living. Addicts are masters at lying)
- If he gets in to a rehab make sure he starts going to some kind of 12 step meeting
- Drug addicts are addicts of all drugs, he should not be drinking if/when he gets out of rehab
.

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Thats the kind of dogma I'm talking about that comes out of the NA/12-steppers. 12-step based recoveries&rehabs sport about a 6-10% recovery rate depending on who you ask. So while that program may have worked for YOU, it may not work for someone else. Substance dependency is a highly complex individualized illness, and what works for one person may not work for another, which is why I always encourage people to preface that this is what worked for you, and not make a statement sort of concluding that you have 'the answer.' The problem I have with 12-step recovery is that they do a HUGE disservice to people when they essentially tell them that if they can't commit to 12-steps, they're going to 'die', and make it seem like there is no possible way to treat substance dependence outside of 12-steps. This is wholly inaccurate and saying things like that in and of itself may lead to deaths, by people failing to seek other treatment modalities because they've been told there is something 'constitutionally' wrong with them because they can't commit a faith based recovery program.

Second, the notion of being 'cross-addicted' is a term that is only used in the 'recovery community,' and is not an accepted medical definition or theory. Not drinking alcohol may be something YOU have to do, but it is not necessarily something which other people, who's conditions are highly individual and who's patient history and diagnosis you are completely unfamiliar with. With all of that being said, if his brother can muster it, NA certainly would provide him with an excellent support network, and if he can commit to faith based recover, even better. But NA should be presented as just one of many options for treating his illness, not the last stop at the end of the line.

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Originally Posted by thegodfather

Thats the kind of dogma I'm talking about that comes out of the NA/12-steppers. 12-step based recoveries&rehabs sport about a 6-10% recovery rate depending on who you ask. So while that program may have worked for YOU, it may not work for someone else. Substance dependency is a highly complex individualized illness, and what works for one person may not work for another, which is why I always encourage people to preface that this is what worked for you, and not make a statement sort of concluding that you have 'the answer.' The problem I have with 12-step recovery is that they do a HUGE disservice to people when they essentially tell them that if they can't commit to 12-steps, they're going to 'die', and make it seem like there is no possible way to treat substance dependence outside of 12-steps. This is wholly inaccurate and saying things like that in and of itself may lead to deaths, by people failing to seek other treatment modalities because they've been told there is something 'constitutionally' wrong with them because they can't commit a faith based recovery program.

Second, the notion of being 'cross-addicted' is a term that is only used in the 'recovery community,' and is not an accepted medical definition or theory. Not drinking alcohol may be something YOU have to do, but it is not necessarily something which other people, who's conditions are highly individual and who's patient history and diagnosis you are completely unfamiliar with. With all of that being said, if his brother can muster it, NA certainly would provide him with an excellent support network, and if he can commit to faith based recover, even better. But NA should be presented as just one of many options for treating his illness, not the last stop at the end of the line.

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12 step programs alone are shit. My ex had an intensive in-patient treatment which included the 12 steps but she had 0 alone time. She was supervised. She was in an all female facility and eventually they helped her deal with her issues.

I can't get too in depth at the moment but he has to be willing to get help above all. If he isn't...... Nothing will work

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Originally Posted by Hazard

12 step programs alone are shit. My ex had an intensive in-patient treatment which included the 12 steps but she had 0 alone time. She was supervised. She was in an all female facility and eventually they helped her deal with her issues.

I can't get too in depth at the moment but he has to be willing to get help above all. If he isn't...... Nothing will work

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We've talked at length about your ex on the phone, no need, but glad to hear she's doing well...I'm sure your daughter will want her in her life at some point in the future...

Well,


I have done damn near every drug known to man. Addicted - I would say no


My main thing is I personally wanted to try everything. But, I stop everything and never continue. The only thing that got me hooked the most is aas(Shit, I even stopped smoking cigarettes after 12 years). Which gets powered by me thinking it's better to get juiced, look good and not be actually high on anything.


Being on meds/drugs that alter our state is a waste in 99.9% of all cases.


But, how to get someone off - Well, the fear of reality does it to some. My close acquaintance just went through a very rough ordeal. This made him quit m*** on a dime. I never thought it could happen, he full on changed over night. This is a guy who's been on for almost a decade & continuously without missing a day almost 2 years. < < So it is possible, I didn't think it was


How old is he?


I have lost a few friends to over dose when I was very young & one very recently. Personally I have been lucky


I believe the way to get someone into sobriety is getting ready mentally for real life. It's an escape, the stronger the substance the more it causes an alternate state of mind. For myself, the key is understanding that being high is not reality & it will end. No matter what or how hard you try it not to.


Some live for the high, that's just as bad. But, quite a bit different. It's the functional abuser - The whole neighborhood where I grew up was full of tweekers. When I was young I had no clue wtf this meant or what it was. Until one day it was just presented, from that moment on my mind changed. I seen people as they really are(at least many of the one I knew). These people were the parents of damn near every kid I knew from school.


US is full of functioning addicts. Me being one of them, I traded in 98% of what I did to semi safely do aas. Why not? It seems to be quite common actually. I don't even drink often any more at all - At least I look better & I am about 2x as strong as I was 10 years ago. I cut my cycling to about half from last year, there's no need for a ton of gear. It's more of a waist, just like all the old schoolers say. I didn't listen, tried it out for myself - the only thing that increases is the side effects & the cost.

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Originally Posted by thegodfather

Thats the kind of dogma I'm talking about that comes out of the NA/12-steppers. 12-step based recoveries&rehabs sport about a 6-10% recovery rate depending on who you ask. So while that program may have worked for YOU, it may not work for someone else. Substance dependency is a highly complex individualized illness, and what works for one person may not work for another, which is why I always encourage people to preface that this is what worked for you, and not make a statement sort of concluding that you have 'the answer.' The problem I have with 12-step recovery is that they do a HUGE disservice to people when they essentially tell them that if they can't commit to 12-steps, they're going to 'die', and make it seem like there is no possible way to treat substance dependence outside of 12-steps. This is wholly inaccurate and saying things like that in and of itself may lead to deaths, by people failing to seek other treatment modalities because they've been told there is something 'constitutionally' wrong with them because they can't commit a faith based recovery program.

Second, the notion of being 'cross-addicted' is a term that is only used in the 'recovery community,' and is not an accepted medical definition or theory. Not drinking alcohol may be something YOU have to do, but it is not necessarily something which other people, who's conditions are highly individual and who's patient history and diagnosis you are completely unfamiliar with. With all of that being said, if his brother can muster it, NA certainly would provide him with an excellent support network, and if he can commit to faith based recover, even better. But NA should be presented as just one of many options for treating his illness, not the last stop at the end of the line.

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Its pretty funny that for one simple bullet point that I made out of my entire response you choose to single that out and write a couple paragraphs putting down 12-step programs and furthermore assuming I am a "12-stepper" as you so nicely call "them". Interesting. Just to clear things up... When I first entered rehab I was forced to go to 12-step meetings, and in the beginning when I had nothing and nowhere to go they helped me out A LOT as it did with every person I was in rehab with. We got in to those meetings man because that is what they pushed on you. When you are basically alone, withdrawling from drugs/alcohol/what the **** ever- you really want to be around people who have gone through the same shit as you.

A 6-10% recovery rate for first timers may be more accurate and something I can agree with, hell it may be even less. Addiction is a hell of a disease. I had 12 other people with me in my rehab. Since we all got out 4 of those people have died, the most recent one being 2.5 months ago. 5 are back on the streets and myself and 2 other guys in there relapsed plenty of times but have at least 12 months under our belt now. I will be celebrating 2 years in August. Whatever the percentage is though I can tell you it is a lot lower for those who go in to rehab and do nothing after they get out.

So i go to my first NA meeting which, if you have never been to a rehab is basically all they offer in the form of help at that time, oh wait, I do think Passages Malibu teaches some other shit, I saw that in their commercials. Darn, couldn't afford that place, it looked real nice too. Anywho in 99% of rehabs you go to they offer AA/NA meetings, so the majority of people tend to latch on to it while they are there. I in no way, shape or form think that 12-step programs are "the answer" nor would I be ignorant enough to say so. There are people out there who have gotten clean without 12-step groups. Simply: NA/AA/12-step meetings helped me and help the majority of people latch on to something while they are at rehab, because the vast majority of places do NOT teach other coping mechanisms. But apparently you know more than me since "NA should be presented as just one of many options for treating his illness" Other places do, as you can see in commercials, and there are psychiatrists out there who offer other types of help (they also push NA/AA/12 step programs, I know because I have been to quite a few). I don't know if you have been through the black hole that is addiction thegodfather or if you have had a family member go through it or if you are just another person with opinions on what they read on the internet, hear and see on TV and are all of a sudden a professional on the subject.

As far as cross addiction. In my case I was never a big drinker but I loved my fuc k i n g drugs. So when I got out of rehab I decided it would be OK for me to drink! Well pretty soon I was back to the needle. As soon as I started to drink I really would just give fewer and fewer f uc k s if I used until it finally happened. So I can only tell you what has happened to me and what I have heard from countless other people about drinking. It could be that some people are different and can tolerate it! If they can I say to them have fun and go for it. Alcohol has been proven to lower inhibitions, when someone is fresh out of rehab they need all the inhibitions they can get so they don't go back out. Sorry i brought my "recovery community" lingo in here, but seriously, alcohol can be risky and all I meant it as was a warning to keep your eyes up.

All in all I stand by what I said with a slight revision. If he gets in to a rehab and they don't offer all of these other wonderful things thegodfather speaks of, see if he is going to the 12-step meeting offered at the rehab. It is a great way for a person who is fresh in there to latch on to SOMETHING and get some much needed hope in an otherwise very, very difficult and dark time. It certainly may not be the life-long answer for him, but it will at least give him strength and a community when he needs it most in those very delicate first 30 days of in-patient rehab and more importantly those very first few days/weeks when he gets out of rehab, when he can utilize other ways of helping himself if 12-step meetings are not his thing. I don't go to 12-step meetings anymore as I found they weren't for me. I try to live a peaceful life and do good by others... These were core things I took from those 12-step meetings.

Alcohol lowers inhibitions, not just MY inhibitions, everyones. Thats a fact. When inhibitions get lowered you start thinking about doing things you wouldn't normally do, this is also a fact about the vast majority of people once they start drinking. I cannot drink alcohol because when I do my mind starts to wander and it starts to wander in to that drug territory, I start telling myself that I can do it... just once... I can keep it under control, ha. If I take drugs they control me, I am powerless against heroin and alcohol does not make the fight any easier... So why risk it.

I am a recovering oxycodone addict. In addiction the addict can't fathom weeks/months of advance planning, especially if it involves the pain of cleaning up. So if you can get him to accept a detox program that is a huge first step and should be the only focus lovingly communicated to him. His spirit should return during this week or so period, and if there are no other mental issues, his life will become a day to day learning process on how to live sober(thru whatever course of action that is decided, the point is too much future talk is a negative to an addict getting ready to withdraw.)
As for Suboxone, he will not sleep for sometime (1-3days) and feel anxious/nervous for 5-8 days when coming off of it. Detox is perfect for this time, it will hurt and he will want to leave, but if he can get through this period his "human spirit" to live should kick in and give him a chance.
Telling someone they can't do something FOREVER, For the rest of their lives, is way too much to process for anyone, let alone an addict. If he can get thru detox and start to believe he can make it thru the day without getting high, he has a fighting chance.
The addiction has become his life, because his brain has change. To survive it thinks it needs his drug of choice. Eating, sleeping, mating, what regular folks think about, are all out the window when addiction is in full effect. It is hard for loved ones to understand, especially when you have a personal connection and fond memories/respect. Just believe, that person is still there, he is just drowning in addiction and needs to start the process of recovery if he wants to have a chance of living his dreams. He may have hurt some people with his lies/stealing or whatever, but they need to understand that the choice to act on his addiction were his, but the choice to be obsessed with his drug is not his, his brain is acting on its own and he can't control it. Suboxone is intended to help with that, but too much is negative in my opinion. Used a few days to help bridge the gap between full blown using and sobriety I could see that being helpfull. But a week or more of using it(especially 8mg or more a day) and the withdrawals will be on par with other drugs.
So good luck, look into help for yourself to understand what he is going thru, and if at all possible try to keep it positive and simple in the beginning.
G

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Originally Posted by ElDude

Alcohol lowers inhibitions, not just MY inhibitions, everyones. Thats a fact. When inhibitions get lowered you start thinking about doing things you wouldn't normally do, this is also a fact about the vast majority of people once they start drinking. I cannot drink alcohol because when I do my mind starts to wander and it starts to wander in to that drug territory, I start telling myself that I can do it... just once... I can keep it under control, ha. If I take drugs they control me, I am powerless against heroin and alcohol does not make the fight any easier... So why risk it.

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I agree with this completely


Since what happened to my buud, I ask him shit all the time. He said that exact thing - He can not drink, it makes him think back to jumping back on. Without drinking he feels much more strong willed & looks forward to a real sober life. He's the best example of a fully functioning addict I can think of. He worked for me for a while a few years back - I never even knew he was on anything.


But, some are quite different - and can not fully live and function. Just go complete junky & live for the dope(whatever it maybe). At this point I have no clue how to pull them out. Some start so early in life that they don't even know true adult sobriety.

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Originally Posted by ElDude

But apparently you know more than me since "NA should be presented as just one of many options for treating his illness" Other places do, as you can see in commercials, and there are psychiatrists out there who offer other types of help (they also push NA/AA/12 step programs, I know because I have been to quite a few). I don't know if you have been through the black hole that is addiction thegodfather or if you have had a family member go through it or if you are just another person with opinions on what they read on the internet, hear and see on TV and are all of a sudden a professional on the subject.

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This is the problem that I see, when I make a recommendation to keep an open mind and explore every modality of treatment, you become defensive about NA/12-steps. I never bashed the program itself per say, but rather SOME of the people involved in it, and SOME of the organizations who advocate for it. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who works in healthcare, and is disheartened by some of the harm that's caused to patients by the mantra that the majority of rehabs operate under. When I say that NA should be presented as just one of many options for treatment, I am speaking from a position of personal experience with the patients, and doing thorough research of peer reviewed publications, which study dependency and the latest treatments and research behind its pathology. I've also had the chance to read journals articles put out by an organization which cheerleads for the rehab/12-step community, and find a lot of the information contained in there to be unscientific and going against a plethora of solid scientific theory and proven research which shows some of the things that they advocate for to be false. I think that the rehabs reliance on 12-steps and ONLY presenting that treatment to patients, as you yourself said was your own personal experience (and the experience of many other patients) does real harm, not harm that I speculate about, but harm that I see in patients who have told me that they were never told there was an alternative to 12-steps when it did not suit them.

So, there's no reason to be defensive, I wanted the OP to know that there are a multitude of treatments available, and if his brother is unable to stay drug free for any significant amount of time, harm reduction methods such as Vivitrol or Suboxone are a valid option which he should not be ashamed of exploring. That is a fact, and patients on Suboxone programs are running at about 85%, meaning that those on the program do not relapse and they abstain from other opiates. The goal is to stabilize them, get them into some form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and give them a number of years 'clean' from their DOC/street drugs, and allow them to develop new behaviors and skills to live a drug free life. Congratulations on your upcoming 2 years, that's quite an achievement which most people would not understand.

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Originally Posted by < >

Well,I have done damn near every drug known to man. Addicted - I would say noMy main thing is I personally wanted to try everything. But, I stop everything and never continue. The only thing that got me hooked the most is aas(Shit, I even stopped smoking cigarettes after 12 years). Which gets powered by me thinking it's better to get juiced, look good and not be actually high on anything.Being on meds/drugs that alter our state is a waste in 99.9% of all cases.But, how to get someone off - Well, the fear of reality does it to some. My close acquaintance just went through a very rough ordeal. This made him quit m*** on a dime. I never thought it could happen, he full on changed over night. This is a guy who's been on for almost a decade & continuously without missing a day almost 2 years. < < So it is possible, I didn't think it wasHow old is he?I have lost a few friends to over dose when I was very young & one very recently. Personally I have been lucky I believe the way to get someone into sobriety is getting ready mentally for real life. It's an escape, the stronger the substance the more it causes an alternate state of mind. For myself, the key is understanding that being high is not reality & it will end. No matter what or how hard you try it not to. Some live for the high, that's just as bad. But, quite a bit different. It's the functional abuser - The whole neighborhood where I grew up was full of tweekers. When I was young I had no clue wtf this meant or what it was. Until one day it was just presented, from that moment on my mind changed. I seen people as they really are(at least many of the one I knew). These people were the parents of damn near every kid I knew from school. US is full of functioning addicts. Me being one of them, I traded in 98% of what I did to semi safely do aas. Why not? It seems to be quite common actually. I don't even drink often any more at all - At least I look better & I am about 2x as strong as I was 10 years ago. I cut my cycling to about half from last year, there's no need for a ton of gear. It's more of a waist, just like all the old schoolers say. I didn't listen, tried it out for myself - the only thing that increases is the side effects & the cost.

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my brother is 27. and like you, i have lost friends to OD, don't want to lose my brother that way.

Just spoke with my mom again and she said that he has admitted to not being able to get off of the meds, so maybe it is not as bad as I first thought. Now just need to see what programs are in the area, present them to him, and let him choose his treatment route.

He's lucky to have you bro...

Jail is a great place to detox :)

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Originally Posted by Lunk1

Jail is a great place to detox :)

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what, American jails dont have drugs?

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